hi guys, any new info on the T2 knife sharpener by our great people at Tormek???
Send your question and your country to Tormek to see if it is or will be available in your country. It isn't, here. :(
I found a place in France selling T2's. Considering Tormek is selling it, I'm surprised there is so little info available.
http://www.couteaux-services.com/pro-kitchen-knife-sharpener-tormek-t2.htm
They are not inexpensive: 875.00 €, currently $926.00 U.S.
Interesting specs:
200 mm diamond wheel: I wish the grit level was specified. Considering it is dry grinding, diamond is a good choice due to precision and excellent thermal conductivity. Here is a nifty chart comparing thermal conductivity of various materials:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html
I bet the surface is nice and flat. :)
Duty cycle: 30 min/hr.
Quick sharpening to remove only the minimum of steel on the blade: Why? Because you are not supposed to spend a lot of time at it, or because it is a fine grit or both?
I know! What would happen if you stuck a CBN wheel on the thing!?
Here is another interesting article on CBN wheels:
http://www.robohippy.net/featured-article/
As I recall, the grit of the standard diamond wheel on the T2 is 600, with an optional wheel of 325 grit.
Unfortunately, the otherwise comprehensive heat dispersal chart does not list CBN.
Bob, I think the T2 should really be compared with the T4. They share the same wheel diameter, motor, and almost the same housing. I also think we should consider the target market end user for the T2. Since you already own a T7, you should also compare the T2 and the T7.
My question is if we examine two identical, freshly sharpened knives (for this example, let's assume both were sharpened by you, an experienced sharpener); is either knife sharper? and are the sharpening times comparable?
The idea of having a grinding wheel which never needs to be trued and does not change in diameter is indeed tempting. It has the same marketing ring as knives which "never need sharpening". However, should such a wheel ever develop a saddle, like Wootz' CBN wheel, retruing it may not be an option. While the humble Tormek wheels do need occasional or frequent retruing, it is a quick and easy operation.
The idea of not having to bother with water is appealing. However, this also is a double edged sword. According to Magnus, who has used a T2, while the magnet may catch most of the metal grinding dust, it does not catch all of it. I have never seen any grinding debris with my Tormek outside the water trough. While the diamond (or CBN) wheels do conduct heat much better than conventional grinding wheels, I doubt they cut as cooley as a wet grinder.
My wooden knife block has a slot for a pair of kitchen scissors. When your customer requests that you sharpen his scissors, I do not think the T2 will handle this request. I don't know if the T2 can handle cleavers or unusual edges such as birdseye paring knives.
I am far from being a knife expert. I remember reading about one brand of very expensive knives which require a diamond wheel to sharpen efficiently. I do not think you will find these knives in most restaurants. The question is would a diamond wheel work any more efficiently with the knives you encounter than an SG, SB, or CBN?
I do not pretend to know the answers. I look forward to reading other members' thoughts.
Do keep us posted, Bob.
Ken
Quote from: grepper on November 19, 2016, 08:14:17 AM
Here is another interesting article on CBN wheels:
http://www.robohippy.net/featured-article/
Very interesting article, thanks for posting it, Mark (grepper). That answers part of my quandaries.
hi Ken,
Sorry its been a while to get back to you and the forum.
What i like about the T2 basically is the set 30 degree angle, thereabouts, and no need for a water bath. I love the current blue and black stone for the t7. why cant they incorporate the T2 with a True hone ceramic type wheel.
What do you think?
Bob,
I noticed this in the link posted by Grepper:
Casting: Top trimmed in zinc, plastic ABS shock resistant
Engine: Industrial single-phase, 120 W (input) 230 V, 50 Hz or 115 V, 60 Hz.
Duty cycle: 30 min per hour.
No maintenance.
Quiet operation, 54 dB.
Expected life: 10,000 hours.
What struck me was the engine description, being available with either 230 Volt/50 Hz OR 115 Volt/60Hz. If that is not a misprint, that would mean that the T2, like the T4, is available for both European and North American power. That is significant.
Have you contacted Tormek support in Sweden about this? If so, what does support say? (If not, why not?)
A few thoughts on the T2/T4: (I have a T4, so this is based on actual use, not conjecture.) The T4 is surprisingly like the T7, and more like the T8 (because of the zinc housing). They all use the same jigs and accessories. Even the handbooks are the same. The main shafts are the same 12 mm with the same threads. The T4 shaft is shorter, due to the 40mm grinding wheel width.
With the addition of a 10mm spacer washer (a standard Tormek part), the 200mm wheels of the T4 work very well on the T7. Because of their smaller size, they weigh less. This means less starting drag on the motor, which might be significant with an invertor. They, including CBN wheels, also cost less. Any wheel which fits on the T4 should fit on the T2. ( link to Magnus' post:)
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2064.msg15772#msg15772
I would not be concerned about the "50 percent duty" with the motor. That is a left over from the all plastic housing of the old T3. It was a heat issue, not a motor issue. The redesigned zinc housing dispersed heat and corrected the problem. You will need a rest long before the Tormek does. I would also not be concerned about the ten thousand hour expected life unless you happen to be an android.
If you use a turkey baster, described in munerous posts, using water should not be a problem. Just use the baster to empty the trough before driving between locations. It is easy, quick and clean.
Have you contacted Brimarc, the U.K. Tormek importer? Even if the T2 is not being imported into the U.K. yet, you should be able to purchase one in Sweden or France. If the electrical plug is different, surely you can just purchase an adaptor plug locally.
Keep us posted, and please post what you learn from support and Brimarc.
Ken
No joy from Brimark Ken.
I did not know that the T2 is not distributed by Brimark. See Stig's recent post for the distributor.
Ken
thanks Ken.
I am getting a bit tired, but before I turn in, can you please confirm to me via my email address about the best place to get a C.B.N. wheel for my Tormek T7.
Cheers.
Bob,
I am only familiar with dealers in the US. Considering shipping costs, I think your best bet is to find a UK dealer.
Ken
Maybe this is crossing a pond, but you might have better luck hitting up some UK specific forum and seeing if anyone there has put one on their machine (and from where they bought it).
I first read about these wheels on other forums, and from what I have seen/read, it seems they are happy enough with them, we tend not to see them here.
I am blessed (by dumb luck) to live in a state with three unique and outstanding Tormek dealers in addition to several larger franchise dealers. Except for a very few ebay items and the extended support bar purchased from Robin Bailey in the UK, my Tormek purchases are "shipped" in my personal vehicle.
I hope members with more international purchasing experience will post. I certainly have no reluctance to purchase items from other countries; I just have not needed to do so.
The extended support bar I purchased from Robin cost almost as much in postage as for the product. I don't have a problem with that; Robin has a unique product. We happen to live on opposite sides of the pond. Unlike some of the online dealers, Robin's shipping cost was just the cost of doing business.
My recommendation to Bob to try to locate a UK dealer is to moderate his shipping cost. UK members, who do you recommend? If we start getting deeply into individual budinesses, this might be done more diplomatically through forum PMs.
Ken
thanks.
I have checked out the french site now.
Thanks all for the comments.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on November 19, 2016, 11:43:25 AM
Bob, I think the T2 should really be compared with the T4. They share the same wheel diameter, motor, and almost the same housing. I also think we should consider the target market end user for the T2. Since you already own a T7, you should also compare the T2 and the T7.
I think it is wrong to compare the T2 to the others. Although it shares the same motor and body design it is totally different and aims to different users.
My question is if we examine two identical, freshly sharpened knives (for this example, let's assume both were sharpened by you, an experienced sharpener); is either knife sharper? and are the sharpening times comparable?
The little experience I had with the T2 few knifes at a restaurant in Sweden late at night :) was described on my post 1/2 yr ago.
I could not compare to a sharpening with the SG wheel but I feel that with the SG you can get better edge. Also as a professional sharpener it is limited to work with it.
Looking to get a T2 it has to be clear IMHO that it is good for restaurants, catering and alike businesses. It is aimed to ppl who wants a sharp knife to work with and don't care about grit, metal, angles etc... Sharp working knife NOW.
This users can start the morning with couple of minutes of putting their knifes in the machine knowing the are happy with ?? setting of angle and start their business with sharpened knife and enjoy their cuttings all day. Lots of businesses would pay higher price for this peace of mind.
My wooden knife block has a slot for a pair of kitchen scissors. When your customer requests that you sharpen his scissors, I do not think the T2 will handle this request. I don't know if the T2 can handle cleavers or unusual edges such as birdseye paring knives.
No cleavers on T2 as I understand. Definitely not with the knife jig. Maybe by freehand.
Paring knife yes but not the inner curve near the handle which is a post by it's own. (if really needed or not).
I am far from being a knife expert. I remember reading about one brand of very expensive knives which require a diamond wheel to sharpen efficiently. I do not think you will find these knives in most restaurants. The question is would a diamond wheel work any more efficiently with the knives you encounter than an SG, SB, or CBN?
Haven't tried the CBN on T-8 with water yet so I can't compare but I use frequently the SB and it takes all knifes and ceramics too with elegant.
I believe the recommendation from the "expensive" brand did the recommendation without knowing about Tormek SB and with some interests too.
That was my 2 cents for today.
Wolfy,
Your thoughts sound very similar to mine, from knowing two chef's as well as my restaurant owning friends.
The T2 looks great for ease of use, which is what is important for them.
The knives that I have heard were the harder ones to sharpen, have been Global brand knives. I certainly haven't found all brands though, so there may be harder.
But those knives have a high price, and since they don't have the NSF certification on them, means local officials can ban them.
Also, sharp can vary. I went in to pick up one of my friends home knives. This was a well used knife, that a commercial sharpening company, used to offer in a rotation service they had. When the knives were close to end of life, they sharpened them and put then in some drawers (could be as high as $8). He wanted some inexpensive ones, years ago, when I did some equipment delivery for them (one was out for surgery), so I picked them up.
While I was at the restaurant, one of the kid's picked up what he thought was the dull knife, they hand out to customers as a cake knife, and used it as a scraper on his apron. Needless to say the look on my face made him wonder, and I took the knife and cut paper with it, and he had the same look. I can tell it has wore since I sharpened it, but it is plenty sharp for tomato's yet, and certainly sharp enough to take the grin off his face and perform a circumcision on someone who is not careful. :o
Honestly, I do hope they eventually offer the T2 in my country. I would be interested to see how sharp and how much time it would take per knife. I would even like to see how long, in comparison to someone like Steve, who freehands them.
The last two posts may lead us toward the underlying reasons for a T2. Think of a chef and a cabinetmaker. Both are creative people who use tools. I can not imagine a craftsman cutting dovetails who would be happy to use a sharpening service who rotated his (actually the service's) chisels. The chisel of the week, here this week, replaced the next, would not offer the same sense of being an extension of his hand through long use as a chisel one has used and maintained for many years.
Commercial sharpening services generally have a reputation for removing a lot of steel. I remember James Beard made the comment in one of his books, treat your knives with the same care you give to the family silver; they are at least as valuable. I believe many chefs have the same attachment to their tools as cabinetmakers. Having a sharpening tool like the T2 allows a chef to efficiently maintain his own knives.
Some chefs entrust their valued knives to local experts. I am quite certain that many of Steve Bottorff's customers return because they have come to trust Steve. We should never underestimate the importance of trust in business.
Over the years as a telephone man, I learned that people who fix things develop similar thought patterns. Working with the public I learned that I could discuss troubleshooting a telephone circuit with a diesel truck mechanic. We had the same analyzing brain circuits. I believe many chefs, like cabinetmakers or machinists, would prefer to maintain their tools. A T2 offers them an efficient way to do that, the DIY, do it yourself mindset.
Having a T4, which is built on the same motor and frame as the T2, I have come to appreciate the compact size and portability of the smaller Tormek. There is a place for both Tormek sizes; I think the smaller size is less obtrusive in a restaurant or a chef's home.
I agree with Bob and SADW; I hope Tormek will eventually make the T2 generally available. It will not hurt the sales of the other Tormek models. No turner will opt for a T2 instead of a conventional Tormek. I can see a possible market for the T2 jig adapted to other Tormeks.
Those who might remember my reviews of the T4 know that the nature of the work should be the deciding factor in choosing a T4 or T7/8, not cost difference. I feel the same way about the T2. It offers a very well designed tool for a specialized market.
Ken
Yes Ken, you are correct with ref. to specialist market. Currently Tormek are offering a GENERAL sharpening machine ( T4 T7 T8 ) . I, as a specific user ( Knife sharpening only ) am absolutely crying out for something like the T2 and would probably not have bought the T7 if the T2 was around a few years ago. Dont get me wrong, the Tormek T7 is a GREAT machine, but I personally only use it for a small percentage of my knife sharpening jobs because it takes so long to set up for each knife and also having the water trough etc etc.
Can we Please Please get a Tormek for knife sharpening like the T2 or even more advanced for us all here in the U.K. and the U.S.A.
We do not want to be the poor cousins of the Tormek home, surely we are the biggest buyers, if so, give us first choice on the products.
Thank you .
Bob
The Knife Grinder
Bob,
If your set up time for knives seems excessively long, I suspect you have not mastered the kenjig. If you can use the kenjig effectively, set up time should be very quick. You should be able to set the distance between the universal support once and rarely readjust the jig protrusion. You should be able to leave the Anglemaster and the black marker in your vehicle. You can easily change back and forth between knife sizes with essentially no set up change. (Using three or four knife jigs facilitates this.)
With an efficient set up and a turkey baster, the water trough should not be a problem.
Do a forum search on "knife setting tool". I posted a document describing how to built and use the kenjig.
Make the operator the strongest link in the chain. Your T7 will keep up with you.
Ken