Hi everyone,
New member here. I purchased a used Tormek T-2000 this week and have been spending a lot of time reading forum posts and watching videos about it's use, but I'd really like some advice regarding the leather stroping/honing wheel. I think the machine has been sitting unused for many years and the leather wheel looks very dry. From what I've been read here , it is generally recommended to add oil to the wheel once when it is new and then never again. But what about a wheel that hasn't been used in a long time? Should it be re-oiled? I don't even know if it ever was oiled. If I'm adding new oil, should I do anything else to the wheel first?
Thank in advance for any advice and I'm sorry if this has already been dealt with in other posts. I've searched the forums and couldn't find anything that addressed this specific issue. I've posted a few pics of the machine and wheel below so you can get a better idea of the condition.
(https://i.imgur.com/rp1iOcY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/0utLDaA.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/8zua8OI.jpg)
Quote from: canuck on November 23, 2017, 06:51:55 PM
Hi everyone,
New member here. I purchased a used Tormek T-2000 this week and have been spending a lot of time reading forum posts and watching videos about it's use, but I'd really like some advice regarding the leather stroping/honing wheel. I think the machine has been sitting unused for many years and the leather wheel looks very dry. From what I've been read here , it is generally recommended to add oil to the wheel once when it is new and then never again. But what about a wheel that hasn't been used in a long time? Should it be re-oiled? If I'm adding new oil, should I do anything else to the wheel first?
Thank in advance for any advice and I'm sorry if this has already been dealt with in other posts. I've searched the forums and couldn't find anything that addressed this specific issue. I've posted a few pics of the machine and wheel below so you can get a better idea of the condition.
Nice looking machine.
Do you have the Tormek compound? It has oil in it. I would try that first. I learned (the hard way), the wheel can be "over oiled". From your pictures, the wheel looks in great shape. Only thing you might consider is maybe using a nylon brush on it first... just to make sure it doesn't have any dirt or debris in it.
I add Tormek compound by putting a bead around the wheel, then rubbing it in with an old toothbrush... seems to give it a good coat.
That's my .02. :)
Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have the Tormek compound, but I'm planning to order a tube. The only extra thing I got that's not in the pictures is the older square edge jig. So I need to order the AngleMaster and Stone Grader as well. I'd like to order the Hand Tool Kit, but I'm already stretching my budget. So I may hold off on that for awhile. My main goal right now is to sharpen a few chisels, and a bunch of hand planes I picked up at garage sales this summer.
Quote from: canuck on November 23, 2017, 07:36:15 PM
Thanks for the quick reply. I don't have the Tormek compound, but I'm planning to order a tube. The only extra thing I got that's not in the pictures is the older square edge jig. So I need to order the AngleMaster and Stone Grader as well. I'd like to order the Hand Tool Kit, but I'm already stretching my budget. So I may hold off on that for awhile. My main goal right now is to sharpen a few chisels, and a bunch of hand planes I picked up at garage sales this summer.
You're welcome. I would probably add the "Truing Tool" to your list... you'll need it at some point. I'm not into chisels and hand planes (I do knives), but my understanding is, things need to be kept "trued up" for those items.
If you don't already know... if you go to the Tormek main page (https://www.tormek.com), and register the machine (you should see a link under "My Tormek" at the top of the page), you can download the copy of the latest manual, and see some additional videos.
I second CB's comments, especially the truing tool. You are a special candidate for the Tips and Techniques topic locked at the top. (This is just my opinion; I know others will disagree.) You have a working Tormek and a square edge jig, and not much else. You do need the truing tool (the TT-50), the stone grader, a tube of PA-70 honing compound, and an Anglemaster. fortunately you do not presently own the hand tool kit. You have the opportunity to really learn how to use your Tormek by learning from a chisel. The other tools will soon follow.
Incidentally, again, just my opinion, I'm not a fan of kits. I think you would be farther ahead to buy the jigs you need when you need them. I have most of the Tormek jigs. Some of them I have never used. I have never purchased a kit. I do not have the axe jig because I do not have an axe. You will only need a scissors jig if you sharpen scissors. The regular knife jig will handle most knives. What you need next is skill. The rest will follow as needed.
Do keep us posted.
Ken
Canuck,
I agree with Ken. Buying jigs as you need them, spreads out the cost, and allows you to master each one before moving to another. (Plus, you can have a Tormek Christmas more often.)
I also own a Tormek T-2000 : owned it for 15 years now. And, like Ken, I have almost every jig. The ones I don't have aren't something I would use (I have no planer nor moulder, so I would not use those jigs).
The other things I recommend you add to your wish list are the MSK-250 Stainless Steel Shaft, & the US-105 Universal Support. Nice upgrades !
Rich
One of the problems with buying jigs you think you might use someday is that by the time you might get around to using them Tormek may have an improved version. A prime example of this is the 185 gouge jig. The 185 was the state of the art for many years. It is still as useful as it ever was, however, the new design, the 186, is markedly improved. After using both, I quickly concluded that the 186 was enough of an improvement to warrent replacing a working 185. It was more than a cosmetic makeover. Active turners who used the 185 did well. Those of us who bought the 185 to have on hand for possible future use were not so wise.
Ken
Thanks for the advice on the kits. I was looking at the price difference compared to buying the jigs separately, and it's really not much of a savings anyway. I'll probably start with the regular knife jig so I can do some kitchen knives.
I will order the "Truing Tool" as well, but maybe not this week. The wheel did have some issues when I bought it, but I was able to true the wheel with a modified T-bar style diamond dresser. I tried a few different ideas and techniques, but eventually got good results using the method pictured below. It may not be perfect, but I think it's pretty good and certainly much better than it was. The previous owner had ground something against the right edge of the wheel and there was an obvious bevel on that edge and a few high and low spots in the middle of the wheel.
I've got three 3/4" chisels of various ages and conditions lined up and ready to practice with. I also registered the machine and downloaded the latest manual. Thanks for the tip cbwx34.
You are off to a great start! I am especially impressed with your truing arrangement. Eventually you may want a TT-50, however, you have cleverly moved it from a must have item to a future maybe. You are developing a practical sense of your Tormek. Your three chisels will stand by you well in learning the sound and feel of your Tormek, as well as the basic skills. As much as I appreciate the newer models, your Tormek will give you fine service throughout your life. You will not outgrow it. As you read many of our posts, you will learn that the Tormek is both a solid machine and as versatile as the mind of the operator. Do not be hesitant to experiment.
Ken
Make sure you get the TT-50, not the TT-50U which comes without the diamond tip unless you already have it. See:
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2435.msg12248#msg12248
Excellent comment, Elden.
I made this mistake a couple years ago. I thought I had ruined my diamond. I thought I found a complete TT-50 for the price of just the replacement. The error was mine. I had read the lidting too quickly in my bargain fever. Fortunate, the dealer, Advanced Machinery, is reputable and settled fairly with me. It left a good feeling for them.
Wherever you choose, be sure to check with your national agent to learn the list price. There is much price gouging online. I have had a positive experience with Big Bear Tools and am a customer of several decades with Lee Valley. Canada is blessed with reliable Tormek dealers.
Ken
I had the same problem with the leather wheel when I bought my used T-2000 except that it was in much worse condition. I started by softening the leather with oil and let it set for several days. Then I turned the machine on and used a carbide paint scraper to scrape away the crust. I can't say that I got great results because the inside of the leather is pretty well dished out. But before I replace it, I'm going to turn an MDF disk on my lathe and see how that works with some green stropping compound on my chisels and plane irons.
Well, one thing for sure. You do not need help on how to post pictures! Great shots. There are many on this site that have a problem with that.
Quote from: turbettr on November 25, 2017, 05:42:24 AM
I had the same problem with the leather wheel when I bought my used T-2000 except that it was in much worse condition. I started by softening the leather with oil and let it set for several days. Then I turned the machine on and used a carbide paint scraper to scrape away the crust. I can't say that I got great results because the inside of the leather is pretty well dished out. But before I replace it, I'm going to turn an MDF disk on my lathe and see how that works with some green stropping compound on my chisels and plane irons.
Great minds seem to think alike, as i'm currently experimenting with an MDF ring over the leather honing wheel & 1.0 micron diamond compound.
You definitely need the truing tool. You really cannot get by without it. And the stone grader, too. You already have the square edge jig. Those three items came with the SuperGrind 2000 when it was new, and they are essential for good results.
Your truing method is a good substitute, but you will find yourself going through diamond graders frequently, and they won't go deep enough to give you a good truing. A slightly out-of-round grindstone will quickly go further out of round, and this is a frustration you don't need.
Quote from: jeffs55 on November 25, 2017, 10:26:23 AM
Well, one thing for sure. You do not need help on how to post pictures! Great shots. There are many on this site that have a problem with that.
Actually, he may need some help. Or maybe I do. I don't know how he got those pictures to upload, given there is a size limit of 256kb (or so). The first photo posted, when saved to my computer is 492kb and 1600x1200 pixels. Given those numbers, the photo is so huge, we only see half or less of it. Below is the same photo that I saved by download and resized to 640x480 and is 105kb. It shows the whole machines, not just the left side and honing wheel.
This is not a criticism, just an observation and comment. I, for one, would like to know how to post an image so that it shows full size rather than a thumbnail that must be clicked on to view effectively.
Rick
Rick,
I have a web site, and put all my Tormek forum pics in a folder there. Then, I can use standard HTML tags to do what you are asking.
I also use the width or height attributes on the picture also. This allows a full-sized picture to be displayed smaller, and enlarged when the picture is clicked on. An example is shown below (with spaces added to show the text correctly). The 300 refers to pixels.
An example is below :
[ IML width=300 ] (HTML link to the picture) [ / IML ]
Kind regards,
Rich
Quote from: RickKrung on November 27, 2017, 03:41:05 AM
I, for one, would like to know how to post an image so that it shows full size rather than a thumbnail that must be clicked on to view effectively.
Rick
He's using a 3rd party hosting site. imgur.com or imgbb.com are the two that I use. Don't use photobucket.
Once you load the image to the 3rd party site, you can then post a link in your post, and it will show up.
Using a 3rd party site to host "bypasses" the size limit... since you're not using the Tormek site to host the picture.
If you need more help, send me a PM.
CB and Rich,
Thanks Guys. I am aware of that process, just haven't been using it. Didn't know it skirts around the size limit, but it makes sense as the image is probably being viewed off the remote website.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on November 27, 2017, 03:41:05 AM
I, for one, would like to know how to post an image so that it shows full size rather than a thumbnail that must be clicked on to view effectively.
Rick
I missed the 2nd part of your request. If you don't want to use a 3rd party host, you can insert the images you attach to a Tormek post. You just have to modify your post, after you post it. ???
When you attach a picture and create a post, you'll notice that it creates a link. Copy this link. Then click on "Modify" for your post. Put the cursor in the location where you want to place the picture, then click on "Insert Image", and paste the link you copied earlier.
If you do it this way, you are restricted to the Tormek size limits, (and have to be logged in to see the pictures, just like you do for the attachment), but now your pictures appear in the post, and don't have to be clicked on to view.
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 27, 2017, 01:55:24 PM
Quote from: RickKrung on November 27, 2017, 03:41:05 AM
I, for one, would like to know how to post an image so that it shows full size rather than a thumbnail that must be clicked on to view effectively.
Rick
I missed the 2nd part of your request. If you don't want to use a 3rd party host, you can insert the images you attach to a Tormek post. You just have to modify your post, after you post it. ???
When you attach a picture and create a post, you'll notice that it creates a link. Copy this link. Then click on "Modify" for your post. Put the cursor in the location where you want to place the picture, then click on "Insert Image", and paste the link you copied earlier.
If you do it this way, you are restricted to the Tormek size limits, (and have to be logged in to see the pictures, just like you do for the attachment), but now your pictures appear in the post, and don't have to be clicked on to view.
Thanks, CB. I'll give it a whirl.
Rick
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 23, 2017, 07:10:45 PM
Do you have the Tormek compound? It has oil in it. I would try that first. I learned (the hard way), the wheel can be "over oiled". From your pictures, the wheel looks in great shape. Only thing you might consider is maybe using a nylon brush on it first... just to make sure it doesn't have any dirt or debris in it.
I add Tormek compound by putting a bead around the wheel, then rubbing it in with an old toothbrush... seems to give it a good coat.
That's my .02. :)
I received a package today with the Tormek honing compound, Angle Master, and the Stone Grader. I followed your advice and used a nylon brush to clean the wheel. Then I put a thin bead of compound down the middle of the wheel and rubbed it in with an old toothbrush, but the wheel still seemed really dry. I tried honing a chisel, and dust was flying off the wheel. So I added two more thin beads on the right and left of the wheel, but it still seems pretty dry and fuzzy, and dust still comes off when honing.
Should I consider adding some mineral oil now? If so, how much?
Thanks again for all the advice.
Quote from: RickKrung on November 27, 2017, 03:41:05 AM
Quote from: jeffs55 on November 25, 2017, 10:26:23 AM
Well, one thing for sure. You do not need help on how to post pictures! Great shots. There are many on this site that have a problem with that.
Actually, he may need some help. Or maybe I do. I don't know how he got those pictures to upload, given there is a size limit of 256kb (or so). The first photo posted, when saved to my computer is 492kb and 1600x1200 pixels. Given those numbers, the photo is so huge, we only see half or less of it. Below is the same photo that I saved by download and resized to 640x480 and is 105kb. It shows the whole machines, not just the left side and honing wheel.
This is not a criticism, just an observation and comment. I, for one, would like to know how to post an image so that it shows full size rather than a thumbnail that must be clicked on to view effectively.
Rick
Thanks for the compliment jeffs55. I used to work as a photographer and it's still one of my hobbies. Sorry about the big pics Rick. I work on a 27" iMac and 1600x1200 images look fine to me, but after my first post here I realized it was probably too big for a forum. On my next post I downsized to the forum limit of 1200 wide and in the future, I'll try to make sure they're sized appropriately so everyone can see the whole image without having to scroll.
Quote from: canuck on November 30, 2017, 05:32:22 AM
I received a package today with the Tormek honing compound, Angle Master, and the Stone Grader. I followed your advice and used a nylon brush to clean the wheel. Then I put a thin bead of compound down the middle of the wheel and rubbed it in with an old toothbrush, but the wheel still seemed really dry. I tried honing a chisel, and dust was flying off the wheel. So I added two more thin beads on the right and left of the wheel, but it still seems pretty dry and fuzzy, and dust still comes off when honing.
Should I consider adding some mineral oil now? If so, how much?
Thanks again for all the advice.
If you feel it needs it, I would just add a minimal amount... as in, add oil to a towel or cloth, and then hold it against a spinning wheel. If you apply it directly to the wheel... I would do a thin coat.
Also, not sure which mineral oil you're using... I've found the "drugstore" mineral oil to be thick and not that great for sharpening... doesn't seem to absorb well. A thinner oil worked better for me (I actually use a honing oil). Not sure what else would work.
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 30, 2017, 02:50:18 PM
Also, not sure which mineral oil you're using... I've found the "drugstore" mineral oil to be thick and not that great for sharpening... doesn't seem to absorb well. A thinner oil worked better for me (I actually use a honing oil). Not sure what else would work.
I don't have any mineral oil yet, but would probably buy it from the drugstore. The Tormek tube says to "impregnate the leather generously with light machine oil". I do have some 3-n-1 in the red and blue cans and I think I've read that you can use that.
I use sewing machine oil. Very light and thin.
Quote from: RichColvin on November 30, 2017, 07:27:05 PM
I use sewing machine oil. Very light and thin.
I picked up some sewing machine oil today and applied a some to the wheel and then added some more honing compound, but I think it's still too dry. After I apply the compound it becomes chalky and dusty very quickly. Maybe I'm over thinking this, but I've read a lot on here about not putting too much oil on the wheel, but the manual also says "do not let the compound dry, apply more oil if necessary." The wheel in the Jeff Farris video below seems much more supple compared to mine and the very small amount of compound he applies doesn't dry out or become dusty.
https://youtu.be/3n4GzXVQvUE?t=1m43s
Quote from: canuck on December 02, 2017, 05:02:36 AM
I picked up some sewing machine oil today and applied a some to the wheel and then added some more honing compound, but I think it's still too dry. After I apply the compound it becomes chalky and dusty very quickly. Maybe I'm over thinking this, but I've read a lot on here about not putting too much oil on the wheel, but the manual also says "do not let the compound dry, apply more oil if necessary." The wheel in the Jeff Farris video below seems much more supple compared to mine and the very small amount of compound he applies doesn't dry out or become dusty.
https://youtu.be/3n4GzXVQvUE?t=1m43s
I'm not sure the video is a good comparison... since he puts it on and uses it right away. (You can see it building up on the underside of the tool).
You'll get some "dust" from a new wheel... I think some of it is just the new leather coming off, in addition to some of the compound.
If you think it still needs it... then add a bit more oil. The point I was trying to make is... don't overdue it. Maybe one more round... then use it a bit and see what results you're getting? Ignore a bit of "dust" that comes off initially... even my "over oiled" wheel did that at first. I'd re-evaluate after using it a few times.
Keep me posted... I'm not the expert... just sharing my experience.
Edit: By "new" I mean unused in this case.... (a used wheel gets fairly hard and smooth).
Any update on your wheel?
BTW: I keep forgetting to add this... if you have a decent burr on an edge, the burr will kick up a lot of dust/debris. (One reason I try and minimize the burr on the stone with light alternating passes, before moving to the leather wheel).
Anyways, just curious if there's any update. ???
Sorry I didn't report back. Haven't had much time to use the Tormek the last couple days, but I did add some more sewing machine oil one morning and then used the wheel with more honing compound in the evening. It did seem much better, and didn't kick up quite as much dust. So hopefully I have the right balance now. I can imagine a heavy burr would make it seem worse, so I'll try in to keep an eye on that as well.
I was reading that one application of honing compound should be good for 4 or 5 tools. Does that mean 4 or 5 tools in one sharpening session? What if you do one tool and then let the machine sit for a few days or a few weeks? Is there a certain time limit where a fresh application of honing compound would be required?
Thanks again for all the advice.
Quote from: canuck on December 06, 2017, 11:47:55 PM
Sorry I didn't report back. Haven't had much time to use the Tormek the last couple days, but I did add some more sewing machine oil one morning and then used the wheel with more honing compound in the evening. It did seem much better, and didn't kick up quite as much dust. So hopefully I have the right balance now. I can imagine a heavy burr would make it seem worse, so I'll try in to keep an eye on that as well.
I was reading that one application of honing compound should be good for 4 or 5 tools. Does that mean 4 or 5 tools in one sharpening session? What if you do one tool and then let the machine sit for a few days or a few weeks? Is there a certain time limit where a fresh application of honing compound would be required?
Thanks again for all the advice.
Thanks for the update.
I don't really have an answer to your question... I would guess it's 4-5 tools regardless of time. I guess in part it depends on the results you want. I don't really "polish" with the wheel, I just use it to deburr/cleanup an edge... so the way I "charge" it (adding compound and using a toothbrush to 'scrub' it in)... it lasts me for quite a while. If polishing though, I think it would have to be charged more often, and if it set for a while, probably a bit added since it can dry out.
(That probably didn't help much). :o
Holiday time, makes less time for forums or other non work activities. I was thinking what about mineral oil, as it is inert and what is used on cutting boards, for the leather wheel? (as well as on commercial cutting equipment, etc)
I have used mineral oil, 3in1 oil, the small tube which comes with the T8. All work. I may use Vaseline with the next honing wheel. I had a class with machinery rebuilder, Robert Vaughn, many years ago. Bob made the comment that he felt the presence of lubrication was more important than the kind of lubrication. The same concept seems to apply to the leather honing wheel. If you start with a small amount, you can easily add more.
Excellent topic.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on December 10, 2017, 03:44:05 AM
I have used mineral oil, 3in1 oil, the small tube which comes with the T8. All work. I may use Vaseline with the next honing wheel. I had a class with machinery rebuilder, Robert Vaughn, many years ago. Bob made the comment that he felt the presence of lubrication was more important than the kind of lubrication. The same concept seems to apply to the leather honing wheel. If you start with a small amount, you can easily add more.
Excellent topic.
Ken
I would have to disagree in part... I have found thicker oils, like the pharmacy mineral oil I mentioned earlier, can interfere with sharpening/stropping.
I wouldn't even consider vaseline as an option. :-\