One of the factors in rehabbing vintage Stanley or other hand planes is the need for dressing the leading edge of the chip breaker/cap iron to mate tightly with the flattened back of the cutting iron. I would say that 90 percent of the old Stanleys I have worked on needed serious fettling in this regard. I tried something yesterday with my Tormek that seemed to work well. I found this tip on another forum, specifically Woodnet, in a post by a user whose screen name is Admiral. Here's a link to that thread:
https://www.forums.woodnet.net/showthread.php?tid=7322464&highlight=Tormek (https://www.forums.woodnet.net/showthread.php?tid=7322464&highlight=Tormek)
The real problem is if there are gaps between the cap iron and plane blade, shavings will invariably get caught, forcing a user to stop to clean out the jam. A note of caution on the cap iron I worked on is that I could not rely on the right hand side of the SE-77 because the part tapered along its lower length. Clamping the part as shown in the photo seems about right. I had to set it up with a small machinists' square.
Interesting post, Dakotapix. I have always used the side of a bench stone to mate my irons and caps. I have been often tempted to purchase a combination blade and cap from one of the new premium makers such as Ron Hock. My bench planes are old Stanleys, the youngster being from the 1930s.
Ken
The plane in question is an old Type 7 Stanley manufactured between 1893 and 1899. It is in pretty rough shape. I do have several Hock iron/cap iron combos on my hand plane arsenal and those do work well. There has been a resurgence over the past few years in the close setting of the cap iron to the blade's edge to counter tear out in certain wood species. A close fit is necessary.
The procedure cited above will also result in a burr which should be removed either on the leather Tormek wheel or on stones. I usually do some further polishing of the top of cap iron and this can be further buffed on the Tormek leather wheel.
Your type 7 Stanley is more modern than my grandfather'sStanley jack plane. Many years ago, I took Ernie Conover's plane class. I spent several hours rehabbing the plane. As it was my grandfather's, it was a labor of love. At the end, it was also an awesome plane! The frog broke on it sometime in the last millenium. I later purchased a replacement frog from John Walter in Marietta, Ohio, a delightful store sadly long gone.
My logical self fully appreciates the quality and design of modern Lie-Nielsen and .Veritas tools. I actually own a Veritas Small Plow Plane, an amazing tool, and the odd sizes of L-N bench chisels, to go with my other grandfather's Stanley 750 chisels. If I did not own tools, I would most happily purchase L-N or Veritas. In this lifetime, my Stanley 1891 jack and 1909 Bedrock planes, and 1930s Stanley 750 chisels are old friends.
I have exchanged several emails with Ron Hock and own his sharpening book. (It should be part of every sharpener's library.) Ron seems like a nice guy who makes fine blades. If life gives me another period of extensive woodwork, I plan to purchase some Hock blades and caps.
Ken
We're very much alike in some of our acquisitions. I also have the Veritas Small Plow Plane and think it's a fine tool. I also have a couple of Bedrocks, 604 and 607, both bought at decent prices. Also have a few Stanley 750 as well as Everlasting chisels. I'm pretty much done buying now although I would never pass up an incredible deal if it presents itself.
I know your temptation........Even now, I don't know if I could pass up a hundred dollar used Tormek in nice shape..........
Ken
Interesting topics. Thanks for the information on using the Tormek to fix up the gap between the chip iron and the blade. Having to stop planing and clear the jammed chips is frustrating. I've recently bought a T8 and look forward to try out this out. The new T8 replaces an old but good 1200. Rather than sell the 1200 I am interested to see if anyone uses their older model together with their new Tormek.
Welcome to the forum, Michael. While not having a "newer" T7, a new T4, or a new T8, I would definitely recommend keeping your 1200. My Tormek is a square frame Super Grind. I imagine you will find having the second unit beneficial.
Michael,
I have a 15-year old T-2000. If I get a T8 (or find a good deal on a used T7), I won't get rid of the Green Machine. Probably keep it running with a different stone : maybe SB on one and SG on the other.
Rich
Michael,
Welcome to the forum. I have a T4, the grandson of the T-1200. I would keep the T-1200 and use it for what it does better than any of the larger Tormeks: being mobile. For about thirty dollars US, I bought a Brunswick single ball bowling bag. It will hold your T-1200 equipped with everything you need to sharpen knives, scissors, and chisels. The basic T-1200 only weighs around fifteen pounds, so the rig is surprisingly comfortable to carry with the bag's shoulder strap. I put the dismounted grinding wheel in its box beneath the Tormek. (Carry a zip lock plastic bag, as the wheel may be damp. Also carry a waterproof small cloth in case you set up on a wooden table.) I used this rig to lend a friend my T4 for a trial run. I think it would make a nice hostess thank you for a nice dinner, freshly Tormeked knives.
The smaller size also works very well with eight inch Norton 3X wheels. At 46 and 80 grit (you only need one; I tried both for testing), at fifty dollars US, a 3X makes a very usable cost efficient wet grinding option for occasional heavy grinding like reshaping turning gouges. Send me a PM for mounting procedure if you are interested.
Your T-1200 can be a very useful teammate for many things. I use my T4 as much as its bigger brothers. At 67, I think the smaller Tormek will end up my only Tormek when I eventually move to smaller senior quarters.
Ken
Ken
Quote from: RichColvin on December 16, 2017, 03:34:57 AM
Michael,
I have a 15-year old T-2000. If I get a T8 (or find a good deal on a used T7), I won't get rid of the Green Machine. Probably keep it running with a different stone : maybe SB on one and SG on the other.
Rich
I'll 2nd this... and add maybe putting the SJ wheel on it, as an option to finish edges.
Thank you for the welcome you have provided. This is appreciated.
The idea of using a different stone makes sense as does using the 1200 due to its portability and cababilty with different tools.
When I bought the 1200 I really didn't know how to use it and went back to diamond stones and Japanese waterstones. This was a mistake!
About 12 months ago, I started working part time at a local Secondary school. The job involves maintaining tools and machinery in the wood work room. On my first day I was shown their sharpening system - a Tormek T7. I went away and reluctantly started learning Tormek way,
It was a steep learning curve, but a a very worth while one.
It taught me a lesson in perseverance and not to dismiss something due to ignorance. I was so impressed with the method of sharpening I bought a new T8!
It's rewarding to see the students using sharp tools - hopefully this will encourage some to continue woodworking! Too many aspiring woodworkers give up when they use blunt tools.
I'm sure I will continue to learn with expertise amongst members of this forum. Thanks again!
Quote from: EconoMichael on December 17, 2017, 12:25:16 PM
On my first day I was shown their sharpening system - a Tormek T7. I went away and reluctantly started learning Tormek way,
It was a steep learning curve, but a very worth while one.
Michael,
I'm interested in knowing more about why the learning curve is so high. Is there something that we as a community could do / provide (e.g., videos, etc.) that would make this easier?
Kind regards,
Rich
Quote from: RichColvin on December 17, 2017, 01:09:29 PM
Quote from: EconoMichael on December 17, 2017, 12:25:16 PM
On my first day I was shown their sharpening system - a Tormek T7. I went away and reluctantly started learning Tormek way,
It was a steep learning curve, but a very worth while one.
Michael,
I'm interested in knowing more about why the learning curve is so high. Is there something that we as a community could do / provide (e.g., videos, etc.) that would make this easier?
Kind regards,
Rich
Why Jeff Farris video's are old, they are pretty much the only ones out there. More video's, especially with the newer jigs would be good. (IMHO) Heck, I would love for them to go over the differences even, with the older and newer jigs. It might cause some to upgrade, especially those who have inherited or obtained their systems, second hand.
Also, part of why I think the learning curve is high, is Jeff must have read the same book we were told to read back in school. (Get your point across in 30 seconds or less) His video's, contain SO much information, in those sentences and showing what he is doing, it is common for people to miss little things in them. I believe Ken and I had a discussion about one of the video's years back and I pointed something out that he (or whichever poster it was) missed. I am thinking it is Ken, because he then mentioned how he learned something new, every time he watches it. Maybe we condense information a little too much as teachers, due to how we believe society lives only on soundbites.
After that, there is still the issue that a lot of people have, and that is always practice, verses discouragement of not getting something right, the first time. (and getting older used/damaged tools to practice with)
I found it a steep learning curve as I needed to learn the Tormek system in a short period of time. As pointed out it's easy to miss points that are critical to a successful outcome. I have been watching Jeff's videos and they are very useful. The Tormek manual is also valuable ~ it's well written.
Recently I have been learning about knife sharpening. When I tried to use my T1200 a few years ago I was disappointed and went back to the diamond stones. Again I gave up too soon. After some more reading (including this forum) watching training videos etc I have identified some of the mistakes I made previously. Hopefully I will become a proficient knife sharpener!
Michael,
I would highly recommend the top topic in the Tormek General part of the forum. You can get the jist of it from the first post. I posted it to encourage new users to begin with a 3/4" bench chisel. A chisel has onlt one large bevel. The 3/4" width is much easier to work with than the smaller widths like 1/4". I recommend using an Irwin (formerly Marples) Blue Chip chisel. They are inexpensive and well made. The blades are long enough for a lot of sharpening. The backs have proper square corners, not rounded over. I have around a dozen of these. Three or four would serve you very well. Shop around for a goid price. Do not be tempted to purchase a multiwidth set of four or six. These are learning tools for sharpening.
Having several gives you direct visual and tactile comparison. You can see the difference in various stages of sharpening, as can your students. You can try out different bevel angles. The humble bench chisel can be an invaluable learning tool. It is also very safe. The jig holds the tool.
This method, in my opinion, shortens the learning curve of the Tormek considerably. You can learn the sound and feel of grinding; the stone grader and trying tool; the leather honing wheel; water trough procedure. You can learn all of this, as can your students, with a single eight dollar US (probably a bit more now) chisel. And, after the learning exercises, you have a sharp fundamental tool.
Do keep us posted. Teaching young people is so important.
best wushes,
Ken
ps I am continually bugging Tormek for more and more in depth training videos. Be sure and register your Tormek online, and the school's T7. It secures your warranty, lets you download the latest edition of the handbook, and, very importantly, gives you access to the well done videos by Alan Holtham.
Also, do not be shy about contacting Tormek support. (support@tormek.se). Tormek does a lot of teaching, and may have useful suggestions for you..
Quote from: EconoMichael on December 18, 2017, 09:48:13 AM
...
Recently I have been learning about knife sharpening. When I tried to use my T1200 a few years ago I was disappointed and went back to the diamond stones. Again I gave up too soon. After some more reading (including this forum) watching training videos etc I have identified some of the mistakes I made previously. Hopefully I will become a proficient knife sharpener!
I would be interested in knowing what you learned in the knife sharpening area... a lot of sharpeners try the Tormek, but find it "doesn't work"... so it would be beneficial for me to learn what areas you identified and corrected. (There's a Knife Sharpening section if you'd be willing to start a topic and share... or just stick them in this thread). :)
Quote from: SharpenADullWitt on December 17, 2017, 04:53:12 PM
Why Jeff Farris video's are old, they are pretty much the only ones out there.
I've catalogued a number of resources on my site (www.SharpeningHandbook.info). Click on Sharpening Resources at the bottom of the page.
Rich
Thanks Ken - I have re read your Tormek General advice - your right in saying start with a 3/4 chisel. This is where I started learning the Tormek way.
The lessons I have noted in knife sharpening has been
1/ follow a fairly straight line - not follow the Curve of the knife.
2/ grade the wheel to the finer level.
3 remember to hone the burr off.j
I could say many things regarding cap iron dressing, but others have said it much better before:
https://vimeo.com/126307973 (https://vimeo.com/126307973)
It works for me, and surely for you too. If you are interested on knowing why:
https://vimeo.com/158558759 (https://vimeo.com/158558759)
My chipbreakers are almost as sharp and polished as my blades. I'm a very happy man since I found out ;D
Did you sharpen the chip breakers on the Tormek also ?
Very interesting videos, Daniel.
Rich, the last time I worked on a cap iron, I used a bench stone.
Ken
Rich,
Nope, I dressed all my chipbreakers before acquiring my T-8. Even so, I would probably still do it by hand, since the amount of metal you have to remove is so minimal we could be talking here about "resharpening your chipbreaker" or polishing it instead of sharpening. Sure, if you have an old chipbreaker that is all battered and dinged go ahead and tormek it, Just be careful because it is too easy to remove too much metal and ruin your chipbreaker.
Also, note that polishing the leading edge of the chipbreaker with CrOx or similar compounds might sound overkill, but in my short experience it does look as if it reduces the amount of gummy residue stuck to it.
The only handycap I have found so far is that I am becoming lazy and forgetting to read grain direction before planing LOL!
Ken,
Glad that you liked them. The second one might seem a bit boring and slow at first, but it was an absolute revelation to me when I saw it first some years ago. It completely transformed my working methods and the ripples of it still affect my workshop distribution and even future plans!