Tormek Community Forum

In the Shop => Knife Sharpening => Topic started by: Josu V on December 30, 2019, 06:51:36 PM

Title: BESS Tester
Post by: Josu V on December 30, 2019, 06:51:36 PM
Hi!!

I took time thinking of buying one PT-50B BESS Tester.

My customers don´t demand me BESS score information. I use indirect metods to calibrate the sharpening (slice of paper, cut hair on air, etc...); but I have a lot of curiosity about the BESS score I get on different knives
Does any one knows if there is an official importer of BESS tester in Europe???

I can buy it in USA, but the custom costs are very high, and I also think in possible repair or warranty...

Can anybody help me?

Thank you very much
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Even on December 30, 2019, 09:45:47 PM
Hello.
I ordered directly from edgeonup, and got it delivered to Norway with no problem
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: RickKrung on December 31, 2019, 05:18:01 AM
Are you familiar with the BESS Exchange?
http://bessex.com/forum/ (http://bessex.com/forum/)

A lot of outstanding information and people there. It was founded and is administered by the owner of EdgeOnUp, Mike Brubacher.  Great guy, very approachable and entertaining.

As Evan says, they can be ordered directly, but I also know they are sold by Amazon.  Maybe there is an EU version of Amazon where you can get one. 

While your customers don't know they want you to have a BESS tester, they will know that you produce sharper, more consistent edges once you have one.  I recommend you read post #18 in this thread on the BESS Exchange, by grepper, extolling the virtues and benefits of using a BESS tester.  I could not say it this well, but then grepper is a much more experienced and better sharpener than I.

I also recommend (to all) that you get one of these 60X hand microscopes https://www.amazon.com/KINGMAS-Microscope-Magnifier-Universal-Smartphones/dp/B00PQ9XV2E (https://www.amazon.com/KINGMAS-Microscope-Magnifier-Universal-Smartphones/dp/B00PQ9XV2E).  A very recently deceased BESSEX and Tormek forum member, Mark Reich, turned me on to them over a year ago.  Besides the BESS tester, it is the single most valuable tool I use for assessing progress and condition of edges during sharpening.  I examine the entire length of every edge, multiple times. I am able to see burrs long before I can feel them. 

I've used these without the clip on holder mostly.  I only recently discovered the clip on thing.  It actually works for taking photos, which surprised the heck out of me. 

Here are two photos I took using it, using the clip on holder.  One is of a nick on the apex of my Leatherman tool and the other are the 1mm hash marks on my Mitutoyo digital calipers. 

Rick
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: EOU on January 02, 2020, 04:56:36 PM
Sorry for the delay in responding directly to your question Josu V but it took a bit to pass muster with the Tormek Forum. Your post comes to us via one of our customers and a Tormek Forum participant. It is a simple matter for us to service Europe directly and to do so at a savings to the customer. There is little to be saved in customs duties, VAT etc. by establishing a distributor there because the distributor must pay the same duties and taxes as well. Of course those fees are added to the price of the product. We charge only $35.00 for air freight to Europe. Tell us via email which products you wish (and shipping instructions) to order and we will forward a proforma invoice and upon approval by you - we follow with a PCI compliant credit card invoice via email to you. Takes about 5 days to get to most European countries.

We apologize in advance to Tormek and the members of this forum for this commercial announcement but hope that you understand that we are attempting here  to provide answers that Josu V and others may be interested in.

Mike Brubacher (mikeb@edgeonup.com)
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: RickKrung on January 02, 2020, 05:48:21 PM
Mike,

Great to hear from you directly on this forum.  Thank you for answering Josu's question directly. I welcome your participation here, even though you are a commercial vendor.  I hope you will monitor the at least the knife sharpening forum, where the tester is most often discussed.  I know you participate on the BESSEX with very little commercial bias.  I commend you for that.  I hope your busy life allows you to "pop in" here occasionally. 

For the record here, Mike is a very knowledgeable and friendly fellow.  I enjoy his contributions on the BESSEX.  Mike is very approachable and will answer you questions in the same informative manner as he has done with Josu's.  He provided a direct email so, if you feel you do not want to ask commercial content on the forum, I know he will respond to direct email.  I've done it a good bit in the past. 

I also highly recommend that, if interested in knife sharpening matters beyond Tormek, the BESSEX is a great forum.  That is another way to interact with Mike, as he is a frequent poster there. Several of our fellow Tormek members are regular participants as well. 
http://bessex.com/forum/ (http://bessex.com/forum/)

Rick
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Josu V on January 02, 2020, 05:58:41 PM
Quote from: Even on December 30, 2019, 09:45:47 PM
Hello.
I ordered directly from edgeonup, and got it delivered to Norway with no problem

Thanks for your answer Even :)

Quote from: RickKrung on December 31, 2019, 05:18:01 AM
Are you familiar with the BESS Exchange?
http://bessex.com/forum/ (http://bessex.com/forum/)

A lot of outstanding information and people there. It was founded and is administered by the owner of EdgeOnUp, Mike Brubacher.  Great guy, very approachable and entertaining.

As Evan says, they can be ordered directly, but I also know they are sold by Amazon.  Maybe there is an EU version of Amazon where you can get one. 

While your customers don't know they want you to have a BESS tester, they will know that you produce sharper, more consistent edges once you have one.  I recommend you read post #18 in this thread on the BESS Exchange, by grepper, extolling the virtues and benefits of using a BESS tester.  I could not say it this well, but then grepper is a much more experienced and better sharpener than I.

I also recommend (to all) that you get one of these 60X hand microscopes https://www.amazon.com/KINGMAS-Microscope-Magnifier-Universal-Smartphones/dp/B00PQ9XV2E (https://www.amazon.com/KINGMAS-Microscope-Magnifier-Universal-Smartphones/dp/B00PQ9XV2E).  A very recently deceased BESSEX and Tormek forum member, Mark Reich, turned me on to them over a year ago.  Besides the BESS tester, it is the single most valuable tool I use for assessing progress and condition of edges during sharpening.  I examine the entire length of every edge, multiple times. I am able to see burrs long before I can feel them. 

I've used these without the clip on holder mostly.  I only recently discovered the clip on thing.  It actually works for taking photos, which surprised the heck out of me. 

Here are two photos I took using it, using the clip on holder.  One is of a nick on the apex of my Leatherman tool and the other are the 1mm hash marks on my Mitutoyo digital calipers. 

Rick

Hi Rick. Thank you very much for your answer too.

I know the EdgeOnUp forums. I read in this forum every week, and I agree with you about the very interesting topics discussed there.
I also like to find regular people in this forum.

Casually,, I have the same microscope. It cost me $ 2 and has become one of my usual tools. Highly recommended. :)

Quote from: RickKrung on January 02, 2020, 05:48:21 PM
Mike,

Great to hear from you directly on this forum.  Thank you for answering Josu's question directly. I welcome your participation here, even though you are a commercial vendor.  I hope you will monitor the at least the knife sharpening forum, where the tester is most often discussed.  I know you participate on the BESSEX with very little commercial bias.  I commend you for that.  I hope your busy life allows you to "pop in" here occasionally. 

For the record here, Mike is a very knowledgeable and friendly fellow.  I enjoy his contributions on the BESSEX.  Mike is very approachable and will answer you questions in the same informative manner as he has done with Josu's.  He provided a direct email so, if you feel you do not want to ask commercial content on the forum, I know he will respond to direct email.  I've done it a good bit in the past. 

I also highly recommend that, if interested in knife sharpening matters beyond Tormek, the BESSEX is a great forum.  That is another way to interact with Mike, as he is a frequent poster there. Several of our fellow Tormek members are regular participants as well. 
http://bessex.com/forum/ (http://bessex.com/forum/)

Rick

Hello Mr. Mike

Thank you very much for write directly in this thread; It is very nice of you.

My next steep is to send an email to you and talk about this theme in private mode.
Bess Tester will be my next tool.

Thank you very much to all for your attention.


Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Hannsi1957 on January 13, 2020, 06:51:19 PM
i have the tester since a few month.

best decision ever
finally a comprehensible sharpnestest
because of same prerequisites for everyone results are comparable

cheers Hanns
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Ken S on January 13, 2020, 07:47:16 PM
Add me to the BESS fan club. Mike, you have given knife sharpeners some fine measuring instruments!

Ken
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: bill clancy on January 28, 2020, 06:59:33 AM
I'm a fan of the BESS tester too! It seems to be the best way to objectively test sharpness. My favorite is to test a knife dull, then after I've worked it over. I'ts all about the delta!
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Josu V on January 28, 2020, 08:49:44 PM
Reading your answers, I´m starting to be impatient...

In this moments, the Bess Tester PT50 is in Spain´s Customs  ???
Hopefully it doesn't cost me too much money.

Regards
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: casher50 on January 29, 2020, 12:48:24 AM
I also am a BESS fan. I have a PT-50A and use it often. I have found that checking each blade in between 3 and 5 spots on the blade (tip, half way to center, center, halfway to heel and heel) and averaging the results gives me a better idea of overall sharpness and helps identify problems. Testing blades that are 3 inches or so long I only check the tip, center and heel.
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: RickKrung on January 29, 2020, 05:25:29 AM
Quote from: casher50 on January 29, 2020, 12:48:24 AM
I also am a BESS fan. I have a PT-50A and use it often. I have found that checking each blade in between 3 and 5 spots on the blade (tip, half way to center, center, halfway to heel and heel) and averaging the results gives me a better idea of overall sharpness and helps identify problems. Testing blades that are 3 inches or so long I only check the tip, center and heel.

Hmm, five test locations seems like overkill to me and wasteful of the test media.  I only do the three, no matter how long the knife is. 

But...  I also visually inspect the entire bevel on each side with the Kingmas 60X hand microscope https://www.amazon.com/KINGMAS-Microscope-Magnifier-Universal-Smartphones/dp/B00PQ9XV2E (https://www.amazon.com/KINGMAS-Microscope-Magnifier-Universal-Smartphones/dp/B00PQ9XV2E)

The ones I first used did not have the clip-on attachment and that is still the way I use them.  I have taken some surprisingly detailed and clear photos using the clip-on thingy on my iPhone, however, so it does have some utility.  The photo of the knife edge is self explanatory.  The second photo is of the 1mm graduations on my Mitutoyo digital calipers.  For such a cheap (in all regards) device, it takes very very surprisingly good photos. 

Possibly, the reason I feel comfortable with just three BESS readings is that I have visually inspected the entire bevel on each side and feel the three readings are representative enough. 

Rick
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: smurfs on January 29, 2020, 09:57:43 AM
Quote from: Josu V on January 28, 2020, 08:49:44 PM
Reading your answers, I´m starting to be impatient...

In this moments, the Bess Tester PT50 is in Spain´s Customs  ???
Hopefully it doesn't cost me too much money.

Regards

Josu,

I have read numerous articles about the problems people experience with Spanish customs. Hopefully I am not misquoting but I read some 800-900 thousand parcels from the US and China (main imports from outside the EU) go unclaimed every year due to them getting lost in the system, overbearing bureaucracy, systems that don't work and people just giving up. To me it seems like a 'legalised' shake down to extract every cent due, even when the value of goods is under the duty free threshold.

If there was ever a reason to set up an EU distributor (outside of Spain) for BESS machines and consumables, this would be it.

I feel your pain.

Smurfs

Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: jvh on January 29, 2020, 09:09:00 PM
Quote from: RickKrung on January 29, 2020, 05:25:29 AM
Quote from: casher50 on January 29, 2020, 12:48:24 AM
I also am a BESS fan. I have a PT-50A and use it often. I have found that checking each blade in between 3 and 5 spots on the blade (tip, half way to center, center, halfway to heel and heel) and averaging the results gives me a better idea of overall sharpness and helps identify problems. Testing blades that are 3 inches or so long I only check the tip, center and heel.

Hmm, five test locations seems like overkill to me and wasteful of the test media.  I only do the three, no matter how long the knife is. 


Hi,

just a question... did anybody try another testing media? I mean eg. fishing line for multi-point edge testing, not for final sharpness test.


Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: cbwx34 on January 29, 2020, 09:13:27 PM
Quote from: jvh on January 29, 2020, 09:09:00 PM
Hi,

just a question... did anybody try another testing media? I mean eg. fishing line for multi-point edge testing, not for final sharpness test.

https://www.australianbladeforums.com/vb4/knife-grinders/39974-replacement-bess-certified-test-media.html
:)
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: MikeK on January 30, 2020, 06:53:35 AM
I was considering ordering the PT-50A, but the ecommerce link (https://squareup.com/store/EOUPurchase) on the edgeonup website returns a "Page Not Found" error for me.  I would appreciate it if someone could verify that this link works, as it might be due to a block of European IP addresses.
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: RickKrung on January 30, 2020, 07:04:08 AM
In post #3 of THIS thread, Mike Brubacher, owner of Edge-On-UP provide his direct email address so that questions of any sort could be sent directly to him.  I think this matter deserves such an action.

Rick
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: MikeK on January 30, 2020, 08:40:09 AM
Thanks, Rick.  I sent an email to Mike before I posted here.  I hoped someone would be able to test the ecommerce link to see if it worked for them.  If so, then this would rule out a bad link and would likely indicate a problem with European IP addresses.  Not to jump to conclusions yet, but some U.S. vendors block European IP addresses because of the GDPR compliance requirements.  It seems to be easier to block than conform.
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Ken S on January 30, 2020, 10:52:04 AM
Hi, Mike K.
I had the same page not found redirected message from Ohio USA. Mike Brubacher is a longtime friend and a friend of the forum. Here is his reply to my email:

Thanks for looking out for me Ken - much appreciated. This guy did email me and I responded to him. I'm in India right now and our online store is closed until mid next week but do not understand the page not found thing and won't until I return next week. Could you cover me with a post on Tormek letting them know that I'm on it? I just hate people thinking that we might be unresponsive to these sorts of issues.

Thanks,

Mike
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: MikeK on January 30, 2020, 03:39:51 PM
Thanks, Ken!  I received an email from Mike and will wait until he returns. I'm not in a hurry.
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Josu V on February 02, 2020, 12:03:06 PM

Hi.
Normally there is no problems with Spanish customs... (normally)

Sincerely, my only one problem is the money that I must pay in customs...
Taxes: 21% (IVA), Customs Tariff: between 10 to 20%, Customs Clearance 15 to 35€. All taxes are applied to value of product and value of shipping.

Any case, probably next week, the PT50A will be in my hands  :) .

Regards
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: john.jcb on February 02, 2020, 04:00:07 PM
Quote from: Josu V on February 02, 2020, 12:03:06 PM

Hi.
Normally there is no problems with Spanish customs... (normally)

Sincerely, my only one problem is the money that I must pay in customs...
Taxes: 21% (IVA), Customs Tariff: between 10 to 20%, Customs Clearance 15 to 35€. All taxes are applied to value of product and value of shipping.

Any case, probably next week, the PT50A will be in my hands  :) .

Regards

I thought taxes in Illinois were excessive.
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: kwakster on February 02, 2020, 04:48:37 PM
Europe is worse.
Many countries within the EU are basically communist disguised as democracies.
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Oldhand on February 03, 2020, 08:46:46 AM
The only other thing I'd add, is especially if shipping is an issue, you're going to get 300+ tests out of a single roll of their test material (this is from memory, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - if I recall, 300 is on the conservative side). Judge what you think you'll need in an appropriate amount of time and order enough to get you by. Shipping could be more than the reasonably priced spools.
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Josu V on February 05, 2020, 04:34:06 PM

Quote from: Oldhand on February 03, 2020, 08:46:46 AM
The only other thing I'd add, is especially if shipping is an issue, you're going to get 300+ tests out of a single roll of their test material (this is from memory, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - if I recall, 300 is on the conservative side). Judge what you think you'll need in an appropriate amount of time and order enough to get you by. Shipping could be more than the reasonably priced spools.

Oh, yes. I have ordered one unit of PT50A and one TM02 Tests Media canister.
Your memory is good. Test media canister have test media for, about, 325 tests.

I will keep informing  ;D

Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Josu V on March 04, 2020, 07:02:22 PM
At Last !!!!



The past week, the Bess Tester arrived.
Definitively, Spanish Customs do not have shame... But, better to forget.

The Bess Tester is in my hands, and today i had the oportunity of use it.
Three or four times have get the correct use of the way to change the  test thread. The first time I put the thread,  it was very loose. But finally, I obtained the perfect tension.
I used a Gillette Razor blade to test the tension. A little bit of practice is necessary.

Today I compared one mainstream knife in very bad state (917 Bess score) before an after and finally obtained a small smile  ;D

Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: john.jcb on March 04, 2020, 07:30:56 PM
Josh

Here is a video that may be of interest to you. It is a simple DIY device for getting repeatable tension on the cord. A side benefit is that it reduces the cord you use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO7m-h-oOCQ
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: van on March 04, 2020, 09:08:58 PM
Hi Josu V,
Why did you choose the PT-50A instead of the PT-50B perhaps the degree of resolution? or other.
Regards
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Ken S on March 04, 2020, 11:41:40 PM
My BESS tester is the PT50, an earlier version of the PT50B. For my use, it is quite adequate.I have no wish to replace it, however, if I was buying one today, although the PT50B is very adequate, I would opt for the PT50A with its more sensitive reading scale.

Ken
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Josu V on March 08, 2020, 10:29:24 AM
Quote from: john.jcb on March 04, 2020, 07:30:56 PM
Josh

Here is a video that may be of interest to you. It is a simple DIY device for getting repeatable tension on the cord. A side benefit is that it reduces the cord you use.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yO7m-h-oOCQ

Thank you John. Very interesting idea and very simple. With this system you can wing 10 or 20% more tests that if you put the thread with your fingers...

Quote from: van on March 04, 2020, 09:08:58 PM
Hi Josu V,
Why did you choose the PT-50A instead of the PT-50B perhaps the degree of resolution? or other.
Regards

Hi Van. The resolution was not the reason of choose A model. Only two points of resolution I think may not be the reason to buy A model.
I think that the correction made by the Bess Tester is two points up or down. Two points are cero and three points are Five in B model (I think...)

The difference is in refresh rate. The PT50 A model reads the weight 25 times per second (PT50 B model, do 10 tps). This, eliminate the possibility of read error if the knife falls very quickly.

Quote from: Ken S on March 04, 2020, 11:41:40 PM
My BESS tester is the PT50, an earlier version of the PT50B. For my use, it is quite adequate.I have no wish to replace it, however, if I was buying one today, although the PT50B is very adequate, I would opt for the PT50A with its more sensitive reading scale.

Ken

As you can see, this time I don´t exactly agree with you  ;D.

Only two gr is the difference between real score and displayed score in PT50 B model. When PT50 B show score of 100, you know that the maximum difference with the real score can be 2 points. Really don´t know if the score is lower or higher than the real, but never may be greater than 2.
I think that is more interesting the refresh rate difference between this models.

Other reason to buy A model is... a little whim  ;D

Regards
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: van on March 19, 2020, 07:52:14 PM
Hello,
can you tell me the site where to buy a BESS PT-50B and related accessories?
Thank you
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Ken S on March 19, 2020, 08:13:56 PM
Check with their website, edgeonup.com

Ken
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: van on March 19, 2020, 08:16:35 PM
OK thanks
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Fluehue on March 21, 2020, 09:21:15 AM
I live in Norway and would love to get to try this device. Is there anyone here that lives in Norway that I could contact?
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: RickKrung on March 21, 2020, 02:14:45 PM
Quote from: Fluehue on March 21, 2020, 09:21:15 AM
I live in Norway and would love to get to try this device. Is there anyone here that lives in Norway that I could contact?

I think you should contact Mike Brubacher at Edge On Up, directly (Mike Brubacher (<mikeb@edgeonup.com>) ).  I know folks in the EU have purchased them, but through normal channels, possibly even directly from EOU (https://www.edgeonup.com/). 

Rick

Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Josu V on March 21, 2020, 04:58:39 PM
You can send an email to Mike Brubacher, and he will tell you everything you need to buy the products you need.

Very good person A long time ago, he contacted me and provided me with everything necessary to make the purchase.
In my case, the process takes a long time, but the problem was located in the Spanish Customs. Mike did your job very well and quickly.

Regards.
Title: Re: BESS Tester
Post by: Fluehue on April 17, 2020, 11:28:34 PM
Quote from: Josu V on March 21, 2020, 04:58:39 PM
You can send an email to Mike Brubacher, and he will tell you everything you need to buy the products you need.

Very good person A long time ago, he contacted me and provided me with everything necessary to make the purchase.
In my case, the process takes a long time, but the problem was located in the Spanish Customs. Mike did your job very well and quickly.

Regards.

Thank you :)