Tormek Community Forum

In the Shop => Knife Sharpening => Topic started by: jvh on January 23, 2020, 08:23:14 PM

Title: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on January 23, 2020, 08:23:14 PM
Hello everyone,

let me introduce essential tool for all knife-sharpeners – TormekCalc.

TormekCalc is an Excel* spreadsheet that offers exact calculations and many advanced functions related to knife or tool grinding. It is new generation of the original spreadsheet TormekCalc (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3919.0). Although it may seem more complicated at first glance, for basic calculations you have to enter exactly the same values as in other calculators - Projection distance, Wheel diameter, Grinding angle (and measured machine-dependent constants).


Current version contains these sheets:

Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.


Enjoy!


jvh

*) Tested with versions Excel 2010, Excel 2013, Excel 2016, Excel 2019, Excel 2021. Not compatible with Excel 365 since version 3.10.
    Not compatible with Google Sheets and others which don't support Structured references.




Attention!

Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc version 2.1+ available only via external web storage.

Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/ZPRC77zYu8) (WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly, PM me for the password).

Current version 3.10
(TormekCalc_Public_v310.zip, packed size 2 859 167 bytes, TormekCalc_Public_v310.xlsm, unpacked size 3 000 289 bytes + sample pictures in the Knives and Tools folders.)


Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on January 23, 2020, 08:23:44 PM
Screenshots...
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Even on January 24, 2020, 01:35:29 PM
Thank you JHV!
It looks very good, i have used the V1 for a long time, and looking forward to use V2!
You have done a very good job!

Even
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Jan on January 24, 2020, 03:38:03 PM
Jvh, than you very much for sharing the upgrade to your TormekCalc. In my thinking the TormekCalc2 is professionally made Excel spreadsheet which offers all what a Tormeker may need and even more. It is sophisticated script supplemented with perfect explanatory drawings. 

Thank you for offering the software for free. It's very generous! You made me very happy! I do not even want to think what price would be, for such a unique software, charged by some entrepreneurs.

Jan
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RichColvin on January 29, 2020, 01:14:00 AM
JVH:

I've added this to the Sharpening Handbook :  http://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexCalcTormekCalc2.html

Please let me know if you'd like any changes.

Kind regards,
Rich
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on January 29, 2020, 08:32:39 PM
Quote from: RichColvin on January 29, 2020, 01:14:00 AM
I've added this to the Sharpening Handbook :  http://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexCalcTormekCalc2.html

Kind regards,
Rich

Thank you! I really appreciate it.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Oldhand on February 03, 2020, 08:40:15 AM
Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your sharing your work on this. I look forward to "checking my work" with your spreadsheet using the marker method, as well as many other fine features. This was not an easy task to put together - thank you again for this. Haven't used it yet (though I have your earlier version, along with some modifications I've made myself - but here's everything I was thinking of and a whole lot more). I'm already excited about it. I do many things well, but trigonometry and spreadsheets are not two of them!
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: DiAngelo2003 on April 01, 2020, 11:15:49 AM
JVH,

Thank you for this super Excel sheet.
Extreme happy with it.

Also thank you for your help with setting up my FVB, it works super.

Harold

(https://i.imgur.com/aFHeKg4.jpg)
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Ornias on May 04, 2020, 12:11:55 AM
Wow, I just noticed this.
Awesome, this works even nicer than an application, because it generates values for multiple disks at one go.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Petter on May 11, 2020, 08:55:46 PM
I posted this on the newbie forum (Tips and tricks) and got kind responses and was asked to repost here. Anybody have these constants for T-4?

I am a total newbie and I am trying to use TormekCalc for T-4 but none of the constants are available for that machine.

Looking for constants for T-4: VH, HH, HV, VV as shown in the attached drawing

jvh kindly responded: "From some older notes I have:  VH=66  HH=29  HV=50  VV=20.  (I didn't double check... so do some testing to verify).

Also just so you know, you can use the "T USB" measurement... which measures from the top of the USB to the top of the wheel... that measurement doesn't need the machine measurements.  (The machine measurements only matter if you're setting the USB by measuring to the machine).  :)"
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Bryan D on May 19, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
Very nice work for a complex level of geometry.  I am having difficulty with errors after unzipping the two files. I also downloaded and installed the full file from the website using the Slow Download. The Dropdown feature for the Knives worksheet is disabled or does not work in the TormekCalc worksheet.  I am attaching the results of the repair log file. 

I am using Excel 2007 if that is the issue.

Regards
Bryan D
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on May 19, 2020, 08:05:09 PM
Quote from: Bryan D on May 19, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
I am using Excel 2007 if that is the issue.

Regards
Bryan D

Hello,

thank you for your feedback. Unfortunately Excel 2007 isn't supported. There are problems with data validation (was in your report), conditional formatting and function "Aggregate" is missing. Sorry.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Bryan D on May 21, 2020, 05:40:10 AM
I installed Excel 2010. Everything is working. I had developed an Excel worksheet to calculate the vertical height of the USB but it was just for the three grades of Tormek diamond wheels that I use. Your calculated numbers are "bang on".  I can appreciate the many hours you poured into the development of the TormekCalc2.  Thank you for that and thank you for sharing. 

Best regards

Bryan
Title: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator v2.15
Post by: jvh on June 11, 2020, 01:22:50 AM
Hello everyone,

new public version of TormekCalc2 is available (v2.15).

Main News:

Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.


Enjoy!


jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: john.jcb on June 11, 2020, 01:55:27 AM
Thanks for the update.

One thing you might consider adding is grinding wheel circumference instead of diameter. Divide by pi for diameter.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator v2.14
Post by: cbwx34 on June 11, 2020, 01:58:39 AM
Quote from: jvh on June 11, 2020, 01:22:50 AM
Hello everyone,

new public version of TormekCalc2 is available (v2.14).
...

Wow!  Impressive!

Where did the materials info come from?

BTW... so far so good on Excel (Office) 365.   ;D
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on June 11, 2020, 10:28:48 AM
Quote from: john.jcb on June 11, 2020, 01:55:27 AM
One thing you might consider adding is grinding wheel circumference instead of diameter. Divide by pi for diameter.

Just add formula "=<grinding wheel circumference>/PI()" to the appropriate Real diameter D cell, e.g. =785,4/PI()


Quote from: cbwx34 on June 11, 2020, 01:58:39 AM
Where did the materials info come from?

Sources are mentioned at the end of Materials sheet. Main were www.zknives.com, www.bladehq.com, www.agrussell.com, http://www.knifesteelnerds.com and Wiki. Some info was taken from steel producers specification.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Jan on June 11, 2020, 10:30:45 AM
JVH, thanks for sharing the updated version of TormekCalc2. Highly appreciated!

As an occasional knife maker I invite the new sheet with material parameters. I could imagine also basic heat treating info here.

Jan
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on June 11, 2020, 03:40:58 PM
Quote from: jvh on June 11, 2020, 10:28:48 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 11, 2020, 01:58:39 AM
Where did the materials info come from?

Sources are mentioned at the end of Materials sheet. Main were www.zknives.com, www.bladehq.com, www.agrussell.com, http://www.knifesteelnerds.com and Wiki. Some info was taken from steel producers specification.

jvh

Ok. Thanks.  (I did look...).  :-\

Probably one of the most comprehensive I've seen.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Fluehue on June 16, 2020, 11:50:40 PM
Can someone confirm that they can actually get a dropdown menu where you can choose machine in the TormekCalc sheet.
I can't get it to work even after reinstalling and trying every other trick i know.

I have tried three different computers and a mac and can't get a dropdown menu on any of them :(

Love the spreadsheet but really need this feature
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on June 17, 2020, 12:41:26 AM
Quote from: Fluehue on June 16, 2020, 11:50:40 PM
Can someone confirm that they can actually get a dropdown menu where you can choose machine in the TormekCalc sheet.
I can't get it to work even after reinstalling and trying every other trick i know.

I have tried three different computers and a mac and can't get a dropdown menu on any of them :(

Love the spreadsheet but really need this feature

Hello Fluehue,

thank you for your report in PM, I found the problem (different language version of Excel / translated names of functions). I will release updated version (2.15) as soon as possible.


jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on June 17, 2020, 03:32:26 PM
Hello everyone,

new version of TormekCalc2 (v2.15) has just been released, please upgrade. Download link is in the first post.

News:

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: john.jcb on June 17, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
I am not sure if I asked this but I thought of it while reading posts on using a sharpie.

Do you think it would be useful to have the program give the sharpening angle using the USB height and wheel diameter as inputs. This way you could accurately know and in the future replicate any blades sharpening angle.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on June 17, 2020, 07:41:07 PM
Quote from: john.jcb on June 17, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
I am not sure if I asked this but I thought of it while reading posts on using a sharpie.

Do you think it would be useful to have the program give the sharpening angle using the USB height and wheel diameter as inputs. This way you could accurately know and in the future replicate any blades sharpening angle.

Hello,

do you mean BevelCalc? It's already part of TormekCalc2...

BevelCalc allows reverse calculation of Bevel (grinded) angle through "marker method". USB height measurement can be taken from the surface of the grinding wheel or on any type of USB.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Gilles on June 20, 2020, 10:32:13 PM
Hi john,
There is a very nice functionality in Excel that allows you to do it in the Tormek Calc Sheet. I dont know exactly the name as my Excel is in French.
In the Data Tools group, click the What-if Analysis drop-down and choose Goal seek.
'Set cell' is the USB value
'To value' is the USB Value for which you whant to know the angle
and 'By changing cell' is the grinding angle cell.
When you press OK, Excel search the grinding angle that gives the USB value you have specify.
I hope this answer your request
Gilles 
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: HajoK on June 24, 2020, 10:35:11 PM
Moin,


another newbie with a T4 here.
First of all many thanks for this great tool! When I first heard about the Android app I thought this was screaming for an Excel implementation and considered figuring out the math myself. But I would never have gotten it that nice and complete.
Quotejvh kindly responded: "From some older notes I have:  VH=66  HH=29  HV=50  VV=20.  (I didn't double check... so do some testing to verify).
I tried to measure my T4 with a digital slide gauge and came up with VH = 67, HH = 29, HV= 49 and VV= 20. The off by 1mm could well be attributed to my sloppy measurement.
Anyway I used TormekCalc2 with these values instead of the WM-200 on the sixth knife I ever sharpened and am proud to say that this gave my best edge so far.


Hajo
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on June 24, 2020, 11:35:18 PM
Quote from: HajoK on June 24, 2020, 10:35:11 PM
Moin,


another newbie with a T4 here.
First of all many thanks for this great tool! When I first heard about the Android app I thought this was screaming for an Excel implementation and considered figuring out the math myself. But I would never have gotten it that nice and complete.
Quotejvh kindly responded: "From some older notes I have:  VH=66  HH=29  HV=50  VV=20.  (I didn't double check... so do some testing to verify).
I tried to measure my T4 with a digital slide gauge and came up with VH = 67, HH = 29, HV= 49 and VV= 20. The off by 1mm could well be attributed to my sloppy measurement.
Anyway I used TormekCalc2 with these values instead of the WM-200 on the sixth knife I ever sharpened and am proud to say that this gave my best edge so far.


Hajo

Thanks for doing this... I'm glad to see others taking measurements and posting the results. 
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on June 25, 2020, 10:20:19 AM
Hello HajoK,

thank you for your feedback and sharing measured constants of T-4.

As of version 2.14, an information table with a range of measured constants for various machines is on the Settings sheet (so far only constants for T-8 and T-4 are available).

Current T-4 constants ranges are (including your measurements):

HV 49,0-51,1
VV 19,5-20,0
HH 29,0
VH 66,0-67,0


If you want to check your constants setting, do it through T dimension (distance from USB to wheel surface S).

From TormekCalc2 FAQ:

Q: How can I check the height calculations for different Univesal support bars (USB's)?
A: Use T dimension (distance from USB to wheel surface S). This dimension stays the same for all USB's on the same wheel. Set the USB to the calculated distance T USB and then measure appropriate USB height. Compare measured value with the calculated one. If the values match, the constants for the selected support are set correctly, if not, the dimensions of the constants must be checked/re-measured. Repeat the procedure for next USB. Measure on trued wheel or use the same point on the surface to eliminate deviations given by an uneven wheel. You can use inserted spacer between the wheel and the USB for easy setting because precise measuring T distance can be tricky without suitable tool. Calculate the corresponding grinding angle in BevelCalc in this case.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on June 25, 2020, 02:25:53 PM
Quote from: jvh on June 25, 2020, 10:20:19 AM
...
Current T-4 constants ranges are (including your measurements):

HV 49,0-51,1
VV 19,5-20,0
HH 29,0
VH 66,0-67,0


While I appreciate the work here, I'd like to offer a bit of caution to others, especially if you're new to this... Don't get caught up in the decimals. ;)

For example, using the "extremes" of the HV and VV measurements here, results in a change of less than 1°.

With all that is going on, I think it's a bit of a fallacy to think that we're making changes of fractions of a degree (especially when switching between different wheels or machines), and that these minute changes are producing claimed results.  I've seen others (and include myself here, when I first dove into this), make entire changes to their calculators, based on tiny changes in machine measurements.  IMO, just not possible to be that precise.

Nothing wrong with being as accurate as possible, but in most cases, it will make little difference.  Consistency is important too... so pick numbers that work for you, and just stick with them... don't change every time someone posts a new set of measurements.  Then find a consistent, repeatable way making the measurement and stick with it.

The goal here is simply an easy and more accurate way of setting angles on knives, and eliminating some of the issues that other methods have.  I think of it as a simple calculator that gives me a quick and repeatable result (which is why I now just use the 'T' distance between the USB and wheel... it simplifies the process), not a computer program giving me decimal point accuracy.  :)

(BTW, this in no way disparages the work done by jvh here... I just don't want others, especially if new, to get overwhelmed, or take it for more than it is).


Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Dutchman on June 26, 2020, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 25, 2020, 02:25:53 PM
...
The goal here is simply an easy and more accurate way of setting angles on knives, and eliminating some of the issues that other methods have.
...
A "simple adjustment" has become a religion with computer based rituals and glorification of decimals. ;)
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on June 26, 2020, 11:39:13 AM
Hello gentlemen,

just to be clear, I mentioned possible ranges of constants from different machines. I don't know how they were measured, but they should provide a guide to where the constants should be.

I know that is hard to measure constansts with such accuracy, therefore I mentioned check through T dimension, because it allows you to make constants correction and then you need ... decimals.  You only have to do this once for each machine, because the constants remain the same, so in this case I do not consider more time needed for accurate measurement and adjustment to be a problem.

And the rest is about personal preferences, Excel has Increase decimal and Decrease decimal buttons, you can customize cells as you wish and work with chosen accuracy. There is such possibility. Moreover you can try more approaches and choose the one that suits you...

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on June 26, 2020, 02:36:52 PM
Quote from: jvh on June 26, 2020, 11:39:13 AM
Hello gentlemen,

just to be clear, I mentioned possible ranges of constants from different machines. I don't know how they were measured, but they should provide a guide to where the constants should be.

I know that is hard to measure constansts with such accuracy, therefore I mentioned check through T dimension, because it allows you to make constants correction and then you need ... decimals.  You only have to do this once for each machine, because the constants remain the same, so in this case I do not consider more time needed for accurate measurement and adjustment to be a problem.

And the rest is about personal preferences, Excel has Increase decimal and Decrease decimal buttons, you can customize cells as you wish and work with chosen accuracy. There is such possibility. Moreover you can try more approaches and choose the one that suits you...

jvh

Your first part I agree with.  It's good to have a good sampling of measurements, to help "dial in" where it should be.

But the 2nd part is what I mean.  There's nothing wrong with using the 'T' measurement to check things, in fact I started to put it in my original answer.  But saying you "need... decimals" to verify everything to "decimal point" accuracy, really won't matter.  We have it available, and nothing wrong with using it, but what I was trying to say is, if in few months, more measurements are provided, and the average changes a bit, there's no reason to update your personal calculations to reflect that.  (Which is what was happening at one point in all this, and I'm guilty too).  :-[   Just stick with consistency of what you have.

From my earlier example... taking the extremes of the horizontal and vertical measurements if I wanted to sharpen a knife at 20°, it gave a range of 19.17-20.87.  Now combine that with the fact that I would have to take 3 or 4 other measurements to set the angle, plus combine that with other variables... see what I mean?  In the end, it's just a better, and (if you don't think of it as a computer, but just a calculator), easier way to set angle... especially if you're not trying to set it to the .xx accuracy.

I can guarantee that the sharpness that some are getting is not based on decimal point accuracy, as much as it is finding a good consistent path to sharpness and refining it.  It has way more to do with technique, pressure, consistency, etc. than it does decimal points.  You could get the same results saying for example, "turn the microadjust two clicks" vs. "set the angle .5° higher"... same result, but easier... if that makes sense.

Like I said... nothing to do with your work here... it's a great resource.  I'm mainly just trying not to scare people off thinking it's too involved to bother with. ;)  It's really just a simple calculator in the end, and to me the best, easiest, and most consistent way to set the angle on knives.


Quote from: Dutchman on June 26, 2020, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 25, 2020, 02:25:53 PM
...
The goal here is simply an easy and more accurate way of setting angles on knives, and eliminating some of the issues that other methods have.
...
A "simple adjustment" has become a religion with computer based rituals and glorification of decimals. ;)

;D
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Jan on June 26, 2020, 03:14:56 PM
Last week I was shaping a new blade for an outdoor knife. I used the TormekCalc2 to calculate the length of the hollow grind (HR). My blade was 3 mm thick and for primary bevel angle of 3⁰ per side I calculated 14 mm length of the grind. The wheel diameter was 252.5 mm.

Jan
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on June 26, 2020, 04:26:52 PM
Quote from: Jan on June 26, 2020, 03:14:56 PM
Last week I was shaping a new blade for an outdoor knife. I used the TormekCalc2 to calculate the length of the hollow grind (HR). My blade was 3 mm thick and for primary bevel angle of 3⁰ per side I calculated 14 mm length of the grind. The wheel diameter was 252.5 mm.

Jan

Actually, it was 13.878   ;)  :D

Nice knife!
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Jan on June 26, 2020, 08:13:19 PM
Yes, CB, you are correct!  :)

For a knife maker it is nice to have the grind length under control. The picture shows how it was done. Initial belt grit was 40! After the heat treatment the blade is mounted in the jig in the same way for the finial grinding.

The knife design was inspired by Bob Loveless iconic 4" drop point knife.

Jan
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on June 26, 2020, 09:06:56 PM
Quote from: Jan on June 26, 2020, 08:13:19 PM
...
For a knife maker it is nice to have the grind length under control. The picture shows how it was done.
...

Did you design and or make that jig?  (I just happened to listen to a podcast this a.m. where they were talking about jigs in knife making).

Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Jan on June 26, 2020, 09:16:36 PM
The jig is my prototype of a self-centring knife jig for Tormek which was inspired by the knife clamp for Lansky controlled-angle system. It was described here: https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3834.msg25694#msg25694

Jan
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on July 08, 2020, 06:55:57 PM
So while I've "played around" with TormekCalc, yesterday I took it in the 'shop' and used it to do some sharpening.  What a great calculator.

One thing I did (not earth shattering) was to duplicate the TormekCalc sheet, and set one up for each machine.  Seemed to work without any issues, and let me set the parameters for each machine independently.

(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=4588)

Anyway, worked well!
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on July 08, 2020, 08:27:46 PM
Quote from: cbwx34 on July 08, 2020, 06:55:57 PM
So while I've "played around" with TormekCalc, yesterday I took it in the 'shop' and used it to do some sharpening.  What a great calculator.

Thank you, I appreciate that, especially considering you're also developing your own calculator.

Quote from: cbwx34
One thing I did (not earth shattering) was to duplicate the TormekCalc sheet, and set one up for each machine.  Seemed to work without any issues, and let me set the parameters for each machine independently.

Anyway, worked well!

Yes, it should work too. But you can specify different machines directly in Specification sheet and then select appropriate ones in the Wheel table on TormekCalc sheet - see pictures.


jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on July 08, 2020, 09:35:54 PM
Quote from: jvh on July 08, 2020, 08:27:46 PM
Quote from: cbwx34 on July 08, 2020, 06:55:57 PM
So while I've "played around" with TormekCalc, yesterday I took it in the 'shop' and used it to do some sharpening.  What a great calculator.

Thank you, I appreciate that, especially considering you're also developing your own calculator.

Mine is a Casio watch app compared to yours. ;)

Quote from: jvh on July 08, 2020, 08:27:46 PM
Quote from: cbwx34
One thing I did (not earth shattering) was to duplicate the TormekCalc sheet, and set one up for each machine.  Seemed to work without any issues, and let me set the parameters for each machine independently.

Anyway, worked well!

Yes, it should work too. But you can specify different machines directly in Specification sheet and then select appropriate ones in the Wheel table on TormekCalc sheet - see pictures.

jvh

True... I did work with that a bit... but giving each machine it's own page allowed my simple mind ??? to see all the variables for each machine, as well as the calculations in one place. :)  (if that makes sense).

Either way, I like it.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on July 12, 2020, 11:28:10 PM
Hello,

I've just added multilanguage support to new beta version of TormekCalc2. (But help in comments stays in English only - not possible to change it there without using VBA.)

If anyone wants to help with translation into other languages, please send me PM. I will send you a link to the latest version which contains language strings (currently English + Czech).


jvh
Title: TormekCalc2 – new version 2.40
Post by: jvh on July 31, 2020, 12:45:05 AM
Hello everyone,

new public version of TormekCalc2 is available (v2.40).

Main News:

If you don't plan to use any of the functions included in TormekCalc2 just hide unused row(s), column(s), sheet(s) etc. TormekCalc2 is fully customizable.  ;)

Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.


Enjoy!


jvh




Attention!

Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc2 version 2.1+ available only on external web storage.

Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/maOkyRTe4J/tormekcalc2-public-v240-zip) (WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly).


Current version 2.40
(TormekCalc2_Public_v240.zip, packed size 7881884 B, TormekCalc_Public_v240.xlsx, unpacked size 874746 bytes + sample pictures in Knives and Tools folders.)

Title: Re: TormekCalc2 – new version 2.40
Post by: cbwx34 on July 31, 2020, 03:59:09 AM
Quote from: jvh on July 31, 2020, 12:45:05 AM
...
"AngleJig" calculation

Added to TormekCalc sheet, it allows setting heigth of USBs by calculated angle using an inclinometer or angle meter.

Setting with an inclinometer seems to be very easy and quick because requires the angle measuring between grinding wheel surface and vertical USB support (with reset on horizontal or vertical plane).
For more info see https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?&topic=4393.0

New picture with angles description was added to TormekCalc sheet.

Please note that this is the first and unique approach how to measure USB height this way and this feature is still in experimental mode.
...

Well... I'm not gonna bet the farm on one trial run, but I set the USB the "old" way  :D ... then checked the angle...

(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=4676)

... maybe you're onto somethin' here.   ;)
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Even on August 23, 2020, 08:44:18 PM
Hello.

Is there anyone who have measured the constants on a Tormek T7?
VH=?  HH=?  HV=?  VV=?
I am getting an old T7 to use with my t8, i can messure when i get it, but maybe there are someone out her who alredy have done it.

Even
Title: TormekCalc2 – new version 2.44
Post by: jvh on October 11, 2020, 07:22:24 PM
Hello everyone,

new public version of TormekCalc2 is available (v2.44).

Main News:

If you don't plan to use any of the functions included in TormekCalc2 just hide unused row(s), column(s), sheet(s) etc. TormekCalc2 is fully customizable.  ;)

Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.

Hint: If you have data in Knives or Tools sheet just select all uses rows between column C to AD (included), copy them to clipboard (Ctrl+C) and paste them as VALUES to new version of TormekCalc2.

Enjoy!

jvh




Attention!

Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc2 version 2.1+ available only on external web storage.

Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/HqRHECWou5/tormekcalc2-public-v244-zip) (WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly).


Current version 2.44
(TormekCalc2_Public_v244.zip, packed size 1 083 740 bytes, TormekCalc_Public_v244.xlsx, unpacked size 1 080 936 bytes + sample pictures in the Knives and Tools folders.)

Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on October 12, 2020, 04:57:27 PM
I'm always impressed by the updates.  I think you have more code in one "cell" than I do in an entire app!  Your command of Excel is impressive.

Thanks for the update!
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on October 20, 2020, 10:15:22 PM
Hello again,

I sharpened some stuff on tool rest SVD-110 and realized that it is possible to count and set desired angle in TormekCalc2. If is someone interested to test and verify it before releasing, you can find settings data for Jig sheet in the picture below. After entering these data new jigs appear on TormekCalc (Tools database) and BevelCalc sheets.

Measured values are taken from standard SVD-110 tool rest, I think they can vary a little bit on other batches. Calculation for modified or user made tool rests is possible, you just need to specify new jig and add correct values on Jig sheet.

- For calculation you have to select Jig "SVD-110 long side" or "SVD-110 short side", enter Projection length and desired Grinding angle (see picture Calculation.jpg).
- For setting you have to set calculated USB height and then set the tool rest angle via projection length (see picture Setting via projection length.jpg).
- Reverse calculation of the angle set on tool rest can be done on BevelCalc sheet.

Attention:
Angle is calculated on the tool rest plane. The grinded apex may be higher due material thickness, therefore angle correction may be necessary. Use EdgeCalc sheet to calculate correct Angle at edge heel (preferred) or change Tool diameter to shift the axis of the apex to the right position.

Setting can be tricky at first because it can be difficult to find ideal projection length for given grinding angle, but if you find it once you can use it over and over again. And have you ever seen other app for the tool rest angle calculation?  ;)


jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on October 21, 2020, 10:26:04 PM
Quote from: jvh on October 20, 2020, 10:15:22 PM
Hello again,

I sharpened some stuff on tool rest SVD-110 and realized that it is possible to count and set desired angle in TormekCalc2. If is someone interested to test and verify it before releasing, you can find settings data for Jig sheet in the picture below. After entering these data new jigs appear on TormekCalc (Tools database) and BevelCalc sheets.

Measured values are taken from standard SVD-110 tool rest, I think they can vary a little bit on other batches. Calculation for modified or user made tool rests is possible, you just need to specify new jig and add correct values on Jig sheet.

- For calculation you have to select Jig "SVD-110 long side" or "SVD-110 short side", enter Projection length and desired Grinding angle (see picture Calculation.jpg).
- For setting you have to set calculated USB height and then set the tool rest angle via projection length (see picture Setting via projection length.jpg).
- Reverse calculation of the angle set on tool rest can be done on BevelCalc sheet.

Attention:
Angle is calculated on the tool rest plane. The grinded apex may be higher due material thickness, therefore angle correction may be necessary. Use EdgeCalc sheet to calculate correct Angle at edge heel (preferred) or change Tool diameter to shift the axis of the apex to the right position.

Setting can be tricky at first because it can be difficult to find ideal projection length for given grinding angle, but if you find it once you can use it over and over again. And have you ever seen other app for the tool rest angle calculation?  ;)


jvh

I didn't spend a lot of time on it, but just adding your numbers into TormekCalc, playing with the variables, and checking it with an AngleMaster, I didn't see any red flags (other than usual finicky AM).  :) 

I just measured directly to the SVD and didn't add any tools/knives into the mix at this point.  I'm not much of an SVD-110 user, so hopefully someone who is will give it a more in depth test for you.

Have a diagram?  (Always helps me to see what's actually going on...).  :)

Good stuff (as usual)! 


Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on October 24, 2020, 12:20:47 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on October 21, 2020, 10:26:04 PM
Have a diagram?  (Always helps me to see what's actually going on...).  :)

Good stuff (as usual)!

Hello,

at your service...  ;)

First example shows SVD-110 set at 25° on tool rest plane, which means that this angle will be reached at edge heel.
Drawing is CAD simulation with all needed dimensions, first screnshot is TormekCalc calculation, second one is from EdgeCalc sheet where you can see calculated Angle at the edge heel 25° which means that grinded angle at the apex will be 18,86° on showed example (symmetrical grind). You can find the grinded angle value manually by trial and error method (not too difficult) or via Excel function What-If Analysis/Goal Seek.

Second example shows SVD-110 set at 25° at the apex. Blade grind is symmetrical again and axis lays 5 mm above tool rest plane (10 mm = blade thickness).
Drawing is CAD simulation with all needed dimensions, screenshot is TormekCalc calculation where you have to change jig diameter M value ( +10 mm (2*5) because it is diameter and axis lays 5 mm above tool rest). The last screenshot is calculation from EdgeCalc sheet again.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Ken S on October 24, 2020, 02:29:12 PM
The same program could be applied to homemade small platforms; although, as they are generally one off, dimensions would not be standardized.

Ken
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on October 24, 2020, 04:32:28 PM
Quote from: jvh on October 24, 2020, 12:20:47 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on October 21, 2020, 10:26:04 PM
Have a diagram?  (Always helps me to see what's actually going on...).  :)

Good stuff (as usual)!

Hello,

at your service...  ;)

jvh

Thanks! 🤯   :)

Quote from: Ken S on October 24, 2020, 02:29:12 PM
The same program could be applied to homemade small platforms; although, as they are generally one off, dimensions would not be standardized.

Ken

That's what nice about his spreadsheet... easily allows you to enter your own parameters.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Ken S on October 24, 2020, 08:19:36 PM
Ah ha........clever.

Ken
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 18, 2021, 05:23:07 PM
Hello everyone,

new public and non-public version of TormekCalc2 is available (v2.63).

Main News:

If you don't plan to use any of the functions included in TormekCalc2 just hide unused row(s), column(s), sheet(s) etc. TormekCalc2 is fully customizable.  ;)

Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.

Hint: If you have data in Knives or Tools sheet just select all uses rows between column C to AD (included), copy them to clipboard (Ctrl+C) and paste them as VALUES to new version of TormekCalc2.

Enjoy!

jvh




Attention!

Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc2 version 2.1+ available only on external web storage.

Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/zAeZhD0mJY) (WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly).

Current version 2.63
(TormekCalc2_Public_v263.zip, packed size 1 487 684 bytes, TormekCalc_Public_v263.xlsx, unpacked size 1 555 756 bytes + sample pictures in the Knives and Tools folders.)

Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Merx27 on April 19, 2021, 11:49:28 AM
Your spreadsheet is awesome and your Excel skills far exceed mine. I had been creating my own spreadsheet for US height and when I saw yours I could see where I had been going wrong in making the trigonometry too difficult for myself. I have now added a simple extra to calculate the micro-adjustments needed between sides when clamping 'V' section knives to avoid the asymmetry of bevel grinds with the standard jigs. This is not the ideal solution as I need to readjust each time I turn the jig and there is a danger of forgetting! I am still experimenting with the other solutions from this forum...

I look forward to seeing the non-public updated version
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 19, 2021, 09:08:50 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 19, 2021, 11:49:28 AM
Your spreadsheet is awesome and your Excel skills far exceed mine. I had been creating my own spreadsheet for US height and when I saw yours I could see where I had been going wrong in making the trigonometry too difficult for myself. I have now added a simple extra to calculate the micro-adjustments needed between sides when clamping 'V' section knives to avoid the asymmetry of bevel grinds with the standard jigs. This is not the ideal solution as I need to readjust each time I turn the jig and there is a danger of forgetting! I am still experimenting with the other solutions from this forum...

I look forward to seeing the non-public updated version

Hello Merx27,

thank you for your feedback.

I hope that I understand what you mean... can you add a photo/screenshot to your post?

Isn't it easier to make these corrections on the SVM jig by turning the adjustable stop? I did this until I started using eccentric bushings (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3918).
I made a mark on adjustable stop, found required No. of turns to correct angle on second side, wrote 0 on the first side of blade and eg. +3/4 on the second side of blade and then tried to be 100% concentrated to flip the jig to the correct side while grinding.  :)

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: John S on April 20, 2021, 01:37:23 AM
The level of work on this calculator is way above my ability. If someone takes the time to watch your video in the link there is so much your TormekCalc does.  I have multiple machines and have different grit wheels on them. Talk about making this an easy and accurate endeavor. Thank you.

Yes, I am freeloader-shaming here. The level of work deserves some donations to defray his costs and maybe put a little cash in his pocket.  There are two other people that I know sell a tormek calculator for good money.  This is original work, not copies of anybody's efforts. I am donating to him.  Please help by doing the same.  I will use paypal.

John
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 21, 2021, 10:06:25 PM
Quote from: John S on April 20, 2021, 01:37:23 AM
The level of work on this calculator is way above my ability. If someone takes the time to watch your video in the link there is so much your TormekCalc does.  I have multiple machines and have different grit wheels on them. Talk about making this an easy and accurate endeavor. Thank you.

Yes, I am freeloader-shaming here. The level of work deserves some donations to defray his costs and maybe put a little cash in his pocket.  There are two other people that I know sell a tormek calculator for good money.  This is original work, not copies of anybody's efforts. I am donating to him.  Please help by doing the same.  I will use paypal.

John


Hello John,

thank you for your post, I really appreciate it.

I know that TC2 can look very complicated at first glance, but it should be seen as a suite of modules that are interconnected and they give much more advantages if you use them together.

That's why I created a "tutorial video" for the new BatchCalc module where is shown a little bit of TC2 capabilities. Well, it's my first video, so it looks like that... but I still believe it's useful for users to introduce advanced features. I hope to find time to make other ones, because it's really pain to do it with video skill at level 0. :) But the day I don't learn anything new is a lost day...


jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Merx27 on April 22, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Quote from: jvh on April 19, 2021, 09:08:50 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 19, 2021, 11:49:28 AM
Your spreadsheet is awesome and your Excel skills far exceed mine. I had been creating my own spreadsheet for US height and when I saw yours I could see where I had been going wrong in making the trigonometry too difficult for myself. I have now added a simple extra to calculate the micro-adjustments needed between sides when clamping 'V' section knives to avoid the asymmetry of bevel grinds with the standard jigs. This is not the ideal solution as I need to readjust each time I turn the jig and there is a danger of forgetting! I am still experimenting with the other solutions from this forum...

I look forward to seeing the non-public updated version

Hello Merx27,

thank you for your feedback.

I hope that I understand what you mean... can you add a photo/screenshot to your post?

Isn't it easier to make these corrections on the SVM jig by turning the adjustable stop? I did this until I started using eccentric bushings (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3918).
I made a mark on adjustable stop, found required No. of turns to correct angle on second side, wrote 0 on the first side of blade and eg. +3/4 on the second side of blade and then tried to be 100% concentrated to flip the jig to the correct side while grinding.  :)

jvh

Hi JVH,
This is just the shot of my front page of the spreadsheet inspired by yours. To calculate the different USB height needed for the inverted jig: I use an angle finder to get 'Total angle between primary bevels' and then take that angle off the 'delta k' for the and then recalculate to give me desired bevel angle with new USB height. I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.

The eccentric cam can be similarly calculated but it is still prone to human error so I am currently focusing on a jig that holds Vee section blades in alignment as this removes the need to remember to do anything between sides but not yet settled on a solution. I do not see how the shimming methods can work as they still maintain the error in angle orientation and shifting the blade parallel to the jig makes no difference at all (IMHO)

Tonight, I experimented trying to get an even bevel width around the curve of a blade and when  I moved the jig towards or away from the tip of the blade, as suggested in the Tormek manual (P53 of v. 10.5) it made NO difference to the bevel width! So, I then used a laser guide-line across the stone while using the SVM45 and successfully kept an even bevel around the curve of the blade by keeping it on the laser line. This removed the black magic of how much to lift and rotate the blade.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: micha on April 23, 2021, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 22, 2021, 09:19:13 PM

I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.
Hi Merx27,
in my understanding 1 numeral equals 0.25mm, as there are six numbers on the nut and thread pitch is 1.5mm.
(but maybe I missed an important thought)
Mike
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Merx27 on April 23, 2021, 05:13:32 PM
Quote from: micha on April 23, 2021, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 22, 2021, 09:19:13 PM

I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.
Hi Merx27,
in my understanding 1 numeral equals 0.25mm, as there are six numbers on the nut and thread pitch is 1.5mm.
(but maybe I missed an important thought)
Mike

Doh! You are absolutely right and underlines the need for me to pursue methods that minimise human error. Thank you Mike.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Ken S on April 24, 2021, 05:45:26 PM
JVH,

I am glad that you have correctly noticed the usefulness of the tool rest SVD-110. I believe it is an underutilized tool, and even more useful in its homemade small platform versions. Sadly, these platforms to not fit in the Tormek "jig controlled sharpening" philosophy.

Ken
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 25, 2021, 10:57:29 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 22, 2021, 09:19:13 PM

Hi JVH,
This is just the shot of my front page of the spreadsheet inspired by yours. To calculate the different USB height needed for the inverted jig: I use an angle finder to get 'Total angle between primary bevels' and then take that angle off the 'delta k' for the and then recalculate to give me desired bevel angle with new USB height. I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.

The eccentric cam can be similarly calculated but it is still prone to human error so I am currently focusing on a jig that holds Vee section blades in alignment as this removes the need to remember to do anything between sides but not yet settled on a solution. I do not see how the shimming methods can work as they still maintain the error in angle orientation and shifting the blade parallel to the jig makes no difference at all (IMHO)

Tonight, I experimented trying to get an even bevel width around the curve of a blade and when  I moved the jig towards or away from the tip of the blade, as suggested in the Tormek manual (P53 of v. 10.5) it made NO difference to the bevel width! So, I then used a laser guide-line across the stone while using the SVM45 and successfully kept an even bevel around the curve of the blade by keeping it on the laser line. This removed the black magic of how much to lift and rotate the blade.

Hello Merx27,

by turning the eccentric sleeve, one side of the jig is raised and the other is lowered. The axis of the top of the jig moves and this centers the blade. The aim is to obtain a symmetrical clamping before grinding and no further adjustment is required during grinding. The method I use is described below.

Shims method works the same way but from other side. Keep in mind that the work axis does not have to pass through the tool axis all the way, as this is not necessary - for correct adjustment the axis must pass through the axis of the blade and through the jig center in the point where it rests on the support.

I can confirm that the method described in the Tormek manual (P53 version 10.5) has a visible effect, at least on knives from a length of approx. 15 cm.

jvh


Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Merx27 on April 26, 2021, 10:19:23 AM
Quote from: jvh on April 25, 2021, 10:57:29 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 22, 2021, 09:19:13 PM

Hi JVH,
This is just the shot of my front page of the spreadsheet inspired by yours. To calculate the different USB height needed for the inverted jig: I use an angle finder to get 'Total angle between primary bevels' and then take that angle off the 'delta k' for the and then recalculate to give me desired bevel angle with new USB height. I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.

The eccentric cam can be similarly calculated but it is still prone to human error so I am currently focusing on a jig that holds Vee section blades in alignment as this removes the need to remember to do anything between sides but not yet settled on a solution. I do not see how the shimming methods can work as they still maintain the error in angle orientation and shifting the blade parallel to the jig makes no difference at all (IMHO)

Tonight, I experimented trying to get an even bevel width around the curve of a blade and when  I moved the jig towards or away from the tip of the blade, as suggested in the Tormek manual (P53 of v. 10.5) it made NO difference to the bevel width! So, I then used a laser guide-line across the stone while using the SVM45 and successfully kept an even bevel around the curve of the blade by keeping it on the laser line. This removed the black magic of how much to lift and rotate the blade.

Hello Merx27,

by turning the eccentric sleeve, one side of the jig is raised and the other is lowered. The axis of the top of the jig moves and this centers the blade. The aim is to obtain a symmetrical clamping before grinding and no further adjustment is required during grinding. The method I use is described below.

Shims method works the same way but from other side. Keep in mind that the work axis does not have to pass through the tool axis all the way, as this is not necessary - for correct adjustment the axis must pass through the axis of the blade and through the jig center in the point where it rests on the support.

I can confirm that the method described in the Tormek manual (P53 version 10.5) has a visible effect, at least on knives from a length of approx. 15 cm.

jvh

Thanks again JVH, you are helping me to get my head around all of this  ;D. I relooked at the eccentric bushing idea and see now that it is a good way forward so I will resin-cast a 12mm tube against the inside of another larger tube (18mm) and then experiment with a scale to aid set-up.

I still cannot see how shims work unless they are used to rotate the blade in the jig, please see my attachment.

It is likely that the Tormek manual method has a small effect but for me, all it does is change how much I lift the handle of the blade. I will stick with the guideline approach (laser or otherwise) as this suits me and gets excellent results

Thanks again for your help
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 28, 2021, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 26, 2021, 10:19:23 AM
Thanks again JVH, you are helping me to get my head around all of this  ;D. I relooked at the eccentric bushing idea and see now that it is a good way forward so I will resin-cast a 12mm tube against the inside of another larger tube (18mm) and then experiment with a scale to aid set-up.

I still cannot see how shims work unless they are used to rotate the blade in the jig, please see my attachment.

It is likely that the Tormek manual method has a small effect but for me, all it does is change how much I lift the handle of the blade. I will stick with the guideline approach (laser or otherwise) as this suits me and gets excellent results

Thanks again for your help

Hello Merx27,

a shim can help, but must be placed at the end of the jaw only (or have a triangle profile). An eccentric bushing is also very helpful here because the correction with shim is very rough and the bushing allows fine adjustment.

Other way is special jig. Although it looks weird, the blade is well centered. There is different angle on each side but also different protrusion length, so you get an even grind when you flip it.

See the photos for a better idea...

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Merx27 on April 28, 2021, 07:16:42 PM
Quote from: jvh on April 28, 2021, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 26, 2021, 10:19:23 AM
Thanks again JVH, you are helping me to get my head around all of this  ;D. I relooked at the eccentric bushing idea and see now that it is a good way forward so I will resin-cast a 12mm tube against the inside of another larger tube (18mm) and then experiment with a scale to aid set-up.

I still cannot see how shims work unless they are used to rotate the blade in the jig, please see my attachment.

It is likely that the Tormek manual method has a small effect but for me, all it does is change how much I lift the handle of the blade. I will stick with the guideline approach (laser or otherwise) as this suits me and gets excellent results

Thanks again for your help

Hello Merx27,

a shim can help, but must be placed at the end of the jaw only (or have a triangle profile). An eccentric bushing is also very helpful here because the correction with shim is very rough and the bushing allows fine adjustment.

Other way is special jig. Although it looks weird, the blade is well centered. There is different angle on each side but also different protrusion length, so you get an even grind when you flip it.

See the photos for a better idea...

jvh

Hi JVH
I found shims very fiddley and sensitive to tiny movements, especially when the blade also tapered towards the tip. I could make them work but it took so much time to set it up. Have you a source for tapered shims, that would make like very much easier? Instead, I considering making different angle rebates in a couple of my SVM-45s but without a machine shop, this was likely to be a little uneven. I thought about using a homemade jig to hold the bottom jaw against my belt sander...

I like the look of the adjustable jig - did you make that? My fear, when considering something similar, was that the pivot between the shaft and the jaws might not be strong enough with a large knife but you have inspired me to reconsider. I'm not sure how the different protrusion lengths help but it may be that I haven't got my head fully around how you use it.

Thanks for sharing your experience, you are way ahead of me. I have received my casting resin and will get onto the eccentric bushing as soon as I finish the 5 Global knives and a food processor blade that came in today.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:33:15 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 28, 2021, 07:16:42 PM
Hi JVH
I found shims very fiddley and sensitive to tiny movements, especially when the blade also tapered towards the tip. I could make them work but it took so much time to set it up. Have you a source for tapered shims, that would make like very much easier? Instead, I considering making different angle rebates in a couple of my SVM-45s but without a machine shop, this was likely to be a little uneven. I thought about using a homemade jig to hold the bottom jaw against my belt sander...

Hello Merx27,

Yes, that's right - fiddly, time consuming...
I haven't any source of tapered shims. I am using a piece of cable tie as shim + double side tape if I need it.

Quote
I like the look of the adjustable jig - did you make that? My fear, when considering something similar, was that the pivot between the shaft and the jaws might not be strong enough with a large knife but you have inspired me to reconsider. I'm not sure how the different protrusion lengths help but it may be that I haven't got my head fully around how you use it.

Yes, one of the prototypes. It is robust enough for such a task, but the precise setting can also be time consuming.
I made several designs and there are different ways how to make the adjustable version. In the end, when I compared the price, versatility and speed and accuracy of the settings, I ended up again with an eccentric bushing. But I don't give up, I have some more ideas how to made a perfect jig...

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Hello,

I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle. It also briefly introduces EdgeCalc - next module in the TormekCalc2 - its using and capabilities.
The bonus part focuses on verifying the results using a goniometer (laser protractor).

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG_MmPIUPss

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on April 29, 2021, 08:55:51 PM
Quote from: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Hello,

I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle. It also briefly introduces EdgeCalc - next module in the TormekCalc2 - its using and capabilities.
The bonus part focuses on verifying the results using a goniometer (laser protractor).

Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG_MmPIUPss

jvh

Nice job (as always).

Probably worth pointing out (or correct me if I'm wrong), 😑 that these are scale drawings that validate the formulas, not just drawings made with numbers inserted.

Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Dutchman on April 30, 2021, 10:55:23 AM
Quote from: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
... [snip]
I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle.
... [snip]
jvh
I do not agree that the sharpening angle is not affected by the thickness of the blade when the blade is clamped in the jig resting on the USB.
During the sharpening process, the tip of the blade will lower towards the stone, while the resting point of the jig remains on the USB. This will cause the jig to tilt towards the stone, changing the angle.
I described that in my publication "More math for the Tormek grinder" after CBWX34 reported that problem to me. See https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849)
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 30, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on April 29, 2021, 08:55:51 PM

Nice job (as always).

Probably worth pointing out (or correct me if I'm wrong), 😑 that these are scale drawings that validate the formulas, not just drawings made with numbers inserted.

Hello cbwx34,

you are right, the dimensions are "live", they are from parametric CAD, not static images. I drew 3D models of my T-8 and some jigs and use them to verify the calculated results.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 30, 2021, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: Dutchman on April 30, 2021, 10:55:23 AM
Quote from: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
... [snip]
I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle.
... [snip]
jvh
I do not agree that the sharpening angle is not affected by the thickness of the blade when the blade is clamped in the jig resting on the USB.
During the sharpening process, the tip of the blade will lower towards the stone, while the resting point of the jig remains on the USB. This will cause the jig to tilt towards the stone, changing the angle.
I described that in my publication "More math for the Tormek grinder" after CBWX34 reported that problem to me. See https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849)

Hello Dutchman,

no, this is something else. It is caused by excessive grinding. If you grind over the axis*) the grinding angle will rise as the jig protrusion length will shorten. It is also mentioned and showed in my video HERE (https://youtu.be/vG_MmPIUPss?t=232). But it has nothing to do with the thickness of the blade.

jvh

*) Meaning the axis of the blade in this case, as the calculations in TormekCalc2 are performed for symmetrical grinds by default.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: tgbto on April 30, 2021, 11:52:18 AM
I would tend to agree with JVH. Most of the blades we intend to sharpen are not a knife blank, and even in this case we would probably try not to grind through the axis. So whether the blade is extremely thin or thick will not matter with regard to the grind angle... as long as the blade is centered in the jig.

The only actual effect due to blade width that I can see today is the effect on the assymetry of the grind due to the assymetry of the jig.

As I don't have jvh's machinery skills, I am more thinking of drilling through the jig handle close and parallel to the axis and setting a blind nut which would allow me to correct by adding just enough offset on the long side to make sure the knife sits on the laser line on both sides. It is probably not perfect but it is the only doable thing I can think of with my skills, the excentric bushing and the like being out of my league.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 30, 2021, 12:23:30 PM
Quote from: tgbto on April 30, 2021, 11:52:18 AM
As I don't have jvh's machinery skills, I am more thinking of drilling through the jig handle close and parallel to the axis and setting a blind nut which would allow me to correct by adding just enough offset on the long side to make sure the knife sits on the laser line on both sides. It is probably not perfect but it is the only doable thing I can think of with my skills, the excentric bushing and the like being out of my league.

Hello tgbto,

all you need to make an eccentric bushing is a drill, drill bits and a piece of aluminum rod. I made first pieces this way.

I hope I understand what you mean... but if the knife sits on the laser line on both sides, it does not guarantee that it is well centered, it only means that the protrusion is the same. I check the symmetrical clamping with AngleMaster as described in Reply #61.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on April 30, 2021, 01:53:17 PM
Quote from: jvh on April 30, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on April 29, 2021, 08:55:51 PM

Nice job (as always).

Probably worth pointing out (or correct me if I'm wrong), 😑 that these are scale drawings that validate the formulas, not just drawings made with numbers inserted.

Hello cbwx34,

you are right, the dimensions are "live", they are from parametric CAD, not static images. I drew 3D models of my T-8 and some jigs and use them to verify the calculated results.

jvh

Thanks.  I was pretty sure, but wanted to point out the "independent verification" that a CADD drawing provides.  (Sure helped me).

Quote from: jvh on April 30, 2021, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: Dutchman on April 30, 2021, 10:55:23 AM
Quote from: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
... [snip]
I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle.
... [snip]
jvh
I do not agree that the sharpening angle is not affected by the thickness of the blade when the blade is clamped in the jig resting on the USB.
During the sharpening process, the tip of the blade will lower towards the stone, while the resting point of the jig remains on the USB. This will cause the jig to tilt towards the stone, changing the angle.
I described that in my publication "More math for the Tormek grinder" after CBWX34 reported that problem to me. See https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849)

Hello Dutchman,

no, this is something else. It is caused by excessive grinding. If you grind over the axis*) the grinding angle will rise as the jig protrusion length will shorten. It is also mentioned and showed in my video HERE (https://youtu.be/vG_MmPIUPss?t=232). But it has nothing to do with the thickness of the blade.

jvh

*) Meaning the axis of the blade in this case, as the calculations in TormekCalc2 are performed for symmetrical grinds by default.

Actually, I think you two are talking about 2 different things.

Dutchman is correct that a thick blade sitting on the stone is at a different angle than a sharpened blade.  But, the calculator gives the "sharpened angle", which is what we want.  So, if I sharpen the thick blade correctly, working both sides and never sharpen past the center line, I will end up with the desired angle.

jvh is correct that if I take that same blade and sharpen past the center line, (think of the extreme where I sharpen one side all the way to the other side, then flip it over), I will shorten the Projection Distance, which will change the resulting angle.

In either event, thickness does not matter in a blade that is correctly sharpened.  ;)
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on April 30, 2021, 04:33:57 PM
Quote from: cbwx34 on April 30, 2021, 01:53:17 PM
Actually, I think you two are talking about 2 different things.

Dutchman is correct that a thick blade sitting on the stone is at a different angle than a sharpened blade.  But, the calculator gives the "sharpened angle", which is what we want.  So, if I sharpen the thick blade correctly, working both sides and never sharpen past the center line, I will end up with the desired angle.

jvh is correct that if I take that same blade and sharpen past the center line, (think of the extreme where I sharpen one side all the way to the other side, then flip it over), I will shorten the Projection Distance, which will change the resulting angle.

In either event, thickness does not matter in a blade that is correctly sharpened.  ;)

Hello again,

yes, in this example the angle changes and I pointed this problem two times in my video, but it has nothing to do with the thickness of the blade. This is related to the clamping / feeding method (and axis and protrusion length).

When a thick blade is sitting on the stone it means that there is some ungrinded material and you are above the blade axis and not at the point where you should be. The same situation is when you are under the blade axis.

A simple example - let's imagine that we mount the SVD-110 in the opposite way than usual and try to grind the chisels. We will grind chisels with different thicknesses, feeding method is shown by the arrows. As you can see the apex angle always remains the same regardless of the thickness, so how the thickness affects sharpening angle?

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: tgbto on May 03, 2021, 03:34:11 PM
Hey jvh,

A quick question on upgrading from one version of TormekCalc to the next... Do you keep some kind of crude backward compatibility, so I can copy/paste the diameters and knife dimensions / angles / protocols ?

Cheers,

Nick.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on May 03, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
Quote from: tgbto on May 03, 2021, 03:34:11 PM
Hey jvh,

A quick question on upgrading from one version of TormekCalc to the next... Do you keep some kind of crude backward compatibility, so I can copy/paste the diameters and knife dimensions / angles / protocols ?

Cheers,

Nick.

Hello tgbto,

good question. See below, I basically try not to change the structure of the tables, but sometimes it's not possible.

TormekCalc
- possible for green cells D10:D13 and shadow cells D16:D22 (since v.2.01)
- not possible in Wheel table (Real diameter, Machine, Grinding angle shift) as I have added new wheels in v.2.63

BatchCalc

- new module in v.2.63, no previous data

Knives + Tools

- possible for both databases since v. 2.01. Just select data between column C to AD (included), copy them to clipboard (Ctrl+C) and paste them as VALUES to the new version of TC2.

BevelCalc
- possible for green cells D7:D20 since v.2.40 ("Angle jig" calculation was added)

EdgeCalc
- possible for green cells D9:D11 since v.2.01

Materials
- not needed if no changes were made to Material table, otherwise insert rows, and copy/paste data

Jigs
- possible to copy/paste data, but it can corrupt translation in ,,Notes" column.

Settings
- not possible in Default values table as structure was changed
- possible for green cell in Machine table since v.2.01 - copy and paste data as VALUES into the appropriate cells in the new version of TC2

It is important that the databases can be copied without any problems, the other modules do not have much data and the upgrade should take about 10-15 minutes.
If it is not possible to copy the data at once, due to a change in structure, it is possible to copy and paste it in parts to the appropriate place in the new version.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: tgbto on May 03, 2021, 04:52:38 PM
Thank you for the quick and detailed answer!

If I can copy/paste the knives table, the upgrade is going to be fairly quick as I will just have to change the wheel diameters on the TormekCalc tab, along with the values for the KG FVB which do not match the default values. I don't know if there would be a real interest in having the most commonly used FVBs available from a drop-down list with a Custom choice, same as the wheels. But all in all it's only a matter of filling less than ten cells.

Last, for the material, the only steel I have which I cannot find in the list is Hitachi GIN-3 http://zknives.com/knives/steels/ginsanko.shtml, semis stainless 59-62RC which I have in my Korin Ginsanko Deba.

I'll be experimenting with the batchcalc for my next batch of ... 2 knives ^^

Cheers,

Nick.



Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on May 03, 2021, 11:21:39 PM
Quote from: tgbto on May 03, 2021, 04:52:38 PM
If I can copy/paste the knives table, the upgrade is going to be fairly quick as I will just have to change the wheel diameters on the TormekCalc tab, along with the values for the KG FVB which do not match the default values. I don't know if there would be a real interest in having the most commonly used FVBs available from a drop-down list with a Custom choice, same as the wheels. But all in all it's only a matter of filling less than ten cells.

Hello again,

could be, can you send me these default values? (But at first I will probably add some info table with values for different FVB types.)

Quote
Last, for the material, the only steel I have which I cannot find in the list is Hitachi GIN-3 http://zknives.com/knives/steels/ginsanko.shtml, semis stainless 59-62RC which I have in my Korin Ginsanko Deba.

I have added Hitachi GIN-3 and GIN-5 steels to the material table. Thanks for noticing.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: tgbto on May 07, 2021, 09:24:01 AM
Hi !

Quote from: jvh on May 03, 2021, 11:21:39 PM

could be, can you send me these default values? (But at first I will probably add some info table with values for different FVB types.)


Sure: I have measured a default FVB distance F for my KG FVB of 27.8mm. I also set the min FVB distance to this.

I'm not too sure about the precision of the measurements because I am having a hard time precisely taking distances between elements that are not in the same plane. I have a total variable length HF-FVB of 146mm, which seems OK.

Cheers,

Nick.

Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on May 17, 2021, 08:10:02 PM
Hello everyone,

new public and non-public version of TormekCalc2 is available (v2.67).

Main News:


Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.

Hint: If you have data in Knives or Tools sheet just select all uses rows between column C to AD (included), copy them to clipboard (Ctrl+C) and paste them as VALUES to new version of TormekCalc2.

Enjoy!

jvh




Attention!

Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc2 version 2.1+ available only on external web storage.

Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/LrCciLI8eP) (WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly).

Current version 2.67
(TormekCalc2_Public_v267.zip, packed size 2 026 804 bytes, TormekCalc_Public_v267.xlsx, unpacked size 2 186 094 bytes + sample pictures in the Knives and Tools folders.)

Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: LarK on May 17, 2021, 09:54:18 PM
 Wow just found this and it's a game changer!

Is it possible to add data for felt wheels and recommended honing angles like knifegrinders recommend? Understand if this is only for Tormek specific products^^
Would you be interested in adding Swedish language to the Excel file? I might be able to provide this if so. Cheers!
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on May 18, 2021, 12:00:10 AM
Quote from: LarK on May 17, 2021, 09:54:18 PM
Wow just found this and it's a game changer!

Is it possible to add data for felt wheels and recommended honing angles like knifegrinders recommend? Understand if this is only for Tormek specific products^^
Would you be interested in adding Swedish language to the Excel file? I might be able to provide this if so. Cheers!

Hello LarK,

yes, you can add data for any wheel or machine. There are 3 slots for custom wheels in hidden columns, but you can also change unused wheels data specification to something else. For honing at higher angles is designed "Grinding angle shift ±Δ [°]" function, see picture.

Any translation is welcome, if you do it you will become a contributor. Please use the "Language5" column on the Languages sheet, send me a PM for help if necessary, as there are formulas in some cells.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: LarK on May 18, 2021, 05:09:32 AM
Great 😊 I'll give it a shot, dusting off the old excel skills. Great tip btw. I'm guessing it will be possible to save the offset angle for honing for specific knives/steels.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on May 18, 2021, 09:57:29 PM
Quote from: LarK on May 18, 2021, 05:09:32 AM
Great 😊 I'll give it a shot, dusting off the old excel skills. Great tip btw. I'm guessing it will be possible to save the offset angle for honing for specific knives/steels.

Hello,

You can save the offset angle to Notes for knives/tools and Sharpening notes for materials.

I do not plan to load these values automatically, because I consider this concept to be problematic. As you may have noticed, I don't automatically follow the suggested procedures, instead I try to verify them and find out what they really are. My experiences suggest that the correct grinding technique and more precise settings between the individual steps have a significant effect on the formation of burrs, which can be eliminated during grinding and subsequent honing at a higher angles is not necessary.

jvh
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Fortgeschrittener Schleifrechner
Post by: Wolfros on July 06, 2021, 07:23:36 PM
Hello,
I could give the code in VBA to read the comments. Then you could adapt that in the appropriate language.
Unfortunately, my knowledge of English is very poor

Sub KommentarzellenAuflisten()
    Dim raZelle As Range
    Dim wsTabelle As Worksheet
    Dim loZeile As Long
    Dim raBereich As Range
    loZeile = 1
    For Each wsTabelle In Worksheets
        If wsTabelle.Name <> "TormekCalc" Then
            On Error Resume Next
            Set raBereich = wsTabelle.UsedRange.SpecialCells(xlCellTypeComments)
            On Error GoTo 0
            If Not raBereich Is Nothing Then
                For Each raZelle In raBereich
                    With Worksheets("TormekCalc")
                        .Cells(loZeile, 1) = raZelle.Address
                        .Cells(loZeile, 2) = raZelle.Parent.Name
                        .Cells(loZeile, 3) = raZelle.Comment.Text
                    End With
                    loZeile = loZeile + 1
                Next raZelle
            End If
            Set raBereich = Nothing
        End If
    Next wsTabelle
End Sub
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Fluehue on October 17, 2021, 10:40:35 AM
There seems to be a password to download the new version.

Where can I get the code?

:)
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on October 17, 2021, 04:29:08 PM
Quote from: Fluehue on October 17, 2021, 10:40:35 AM
There seems to be a password to download the new version.

Where can I get the code?

:)

Send a message to jvh.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Fluehue on October 18, 2021, 10:26:25 AM
I did, hoping he will answer soon :)
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on October 18, 2021, 11:17:15 PM
Quote from: Fluehue on October 18, 2021, 10:26:25 AM
I did, hoping he will answer soon :)

Hang in there... worth the wait! :)
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on December 27, 2021, 05:05:27 PM
I made a quick guide for someone on what to change to use TormekCalc2 with the T-4... thought I'd add it here...

(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6065)

The red arrows point to the machine measurements, the blue are the ones for sharpening, and the green are the common answers used... either directly to the wheel (T USB) or to the casing (VUSB).

This is just for sharpening from the vertical position (I didn't check the other measurements).
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Ken S on December 28, 2021, 06:03:36 PM
CB,

As you and I both know, my knowledge of and experience with the computer programs is limited. (I'm not being modest, only honest.)

I am curious to learn how settings (from the frame) for a T4 differ from a T7/8 with a grinding wheel worn to 200mm.

Ken
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on December 28, 2021, 06:42:34 PM
Quote from: Ken S on December 28, 2021, 06:03:36 PM
CB,

As you and I both know, my knowledge of and experience with the computer programs is limited. (I'm not being modest, only honest.)

I am curious to learn how settings (from the frame) for a T4 differ from a T7/8 with a grinding wheel worn to 200mm.

Ken

The only real difference is the measurement from the center of the shaft to the top of the casing on the T-4 is smaller.

(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6067)

And it only matters if you set the height of the USB by measuring to the top of the casing.  If you measure directly to the wheel, there is no difference.
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Pietje on January 23, 2022, 08:36:46 AM
Hello jvh!
The Excel sheet is superb to me.
What are the SWIFT banking data to send money to you?

Pietje
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: MartinC on February 08, 2022, 01:25:45 AM
What is the process for purchasing TormekCalc2?

Thanks
Title: Re: TormekCalc2 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on February 08, 2022, 02:05:09 AM
Quote from: MartinC on February 08, 2022, 01:25:45 AM
What is the process for purchasing TormekCalc2?

Thanks

Send a PM to Forum Member  jvh (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31598)
Title: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on February 22, 2022, 12:32:30 AM
Version 3.00 has been released (NOT available as Public version)

Introduction video is at https://youtu.be/EWMpvw2No0Y

Main news:

Note: All users of the full version should have received the new version, if not, please send me a private message or email. Some messages are being returned to me as undeliverable, probably due to more aggressive anti-spam filters.

jvh
Title: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on May 19, 2022, 10:12:54 PM
Version 3.10 has been released (available as Public and Full version)

Main news:

Download link is in the first post.


Enjoy!


jvh

Note: All users of the full version should have received the new version soon, if not, please send me a private message or email. Some messages are being returned to me as undeliverable, probably due to more aggressive anti-spam filters.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on October 30, 2022, 10:32:45 PM
Hi there!

Amazing work with the Calc! I just started using it and I have some newbie questions.

Thank you.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on October 30, 2022, 11:43:38 PM
I may be wrong (been a while since I looked at it), but I'm pretty sure the "Front Vertical Offset" F needs to be changed to 20 (in the green box D13).  The offset is different for Colvin's FVB, and selecting the Machine doesn't change this (I think I had a conversation with jvh about this).

Anyway, try that (or maybe send a message to jvh) and see if I'm right.  I get a Height FUSB of around 101.   (That closer?)

This is why I like using direct to wheel measurements.    ;)

And you're right, that box under the Jig Specifications should be unlocked... I caught that too... you can un-protect the whole sheet and unlock it that way.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 03:35:59 PM
Thank you. Let me re-measure the FVB offset. I tried the 20, but it seems to ignore the value bellow minimum of 24.4. Let's see if @JVH notice this post.
Speaking of direct measurements, it got me thinking yesterday (at 2am...) https://electronoobs.com/eng_arduino_tut72.php

Would it be cool to put together an IR distance sensor, Arduino, some LCD screen and 3D print a mount that goes here:
(https://i.imgur.com/d7z5uBg.jpg)

It sounds simple, but I hope there is a simpler solution for the contactless distance sensor for the short distances. Something pre-made and battery-powered.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on October 31, 2022, 03:54:44 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 03:35:59 PM
Thank you. Let me re-measure the FVB offset. I tried the 20, but it seems to ignore the value bellow minimum of 24.4. Let's see if @JVH notice this post.

Under the settings sheet (page) change F26 to 20.  That should allow the change.  BTW, I'm assuming that you have the FVB pushed up against the machine.

(I sent jvh a message.)  :)

No idea about the sensor.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: tgbto on October 31, 2022, 04:34:45 PM
That sensor sure sounds like a complex way to solve a simple problem  :)
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 04:48:01 PM
Quote from: tgbto on October 31, 2022, 04:34:45 PM
That sensor sure sounds like a complex way to solve a simple problem  :)
Perhaps. That height measurement feels bit clumsy. There is no fixed point to measure against. I would gladly pay up for a reliable, fast and easy way to know the support height.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: tgbto on October 31, 2022, 04:55:26 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 04:48:01 PM
Perhaps. That height measurement feels bit clumsy. There is no fixed point to measure against. I would gladly pay up for a reliable, fast and easy way to know the support height.

Why don't you mesure USB to stone ? It's an easy measurement to take as you basically measure to the closest point of the stone, and you don't need any intermediate measurements that might compound the error....
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 06:24:17 PM
This one?
(https://i.imgur.com/iGODBy8.png)
I have no idea how to figure out the tangent to a stone surface.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on October 31, 2022, 06:40:50 PM
You measure the shortest distance between the top of the USB to the stone (basically, aim an imaginary line to the center of the wheel).
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 06:50:42 PM
I will try that. The trouble I see with it - there is a subjective part in the measurement. That shortest distance is an estimation.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on October 31, 2022, 07:52:00 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 06:50:42 PM
I will try that. The trouble I see with it - there is a subjective part in the measurement. That shortest distance is an estimation.

Pretty easy after a few tries.  Some have come up with a method to help while learning, for example RickKrung used a rubber band...

(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4983.0;attach=6430)

... all methods are a bit subjective, but more than enough in accuracy.  :)
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 08:03:54 PM
<3 the rubber band jig. That's clever!
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: jvh on October 31, 2022, 09:20:54 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 30, 2022, 10:32:45 PM
Hi there!

Amazing work with the Calc! I just started using it and I have some newbie questions.

I just did a first knife with it and the calculation was off by a bit. Here is the calculation:
I have two Tormeks, Machine 6 is one with Front Vertical from Colvin. Target angle was 15dps, protrusion: 144mm.
SG-250 support height was 172.19, SJ-250 on Frontal was 97.70. And that was off - I had to raise the support ~2 rotations to match the angle, according to sharpie. I wonder if something in my calculations is visibly off.

Hello,

cbwx34, thanks for your help, you've nailed it again.  :)

As cb mentioned in post #101 (and #99) - In the Settings sheet, change the value in cell F26 to 20 (or less). This cell contains the Minimum FVB distance value, and any lower value is ignored because it is assumed to be an input error.
The problem was that the calculations were performed with a value of F = 24.4 mm.


Quote
I wonder if it good idea to "split" the Jig Projection Length into protrusion from tip of KJ-45 to the edge of the knife like this:

The length of the KJ jig is fixed, so it would be much easier to measure only the knife sitting depth.
If I am guessing right, the H1 on Jigs page is what I need:
But that one is protected, so I wonder if I am mistaken.

It's actually a great idea to measure the knife sitting depth in the KJ-45 jig and the Projection length correction X+ is designed for just that purpose.
I don't currently have the KJ-45 on hand, so I don't know the X+ length, but it will be the exact length that is NOT highlighted in your picture. The highlighted part of the dimension "Jig projection length X" (= knife sitting depth) will be entered into the input cell.

The cell with "Projection length correction X+" is protected, but to modify it just unlock the Jigs sheet, as CB also wrote...


Quote
Would it be cool to put together an IR distance sensor, Arduino, some LCD screen and 3D print a mount that goes here:

Nice idea.


Quote from: tgbto on October 31, 2022, 04:55:26 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 04:48:01 PM
Perhaps. That height measurement feels bit clumsy. There is no fixed point to measure against. I would gladly pay up for a reliable, fast and easy way to know the support height.

Why don't you mesure USB to stone ? It's an easy measurement to take as you basically measure to the closest point of the stone, and you don't need any intermediate measurements that might compound the error....

If there is a chance of a digital height reading, the USB to body measurement implementation is easier than USB to stone...

jvh

Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: tgbto on November 02, 2022, 09:18:05 AM
With regard to digital height reading, I think I remember from my robotics days the IR detection cone being somewhat around 20° inclusive. Which means a 50mm measurement area at a 150mm distance, and I'm not sure the detection area will be clean enough... Maybe LIDAR ?

As for the USB to stone measurement being subjective, I find it to be quite precise even without the rubber band : you just have to rotate the calipers around the USB till you barely touch the stone, and you have the shortest distance. The tiniest rotation of the microadjust nut takes it off the wheel, which is about as precise as you can go on the Tormek.

But even when going digital, my gut feeling is this area is going to be cleaner than the one directly under the USB, and what you'll get as the closest object is indeed the stone at the point closest to USB.

Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Ken S on November 02, 2022, 04:25:23 PM
I like Rick's use of a marking gage as a "depth gage" to measure from the top of the support bar to the edge of the grinding wheel. (I call this measurement "Distance" in my PDF describing the kenjig.) The substantial metal rod seems less rickety than the thin flat metal extension on four way calipers. I prefer the larger footprint "gage block" approach of the kenjig, although the adjustability feature of the marking gage is formidable. (Rick, a machined rod with a larger foot would combine the best features of both. Or, perhaps a collar or spacer with an ID matching the diameter of the rod. This would eliminate the need for machining.)

I have always measured from the top of the support bar to the edge of the grinding wheel, as highlighted in yellow in the diagram. I have never thought of it was inaccurate. The flat bottom does not perfectly match the curvature of the grinding wheel; however, I can eyeball matching gaps on both sides. Given the same wheel diameter, it works on my T7 or T8 with no compensation. I have never understand any advantage for measuring to the frame.

Ken
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on November 02, 2022, 05:23:06 PM
Quote from: Ken S on November 02, 2022, 04:25:23 PM
...
The substantial metal rod seems less rickety than the thin flat metal extension on four way calipers.
...

I flipped it around...

(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6860)

... I found doing it this way to be more accurate/consistent, than trying to use the thin extension. 
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Perra on November 02, 2022, 05:54:59 PM
I can also contribute with a tip on a jig that I use daily. Fast and easy to use. It works for all diameters of wheels that I have. Both grinding wheels and honing wheels. Easy to make yourself if you are a little handy. I have adjusted the slide gauge 0.15mm to compensate for the highest point of the wheel which is in between the legs of the "fork". A little training and then it's very quick to set or measure the USB height
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on November 02, 2022, 07:35:25 PM
That's a nice idea! More I look at this, more I want to figure out the 3D modeling/printing.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RichColvin on November 02, 2022, 08:13:36 PM
Sergei, if you go down this path, look hard at Fusion 360.  It is a great tool for 3D modeling, and I understand there is a licensing which is free for non-commercial users.  Some of the other 3D CAD programs I've tried don't make smooth curves and that can be problematic for some parts you would want to make.

Fusion 360 can output to a 3D printer directly, but I prefer to output the file in STL format, and then use a separate slicer tool.  I use Ultimaker's Cura for that.  It is a free tool.

As for 3D printers, the  Creality Ender is a good product at a good price.  There are other better and faster printers, but the Creality Ender seems to be a good starting printer (I have the Ender 3 v2).  You can print using both PLA and ABS filament which covers most use cases.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on November 02, 2022, 08:52:35 PM
@RichColvin! Just a person I need right now. A quick question for you: The VF constant is slightly off in the TormekCalc. I believe it is set for Vadim's VFB. I measured the distance from the center of horizontal support arm to the top of the unit is 10.14mm
(https://i.imgur.com/aXemA0C.jpg)
4.14mm from the hole edge to the top and 12mm diameter of the hole.
Is that correct? It was not the best measurement

In the Calc the constant VF for the Colvin Tools is set to 53.80 from my measurements is comes to 51.14mm
I need to re-measure everything to be sure.

Let's do a math check. I need this distance:
(https://i.imgur.com/oWeZItr.png)

In the Calc we have a HH of 41.0 (F17) and VF 56.0 (F20) the difference is 15.0mm.
I measured that value for the Colvin Tools as 10.14mm, so the VF for the Machine should be 56.0 - (15-10.14) = 51.14mm
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RichColvin on November 03, 2022, 02:02:48 AM
The bar should be 12mm in diameter, so the number you are seeking should be 12/2 + 4.14 = 10.14.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: WimSpi on November 03, 2022, 11:16:45 AM
I slightly modified my depth gauge
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RickKrung on November 03, 2022, 02:07:33 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on November 02, 2022, 08:52:35 PM
...snip...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6874)
4.14mm from the hole edge to the top and 12mm diameter of the hole.
Is that correct? It was not the best measurement
...snip...

Thought I might offer some alternative methods for making measurements, ones that I use all the time when "reverse engineering" existing parts that I want to work with and come up with reliable numbers. 

First, with something like an existing hole, I like to make two measurements - to/from opposite sides of the hole to a reference surface and then average the two readings.  They are almost always different, due to measurement/user error.  Having and average of two measurements reduces the effects of those errors.  Your photo shows step one.  For clarity, I show how I measure from the Inside Dimension (ID) to the flat surface.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6876)

Measuring to the other side of the hole ID is difficult because when putting one caliper jaw on the opposite inside surface, what to you put the other jaw against?  Clamp a piece of stock to the flat surface that protrudes just enough to get the "insided" caliper jaw against it.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6878)

Another way is to take advantage of the shaft being securely inserted into the hole, as in the shaft in the upper part of your photo.  Using the caliper faces on the back side of the caliper head, a very reliable measurement can be made from the flat surface to the close side of the shaft.  Be sure the wider flat/perpendicular face of the caliper jaw is solidly flat on the outside surface of the block. 
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6880)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6882)

The more common, but less reliable method is to use the inside jaws between the shaft and a clamped bar.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6884)

For the second measurement, to the opposite side of the shaft, use the inside jaws, in the more familiar manner.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6886)

Again, average readings from measurements to each side of the hole. 

I hope this is clear enough and helpful.

Rick
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on November 03, 2022, 06:13:15 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on November 02, 2022, 08:52:35 PM
@RichColvin! Just a person I need right now. A quick question for you: The VF constant is slightly off in the TormekCalc. I believe it is set for Vadim's VFB. I measured the distance from the center of horizontal support arm to the top of the unit is 10.14mm
...

One thing I noticed is that the edge of the hole appears chamfered?... and it looks like you're measuring to that.

IMO, the best way to measure is with the base setup like you're going to use it... (I'd put the rod back in.)

Also, I noted that your FVB looks slightly different than the one I got early on.  I asked Rich if there was a change in measurements... he said he did make some slight changes, but didn't know if the measurements changed.  I get a different measurement than you (around 6.8 ), so it's possible the one used in the TormekCalc Spreadsheet might have been different.  (Why it's often recommended to measure your own setup.)

Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RickKrung on November 04, 2022, 04:13:43 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 03, 2022, 06:13:15 PM
...snip...
One thing I noticed is that the edge of the hole appears chamfered?... and it looks like you're measuring to that.
...snip...

I noticed that too and if that is how it was measured, your point is spot on.  It does look like there is about the same amount of gap between the edge of the block and the other jaw, however, so I took it as he had taken the measurement OK, and was just resting the calipers for taking the photo. 
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6888)

If the picture does show the actual measurement being made, then the calipers are cocked as well, with the jaw back away from the edge of the block, which would add additional error.  Speaks to alternative methods i mention above. 

Rick
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on November 04, 2022, 01:37:15 PM
Yup. It's not the measurement photo. I just wanted to remember where it was measured and I was lazy to write it down. So I measured an take a picture in general vicinity.

It looks like, I found what was introducing the error into Calc. With measured numbers, the angle matches.
I also tried the Bosch GM220 trick for the USB height setting. It's precise, but it takes time to set the angle on that thing. How lovely would it be if Tormek engraved the ruler onto smooth USB leg.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: cbwx34 on November 04, 2022, 03:11:29 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on November 04, 2022, 01:37:15 PM
Yup. It's not the measurement photo. I just wanted to remember where it was measured and I was lazy to write it down. So I measured an take a picture in general vicinity.

It looks like, I found what was introducing the error into Calc. With measured numbers, the angle matches.
I also tried the Bosch GM220 trick for the USB height setting. It's precise, but it takes time to set the angle on that thing. How lovely would it be if Tormek engraved the ruler onto smooth USB leg.

Glad you got it working.

Doubt we'd ever see a ruler engraved... too many variables.  Someone in the Tormek group on FB found a machine with one of these hooked up...

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803735396716.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US

... don't have any details.  (If you join the group and search for "digital" you'll find the thread.)
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RickKrung on November 04, 2022, 03:42:52 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 04:48:01 PM
...snip...
Perhaps. That height measurement feels bit clumsy. There is no fixed point to measure against. I would gladly pay up for a reliable, fast and easy way to know the support height.

Eons ago when I was still messing with measuring the USB to case height, here (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,2962.msg25025.html#msg25025) is the best solution I had found for making consistent readings.  The depth gauge foot with the angled end spaces the measurement point far away enough from the slope of the case close to the vertical support boss and the top Micro-Adjust nut maintains the calipers parallel to the USB bar. 

Photo shows the depth caliper in position and the two Micro-Adjust nuts, link to the thread provides the discussion. 

Costs involved were the special depth caliper and one more Micro-Adjust nut.  Even so, once I figured out that measuring from the USB direct to the stone/wheel surface was faster, more accurate and universal (applies to vertical or horizontal USB with our without the FVB and to the honing wheels) I've never used the above measurement method again. 

Rick
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RickKrung on November 04, 2022, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: Ken S on November 02, 2022, 04:25:23 PM
I like Rick's use of a marking gage as a "depth gage" to measure from the top of the support bar to the edge of the grinding wheel. (I call this measurement "Distance" in my PDF describing the kenjig.) The substantial metal rod seems less rickety than the thin flat metal extension on four way calipers. I prefer the larger footprint "gage block" approach of the kenjig, although the adjustability feature of the marking gage is formidable. (Rick, a machined rod with a larger foot would combine the best features of both. Or, perhaps a collar or spacer with an ID matching the diameter of the rod. This would eliminate the need for machining.)

I have always measured from the top of the support bar to the edge of the grinding wheel, as highlighted in yellow in the diagram. I have never thought of it was inaccurate. The flat bottom does not perfectly match the curvature of the grinding wheel; however, I can eyeball matching gaps on both sides. Given the same wheel diameter, it works on my T7 or T8 with no compensation. I have never understand any advantage for measuring to the frame.

Ken

Ken, I am not following the benefit what you are expressing in bolded text above.  I think the 8mm (0.312) dia. rod is about perfect as a "foot" for contacting the wheel surface.  Wider can lead to errors in reading if the corners contact rather than the center.  The key is making sure the shaft is parallel to the line between the USB and axle, which is best shown by the rubber band, rather than eyeballing, IMO. When that is done right, it aligns the contact point to the center of the shaft.  A wider food would only interfere/complicate matters, again IMO.  (The oft referenced rubber band photo).
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6892)

Rick
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on November 04, 2022, 05:52:09 PM
Quote from: RickKrung on November 04, 2022, 03:42:52 PM
here (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,2962.msg25025.html#msg25025) is the best solution I had found for making consistent readings.  The depth gauge foot with the angled end spaces the measurement point far away enough from the slope of the case close to the vertical support boss and the top Micro-Adjust nut maintains the calipers parallel to the USB bar.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832520112533.html

...or this... https://www.zoro.com/mitutoyo-electronic-digital-depth-gage-0-to-8-in-571-212-30/i/G0321824 if the cheap version works as good as I hope it would
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Sir Amwell on November 04, 2022, 08:19:20 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Surely the truly accurate way of determining a given bar to stone measurement would be to follow a line to the centre of the shaft? Not ' parallel ' to the rubber band as in the photo?
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Ken S on November 04, 2022, 10:45:21 PM
Quote from: Sir Amwell on November 04, 2022, 08:19:20 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Surely the truly accurate way of determining a given bar to stone measurement would be to follow a line to the centre of the shaft? Not ' parallel ' to the rubber band as in the photo?


You are correct. In this case, I wonder how "truly accurate" we need to be. In my opinion, the minute amount of error introduced with the rubber band is not significant.

Ken
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RickKrung on November 04, 2022, 11:17:04 PM
Quote from: Ken S on November 04, 2022, 10:45:21 PM
Quote from: Sir Amwell on November 04, 2022, 08:19:20 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Surely the truly accurate way of determining a given bar to stone measurement would be to follow a line to the centre of the shaft? Not ' parallel ' to the rubber band as in the photo?


You are correct. In this case, I wonder how "truly accurate" we need to be. In my opinion, the minute amount of error introduced with the rubber band is not significant.

Ken

In a totally literal sense, yes.  But in a practical sense, no.  Ran this through a CAD exercise.  The difference is 0.0055" (0.140mm) for a 250mm wheel and 0.0056" (0.142mm) for a 215mm wheel (honing).  That amounts to a maximum difference in angle of 0.11º at 16º .  I doubt that I can set the marking gauge that precisely, so my error could easily be even greater.  I'm quite a detail person, some may call me anal.  It would be easy to add 0.14mm to the distance displayed by the angle app used for setting the marking gauge.  I am not that anal, however. 

Rick
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Ken S on November 05, 2022, 01:40:09 AM
Rick,

I think we are saying the same thing, although your more technical way seems more impressive. Just my opinion; however, I do think our computers can carry accuracy further than we actually need. this is fine, as long as we remember to keep our expectations reasonable.

Ken
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RickKrung on November 05, 2022, 03:04:41 AM
We are and we agree.

Rick
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: Ken S on November 06, 2022, 05:59:46 PM
Rick,

What I have not seen with bevel angle accuracy is "within tolerance" or "not within tolerance". As you know, even top quality machinist tools like Starrett are built to certain tolerances. These tolerances are often listed in their catalog. We have tolerances for flatness, parallelism, squareness, thickness, etc. Gage blocks, including angle gage blocks, are available in different precision grades (and prices!). These grades are often called shop floor, tool room, and laboratory. I don't believe an expert machinist or tool maker would ever say "perfectly" whatever. Rather, he would say "within tolerance".

Knives do not have to "mate" with other tools. Sharpness is essential; precision is not so essential. "Sharp" is not a fixed concept. A knife which seems "perfectly sharp" to a home cook making pot roast might seem unacceptably dull to a professional sushi chef.

What to do? We know basic general standards of sharpness. Smoothly cutting copy paper is a standard test, as is cutting a ripe tomato. I believe anyone sharpening for business should establish realistic personal standards. I would not expect the standard for a typical "farmer's market" rapid sharpening job to be the same as what someone paying top dollar to sharpen an expensive custom knife. Each has its own applications.

Ken
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: tgbto on November 07, 2022, 11:52:43 AM
Quote from: Sir Amwell on November 04, 2022, 08:19:20 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Surely the truly accurate way of determining a given bar to stone measurement would be to follow a line to the centre of the shaft? Not ' parallel ' to the rubber band as in the photo?

I use the same technique as described by @cbwx34 here (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4181.msg37136.html#msg37136). You can get around the problem you mention by measuring the distance to the stone using a point 6mm away from the caliper slider.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: SergeiDubovsky on November 08, 2022, 05:46:07 PM
Speaking of angles. In the calc it gives a single value of "T USB" (tangent distance to stone surface from the support) for both front USB, regular USB and horizontal USB.
Logically, it should be the same, no matter what type of support is used. But I just want to double-check, if I am missing something.
Title: Re: TormekCalc3 - Advanced grinding calculator
Post by: RickKrung on November 08, 2022, 06:55:04 PM
Sure should be the same.  That is the whole point and beauty.  Frees one from so many variables and sources of error and significantly reduces setup/adjustment times. 

Rick