Just got 3 10" slotted paper wheels and I'm finishing up my grinder/USB stand setup. How many paper wheels do you have for honing and do you use honing coolant for each? Thanks in advance.
I have two buffers. First one has a rock hard felt wheel with green rouge, and a .5 micron diamond paste papaer wheel. Second buffer has 5 and 2.5 micron diamonds on two paper wheels.
What is honing coolant for a paper wheel?
Quote from: RickKrung on July 29, 2022, 04:21:44 PM
What is honing coolant for a paper wheel?
From what I recall, Wootz advises the coolant be used on .5u and coarser paper wheels. I have no idea what the coolant stick really is though.
I've used Slick-Stick from Woodworkers' Wonders, which I suspect is similar to the honing coolant Wootz was selling. That's just a guess, though. I can't say I've noticed a big difference with and without it, but I don't have any objective way to measure the difference. I wonder if anyone knows where Wootz got those temperature lacquers he used in his heat testing?
Quote from: BeSharp on July 29, 2022, 04:21:36 PM
I have two buffers. First one has a rock hard felt wheel with green rouge, and a .5 micron diamond paste papaer wheel. Second buffer has 5 and 2.5 micron diamonds on two paper wheels.
Which buffers are you using? I have a 1/2 speed, 1hp grinder that I'm going to use, but I'm looking at buffers as well. I just don't know what's a good one to be looking at.
Quote from: darita on July 29, 2022, 04:24:46 PM
Quote from: RickKrung on July 29, 2022, 04:21:44 PM
What is honing coolant for a paper wheel?
From what I recall, Wootz advises the coolant be used on .5u and coarser paper wheels. I have no idea what the coolant stick really is though.
Coolant sticks for paper wheels does not make sense to me. I get there are such things for grinding wheels, at least for the CBN wheels I got from Woodturners Wonders, but that is more for cleaning and avoiding clogging. I also have some rubberized cleaning sticks for sanding media but that is a different matter. I'd think adding any other material to the surface of a paper wheel would hinder the abrasive. I also agree it is more a matter of heat control through pressure and intervals. Part of why I don't use paper wheels, even though I bought some and a half speed grinder - just didn't care for the speed and process.
Quote from: RickKrung on July 30, 2022, 03:42:17 PM
Part of why I don't use paper wheels, even though I bought some and a half speed grinder - just didn't care for the speed and process.
I'm coming to the same conclusion myself. Even on the 1/2 speed grinder, the paper wheels generate a lot of heat. Wootz thought not enough to affect the temper of the blade, but I'm not entirely convinced. Steel isn't a great heat conductor, and measuring temperature at the bevel shoulder isn't the same thing as measuring temperature at the absolute apex.
Lately I've gone back to using my Ken Onion with leather belts and various compounds, which generates considerably less heat and, at least for me, produces equal or better results. I'm quite liking Tormek's compound on the leather belt, followed by chromium oxide + .25 micron CBN.
The problem that most don't get with the paper wheels, is that they're designed to be run on a regular grinder/buffer, not one running half speed. Especially the honing wheel... the slots basically create a "fan" effect that helps cool. It also works better/smoother. Put one on a variable speed grinder, and you can see & feel the difference.
Uh oh, I hear Ken coming... ;)
p.s. Never used honing coolant on a honing wheel. I watched the KG video,,, the conclusion I got was that it doesn't do much, but doesn't hurt anything. (So, why bother?) ???
I've got to believe that the problems I have with paper wheels would only be worse with a full speed grinder, i.e, at twice the rpm you'd have even more heat and vibration.
I can feel the fan effect of the slotted wheels on my half-speed grinder ... but does it actually cool the blade? Isn't air cooling mostly dependent on the cooling effect of evaporation? And since steel doesn't sweat...? On the other hand, there are air-cooled engines, which don't sweat.
All I can really say is that blades definitely get hotter on the paper wheels than they do on leather belts. It's also a heck of a lot easier to swap out belts on the KO blade grinder than it is to swap wheels on a grinder.
Quote from: darita on July 29, 2022, 11:27:56 PM
Quote from: BeSharp on July 29, 2022, 04:21:36 PM
I have two buffers. First one has a rock hard felt wheel with green rouge, and a .5 micron diamond paste papaer wheel. Second buffer has 5 and 2.5 micron diamonds on two paper wheels.
Which buffers are you using? I have a 1/2 speed, 1hp grinder that I'm going to use, but I'm looking at buffers as well. I just don't know what's a good one to be looking at.
Rikon 1/2 speed 8" buffers. Tried three brands and chose Rikon for low runout. I use 8" paper wheels to lower the speed and to fit it into a Tanos XXL 337 systainer. With 10" wheels it will be too high to fit.
BeSharp, thanks. I was looking at that polisher. Good to know it has low runout and looks like it fits the 1 1/4" wide wheels, right?
Yes it should.
Can I use CalCapp for USB adjustments?
Quote from: darita on August 01, 2022, 11:48:13 PM
Can I use CalCapp for USB adjustments?
Yes... that's what the app does... (I'm wondering if there's more to the question?) It sets the location of the USB based on the angle you want to sharpen at (along with the other parameters: wheel size, etc.).
Quote from: 3D Anvil on July 31, 2022, 04:56:33 PM
I've got to believe that the problems I have with paper wheels would only be worse with a full speed grinder, i.e, at twice the rpm you'd have even more heat and vibration.
...
I knew you wouldn't believe me. ;)
We sometimes think that just because we can use a product with a Tormek that it was designed for Tormek use. Two examples of this are paper wheels and CBN wheels. Both are designed for high speed dry grinders. The applied wax/carborundum with paper wheels needs the speed (heat) of a full speed grinder to melt properly. The earlier CBN youtubes produced by vendors usually show full speed dry grinders sharpening hss turning tools.
The first time I saw paper wheels being used with a Tormek was when Steve Bottorff demonstrated using them for both fine grinding and honing. Steve controlled heat by experience. The fine grind paper wheel saved him time by eliminating the need to use the stone grader.
I am not saying that these things cannot also be used with the Tormek. Just remember that it is an "also" use.
Ken
Quote from: 3D Anvil on July 29, 2022, 05:49:35 PMI wonder if anyone knows where Wootz got those temperature lacquers he used in his heat testing?
They are the Red Orange Grey and Yellow, Temperature Indicating Liquid Paint from "mscdirect"
Quote from: ArtOfSharp on February 13, 2023, 09:32:22 PMQuote from: 3D Anvil on July 29, 2022, 05:49:35 PMI wonder if anyone knows where Wootz got those temperature lacquers he used in his heat testing?
They are the Red Orange Grey and Yellow, Temperature Indicating Liquid Paint from "mscdirect"
Thanks!