Just got the centering jig and it won't slide past the threaded rod on the universal support, regardless of which side the black adjusting knob is on. It's really close to clearing and I'm wondering if my universal support weld joint is just too large?
Also, the instructions for the KJ-45 mention that either of the two stops on the KJ-45 can be used and the arrows in the illustration point to those two stops. However, the arrows point to the top sides (when in use) of those stops and I'm not sure if the top or bottom part of the stops is to be used against the universal support. A subsequent photo shows the bottom side of the upper stop being used which is contrary to the illustration that points to the to side of the universal support. Any clarification?
just figured out how to post multiple photos....
I just got mine and sharpened two pocket knives with blades up to 4 inches long and maybe an inch and a quarter from edge to back. I used the two smaller stops thinking that was what you used. Of course I failed to read the directions.
Have you watched the video?
Demonstrating Tormek's Centering Knife Jigs KJ-45 & KJ-140 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFHqQg5wZEg)
I've watched the video twice now and they managed to not show how the jig works when turned over so that the knob is on the downward side! They did show an example of sharpening a meat cleaver but didn't turn the jig over once they showed their example of the knob being on top.
I did get one tip by watching and that was to perhaps mount my knife so that the handle is on the outside of the unit when the knob is on the bottom. That gives a little more distance between the knob and the universal support. But the top stop on the jig is what they primarily used in their examples.
But is sure seems to me that they didn't think this through thoroughly, much like their original jig that wasn't self-centering to begin with, and their small knife holder that doesn't properly center a Swiss-army knife, and the center handle which in no way allows the user to lift the unit without it tilting dramatically to the heavier side. I'm beginning to see that other solutions are more appropriate for small knifes. But I do have some really sharp chisels :)
Kemrot,
By figuring out how to post multiple photos, you are ahead of me. :(
Regarding the small knife holder and Swiss Army knives, I have encountered the same frustration. After more study, I have concluded that the small knife holder was really designed for small carving knives with substantial wooden handles. All of the Tormek photos show it being used this way. It "sort of works" with small handled pocket knives and paring knives, but not ideally. Before the small knife holder (SVM-00), the recommended method was freehand. Resting the knife on the support bar close to the grinding wheel (horizontal position) would give more control, as would using a homemade small platform (designed by several forum members years ago).
I don't know why the SVM-45 was not originally designed to be self centering. Nor do I know when the SVM-45 was first introduced. I do know that there was a redesign in 2002. I do not believe that self centering was such an issue years ago.
I did a home research project to determine if jig honing was possible with the T4 and also if it was possible to sharpen longer knives with the T4. I learned that with either the T4 or the T8 the ten inch (250mm) Victorinox chef's knife could be sharpened by switching to the longer US-430 support bar. (The US-430 also has longer legs, making it possible to sharpen cleavers.)
I encountered several easily correctible constraints with the SVM-45 in horizontal position for honing. The big plastic locking knobs did not clear the support bar. Substituting socket set screws ("grub screws") for the jig screw and the two horizontal sleeve screws provided an inexpensive, easy fix for this. Like you, I had trouble with the jig not quite clearing the weld. A few strokes with a file solved this problem. The final constraint was a small part of the shaft bumping into the support bar. (This is easy to spot.) A minute with my belt grinder took care of this, although I could have done it with my Tormek or a file. This in no way effected the functioning of the jig.
I could have done the same fix by using my FVB. I was just curious to see if this method would work; it does work. It also cost less than $5 US, a small fraction of the cost of the FVB. Granted, the FVB is more convenient.
Does your clearance problem mean a design problem with the KJ-45? I would say not. This problem does not occur while using the traditional Tormek knife sharpening technique of grinding using the vertical sleeves and freehand honing. I am not saying that freehand honing is better or worse than jig honing. I do like having the choice.
Incidentally, Tormek is planning a second, more advanced online class with the KJ jigs. They wisely wanted to wait until the new jigs were in service to better answer questions from more advanced users. I will make sure the forum is kept advised about this online class.
Ken
Ken- yeah, I saw the product photo also where it shows the small carving knife being used in the small knife holder. When I bought my Tormek I just assumed that it could precisely sharpen small knives. Between the knife jig itself and the non-centered nature of a multi-function knife, there are just too many problems with that.
I have hand-held a few small knives for sharpening with adequate results, but that makes for a very expensive piece of machinery for just 'typical' sharpening results.
Thank you for the advice of replacing the plastic knob with a small socket screw. I should have thought of that. For now, at least, I'll remember to have the body of the knife on the outside of the Tormek when it's installed in the jig with the locking knob underneath.
I wish there was a larger water tray for my T4 so that the excess water can be caught when using the unit. I have a silicone pad underneath to catch the water, but the whole process is messier than it should be. I do think I will at least add my own magnet in the water tray to catch the metal that is ground off.
You can also just pry the black plastic part off the screw (it's just pressed on, at least on the SVM-45)...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5032.0;attach=6538)
Quote from: Ken S on June 12, 2022, 05:02:06 AM
By figuring out how to post multiple photos, you are ahead of me. :(
...
Underneath where you choose a file, just click on "(more attachments)"...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5032.0;attach=6540)
Thanks, CB. I will do that in the future.
Ken
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 12, 2022, 01:40:06 PM
You can also just pry the black plastic part off the screw (it's just pressed on, at least on the SVM-45)...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5032.0;attach=6538)
Thanks for the tip. I'll definitely be trying that.
This is probably my first post in this forum so hi everyone. I often sharpen away from the stone and have encountered the problem of the jig thumbscrew catching the USB at various times using both the standard and extended USB. My solution with both the new and old jigs is, as Ken has already suggested, to use a stainless grub screw whenever needed and this has always worked for me. Sorry for the HUGE image...... I didn't realise it would come out that big !
Welcome to the active forum, Andy. I hope you will continue to post.
Whenever I encounter a problem and solution like using grub screws, I like to ask two questions:
1) Is this possible?
2) Is this practical?
In this case, my experiment with grub screws (plus filing down the weld and grinding the back of the jig convinced me that this solution is definitely possible. I would answer the practicality question with "it depends". The FVB is definitely more convenient and faster to use. It can also be easily be used in conjunction with the various setting aps. The FVB is also considerably more expensive. I admit that having both grub screws and a FVB, whenever I want to hone a knife using the jig, I reach for my FVB. For those on a very tight budget and who rarely require jig knife honing, grub screws will do the job few a very few dollars.
Ken
My question is why is the new device called KJ? The first thing that comes to mind is Ken Jig? ;)
Quote from: Arthur on June 13, 2022, 02:32:00 PM
My question is why is the new device called KJ? The first thing that comes to mind is Ken Jig? ;)
Knife Jig (in case you weren't kidding).... :D
KJ (Knife jig) is part of a naming shift at Tormek. The new trend is based on English. The traditional three letter designations like "SWM" were German from early days at Tormek when their market was largely German. My German is now half a century rusty. SVM (Schleif Vorrichtung Messer or grinding jig for knives).
Incidentally, I originally called the kenjig the KS-150 (knife setting 150 mm). Tormek, thinking the name sounded too much like a Tormek product, requested that I change the name, hence kenjig.
Ken
For what it's worth, I got my KJ-45 today and, with all of two knives tested, I've not had any problem with the jig hitting the USB. I sharpened one knife using the standard bar rest, and then I sharpened another one using the front of the forward rest as a pin/pivot ... which worked really well! For clarity, when I say "front" and "forward," I mean the parts of the jig farther away from me and closer to the blade. Both knives were sharpened at 15° per side.
I imagine I'll continue to use the old jig most of the time because being able to set the projection distance is a real time saver. But it's nice to have the new jig for blades with thicker spines and/or deep bellies. I'm sure I'll play with the convexing feature at some point, too.
I too received my KJ-45 yesterday... and while I think it will work for most knives using the front stop as a "pin pivot", I did notice some of the same restrictions that Kemrot did. The knob can hit the support upright if the front stop is used (even without pivoting), :-\ and will need to be replaced (or at least the black cover removed). There is also a limit to how far the knife can be rotated... it will actually hit the clamp area. The rear stop is too restricted to pivot, and using the back side of the front stop is also (it will hit the back stop). But, I think the front stop will work for most knives, although I'd do a "dry run" with a knife to ensure you can sharpen it before turning on the machine. Of course, if you're not into pivoting, none of this matters, (except for the knob hitting the upright), but definitely not designed with "pivot" in mind. :o
Looks like my new PD will be in the 110-120 range. ;)
Other than that I think it's decent... probably be my "go to" clamp going forward. The clamp itself seems solid and works well, and I actually like the feel of it vs. the SVM jig. Time will tell! :)
Edit: Here's an example... a cleaver where the front stop should be used, set at 20°...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5032.0;attach=6544)
... the knob can hit the upright. You can position the knife to avoid this, but something to be aware of.
I've done a couple more knives now and I have run into the knob issue. So yeah, dry run is imperative with this one.
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 14, 2022, 03:54:11 PM
... the knob can hit the upright. You can position the knife to avoid this, but something to be aware of.
Hey cb,
Do you have any idea what the max length of a knife would be, in order to allow repositioning ? To know if this is a theoretical issue more than a practical one ?
I also understand you need a combination of both significant blade height and high dps, which would mainly mean cleavers only...
Quote from: tgbto on June 15, 2022, 08:17:45 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 14, 2022, 03:54:11 PM
... the knob can hit the upright. You can position the knife to avoid this, but something to be aware of.
Hey cb,
Do you have any idea what the max length of a knife would be, in order to allow repositioning ? To know if this is a theoretical issue more than a practical one ?
I also understand you need a combination of both significant blade height and high dps, which would mainly mean cleavers only...
I do not know the max length, but I don't see it as a "theoretical issue". The picture I believe shows the intended use of the front stop.
For the record, I originally named the kenjig the KS-150 (Knife Setting tool, 150 mm long). Tormek asked me to rename it, to prevent confusion from people thinking it was an official Tormek product. It is not, and has never been a part of Tormek's lineup. In my humble opinion, the kenjig is more efficient than the traditional Tormek knife setting methods. (That's just my opinion; others may disagree.)
The jig designations beginning with SV are German, and have been around since the very early days when the majority of Tormek's business came from Germany. I don't remember the meanings of all the letters. M is for Messer, the German word for knife. Is this a surprise? (It surprised me, too.) I have not confirmed this; however, I believe KJ and some of the recent new jig designations like DBS are more English language oriented.
Ken
I am experiencing another personal problem with the 2 knobs:
I have the blade set on the back knob. I started with that too, but after changing a stone, I accidentally started using the front knob.
A moment of inattention, has caused me to have to do this sharpening phase all over again. That takes time and steel......
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 12, 2022, 01:40:06 PM
You can also just pry the black plastic part off the screw (it's just pressed on, at least on the SVM-45)...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5032.0;attach=6538)
CB,
I think there are better ways than prying off the plastic cap. When I was experimenting with other fasteners for the SVM-45 and the horizontal sleeves, the final choice was M6 socket set screws (grub screws). Along the way, I tried using button cap screws. I actually liked these better than the grub screws. The "button" on the top of the screw provided an easier start for threading. Both types required using a metric Allen wrench, not a big deal, although the trend today leans toward toolless. I needed to grind off a little length of the screws. I happened to use my belt grinder, although I could have used my Tormek or a file. I chose the grub screws for the write up because they required no grinding.
Looking at the locking screw on the KJ-45, my eye was fooled. It looked like a smaller thread than the M6 of the SVM-45 and the sleeves. Upon close examination, it is the same M6 thread as the other screws. Only the plastic tip is smaller. That means that the same M6 x 1 (1mm thread pitch or distance between threads) x 10 (10mm screw length) socket set (grub) screw will fit either jig.
The screw of the KJ-45 jig protrudes much less than the big screw on the SVM-45. I have not tried this. I am curious to know if it would allow the SVM jig to clear the usb. If so, that would let the SVM to work "toolless".
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on October 11, 2022, 05:19:25 AM
...
I think there are better ways than prying off the plastic cap.
...
I agree(d)!
Quote from: cbwx34 on October 09, 2022, 03:31:36 PM
Replacing the knob with a "grub screw" that Ken suggests (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,5032.msg36274.html#msg36274)... may be the better option.
:)
A good solution could be convincing the Tormek Team to prevent such issues before selling products or fixing it after sales.
I strongly believe that Tormek is aware of the issue and just have other priorities.