Tormek Community Forum

In the Shop => General Tormek Questions => Topic started by: grepper on August 22, 2014, 05:40:29 PM

Title: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: grepper on August 22, 2014, 05:40:29 PM
I was given an old pair of hedge trimmers to sharpen.  I was a little surprised because I didn't think anyone used giant scissors anymore to trim their bushes, but then I suppose if you just had oh, maybe one small shrub, you could use something like that.

Anyway, the poor things condition was pitiful and heart-wrenching to see.  Not only were they suffering from debilitating rust, but someone had apparently been doing "things" to them, probably late at night down in the basement with the door securely locked behind them so no one would hear the painful screams of the torture they were inflicting.  I suspect this was an attempt at sharpening, but with what?  A chain saw?  A wood rasp?  Oh, the horror. 

I know for some, the following images may be disturbing, so I will understand if you must turn away.

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/DSCN4554_zpsb2cc22d2.png)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/DSCN4568_zps2eee4a88.png)

Oh my. 

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/DSCN4575_zps3cc761a9.png)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/DSCN4570_zps64bc510d.png)

Is this sharpening?  Those grooves are as deep as they look.

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/DSCN4574_zps410963ff.png)

It was obvious that the beleaguered tool badly needed some time to relax and recuperate.  So I threw together a little hot tub for it to soak in for a couple of hours.

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/DSCN4562_zpsa0f340dd.png)

Double, double. Toil and trouble.
Fire burn and cauldron bubble.
Round and round the cauldron goes,
now in the poison entrails go.
Eye of newt, and skin of toad,
deep into the cauldron goes.
Wool of bat, skin of snake,
In the cauldron boil and bake.
Double, double. Toil and trouble.
Fire burn and cauldron bubble.

Look at the pretty colors!  I think it's really quite beautiful.  It's art!

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/DSCN4608_zps0d6172b1.png)

Two hours later...

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/DSCN4580_zps9210e34e.png)

Moral to the story:  Got rust?  Not a problem!  Just give 'er a little bath for a couple of hours, and Bob's yur uncle.  If you haven't tried it, when you do, you'll be gobsmacked!
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Rob on August 23, 2014, 08:25:33 AM
I think its absolutely commendable that charities like yours exist to take the time and trouble to help these poor souls who have lost their way.  The care and love you put into helping restore their interest in an honest days work will surely go a long way to rehabilitating them after the terrible trauma they have suffered.

I myself will be lobbying the powers that be to help bring legislation forward to curtail the cruel practice of "rust baiting".  It really is quite obscene and the sooner the Government gets on board then the sooner their suffering will be over.

I'm certain those garden sheers and their family will wish to join me in thanking your team from the bottom of our hearts.  Sniff sniff.
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Herman Trivilino on August 23, 2014, 04:56:47 PM
Nice work, Mark.  Excellent post, too.  Thanks for sharing.

I still use a pair of of those to trim my shrubs. 

It looks like the previous attempt at sharpening was done with a floor sander!   ;D
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: grepper on August 24, 2014, 04:36:54 AM
Forgot to say thanks Rob for putting out that link about electrolysis rust removal a few posts back. I hadn't thought about it much until I saw what that dude did with his vice.  That was impressive!  So, thanks Rob!  :).

When I was a kid I used electrolysis and tossing chunks of zink into hydrochloric acid to make hydrogen that we would put into balloons and then make them explode by putting a lighter under them as they floated around. (Hours of fun there!). The zink thing was far more productive.

And Herman, when I saw that attempt at "sharpening" I wondered that if you wanted to reproduce that damage to another blade, how could you do it?  What tool could you possible use to make gouges like that in steel?

If you check out the close up of the "sharpened" edge under where I said, "Is this sharpening?  Those grooves are as deep as they look", at the left of the picture, 3 of the gouges start much higher on the bevel than the rest of them.  But check out how far away the gouges are from each other.  What could possibly be so coarse as to do that to steel?

Did they like, hang off the back of a car and drag the blade on the pavement? 

I'm at a loss... A floor sander would have done a better job.  A bench grinder with a 5 grit stone? 



Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Rob on August 24, 2014, 03:40:08 PM
ur very welcome Mark :-)
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Mike Fairleigh on August 25, 2014, 12:50:48 AM
Great post.  If more people understood the way bushes react to pruning, they would still use tools like this.  Those gas-powered "hedge trimmers" are a sure path to destruction of the plant.  DAMHIKT.
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: grepper on August 25, 2014, 03:51:08 AM
Yea, Mike you are absolutely right. I have some kind of juniper shrubs that surround my whole house, so I have succumbed to firing up the gas powered thing.  So I have shrubs with about an inch of green just on the outside.

It still takes lie 3-4 hours to trim the things.  If were to carefully trim each shrub, letting light into the middle to thicken them up, I wouldn't have time to sharpen stuff!  ::)
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Rob on August 25, 2014, 12:06:06 PM
Whats this????  Plants respond differently to manual shears vs powered??  How so?
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Mike Fairleigh on August 26, 2014, 05:12:41 AM
Well, of course plants don't know whether the blade cutting them is powered by muscles or a motor.  But many plants will branch in 2 or more directions everywhere and every time they are cut.  So if you prune carefully by hand, you can have great control over how/where/to what degree the plant grows.  Japanese Bonsai is an extreme illustration of this.  When you take the gas powered beast to it, they tend to get bushier and bushier, to the point where they don't look right, and the foliage all concentrates at the very ends of the branches (mainly because the thicker-than-normal foliage prevents any sunlight from penetrating the surface).

I do understand the need to speed things up when you have a lot to prune.  We had yews almost completely around the perimeter of the house.  When they began to get big, I bought a nice Shindaiwa (now Echo) hedge trimmer.  Within a few years they went from beautiful to not so much and I wound up selling the trimmer.  A combination of the pruning damage and the ground settling around the foundation caused us to have to rip them all out and start over.  I've decided to prune them by hand, even if I have to do 2-3 of them per evening over the course of a few weeks.
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: grepper on September 05, 2014, 03:17:15 PM
Hey Kids!  Check out the

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/NP_zps0999e157.jpg)

Rust-a-Way Pro 2000!

New! Height adjustable carbon anodes! 
Improved!  Easy on, easy off anode hanger assemblies.  Quickly switch between different sized tanks  – no tools or drilling required!

Imagine the hours of fun that could be yours with the new Rust-a-Way Pro 2000!

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/DeRusto-600_zpsc9c85d32.png)

Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Rob on September 05, 2014, 03:54:11 PM
I must get me one of those suckers :-)

I think I'll make sure mine has a cathode as well though :-)
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: grepper on September 05, 2014, 04:07:57 PM
Yea.  Not much fun without a nice, rusty cathode!  :)
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Jambe on September 06, 2014, 01:12:38 AM

Just remember Positive goes to the Anode.   :)
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: grepper on June 30, 2015, 06:23:06 PM
My wife found this pitiful, forlorn wrench.  It had been forsaken, left to die and slowly return to the earth.  How sad!

But now, thanks to the Rust-a-Way 2000, it is rejuvenated! With even normal care will surely outlast me, and have a happy, useful life!

The old Rust-a-Way 2000 always makes me happy.  :)

(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/Wrench01_zpsmqd1nuyq.png)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/Wrench02_zpsmhogxha4.png)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/Wrench03_zps2e2apanf.png)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/Wrench04_zps3al3lzrv.png)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/Wrench05_zps0ffilzvr.png)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/Wrench06_zpsn8djnwoe.png)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/Wrench07_zpszz59pawt.png)
(http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y441/grepper00/Wrench08_zpsv0kqtrmm.png)

Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Rob on June 30, 2015, 08:07:58 PM
It is truly amazing what electrolysis can achieve, a real life resurrection if ever there was one.
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: Elden on June 30, 2015, 08:34:34 PM
   It looks nice, Mark. Only, it looked totally usable before you started. I would like to see one those field finds done that we would occasionally would find while working ground on the farm. After several years in the soil, they made that look like minor surface rust. I am sure they would have major pitting showing after the cleanup.
Looks great!
Title: Re: Rust removal - electrolysis
Post by: grepper on June 30, 2015, 11:11:33 PM
True, true Elden.  It was sort of useable prior to cleanup. It hadn't completely frozen up yet, but the thumb screw was very difficult to turn and it would hang.  The resistance spring in the screw had started to rust, so it would have been a goner had it not been for its good fortune in getting salvaged.  Probably could have cut up some other spring to replace it if need be   Now it's nice, smooth, lubricated with Super Lube and rust protected in there.

You are correct.  Unfortunately electrolysis won't fill pitting if present, and badly rusted stuff always has more or less pitting.  Nickel electroplating would fill pitting to some extent though.

One thing that electrolysis does well is to remove rust from any pitting and small areas that a wire brush would not touch, and does not abrade the surface further. .  Great surface prep after cleaning.

Anyway, its degradation is halted and it's a much happier and more useable tool now that no longer turns your hand brown.

I'll try to dig up a real archaeological find if I can find one, and post the results. :)