Tormek just announced an online class covering the new KJ self centering knife jigs. The class will be this coming Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 9:30 Eastern time (US). This is the online class we have been waiting for explaining the new jigs in detail. We will finally have the answers to our long anticipated self centering knife jigs. The live class, like the others, will also be included in the Tormek Sharpening Solutions youtube channel.
Don't miss it!
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on April 04, 2022, 11:16:34 PM
Tormek just announced an online class covering the new KJ self centering knife jigs. The class will be this coming Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 9:30 Eastern time (US). This is the online class we have been waiting for explaining the new jigs in detail. We will finally have the answers to our long anticipated self centering knife jigs. The live class, like the others, will also be included in the Tormek Sharpening Solutions youtube channel.
Don't miss it!
Ken
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFHqQg5wZEg
Thanks, CB
Ken
This will be my next TORMEK tool purchase... :). I read somewhere the new knife holder won't be available until June though
Quote from: TireguyfromMA on April 06, 2022, 04:22:11 AM
This will be my next TORMEK tool purchase... :). I read somewhere the new knife holder won't be available until June though
It
was my most recent Tormek tool purchase. In other words: It is already available in some online shops in Sweden.
I won't be able to attend.
They should cover it but if not please ask. Specifically what knives require this jig?
John,
I plan to watch the live class. I will pay attention and ask your question if it is not covered.
My guess (hopefully fairly accurate) is that the new jigs were designed for the self centering feature, probably to end the years of users like us grumbling. As such, I would say the new jigs were designed for knives thicker than 2.5mm, the optimized thickness for the SVM jigs. On the thin end of the scale, the self centering feature would also true up very thin blades.
At first, I was puzzled that Tormek would produce a new self centering long jig. The long jigs are designed for knives which are long AND thin, like fillet knives. Long and substantial knives are sharpened on the regular jigs. I suspect the majority of knives will continue to be sharpened with the 45 jigs, old or new. I will not be discarding my collection (of seven or eight) SVM jigs, although I suspect the new KJ-45 will see most of my use.
I will keep you posted. Incidentally, the class, like all the classes, will be on the Tormek youtube channel.
Ken
Ken, for my needs I think multiple SVM -35 jigs would be a real benefit. I could set up a customers knives all at once adjust the support bars and not stop until finished honing the last one. I do not see many thick knives except for survival knives that I occasionally repair. These are sharpened at a fairly wide angle and see a tough life.
I suspect I will only buy one of these jigs for very thick knives : like @john.jcb , I have multiple SVM-45s in order to have an identical projection distance (145mm in my case as I seldom do really short blades) and not reset USB height during sharpening.
The fact that these new jigs have a fixed projection length makes that impossible unless you sharpen knives with very similar blade heights, in which case there is some wiggle room with how deep you clamp the knife. There is therefore much less interest in having several of them.
As for the long jig, I suspect it is there mainly for manufacturing purposes : the handles are identical, so they will be able to manufacture only new handles from now on, and occasionnally fit them with the long jig. There is obviously no long and flexible knife that has a thick spine...
John,
I like your practical, "from the trenches" thinking.
Your thoughts resemble those of the guy who developed the kenjig :) The standardized set up allows maximum time efficiency without lessening quality.
Based on the limited info I have been able to stitch together, the new KJ-45 may offer uther useful features in addition to self centering. Tormek has briefly mentioned edge convexing. The two position end stop looks intriguing. (It reminds me of the handle of the Roman pugio, the dagger carried by soldiers and also used to assassinate Julius Caesar. The pugio is discussed in the link I recently posted here.) We will soon know more about these jigs.
I have seen an online dealer listing posted from Sweden, where the jigs are already available for sale. The price looks to be around $45 US. This surprised me; I always thought the anticipated self centering jig would be considerably more expensive. We will all know more before noon today. My gut feeling is that even for those of us like you and me who already use multiple SVM jigs, purchasing at least one KJ-45 standard jig offers good potential benefits for not much money.
The new jig will require some rethinking of our techniques. In my case, I have known for some years that I needed to rethink the kenjig. I was a very new Tormek sharpener when I started working on it. Dutchman's tables, the basis of the kenjig are still very sound, although some tweaking of the application would be beneficial. A thorough technique reset with the new jig is in order.
I predict that many of us old timers will soon be using the KJ-45 for much of our knife sharpening.
Ken
tgbto,
Your reply came in while I was typing. I agree about the simplified (and lower cost) manufacturing design. We will have to wait until we become familiar with the new jigs to know how much this simplified manufacturing translates into a more useful jig. I hardly ever use the long jig.
Ken
Maybe they made the "140" version, because they'll phase out the SVM versions? Tormek doesn't use Projection Distance in their setup, so they don't have the same needs that some of us do. So from their perspective, if the "KJ" versions work for most cases, is there a need to have both? ???
Well it's just over so here are my 2 cents (And no, I won't comment on using the AngleMaster when demonstrating a jig engineered to fit thick, heavily tapered knives ^^ ) :
It seems a well-built piece of hardware that indeeds does it's self-centering job. The clamping method doesn't seem overly fussy, and the design inspires confidence.
The projection length is now fixed, the upside of which is that the bloody handle won't turn while sharpening.
However, I really am a bit worried by the convexing method : should the blade "catch" on the wheel, as happened to me twice when I was not pushing down strongly enough on the handle, I fear for the blade and the stone... and me. Anyway, I think it only matters for thick knives where the concavity would have a noticeable effect, and among these I only sharpen cleavers (which won't mind being concave) or traditional japanese blades (which I don't sharpen on Tormek).
Cheers !
Quote from: tgbto on April 07, 2022, 05:00:21 PM
Well it's just over so here are my 2 cents (And no, I won't comment on using the AngleMaster when demonstrating a jig engineered to fit thick, heavily tapered knives ^^ ) :
...
Neither will I! ;)
I'm interested in how much shorter the projection distance is at the lower stop, as I do cleavers quite often (the other day one cleaver's shortest possible projection distance with the SVM-45 was 190mm).
CB, will Tormek discontinue the SVM jigs? I have no idea; however, I believe that decision will depend a lot less on projections than on the remaining useful life of the SVM tooling. If the tooling is nearing the end of useful life, I can't imagine any company investing in new tooling when new jigs are already in production.
tgbto, I remember ;D a number of posts complaining when Tormek switched from locking screws to rubber gaskets on the SVM jigs. I also remember stripped threads on the locking screws. I learned long after the fact that pre2002 SVM jigs had longer threaded shafts which provided considerably more adjustment range. Maybe the fixed projection of the KJ jigs won't be so bad after all.
I sent Sébastien an email describing the questions we had with the new jigs, asking if they could be incorporated into the online class. He replied that some of our questions seemed advanced, and that he did not want to lose the beginning users. He proposed having two classes (like with knives). That seems a wise choice to me. It gave us all a chance to see the jigs with a good amount of information. Later, when many of us have had the opportunity to actually use the jigs, they will return with a more advanced class. I think that is a good plan.
On the bright side, I may be able to list a couple of my SVM jigs for sale as "rare" and for a high price! ;D
Ken
ps I see two new replies have come in while I was typing......
Quote from: BeSharp on April 07, 2022, 05:29:24 PM
I'm interested in how much shorter the projection distance is at the lower stop, as I do cleavers quite often (the other day one cleaver's shortest possible projection distance with the SVM-45 was 190mm).
The distance between the stops is about 26 mm.
It will be very interesting to see what the convex surface is like using the dual-collar approach (which can be done now with the SVM jigs by adding a Pin Pivot Collar). It seems it will take some careful guiding to get a uniform, smooth curvature from that up and down motion, particularly along the curved tip area. I think it could result in super small, multiple bevels, not uniformly distributed. Too busy with other stuff to find out.
Rick
Quote from: Ken S on April 07, 2022, 05:48:01 PM
CB, will Tormek discontinue the SVM jigs? I have no idea; however, I believe that decision will depend a lot less on projections than on the remaining useful life of the SVM tooling. If the tooling is nearing the end of useful life, I can't imagine any company investing in new tooling when new jigs are already in production.
...
I'm more convinced after watching the video. :)
Quote from: Ken S on April 07, 2022, 05:48:01 PM
CB, will Tormek discontinue the SVM jigs? I have no idea;
If I'm not mistaken, I think they already refer to them as "the old jigs"...
Quote from: Ken S on April 07, 2022, 05:48:01 PM
Maybe the fixed projection of the KJ jigs won't be so bad after all.
It's probably not that bad given the additional stop, but it will require resetting USB between each knife, whereas I did 6 knives last weekend (SG, FVB honing) without a single reset.
It's probably not that bad given the additional stop, but it will require resetting USB between each knife, whereas I did 6 knives last weekend (SG, FVB honing) without a single reset.
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tgbto,
I see your point. However, does the USB really require resetting with each knife?
Using your example of six knives, do all six have different widths?
The KJ jigs both have two alignment pins 15 mm from the opening. That limits the maximum depth to 15mm. Tormek states that the minimum insertion to 2mm. That provides a maximum of 13mm "wiggle room" of projection length. Tormek also specifies a minimum knife width of 10mm. I think using a nine mm range from four mm to thirteen mm would provide a margin of safety.
Of the group of six knives, could they be grouped into two or three similar widths? That would mean only two or three USB adjustments. With the kenjig, I standardized on 139mm Projection and 80mm Distance for 15° per side. (paring knives required using the SVM-00. I used three preset jigs.)
Both KJ jigs have a jig only Projection of 150mm to the upper stop.
I suspect the KJ jigs will require a few more Distance (USB) adjustments. Gradual tweaking should fine tune the process. High volume sharpeners may end up using both new and "old" jigs. I like the option of having a self centering jig in my quiver.
Ken
Works well in my opinion after a week of use. I use 11.7mm as a new measure for jig diameter and it works well. With an ordinary kitchen knife, you are close to 140mm in projection distance. I like it and will use it a lot.
I enclose some measurements for those of you who are curious ..
Thanks for the information and the pics. The change in diameter that you mention means we can probably use it safely along with the older jigs without too much of an error. What was the height of the knife blade with which you had a 140mm projection distance ?
That knife was about 30mm high
2mm is the least you need to be able to clamp, according to Tormek, and it is possible to slide the knife up to 13.5mm in the jig. So you can fasten knives with between 24.5 to 36mm high blades and have the opportunity to set the projection distance to 139mm. Otherwise you have to specify the projection distance you get in a program.
Nice. My usual projection distance is 145 to 150mm because of rather high blades. So it should do. Thanks for the information, the niew jigs don't seem available in France yet, but I'll keep looking.
Cheers,
Nick.