Quote from: RickKrung on September 29, 2018, 01:23:10 AM
...snip...
On the T8, the platform is a little over 45mm away from the left edge of the grinding wheel. I think this is too close as the DBS sliding platform tends to tilt as it extends out over thin air on the left side of the fixed platform. I find that I have to pay special attention to preventing this tilting as it can mess up the facet grinds.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3750.0;attach=2635)
...snip...
Rick
I commented previously about the position of the DBS-22 Base Plate being too far to the right on the USB, allowing for tilting of the drill bit holder at the left extreme of travel during grinding. Even being aware of it and trying to not allow it to tilt, the pressure of trying to hold the bit holder firmly down while sliding inevitably led to tilting. I decided to take care of that today. I cut and milled out a section of the left side of the USB sleeve from the Base Plate.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2653)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2655)
It allows the Base Plate to be positioned about 32mm further to the left.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2657)
Providing full support for the drill bit holder when the drill point has reached the left edge of the grinding wheel. I haven't used it yet, but feel confident that I'll be able to slide comfortably without risk of tilting any more.
Rick
Nice ! I like it !
Rich
Clever, Rick.
I have often commented that I consider the DBS-22 to be Tormek's most advanced jig. I think you may have improved it.
Please keep us posted with your user reports.
I predict that my DBS-22 will be on my to do list for my local machinist.
keep up the good work!
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on October 01, 2018, 02:51:01 AM
Clever, Rick.
...snip...
I predict that my DBS-22 will be on my to do list for my local machinist.
keep up the good work!
Ken
Save the machinist for something you really need one for. This one I think anyone with a hacksaw and a file (and/or sander) can do. It is only a matter of hacksawing out a section, at least an inch long and cleaning up with a file. A sander would be handy to rapidly take off extra stock not gotten by the saw and finishing off with a file. I could post a drawing, but I think this photo shows it well enough.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2663)
Rick
Good thought, Rick. Also, I want to compare the amounts to be removed for both the T7/8 and T4.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on October 01, 2018, 04:33:07 AM
Good thought, Rick. Also, I want to compare the amounts to be removed for both the T7/8 and T4.
Ken
I don't have access to either the T7 or T4, but I cannot see what difference it makes. I've put the modified Base Plate on my BGM rigged 8" bench grinder and it all looks good.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2665)
I also put it on the T8 with the "less than" 8" 3X wheel and it all looks good.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2667)
With how I modified the base plate, there is a little over 4mm clearance with the USB. I think it is more about clearance for the underside of the base plate with the legs of the USB. Where that clearance is needed is different between the BGM and the T8/7/4s because on the former, the USB legs are vertical and the latter horizontal. I think the T4 would have to differ quite a bit to require much different in how the base plate is modified.
Rick
Rick, I measured the distance between the outer surface of the usb threaded vertical leg and the inner edge of the grinding wheel with the T4 and T7. The T4 is slightly less, 29mm with the SG-200, and about the same 32mm with the DC-200 coarse diamond wheel. The T7, as expected, is the same as the T8. I would be happy with your 32mm with any of them.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on October 01, 2018, 04:21:47 PM
Rick, I measured the distance between the outer surface of the usb threaded vertical leg and the inner edge of the grinding wheel with the T4 and T7. The T4 is slightly less, 29mm with the SG-200, and about the same 32mm with the DC-200 coarse diamond wheel. The T7, as expected, is the same as the T8. I would be happy with your 32mm with any of them.
Ken
With the T4, the Base Plate is 3mm more to the right (closer to the edge of the wheel) than the T7/8, removal of part of the USB sleeve is that much more valuable, IMHO.
Rick
Quote from: Ken S on October 01, 2018, 02:51:01 AM
...snip...
I have often commented that I consider the DBS-22 to be Tormek's most advanced jig. I think you may have improved it.
Please keep us posted with your user reports.
...snip...
I can definitively say that the Base Plate mod has proven its worth.
I ran some trials this morning, using the modified Base Plate with the DBS-22 on my Rikon 8" bench grinder with the BGM-100 USB setups, coarse and fine white grind stones and the T8 with the DC, DF and DE diamond grinding wheels. In every instance, when sliding the Drill Holder on the Slider Plate, there was not the slightest hint of tilting. I quickly forgot about that and was able to focus entirely on what was happening at the drill/stone interface. The entire jig worked as easily and smoothly on the Rikon as it does on the Tormek. Grinding of the facets was very quick with the Rikon.
For setting of the primary facet angle using the Angle Setter, I found it most effective to hold the Setter in my right hand up against the wheel and grip the knob with my left hand and support the plate/assembly with the back of my left hand. This allowed me to firmly keep both corners of the setter firmly on the wheel and rotate the plate assembly up to meet the bottom edge of the Setter and lock the angle in place.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2669)
I took a photo of each finished drill point, showing the primary and secondary facets and attempted to get the light to reflect so the nature of the grind finish could be seen. You can be the judge of how successful that effort was. I started with the Rikon coarse and ground each one in succession. For each new wheel, I reset the drill bit in the holder, resetting the rotational orientation and the projection.
Rikon coarse wheel.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2671)
Rikon fine wheel.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2673)
T8 DC.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2675)
T8 DF.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2677)
T8 DE. Two images of this one.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2679)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2681)
All grind stones produced usable finishes, except perhaps the DC. All were superior to the Drill Doctor that I tried in early summer 2017, just before buying the T8.
I think the Rikon Fine and the DF are very comparable and I would be satisfied with either for general purpose drills. Given how easy and quick the Rikon was to use, it may become my Go To unless I really feel the need to put a finer finish, in which case I'd use the DE. I have not tried using just the Rikon Fine (without having first established the facets on the Rikon Coarse stone). I have also not tried going directly from the Rikon Fine to the DE to find out if that is all that is necessary, in the hope of eliminating intermediate steps.
Rick
Rick,
My DBS-22 base is now back from my local machine shop. It is modified like yours. I am anxious to try it.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on October 22, 2018, 06:04:16 PM
Tick,
My DBS-22 base is now back from my local machine shop. It is modified like yours. I am anxious to try it.
Ken
And we (I at least) are anxious to hear and SEE how it goes for you. Keep in mind that tip about rotating smaller drill bits CCW a little and stopping grinding when the primary facet lip is lined up with the lines on the jig. I haven't tried that yet as I haven't done any more drill sharpening again, but that is one thing I am anxious to try.
Also, I found it interesting, but not surprising, that Glenn Lucas likes and uses the DBS-22 for sharpening his drill bits.
Rick
Rick,
Like you, I think the idea of rotating the bits a little bit CCW has promise, the amount maybe depending on how dull the bit is.
An interesting comment on one of his DVDs by Glenn Lucas. Glenn mentioned having an engineer's lathe in the next building. It looked like a heavy duty machine shop lathe. It doesn't look like Glenn just tinkers in his handyman basement workshop.I think his comments about the Tormek indicate a real understanding of it and long experience. I find his DVDs both informative and refreshing.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on October 22, 2018, 07:25:54 PM
Rick,
...snip...
An interesting comment on one of his DVDs by Glenn Lucas. Glenn mentioned having an engineer's lathe in the next building. It looked like a heavy duty machine shop lathe. It doesn't look like Glenn just tinkers in his handyman basement workshop.I think his comments about the Tormek indicate a real understanding of it and long experience. I find his DVDs both informative and refreshing.
Ken
Ken,
I would like to see that DVD. Is it one available online or are you viewing one you have obtained from Glenn? Just this morning, following your lead, I found a YT site with his videos. I am not a wood turner, but given my proclivities, it isn't out of the realm. Is that video among those on this site (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moAph3cu0bs&list=PLuJRSLgVVuRl75JXYOXD8Oh-qJB3viEWY)?
I have a nearly life-time friend who is a very hardworking cow farmer over in the Willamette Valley here in Oregon (I say "farmer" as his isn't a "ranch" but a farm) who, also just this morning, I emailed some links to Glenn's videos. He doesn't have much time for turning but he has a very nice, vintage Powermatic wood lathe. I visited him and his wife last spring and did a bunch of sharpening for them, including some of his wood turning tools. I am hoping he can make the time to watch some of the videos. If nothing else, maybe he can voyeur-istically enjoy some wood turning.
Rick
Rick,
This Glenn Lucas DVD is one, to quote you, where we must pay a fair price for good oats.
Here is a link:
https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p/99/6693/Glenn-Lucas-Woodturning-Mastering-Woodturning-Dublin-Viking-Bowl-DVD
One of the things which motivated me to take up turning was this charming bowl. Being based on a thousand year old Viking bowl has a mystique. So does the design. It fits the hand well. I like the single bead. It is beyond my present skill level, however, I am working to correct that deficiency. The DVD is from 2015, when the SVD-186 gouge jig was first available. The included review is quite perceptive. I find the DVD fascinating on many levels. My one regret is that is predates the Tormek diamond wheels.
Incidentally, in Glenn's ezine that AKMike linked, Glenn states that his first choice among the three diamond wheels for turners is the DE-250, the 1200 grit wheel. He also speaks well of the DC-250 360 grit wheel for reshaping. I have reshaped a skew with the DC. The process was not fast, however, progress was steady and satisfying.
I purchased four of Glenn's videos, and would recommend all of them. Like the Tormek turner's DVD, they are long enough to go into very good detail. With videos of this caliber, I continue to learn through several viewings.
Ken
I did it like this.
And made a slot in the plate so the sliding plate dont come loose..
Since I had my plate modified to Rick's specs, I obviously think it is a good idea.
What puzzles me is not knowing if the Tormek engineers were not aware of the modification , or whether they considered that possibility and felt they had a good reason for not doing it. I wish we had better communication with Tormek. This kind of question comes up infrequently. It would be nice to have authoritative answers from the factory team. I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask several staff members to include the forum with their Internet favorites. One click once a day would show if there was any forum activity. On days with no activity (about half the days) a staffer could be in and out in only a few seconds. Even on the occasional post needing an answer, the time involved would be minimal.
Ken
After working on a different project and completing it I got to focus on this, I don't have a milling machine but I have a Number 10 Dumore Die grinder. Sharpie layout, a few drill holes to remove some bulk and lubricant for a 1/2 inch burr and some elbow grease. One modification not shown is this T8 can run off a foot switch when needed.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hbi1lyc33r3h5k6/DBS22%20Mod.jpg?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/hbi1lyc33r3h5k6/DBS22%20Mod.jpg?dl=0)
Nicely done! Clever.
Ken
At first I could not understand the why for the mod. At first I thought Tormek may have changed the dimensions of the base plate. I was wrong. I looked again carefully as to the reason for the mod. Before the mod the movable portion of the Jig over runs to base plate. With the mod the movable portion of the Jig is more balanced on the base plate. So it looks like I will have to do this modification to balance to movable portion on the static baseplate.
This is just a wonderful piece of kit and while it works very well the way it is, this mod should make the overall balance and the resulting grind a much more smooth operation and keep more of the movable portion operating on the centre of the baseplate.
Thanks again to everyone who share their experience to make our lives easier.
How ever My thought is why does Tormek not make the base plate a little wider and modify the mount to allow for the shifting of the baseplate so the grinding operation stays dead centre on the baseplate centred on the Grinding wheel.
Thanks for Listening.
I, too, have noticed the tendency to tilt; the amount of this depends on the point angle of the drill but I have only used 118 degrees so far.
To remove as much 32 mm seems at first sight a bit drastic but I assume that those who have done this have experienced no problem; the Tormek wedging arrangement is, of course, very stable.
Looking at my old SG 2000 with this in mind, it occurred to me that the screwed-on horizontal base could be shifted a few mm to the left to achieve something of the same effect.
With a BGM-type arrangement, of course, the support can be as far from the wheel as the user chooses to make it.
Based on Rick's suggestion, I took my DBS-22 to my local machine shop for modification. I think it is an improvement and I have had no problems with my modified jig.
I have also ground off a small area of my SVM-45 knife jig to allow it to clear the support bar when used in the horizontal position. (No criticism of Tormek intended; they recommend using the vertical position which works fine as is.)
The Tormek is a fine, versatile machine which can sometimes benefit from some tweaking.
Ken
Quote from: RickKrung on September 30, 2018, 11:55:14 PM
Quote from: RickKrung on September 29, 2018, 01:23:10 AM
...snip...
On the T8, the platform is a little over 45mm away from the left edge of the grinding wheel. I think this is too close as the DBS sliding platform tends to tilt as it extends out over thin air on the left side of the fixed platform. I find that I have to pay special attention to preventing this tilting as it can mess up the facet grinds.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3750.0;attach=2635)
...snip...
Rick
I commented previously about the position of the DBS-22 Base Plate being too far to the right on the USB, allowing for tilting of the drill bit holder at the left extreme of travel during grinding. Even being aware of it and trying to not allow it to tilt, the pressure of trying to hold the bit holder firmly down while sliding inevitably led to tilting. I decided to take care of that today. I cut and milled out a section of the left side of the USB sleeve from the Base Plate.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2653)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2655)
It allows the Base Plate to be positioned about 32mm further to the left.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3755.0;attach=2657)
Providing full support for the drill bit holder when the drill point has reached the left edge of the grinding wheel. I haven't used it yet, but feel confident that I'll be able to slide comfortably without risk of tilting any more.
I did the same with mine today Rick, just using a hacksaw and file to smooth the saw marks. Took 20-30 minutes and I can say it improved the stability if the slider in the base plate 100%! Rather than removing a piece of the base plate sleeve, Tormek should leave the sleeve the same length and modify the position the base plate sits, relative to the stone. With larger drill bits that require more grinding pressure, this modification is almost mandatory! Well done Rick!
Quote from: Bomb49 on January 04, 2021, 08:28:40 AM
I did the same with mine today Rick, just using a hacksaw and file to smooth the saw marks. Took 20-30 minutes and I can say it improved the stability if the slider in the base plate 100%! Rather than removing a piece of the base plate sleeve, Tormek should leave the sleeve the same length and modify the position the base plate sits, relative to the stone. With larger drill bits that require more grinding pressure, this modification is almost mandatory! Well done Rick!
Very glad it works for you and I am glad it's been done with just a hacksaw and file. Please post a photo(s). Even though it may not be as pretty as machined mods, it would still be interesting and supportive of those who might want to do the mod but are dissuaded by the idea of using these simple but highly functional tools. Remember that in the "old days", apprentice machinists were required to demonstrate high levels of skill with files before they could progress to mechanized machining.
Rick
I just wanted to chime in on these old posts about modifying the DBS-22 Base Plate. After sharpening over 100 drill bits and having issues with the left side tipping I read about this modification. I cut off 1" using a hacksaw and finishing it with a die grinder and wish I had done this long time ago. I am now really happy with the DBS-22. If you haven't done it yet, I do recommend this mod.