I know that there are probably some that Edge-Trail sharpen knives freehand. And there are probably those that make a stand for the jig support so that they can use the knife jig on the support for Edge-Trailing sharpening.
Why is it that Tormek does not make a support bracket so that you can mount the jig support as to do Edge-Trailing sharpening?
Quote from: Oceanrider on August 10, 2020, 06:24:50 PM
I know that there are probably some that Edge-Trail sharpen knives freehand. And there are probably those that make a stand for the jig support so that they can use the knife jig on the support for Edge-Trailing sharpening.
Why is it that Tormek does not make a support bracket so that you can mount the jig support as to do Edge-Trailing sharpening?
Tormek does not... but there are a couple of aftermarket places that sell a "Front Vertical Base"...
https://schleifjunkies.de/en/produkt/vertical-front-base/
http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop.htm
... or make your own...
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2635.0
Quote from: cbwx34 on August 10, 2020, 06:45:53 PM
Tormek does not... but there are a couple of aftermarket places that sell a "Front Vertical Base"...
https://schleifjunkies.de/en/produkt/vertical-front-base/
http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop.htm
... or make your own...
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2635.0
Thanks for the links. Especially the make your own one. I will read up more on edge-trailing sharpening of knives more in that thread.
Why does Tormek not just make such a support?
Here is a link to a number of options:
http://www.sharpeninghandbook.info/indexJigs.html#PlatformHoning
I switched to edge trailing knife sharpening after meeting Steve Bottorff. Steve is a real deal knife guru who generally sharpens free hand edge trailing.
I switched to edge trailing using just the knife jig resting on the support bar. I now go back and forth between edge trailing and edge leading.
Tormek does not make make a jig support for edge trailing because1) they recommend edge leading and 2)the standard knife jig and support bar work either way.
Ken
Usually for knives I use edge trailing with the USB in the horizontal position.
However, I don't see a need for a "front vertical base".
There's also Jan's demonstration of sharpening from the opposite side of the vertical position...
(http://img21.rajce.idnes.cz/d2102/11/11771/11771137_37021e568ec44478b9ce7dc74d286378/images/Curiosity_700_DPI.jpg?ver=0)
... explained here: https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3081
Quote from: Ken S on August 10, 2020, 07:57:19 PM
...
I switched to edge trailing using just the knife jig resting on the support bar. I now go back and forth between edge trailing and edge leading.
Tormek does not make make a jig support for edge trailing because1) they recommend edge leading and 2)the standard knife jig and support bar work either way.
Ken
Quote from: Dutchman on August 11, 2020, 09:45:40 AM
Usually for knives I use edge trailing with the USB in the horizontal position.
However, I don't see a need for a "front vertical base".
It should be pointed out that sharpening knives with the USB in the horizontal position, only works for shorter knives, as explained in the manual...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4422.0;attach=4724)
... and can't be done on longer knives, without modification... replacing screws, I think Ken stated he ground away part of the jig?, etc.
Using an FVB also puts the knife in a more comfortable position IMO, and for me, a more natural movement.
CB,
My modifications of the knife jig and sleeves of the Tormek were designed for the more occasional sharpener, rather than a busy professional. I agree with you that using an FVB is more comfortable and natural. No question there. However, it is also a considerably more expensive solution.
I purchased a ten inch Victorinox chef's knife to see if it could be sharpened with the T4. (I was also using my US-430 support bar.) I noticed that the support bar was obstructed by the locking screw knob on the knife jig. The two locking screw knobs of the horizontal sleeves were also obstructions. I first replaced the big plastic knobs with button cap screws.I needed to grind away some of the threaded length because I couldn't find shorter screws. I realized this was unsatisfactory, so I switched to 10 mm long socket set screws which require no grinding. The underside of the jig required around a dozen strokes with a file or a little grinding to clear the support bar. Not a big deal. These simple, inexpensive modifications allow the users to both grind and hone longer knives edge trailing with the T4. These can be done elegantly with the FVB at considerably higher cost.
For higher sharpening volume, I would choose the FVB. For lower volume and budget, the socket set screws look better.
Thanks for reminding us about Jan's clever solution. I want to try it.
Ken
To all...I sharpen edge leading, but also have the FVB and software. In general what are the pros and cons of each. I know there are lots of different opinions on this. I sharpen as a relaxing hobby for myself and friends and relatives. It's not unusual for me to piddle around on one knife for 30 minutes or more. It keeps me from having to trim the hedge or pull weeds. Btw I have the new CBN wheels and the Japanese 4000 along with half speed grinder and paper wheels and rock hard felt.
Quote from: bgtklbx on August 12, 2020, 05:17:06 PM
To all...I sharpen edge leading, but also have the FVB and software. In general what are the pros and cons of each. I know there are lots of different opinions on this. I sharpen as a relaxing hobby for myself and friends and relatives. It's not unusual for me to piddle around on one knife for 30 minutes or more. It keeps me from having to trim the hedge or pull weeds. Btw I have the new CBN wheels and the Japanese 4000 along with half speed grinder and paper wheels and rock hard felt.
Unless you sharpen freehand, like this guy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkfakpVOgoc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkfakpVOgoc), or have a special jig that you make yourself, or buy from someone like Knife Grinders, it seems you can only edge-trail sharpen very narrow blades using the upright support.
Here is a quick fix I just found that will work for what look like maybe 2.5" wide, but probably not cleavers and such: https://youtu.be/NxhshLja_Fg (https://youtu.be/NxhshLja_Fg)
Can you get near 12 degree angle using a modified Tormek knife jig for Edge Trailing sharpening with both the large and small knife holder, including for narrow blades? How much do the knife holder(s) limit your angle for various blade widths? What might be the lowest angle with a narrow blade for Edge Trailing using the jig, modified of course?
Caveat: This is my opinion.
I think edge trailing sharpening was a later idea and not part of the original Tormek plan. The original horizontal sleeves (XB-100) were not part of the original Super Grind model. They were an optional extra to be installed by the user. Even today, the square edge jig does not align properly to be used edge trailing. The knife jigs still have the large plastic locking knobs which interfere with edge trailing use, as do the horizontal sleeves. The preferred Tormek method of honing is freehand.
Does this mean that knives can not be sharpened edge trailing or that an FVB is required? No, it only means that the constraint can easily and inexpensively removed by substituting socket set screws for the large plastic locking knobs. For the record, I did purchase an FVB. I like it and do use it for other purposes. I would purchase it again.
I useboth edge leading and edge trailing, depending on which seems most logical for the task at hand. Edge leading makes more sense to me when heavier grinding is required. I prefer edge trainling when I want more controlled grinding. I think a well trained Tormek sharpener should be fluent with both methods.
Ken
What about getting to 12 degrees with narrow knifes using the jig(modified) for edge trailing. Does the knife holder not rub?
Good question. As I am still sharpening with 15°, I don't know. One of my not too distant projects is switching to 12°.
When I modified my SVM-45 and US-430 to work in the edge trailing direction, in addition to replacing the plastic locking knobs (jig and both horizontal sleeves), I needed to grind off a bit of the jig. I am not sure what the correct name is for the area to be ground off; it's the area which doesn't clear the support bar.
I do not mean to imply that the need to grind off this partis due to a design fault by Tormek. The jig works fine for its intended grinding into method. I just wanted to be able to expand the scope to include grinding away.
(//)
Ken
PS Here is a photo showing the area I ground off. It did not require grinding off much to clear the support bar.