Hello ppl.
Today a costumer handed in his 36001 with no tip so i took it to my grinding station and had a go.
This time i took a bunch of images and created a album on Imgur.
Here it is, have fun :)
I'll gladly answer any questions or so.
Best regards from Sweden.
http://imgur.com/a/Bnyb7 (http://imgur.com/a/Bnyb7)
A nice piece of work, thanks for documenting it. I would have dropped the spine to meet the existing edge. More metal to remove but all blunt work that would not require a guide.
Shapes the knife differently, will be interesting to see his opinion of it.
So you used the diamond blade on the T-7, or do you have the T-2 as well?
Very daring design and great grinding work. Congratulations. :)
It is a pity that the customer gave no guidance concerning the re-shaping. ;)
Jan
Quote from: stevebot on August 25, 2016, 05:37:10 PM
A nice piece of work, thanks for documenting it. I would have dropped the spine to meet the existing edge. More metal to remove but all blunt work that would not require a guide.
Steve,
without a guidance concerning the re-shaping I would do the same as you suggested. This would preserve the typical santoku blade geometry characterised by the sheep's foot tip.
I use similar Santoku knife made of a stainless Damascus-patterned blade with a VG-10 cutting core. Its hardness is about 61 Rockwell. VG-10 is known for its ability to hold the bevel (abrasion resistance) but also for being fragile and chipping quite easily on hard surfaces.
Jan
Thanks for all the kind words.
I was thinking of dropping the spine a bit but due to time I went for the edge, but it's a good idea stevebot. I've done it several times on Global knives that's lost their tips.
SharpenADullWit, yes I have a T-2 and also a T-4 :)
I will do some more documenting further on as more knives pass through.
Nice work and photos, Magnus.
Having worked with Norton 3X conventional grinding wheels on the T4, I hope to someday work with a Tormek CBN or diamond wheel. (Tormek must first manufacture them for this to happen. :( )
I do like the T4!
Ken
Steve's idea of dropping the spine to meet the edge got me thinking. Do large kitchen knives really need to come to a point? Is the point ever used? And is it more a danger as a cause of accidental injury than anything else?
Thanks Mangus.
I went back and looked at the pictures again, and it made me realize, are you using it on the Tormek stand?
I saw the other wheel on the side and my brain said that image showed one Tormek, over another. So I was thinking I might just be seeing you use one machine on the top of that IKEA stand, while the other was on a lower shelf. Then I thought the wheel was off. Sometimes I look at things and my concept is preventing me from seeing what is actually there.
Herman,
Points on knives give you an entry point, as well as a scoring point. You can choose another knife, and in the case of this style of knife, it is more of a down cutting tool, then a slicing tool. (similar to a Chinese cleaver, up and down motion, more then rocking like a western chef's knife)
Not all knives have points and not all come to a point on the front, but may be squared off. For instance, Dexter Russell sells a 3 7/8" shoe knife that is liked by both leather workers as well as by cooks as a paring knife. A larger version, sold as a rubber knife, is liked by insulation installers, to cut bats.
Some draw knives have handles to the side (no useable points), and dough knives which are also sold as butter knives, have a curve and can have serrations or not.
But the points tend to get used for both packaging opening (modern material, or the peel of an onion), as well as scoring and lifting. There are just different techniques, for different knives.
I suppose that the points on my larger kitchen knives are used mostly for cutting through the plastic wrapping on supermarket foods.
A tip on a paring knife, on the other hand, is essential for coring things like apples and bell peppers.
I suppose everyone's needs vary according to the type of cooking they do and their cutlery preferences. In the future, though, any time I consider repairing a broken tip I'll first ask if having a tip on that particular knife is really an advantage.
Quote from: stevebot on August 25, 2016, 05:37:10 PM
A nice piece of work, thanks for documenting it. I would have dropped the spine to meet the existing edge. More metal to remove but all blunt work that would not require a guide.
Couldn't agree more.
Removing the steel from the edge change to much of the knife character and force you to regrind the first bevel too. In a damascus steel and with VG10 core IMHO it's wrong, even if you did a nice job on that knife.
I think I would just straighten the tip and give it a nice new straight drop angle about 15 dgrs to the edge.
But most important and I agree with Herman that consulting with the customer and presenting different solutions with the explanation of good and bad in them is crucial.
Lycka till ;)
By the way, if I'm not mistaken, this "Made in Japan" is only referring to the steel. There are knifes like this, made in China and costs about $40~50USD on ebay or Aliexpress. I have one and like it very much. They are light and holding the edge pretty nice. HRc should be about 60-62
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20160826140032&SearchText=xinzuo+8+chef
Although IKEA has nice knifes too and are very cheap. Got them too.
Recently I was sharpening a knife made of Japanese stainless steel VG-10. I have noticed that the magnetically attracted steel fillings were different from fillings obtained by sharpening milder steels.
The gathered fillings derived from the VG-10 steel had granular character compared with the fillings from milder steels which usually form a bulge above the magnet which resembles hedgehog spines. I was wondering if the powder metallurgy could be the reason for it. :-\
Jan
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on August 26, 2016, 03:00:22 PM
Steve's idea of dropping the spine to meet the edge got me thinking. Do large kitchen knives really need to come to a point? Is the point ever used? And is it more a danger as a cause of accidental injury than anything else?
In my opinion a point is always useful. On a larger knife, sure the point is perhaps not used as much as in smaller or peeling knives. So, why not, I see your point (!).
But maybe it would be seen upon as a some what decimated knife if it's missing it's point?
The reason I discussed this edge line with the costumer is that the knife won't dig in to the cutting board as much with this radius right before the tip.
As you guys know whilst cutting smaller objects in large scale the front part of the knife rarely leave the surface of the cutting board. And the knife is slightly moving to and front and with a straighter edge it's easier for the point to stick into the cutting board and killing the flow of the cutting. Not good when working fast in say, a competition.
Quote from: SharpenADullWitt on August 26, 2016, 04:35:12 PM
Thanks Mangus.
I went back and looked at the pictures again, and it made me realize, are you using it on the Tormek stand?
I saw the other wheel on the side and my brain said that image showed one Tormek, over another. So I was thinking I might just be seeing you use one machine on the top of that IKEA stand, while the other was on a lower shelf. Then I thought the wheel was off. Sometimes I look at things and my concept is preventing me from seeing what is actually there.
Yes, it is a Tormek stand.
The lower stone is hanging on a small stud on the side. I have another stone hanging on the opposite side of the stand.
I can provide some more pictures of my corner once it's a bit more organised because right now it's a bit of a mess :)
Quote from: WolfY on August 27, 2016, 12:02:18 AM
By the way, if I'm not mistaken, this "Made in Japan" is only referring to the steel. There are knifes like this, made in China and costs about $40~50USD on ebay or Aliexpress. I have one and like it very much. They are light and holding the edge pretty nice. HRc should be about 60-62
http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=AS_20160826140032&SearchText=xinzuo+8+chef
Although IKEA has nice knifes too and are very cheap. Got them too.
You are quite right. In many cases a Chinese manufacturer buys its steel from Japan. How ever there are big differences in the Japanese manufacturers as well. As a costumer you would have to do your research and find out the process your self.
VG-10 for example can differ quite a lot depending on how it's treated though the process from sheet to finished blade. This is why you can find items that looks the same on paper but in reality can be totally different tools.
In this case, Yaxell, the knife is made in Japan. Yaxell gets their raw steel sheets from Takefu and the factory is in Seki just north of Hanoi.
I've visited the factory and it was really interesting. There were a lot of interesting discussions with their sharpening staff and their sharpening master.
Their handy work is just amazing and their machines looks quite different.
Quote from: Jan on August 27, 2016, 10:23:59 AM
Recently I was sharpening a knife made of Japanese stainless steel VG-10. I have noticed that the magnetically attracted steel fillings were different from fillings obtained by sharpening milder steels.
The gathered fillings derived from the VG-10 steel had granular character compared with the fillings from milder steels which usually form a bulge above the magnet which resembles hedgehog spines. I was wondering if the powder metallurgy could be the reason for it. :-\
Jan
Now when you say it I've seen it too. Possibly the filings of VG-10 has a tendency to arrange tip to tip more then other softer steel. Can it be the lack of carbon perhaps?
Very interesting posts, Magnus.
You have both a T4 and T2. Would you please post about how the polishing wheels differ?
Thanks.
Ken
Quote from: Magnus Sundqvist on August 31, 2016, 11:09:35 AM
I can provide some more pictures of my corner once it's a bit more organised because right now it's a bit of a mess :)
A shop is not a mess, when you have no more projects, or no longer use it, IMHE. It can be organized, but I find for too many of us, life gets in the way, in reality.
Quote from: Magnus Sundqvist on August 31, 2016, 11:19:35 AM
In this case, Yaxell, the knife is made in Japan. Yaxell gets their raw steel sheets from Takefu and the factory is in Seki just north of Hanoi.
It is a really problem to know the real steel quality. :( I guess only as official importer you are able to get assurance to what you buy. If you have good relationship with the manufacturer.
Quote from: Magnus Sundqvist on August 31, 2016, 11:19:35 AM
In this case, Yaxell, the knife is made in Japan. Yaxell gets their raw steel sheets from Takefu and the factory is in Seki just north of Hanoi.
I've visited the factory and it was really interesting. There were a lot of interesting discussions with their sharpening staff and their sharpening master.
Their handy work is just amazing and their machines looks quite different.
Magnus,
as far as I know Seki is a small town in the middle of Japan which is famous for its production of fine knives like Solingen in Germany. I am wondering why you mention Hanoi, which is the capital of Vietnam? :-\
Jan
Quote from: Jan on September 01, 2016, 09:58:44 AM
Magnus,
as far as I know Seki is a small town in the middle of Japan which is famous for its production of fine knives like Solingen in Germany. I am wondering why you mention Hanoi, which is the capital of Vietnam? :-\
Jan
Ha! Of course, I guess the ol' brain wasn't with me. Nagoya was the city i referred to.
This is Yaxells factory.
https://www.google.se/maps/@35.4862514,136.9110042,3a,75y,269.09h,84.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sECGTa6GzetjeoK_awiUHMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1 (https://www.google.se/maps/@35.4862514,136.9110042,3a,75y,269.09h,84.06t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sECGTa6GzetjeoK_awiUHMQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1)
Quote from: Ken S on August 31, 2016, 04:54:36 PM
Very interesting posts, Magnus.
You have both a T4 and T2. Would you please post about how the polishing wheels differ?
Thanks.
Ken
The polishing wheel is the same on T4 as on T7. The wheel on T2 is like a eraser with tiny particles in the mixture. It makes a similar result, not as shiny but it's quicker. It also leaves quite a bit of dust but it's expected since it's used dry.
Thanks, Magnus. The T2 polishing wheel sounds like the eraserlike rust erasers. They are shop essentials. Perhaps the T2 honing wheel is designed to remove the burr and leave just a little tooth on the edge for slicing. Tormek made a similar wheel years ago as an option. The quick release for the honing wheel was introduced at the same time. The other, more coarse honing wheel was discontinued long ago.
I have had good results using valve grinding compound with a separate leather honing wheel. As with the T2 wheel, it cuts faster, but does not equal the Tormek honing compound for polish. I like having a second option. (Valve grinding compound doesn't leave any dust.) The quick release, now standard on the T7 and T8, and available as a spare part for the T4, makes quick work of changing the leather honing wheels.
Ken