In summer this year we have discussed the importance of pivoting the knife when sharpening its point. See http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2562.15 (http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2562.15) At this occasion I have introduced prototype of my tool's entitled Knife Tip Point Setting Template.
This template should allow easy knife mounting into SVM-45 knife jig, in a way that ensures the same bevel angle at the straight part of the blade and the point. Since that time I have slightly improved the concept and prepared a digital version of this template, which is now ready for your potential download.
In the picture below you can see my Knife Tip Point Setting Template designed for Ken's projection length 139 mm:
(http://img23.rajce.idnes.cz/d2303/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/Paletka_solingen.jpg?ver=0)
In the next picture, you can see that the knife jig is generally not placed equidistantly between the point of the knife and where the blade joins with the handle of the knife.
(http://img23.rajce.idnes.cz/d2303/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/Paletka_Mora_tormek.jpg?ver=0)
The improved design of the Knife Tip Point Setting Template is here:
(http://img23.rajce.idnes.cz/d2303/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/TEMPLATE_139MM_700_1.jpg?ver=0)
The template can be downloaded/printed from the following address:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xqwn5xuk0r07z5d/TEMPLATE_139MM.pdf?dl=1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/xqwn5xuk0r07z5d/TEMPLATE_139MM.pdf?dl=1)
Print the image at the actual original size and check that the projection length is really 139 mm.
Jan
P.S.: For info concerning Ken's projection length 139 mm concept see https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bye-818SN85DdzB3bU9aUU81eTg/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bye-818SN85DdzB3bU9aUU81eTg/view?usp=sharing) , and also the newer thread http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2639.0 (http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2639.0) .
Jan,
Thank you for posting this useful visual aid.
I came up with the 139mm length by noting the minimum and maximum distances with my three most commonly used kitchen knives, paring (with Tormek small knife tool in knife jig); slicer; and chef's knife. 139mm was around midpoint of the common part of the range, and allowed some room for grinding wheel diameter wear.
I would encourage all of you to do these measurements for yourselves. It takes only a very few minutes, and will deepen your understanding of the process.
Jan, I will print your drawing and incorporate it into my knife sharpening. Good work.
Ken
Ken, you are very modest. I like more and more your Kenjig approach with an emphasis on minimizing measuring when setting knife for sharpening on Tormek. :)
Your projection length of 139 mm is well chosen value which suits for a large number of commonly used, knives. It works even with my Japanese Santoku knife. Modifications of the projection length are of course possible, but the most important initial decision has already been taken.
Jan
Jan,
Thank you for posting your template and the other works you have done. Your pictures and instruction #3 make it plain to align the tip instead of the belly of the knife with the template arc. That would have been a question, however, you made that clear. I have to admit that I have to look up knife terminology at times. In my thinking, "point" and "tip" mean the same thing. That is not so with knife terminology!
Thank you Elden, for pointing out my terminological error. I welcome your attention. :)
I let TORMEK Handbook affect me, although it is not normative for knife terminology.
To maintain correctness, I will fix this error in the name of the topic as well as in the pdf file.
Jan
No Jan, you had it correct. It was me that had it in my memory incorrectly.
Elden, the knife terminology is not unique. >:(
In Wikipedia under the slogan "knife", I have found: "the point – the end of the knife used for piercing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife
In Oxford dictionaries I have found definition of "knifepoint" in American-English: "The pointed end of a knife". http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/knifepoint?q=knife-point
While, no exact match found for "knife-tip" in British & World English, and no exact match found for "knife-tip" in US English.
So, for the time being, I'll leave it as it is now.
Jan
P.S.: As it is written "The more words, the more vanity, and what is the advantage to man?".
Nice work Jan!
Thank you Mark! :)
As I already told you, I like the Kenjig approach with an emphasis on minimizing measuring when setting knife for sharpening on Tormek. :)
I made an 80 mm Kenjig for setting the stone-support distance and added the 83 mm distance for setting the honing wheel-support distance. Those two distances with Ken's projection length of 139 mm will ensure an edge angle 30 degrees, assuming 250 mm grinding stone and 220 mm honing wheel.
(http://img23.rajce.idnes.cz/d2303/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/MY_KENJIG_700.jpg?ver=0)
It is made of plywood, thickness 18 mm (3/4"), the groove has been routed.
Because the Kenjig sits reliably on the support, setting the distances is easy.
(http://img23.rajce.idnes.cz/d2303/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/MY_KENJIG_STONE_700_2.jpg?ver=0)
(http://img23.rajce.idnes.cz/d2303/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/MY_KENJIG_HONING_700.jpg?ver=0)
It is practical to have two Universal Supports. ;)
Jan
Quote from: Jan on October 28, 2015, 11:32:24 PM
Elden, the knife terminology is not unique. >:(
In Wikipedia under the slogan "knife", I have found: "the point – the end of the knife used for piercing" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife
In Oxford dictionaries I have found definition of "knifepoint" in American-English: "The pointed end of a knife". http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/american_english/knifepoint?q=knife-point
While, no exact match found for "knife-tip" in British & World English, and no exact match found for "knife-tip" in US English.
Jan, check out the definition portion in this link.
http://www.jayfisher.com/Knife_Anatomy_Parts_Names_Definitions.htm
According to it, the tip is the termination of the point (I use use termination to refrain from an exact quote). In "The Free Dictionary", the definition of tip is:
Quote1. The end of a pointed or projecting object.
Jan, you aren't the only one trying to improve his use of the English language! ;D
I suggest to wait whether the forum crystallizes a clear opinion on the correct terminology for knives.
Thanks for recognition, for me English improvement is a side benefit, and even a little fun. :)
Jan
Quote
Jan, check out the definition portion in this link.
http://www.jayfisher.com/Knife_Anatomy_Parts_Names_Definitions.htm
According to it, the tip is the termination of the point (I use use termination to refrain from an exact quote).
Elden, this is a hard saying, I cannot listen to it! :o
As someone who grew up within the framework of Euclidean geometry, I have to remind you that Euclid originally defined the point as "that which has no part". The geometric points do not have any length, area or volume. Point is meant to capture the notion of a unique location in 3D space.
It does not mean that the knife terminology can define it differently, but you will understand that it would be against common sense. :)
Jan
That is very interesting, Jan. You are knocking some of the dust off my mathematical archives. You are correct in that definition of point. However, welcome to the English language, the language of EXCEPTIONS. I am not saying you are incorrect, only that our language can be strange at times! Here, (I cannot speak for all English speaking places) we do not normally say the point of the finger but the tip of the finger. Yet, we point with our finger! In pointing, if only the tip of the finger was considered, it would be hard to figure out which direction was being indicated. ;)
Jan,
Your double ended "kenjig" (Shall we call it the "janjig"?) is very clever. Good job! This topic illustrates the power of a forum. When an idea is shared by interested parties, it improves. It is exciting! Keep up the good work. Incidentally, using the second end for getting the leather honing wheel for the same set up seems logical to me. Having one end for (example) fifteen degrees and the other end for twenty degrees would start to get more complicated and prone to error.
Eldon and Jan,
We definitely need standard (and more exact) definitions for parts of a knife. I would eventually like to see "chisel sharpening" type initial topics for all the sub forums. I think these should include good definitions for standard terms. That way would eliminate a lot of confusion.
Ken
Quote from: kb0rvo on October 31, 2015, 05:10:10 PM
That is very interesting, Jan. You are knocking some of the dust off my mathematical archives. You are correct in that definition of point. However, welcome to the English language, the language of EXCEPTIONS. I am not saying you are incorrect, only that our language can be strange at times! Here, (I cannot speak for all English speaking places) we do not normally say the point of the finger but the tip of the finger. Yet, we point with our finger! In pointing, if only the tip of the finger was considered, it would be hard to figure out which direction was being indicated. ;)
Thank you Elden for an interesting lesson in English. :)
Pointing with a fingertip is fine for me, because it indicates direction to a point in space and involves both, the finger and the fingertip.
Here are a few examples of the knife terminology supporting my view, which is in compliance with he following definition:Point - The extreme end of the blade where the line of the back and the line of the edge meet. https://www.theknifeconnection.net/knife-terminology/ .
(http://img15.rajce.idnes.cz/d1503/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/KNIFE_POINT_1.jpg?ver=0)
Adapted from Peterson, Harold L., American Knives, Charles Scribner's Sons, New York, 1958.
(http://img15.rajce.idnes.cz/d1503/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/Britishblades.jpg?ver=0)
(http://img15.rajce.idnes.cz/d1503/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/KNIFE_DEPOT.jpg?ver=0)
(http://img15.rajce.idnes.cz/d1503/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/LANSKY.jpg?ver=0)
After Wikipedia modern knife consists of:
1. the blade
2. the handle
3. the point – the end of the knife used for piercing
4. the edge – the cutting surface of the knife extending from the point to the heel
5. the grind – the cross section shape of the blade
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5b/Knife_parts.jpg)
6. the spine – the thickest section of the blade; on a single-edged knife, the side opposite the edge; on a two-edged knife, more toward the middle
7. the fuller – a groove added to make the blade lighter
8. the ricasso – the flat section of the blade located at the junction of the blade and the knife's bolster or guard
9. the guard – the barrier between the blade and the handle which prevents the hand from slipping forward onto the blade and protects the hand from the external forces that are usually applied to the blade during use
10. the hilt or butt – the end of the handle utilized for blunt force
11. the lanyard – a strap used to secure the knife to the wrist
Jan
Quote from: Ken S on October 31, 2015, 06:24:37 PM
Jan,
Your double ended "kenjig" (Shall we call it the "janjig"?) is very clever. Good job! This topic illustrates the power of a forum. When an idea is shared by interested parties, it improves. It is exciting! Keep up the good work. Incidentally, using the second end for getting the leather honing wheel for the same set up seems logical to me. Having one end for (example) fifteen degrees and the other end for twenty degrees would start to get more complicated and prone to error.
Thank you, Ken! Let's stay with the name double ended kenjig. My contribution was quite small. :)
You might be interested to know that I was thinking (musing) about the famous Dutchman tables and came to the conclusion that we do not use them entirely correctly for setting the stone-support distance. Fortunately, the bias is small, only about 1 mm. Let me know if you would like to know more about it.
I can also offer calculation of the stone-support distance for arbitrary wheel radius and projection length. It is not easy to estimate it from the Dutchman tables, because it often requires interpolation. I am testing an Excel spreadsheet for it.
Jan
I dunno, but I think if you referred to the point of a knife, or the tip of a knife, most people would think you're talking about the same thing.
Of course, if we want to be more precise we define our terms. The edge of a knife is the line where the two grinding surfaces meet. The end of that line furthest from the handle is the tip.
I agree that the term point is not helpful. There are an infinite number of them in Euclidean 3-dimensional space.
Elden, the website you cited is an excellent source of information. I was disappointed, though, when I clicked on "price" and saw words instead of numbers. I buy my knives with an entirely different philosophy. I think I should pay based on utility alone. I care not at all about looks. I realize those knives are highly useful, but I would venture to guess that most of the knives he makes are not used. They are trophy pieces. But they are exceptionally nice knives nevertheless.
Good observation, Herman. Trophy pieces are fine for collectors. Like you, I value utility. My kitchen knives, carefully sharpened on the Tormek, do not reside in cases. They work on my wooden cutting board.
Ken
Quote from: Jan on October 31, 2015, 08:51:07 PM
I can also offer calculation of the stone-support distance for arbitrary wheel radius and projection length. It is not easy to estimate it from the Dutchman tables, because it often requires interpolation. I am testing an Excel spreadsheet for it.
Jan
Hi Jan, could you please take in account T4 dimensional specification ?
Perhaps a separate Excel spreadsheet ?
Same request for double end Jig, can I take it as it for a T4 ?
Thanks in advance.
Sheang
Excellent question, Sheang.
If Jan's excel sheet allows for wheel wear, all you will need to do to use it with the T4 (or T3) is use the part for a 200 mm diameter grinding wheel, or whatever diameter wear applies to your wheel.
When I first received my T4 I set it next to my T7. Acknowledging that there are differences, I was surprised by how similar the two models are. The onlt difference in any of the jigs and accessories is that the universal support for the T4 is ten mm shorter. This is for the end safety stop of the SE-76 to work properly with the ten mm narrower grinding wheel. All of the other jigs work the same. In fact, if the T7 grinding wheel is worn to 200mm in diameter, not uncommon, all of the jig settings are identical.
This surprised me at first. I do use separate Anglemasters. One is labelled"T4". This is for my memory rather than anything about the Tormek.
When I made up the kenjig, I used Dutchman's chart from the forum. I noticed that the universal support to grinding wheel distance was about eight mm longer with a 200 mm wheel. My T4 kenjig is cut with an 88mm slot instead of an 80mm slot. (for a fifteen degree bevel).
Because of size constraints, the leather honing wheel must be used handheld with the T4. No double ended jig is necessary for it. This is not a problem. With a little care and practice, hand honing is easily mastered. In fact, I suspect most T7 users use hand honing.
Ken
Ken, Sheang, below you can see two samples produced by my Excel spreadsheet. The spreadsheet, when released, will enable you to change each parameter shown in black (wheel radius, projection length and bevel angle), and Excel will calculate the wheel-support distances S after Dutchmen and S' after Jan.
S' reflects the way how we measure the wheel-support distance with kenjig.
(http://img23.rajce.idnes.cz/d2303/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/ANGLE_ADJUSTMENT_TABLE_1_1.jpg?ver=0)
(http://img23.rajce.idnes.cz/d2303/11/11662/11662961_154b127859a75fd0e4c34b43d800ec69/images/ANGLE_ADJUSTMENT_TABLE_2.jpg?ver=0)
The first table is for T7 only, the gray columns show the calculation for honing wheel.
The second table is for T3, T4 and also for T7 with a worn stone.
Both tables assume the projection length of 139 mm and show the wheel-support distances for three bevel angles: 15o, 12.5o and 10 o (i.e. for edge angles 30o, 25o and 20o).
(http://img25.rajce.idnes.cz/d2503/13/13695/13695784_7bf4904e03865494cfe585041bb3f639/images/My_knife_jig_drawing.jpg?ver=0)
Let me know if it will be useful to you in this form.
Jan
Jan
That sounds perfect. :)
Excellent work, Jan.
It is regrettable that Dutchman is no longer actively posting. His work is ground breaking. Unfortunately, I think his fine work was too in depth for most of the forum. I found it very useful in developing the kenjig. Useful, but not easy.
Your thoroughness is commendable. I am looking forward to your completed program. I believe we will need two versions to be really effective. Your thorough version and a very simplified stripped down version. I suspect the simpler version will be more used, especially until people begin to realize the full value of the concept.
Keep up the good work.
Ken
Ken, the most simplified version of an Excel spreadsheet entitled "KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1" is available for download at the following address:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypbtaxgycgoyls0/KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1.xlsb?dl=1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypbtaxgycgoyls0/KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1.xlsb?dl=1)
The spreadsheet enables you to change each parameter shown in black (wheel radius, projection length and bevel angle), and Excel will automatically calculate the wheel-support distances, S after Dutchmen and S' after Jan.
The distance S' reflects the way how we measure the wheel-support distance with a kenjig, i.e. between the wheel and the back of the universal support.
The formulas in the spreadsheet are valid for grinding stones and honing wheels of all Tormek machines, including the 2000 and 1200 series equipped with standard universal support made of 12 mm (1/2") round steel and Tormek knife jig or long knife jig.
Please let me know whether it works on your PC.
Jan
P.S.: My spreadsheet was prepared in Excel for Windows which is the gold standard in spreadsheets. Excel for Mac 2011 is probably the closest to this standard.
This jig has realy helped me, thanks a LOT
How about to use it with Tormeks jig for long knifes?
You are welcome, Dennis! :)
I am very pleased that the jig helped you. You can use it also with the Tormek jig for long knives, because the relevant dimensions are the same. The width of the clamps has no effect on the edge angle.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on November 08, 2015, 06:30:25 PM
Ken, the most simplified version of an Excel spreadsheet entitled "KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1" is available for download at the following address:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypbtaxgycgoyls0/KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1.xlsb?dl=1 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypbtaxgycgoyls0/KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1.xlsb?dl=1)
Jan really thank you very much for sharing this valuable material
You are welcome, Fernando! :)
I am pleased that it is useful for you. Please keep in mind that the script works for T7 machine only.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on April 25, 2018, 10:05:57 PM
You are welcome, Fernando! :)
I am pleased that it is useful for you. Please keep in mind that the script works for T7 machine only.
Jan
Umm I have is the tormek T-8, and as I have seen there are slight differences in the measurements, but that would affect the final result .
Fernando, I have to correct my statement in reply #28. My Excel script works for all Tormek machines with standard USB and Tormek knife jig. Sorry for confusing you.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on May 08, 2018, 11:55:35 PM
Fernando, I have to correct my statement in reply #28. My Excel script works for all Tormek machines with standard USB and Tormek knife jig. Sorry for confusing you.
Jan
Ok, thanks for the clarification, I plan to use that utility all weekend, to see how it goes ...
hello,
I tried it on standard long knife, it is working perfectly.But then I got to sharpen knife with 30 blade -Global Chef knife G-16.But to have point of knife (:-) ) on the arc jig would has to be almost on the end of blade.
What is solution for long knives please?Should I just move those 2 vertical lines more to right?
Many thanks Jan for all your contribution, you are helping people a lot.
Tomas
Tomas, use the knife jig SVM-45 and place the centre of the knife jig approximately 3 1/4" (8.25 cm) from the point of the knife. Test this setup with sharpie. I hope it will work fine.
Jan
thank you Jan.I did it yesterday, but it looked to me little strange setup. You know, like 70% of blade length was behind the jig-45. It look not very proportional. I did not wanted to tested it on wheel, as that knife costs too much:-)
OK, you are correct, the long blades have to be mounted in this disproportional way, which is not very suitable for sharpening the heel of the blade.
Jan
ok, so I should probably come back to imaginary line between point and heel of blade and set jig cca in the middle, plus take into consideration shape of blade.Or maybe I would experiment a bit with putting those 2 vertical lines more to right?Im sure there is math behind it and maybe you you are going to tell me right away it is nonsense:)
hi Ken,
how exactly did you measure please? I have very long knife to sharpen - more than 30cm and I would probably need to adapt Jan's template. Many thanks.
Quote from: Ken S on October 28, 2015, 10:12:32 AM
Jan,
Thank you for posting this useful visual aid.
I came up with the 139mm length by noting the minimum and maximum distances with my three most commonly used kitchen knives, paring (with Tormek small knife tool in knife jig); slicer; and chef's knife. 139mm was around midpoint of the common part of the range, and allowed some room for grinding wheel diameter wear.
I would encourage all of you to do these measurements for yourselves. It takes only a very few minutes, and will deepen your understanding of the process.
Jan, I will print your drawing and incorporate it into my knife sharpening. Good work.
Ken
Quote from: torr on July 10, 2020, 09:56:37 AM
ok, so I should probably come back to imaginary line between point and heel of blade and set jig cca in the middle, plus take into consideration shape of blade.Or maybe I would experiment a bit with putting those 2 vertical lines more to right?Im sure there is math behind it and maybe you you are going to tell me right away it is nonsense:)
No... especially don't do the "imaginary line..." setup.
It may not look right to have the jig so close to the belly/tip area on a long blade, but for lack of a better term, that's where the "action is", in other words that's the area that is affected whether you pivot the blade or lift the handle to reach the tip. The long straight portion isn't affected.
But, I did a search on the model you wrote, and it doesn't look like there's much curve to it? If that's the case. I would clamp the knife parallel to the edge of the main part of the blade... you still may have to set it closer to the tip, but not as close as the template indicates, since there's not much curve.
Mark the entire edge with a Sharpie make a light pass and see where it's removed along the entire edge, and adjust as needed. (Do this on both sides).
Ken's measurement is the Projection Distance... the distance from the blade edge to the Stop Collar... it don't really apply to what you're trying to figure out here.
Thank you for reply. No there is not much curve on it. Thing is that it was sharpened previously by different sharpener and I wanted to create as regular bevel as possible- because when it came to me, it did not have it.So this is why Im asking for some way how to make it.
I asked about the way how Ken measured data because he mentioned he took it from his 3 standard knives, and I think that Global 16 is bigger than standard kitchen knife:-)
BTW.Why not to use "imaginary line" ? Many thanks for help.
Tomas
Quote from: torr on July 10, 2020, 02:38:21 PM
Thank you for reply. No there is not much curve on it. Thing is that it was sharpened previously by different sharpener and I wanted to create as regular bevel as possible- because when it came to me, it did not have it.So this is why Im asking for some way how to make it.
I asked about the way how Ken measured data because he mentioned he took it from his 3 standard knives, and I think that Global 16 is bigger than standard kitchen knife:-)
BTW.Why not to use "imaginary line" ? Many thanks for help.
Tomas
Blades that don't have much curve have some flexibility in adjustment. The next question (should have asked before), do you lift the handle to reach the tip, or pivot the blade? If you do the latter, one thing you can do is draw a straight line across the wheel, and with the machine off, set the straight part of the blade on the line, then move and pivot the blade to reach the tip. You basically want the belly/tip area to stay close to the line, so you set the clamp accordingly. (Here's an old picture that kinda shows what I mean)...
(https://image.ibb.co/c5OAu5/IMG_0041.jpg)
The "imaginary line" setup came from sharpeners that clamp the blade in place, like a KME or Wicked Edge, and the stone is on a pivot. It actually works there more by coincidence... but it doesn't apply to how the Tormek setup works.
thank you for answer.It is very helpful.
I lift the handle. When I did pivot move, i was getting not equal bevel on the tip. Is there some hint for this kind of sharpening method movement?
Quote from: torr on July 10, 2020, 03:10:43 PM
thank you for answer.It is very helpful.
I lift the handle. When I did pivot move, i was getting not equal bevel on the tip. Is there some hint for this kind of sharpening method movement?
Basically what I just showed... you want to keep the edge close to the line on the stone as it pivots. There's a thread on it here: To Pivot or Not to Pivot... (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2589.0). (Set aside some time, it's 9 pages). :D
thank you.Idid not write it clear,sorry.I meant some tip for lift handle movemenet:)But I will check forum in more details,it has to be discussed already:)
Tomas,
the attached picture shows how I would mount the knife in the knife jig.
For such a big knife as the G-16 the projection distance 139 mm is too small.
Tip sharpening is a trade-off between pivoting and handle lifting. If the shape of the blade corresponds well with my template, than pivoting is the dominant movement to get equal bevel on the tip.
Jan
Quote from: torr on July 10, 2020, 03:49:39 PM
thank you.Idid not write it clear,sorry.I meant some tip for lift handle movemenet:)But I will check forum in more details,it has to be discussed already:)
Ah. There may be some info on that too in the other thread. But there's no set rules, other than what you've already started to figure out... it also is dependent on where you clamp the blade in relation to the belly/tip area.
Easiest way to learn is to get a knife you can practice on, mark the blade with a Sharpie, then clamp the blade in various locations (close to the tip, in the middle, close to the heel), and learn where metal is removed in each location.
Quote from: torr on July 10, 2020, 10:21:12 AM
hi Ken,
how exactly did you measure please? I have very long knife to sharpen - more than 30cm and I would probably need to adapt Jan's template. Many thanks.
Quote from: Ken S on October 28, 2015, 10:12:32 AM
Jan,
Thank you for posting this useful visual aid.
I came up with the 139mm length by noting the minimum and maximum distances with my three most commonly used kitchen knives, paring (with Tormek small knife tool in knife jig); slicer; and chef's knife. 139mm was around midpoint of the common part of the range, and allowed some room for grinding wheel diameter wear.
I would encourage all of you to do these measurements for yourselves. It takes only a very few minutes, and will deepen your understanding of the process.
Jan, I will print your drawing and incorporate it into my knife sharpening. Good work.
Ken
Tomas,
I arrived at the 139 mm projection figure as a common length which would accommodate most knives without having to reset the support bar or jig length. In your case, with essentially one knife of concern, I would recommend ignoring the 139mm length and using a Projection length which fits your knife. If your knife presently has a good bevel angle, I would just adjust the support bar Distance using the marker technique. Or you could use any of the computer programs if you wish.
Is the standard US-105 support bar long enough for your knife? If not, you have several options:
The best (and most expensive) choice is to purchase the expanded range Tormek US-430. This is a support which has both more length and height. It is also around $100US. If you frequently need more length or height, this is your best choice.)
The other choice is to use the Tormek platform jig. While this option is not fully jig supported, it is much steadier than freehand. You can use it set for one side, and then carefully sliding it for the other side. A much better choice is to clamp a homemade diving board onto it which allows you to fully sharpen both bevels without moving it. This arrangement is very fully described on the forum as either Herman's Homemade Small Platform or Ionut's small platform. (Herman's is a more permanent set up; Ionut's is just clamped on.)
Ken
Jan,
thank you very much,I appreciate that you spend time on this. I had knife in the same position prior I wrote here, it just looked to me not right.But now when I saw that you had it in the same position I feel much more sure to use your template also for longer knives.
Ken,
thank you very much for answer.Regarding lenght of bar,I was in the limits of its size,but I had only couple mm in reserve.Working with such long knife with my setup was not comfy.Bevel was not good,on heel it was like 14 maybe less, and then it got various degrees on the blade lenght.Other problem was that bevels were not same on each size.I sharpened the knife now best I could, it is very sharp and has very good apex-I was able to peel layers from paper sheet surface.
I will read here further threads, I though I know enough, but it is now true:)
Jan,
Man, does that template work!! It is the answer to even edge bevels - what a relief. You got it so right.... hat's off to you.
I love it when something just works, without further fiddling and fabrication.
The beer's on me!
Gary