I bought my Tormek Supergrind 2000 back in 2002. I've been using it all these years, and ignored the warning signs of wear: squealing bearings. But the other day the main shaft would no longer spin unless I exerted a lot of torque by hand, so it was time to take it apart and see what's what. The grindstone had worn from the original diameter of 250 mm to about 200 mm. I broke it trying to free it from the main shaft.
If I had it to do over I would have instead removed the drive wheel from the other end of the main shaft, and then driven the main shaft out still attached to the grindstone. The main shaft was rusted around and into the bearing at the grindstone end of the main shaft, so I don't know if I could have done it this way without breaking the grindstone. But it would have been worth a try.
So, anyway, after breaking the grindstone, I chipped away the rust from the main shaft, which was quite a job. The grindstone had pretty much melded itself into the rust-encrusted mainshaft. I had to chip rust away just to remove the bearing from the main shaft. I managed to get it cleaned up and lubricated, installed a new grindstone, and I was back in business. Except for one thing. The new grindstone wobbles, and so does the honing wheel.
So, I've ordered a new main shaft (MSK-250 Upgrade kit) and I'm hoping that'll fix me up.
My question is this: What do you think caused all the rust? And what can I do to prevent it from recurring? One thing I used to do was leave the water in the tray after each use. I think that leaving the water in the tray could cause the grindstone to wick the water in the tray up into the center of the grindstone, keeping the main shaft wet and causing it to rust.
I'm hoping that the new stainless steel main shaft, along with the practice of not leaving water in the tray, will help prevent this from recurring. The other thing I plan to do is use a dust cover.
Is there anything else I can do to help keep the machine in good working order?
Herman,
The stainless main shaft will prevent this from happening again. You're right that leaving water in the tray caused the problem originally. To be honest, it took a great deal of vigilance to prevent rust with the old shafts. Now, it's not a problem.
Yesterday the new main shaft arrived (MSK-250). You recommend Tri-Flo or Slick-50 One-Lube as a lubricant for the bearings? I guess I shouldn't use regular axle grease, or lithium grease?
White lithium is fine, but be stingy with it. It doesn't need much.
The MSK-250 doesn't include the right-handed nut that secures the drive wheel! Is this intentional?
Installed the new main shaft today, and am happy to report a wobble-free grindstone. Now, I should be ready to go another 7 years! Longer, probably, because I won't have to worry about rust on the main shaft.
Thanks for posting this, I will go and take a look at mine and consider upgrading the shaft also.
For what it's worth, I've noticed my stone rusting a bit if I leave it overnight. I've taken to cleaning it out the water tray everytime I finish using it. I know I have the stainless steel shaft, but even stainless will rust given time. As for the rust on the stone, I'm sure it has little or no operational affect on it. I was amazed at how quickly it would stain. I love my T-7 tho, how fast it works. I am curious to see what it would look like after 7 years.
I have found that Honerite Gold, made by shield technologies is extremely useful for preventing rust. It comes as a concentrate that you mix with the water, and makes the water not cause rust. It sounds too good to be true but it does actually work. I'm surprised Tormek haven't released their own branded version as it is great for grinding carbon steels and for preventing rust of the Tormek itself.
http://shieldtechnology.biz/toolcareproducts.html
Quote from: tb444 on April 12, 2010, 01:13:28 AM
I have found that Honerite Gold, made by shield technologies is extremely useful for preventing rust. It comes as a concentrate that you mix with the water, and makes the water not cause rust. It sounds too good to be true but it does actually work. I'm surprised Tormek haven't released their own branded version as it is great for grinding carbon steels and for preventing rust of the Tormek itself.
http://shieldtechnology.biz/toolcareproducts.html
I have found the same products available here in the states. visit http://www.boratool.com/hone-right-gold-250ml , it really works well.
Like many others here, I have a Supergrind 2000 that I have had for probably 20-25 years (pre-serial number) and I have the rusted shaft problem and want to replace it. Do I need to have anything other than the new MSK-250 stainless steel shaft? Any other nuts or bushings needed?
Welcome to the forum. I believe that it includes the necessary items. The bushings are included. You will need to use your old nut that retains the drive wheel and the knob for the honing wheel. Hopefully your grinding wheel is not bonded to the old shaft. If it is, it is quite a process to get the grinding wheel off without cracking it.
As Elden said, it comes with the stainless shaft, the quick release left hand thread nut, and two bushings. First you do need to get the stone off without breaking it, or you need to buy a new stone. You also need the grease that you were supposed to use (that didn't keep it from rusting), to lubricate the bushings as well as coating the shaft. I used Superlube, because it was what I had handy.
I would also recommend having some sandpaper handy, in case the rubber wheel is developing a bump, or feels hard.
Welcome to the forum, Doug (dopauls). If you go to the upgrades tab on tormek.com, you will find a video by Alan Holtham showing changing out the shaft to the EZYlock. Incidentally, the "dry side" parts are not included in the kit because they normally do not rust. From personal experience, unless Tormek has included a diagram, I would make a sketch during disassembly. The procedure is not complicated or lengthy. (unless your grinding wheel is frozen)
Keep us posted.
Ken
Thank you all. I will keep you updated on my progress.
Doug
Hello,
Not sure when I purchased my Tormek 2000, but it was over 10years ago and I'm still reeling from the $450 cost! Don't get me wrong, it's a great tool and has performed well, but for what it is, an electric motor, grinding wheel and frame, it's darn expensive.
This evening I had to turn a taper tap into a plug, because of a blind hole, and found the same as suggested elsewhere in this thread..... Tormek wasn't running smooth, binding up, and when I went to remove the grinding wheel, the 3/4" nut just turned off. Really badly rusted, half the side of the nut just flaked away.
The bit I don't understand here is that nobody seems to be challenging Tormek about their assertion that the new stainless steel shafts are an upgrade! ??? Really?
This is to fix a serious design flaw. The ONLY way to justify the initial cost is that it's a "once in a lifetime" purchase. And as such it can't have this type of design flaw. In my view, they should be replacing these shafts for free for owners like us.
Disgruntled... >:(
Hi Kwakazaki, welcome to the forum!
I some ways I'm sympathetic with your opinion, especially considering a known wet working environment where it would seem obvious that rust would be a problem. Could it have been better designed from the start? Sure!
That stated, I suppose there is another point of view too. Evil rust is always a well known, expected issue with tools. I even built an electrolysis tank to give rusty tools a second chance at life. Considering the obvious possibility of rust, the periodic maintenance of removing the wheel and applying some grease would probably have prevented the problem. You are not alone however, and the issue has been discussed here before. This thread has 6,000+ views!
All machinery is subject to environmental degradation and wear. Saw blades dull, but could have been diamond coated to begin with. Bushing wear and suffer runout, but could have been high quality, longer lasting bearings from the start.
Cars are a pretty good example. Are they expensive? Yup. Do they wear out, require maintenance, and despite their high cost suffer the inevitable fate of becoming rusty hulks not worth repairing? Yup. Is there a huge aftermarket industry producing replacement parts and endless "upgrades"? Indeed there is.
One thing I have learned is that less expensive machines generally have a much lower MTBF, and in the long run operational cost may exceed that of more expensive, higher quality tools because either the whole machine turns to junk and must be replaced, or parts have short lifetimes and constant replacement must be considered. With any machine there is always some sort of operational cost even if from nothing other than expendables like blades, tires or bearings, etc.
Maybe it might make you happier if you consider that what you paid for was a machine that provided ten years of reliable service with apparently little or no maintenance! After all, only a person endowed with above average intelligence would make such an erudite decision so many years ago. :)
Ken, welcome to the forum.
The 2000 was made before the stainless shaft, I believe. Mark hit the nail on the head. The car analogy was going through my mind before I read his reply. We give much more money for a vehicle, yet we do not think it strange to add gasoline to the tank, check and change the oil, replace the tires, or how many other maintenance procedures. In this day of throwaway wives (or even do not get married), the maintenance of the family fire of devotion is becoming less heard of. I can, personally, say it is well worth it!
The earlier Tormeks, likewise, were worth the maintenance that they required. I do believe, corporate Tormek could have made the necessity of the shaft, wheel maintenance of the non stainless shaft, better known.
The stainless shaft is a definite upgrade. The rusted shaft syndrome is on the pre stainless shaft.
If your wheel is stuck, use it until the wheel has to be replaced. Mine is rusted on, cracked, and under 200mm. It is an old square frame model that was rusted solid before I bought it. It still works just fine. If I had not tried to force the grinding wheel off, it would not be cracked and would have had a longer useful life than it will have as a result of the crack.
+1....I think Mark's comments are balanced and reasonable although I too have some sympathy with the "expensive" viewpoint. The bed fellow of expensive is often innovation and I think it's fair to say that Tormek have created a fair few patented jigs in their time and with the new SVD 186 clearly are still doing so.
So, try to put that high price "sting" behind you, share your thoughts here and you'll be feeling better before you can say "if only I had 450 bucks" :-)
I, too am sympathetic. I also agree with Grepper, Elden and Rob.
I think it is important to remember that the present EZYlock stainless steel shaft is not just a like for like replacement shaft in stainless steel. If it was just that, in my opinion, it would still be an upgrade.
However, the new shaft also incorporates the new EZYlock left hand thread feature. I think the EZYlock is at least as significant an improvement as being made with stainless steel. Changing grinding wheels is now very simple. I even remove my grinding wheel after each session to dry off and clean the shaft and inside of the Tormek.
I upgraded the shaft of my original T7 to the EZYlock. The original shaft was stainless and like new. At the time, The new shaft struck me as a lot of well engineered and machined stainless for $66US.
I have posted my low tech idea of placing a piece of Scotch tape on top of the Tormek with an arrow going away with the grinding wheel on the right. This indicates the direction to push the grinding wheel to loosen. Once you do this, the EZYlock is a real joy.
Ken
Quote from: Kwakazaki on March 07, 2016, 04:06:45 AM
The bit I don't understand here is that nobody seems to be challenging Tormek about their assertion that the new stainless steel shafts are an upgrade! ??? Really?
I believe the "upgrade" refers to the EzyLock feature.
QuoteThis is to fix a serious design flaw. The ONLY way to justify the initial cost is that it's a "once in a lifetime" purchase.
I agree completely. I was rather upset by the fact that my main shaft had rusted to the point of ruining the expensive grindstone. I should have maintained it better. On the other hand, I don't believe Tormek has ever admitted to a flawed design. They simply refer to their "fixes" as upgrades and innovations.
In the end, the cost of anything is justified only by the fact that it's what people are willing to pay.
Through my lifes journey and I am now 60 years old, I have broken a lot of things and worn out more than that. I have had cause to have certain items repaired or replaced. Through it all, I have had more firearm and firearms related companies come through for me than any other. Smith and Wesson refinished a nickel plated revolver for me at NO charge when I BROKE a pin that seated into one side of the frame. Lyman replaced some bullet molds when I complained the alignment pins had gone awry. Ruger swapped out some rifle magazines when I said they jammed. In another area, New Balance sent me some new shoes when a pair I had stored in my home, in a closet apparently dry rotted! Yes, I had them stored for up to 10 years but likely less and them pulled them out to wear. The soles literally fell apart. I returned them to the manufacturer and said "why did my shoes do this"? They of course had no comment but sent me a new pair. All companies reserve the right to make improvements and/ or modifications to their products. It is unfortunate that Tormek did not foresee the likelihood of the stones structure creating a capillary type action and wetting the drive shaft and rusting it. Strange that anyone would not see that though when you know the stone soaks up water. I have a couple of machines that I haven't removed the stones from in years and am now afraid to try! IF, I get up the nerve and they are not rusted/fused to the drive shaft; I am going to wrap the threads in plumbers tape aka Teflon tape in an effort to prevent seizure.
Hi,
If there are any problems with a Tormek product I really hope that the user will contact support@tormek.se for help.
Sincerely,
Stig
What I generally do not read in the various posts about rusted shafts is the poster noting that he had followed Tormek's recommended procedure of removing the grindstone and shaft annually to clean and regrease the bushings. Or that the poster and fastidiously emptied the water trough between sessions. The handbook is definite about the annual cleaning and regreasing. The handbook recommends regular changing the water. It should be more definite.
If I notice the start of rust on my tools, I try to remove it promptly and wipe it with an oily rag. I certainly would not ignore a rusty Tormek shaft. With regular maintenance, a frozon rusty shaft should be rare.
If an automobile engine fails within the 36,000 mile warranty, I would expect the dealer to insist upon examining the oil change records before installing a new engine.
I agree with Stig that contacting Tormek directly is a preferable way to handle repair problems. I do not believe that any company would be comfortable making unusual service commitments above and beyond its stated warranty on a world wide forum.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on March 11, 2016, 04:10:13 PM
What I generally do not read in the various posts about rusted shafts is the poster noting that he had followed Tormek's recommended procedure of removing the grindstone and shaft annually to clean and regrease the bushings. Or that the poster and fastidiously emptied the water trough between sessions.
When I started this thread I specifically stated that I had failed at both these basic maintenance chores.
On the other hand, Jeff Farris stated that even with such care, it is difficult to keep the old steel main shaft from rusting.
By the way, following up on Jeff55's post, I noticed recently that some plumbing fixture manufacturers will replace stuff for free. Price-Pfister, for example sent me all of the parts I needed to rebuild a shower valve installed in 1979, including the adapter and all new trim pieces. At least one other manufacturer does the same.
[quote
By the way, following up on Jeff55's post, I noticed recently that some plumbing fixture manufacturers will replace stuff for free. Price-Pfister, for example sent me all of the parts I needed to rebuild a shower valve installed in 1979, including the adapter and all new trim pieces. At least one other manufacturer does the same.
[/quote]
Delta does the same thing. I had a particular model that ate washers. There was a leak every few months. All I had to do was call Delta and give them the model number and they sent a complete washer set. Now somewhere somehow some bean counter has determined that they can send replacement parts to THE FEW that call for them forever rather than make a superb product that will never need service. Stainless steel was used in firearms before the Tormek was invented. I do not know if Torgny knew what stainless steel was and what its advantages would be. We all know that even so called stainless will rust. Albeit a lot slower than ordinary ferrous steel. The only care that I take with my stones is to empty the water trough without fail. I can honestly say that I have never failed to empty the water trough.
Quote from: jeffs55 on March 12, 2016, 04:37:02 AM
Now somewhere somehow some bean counter has determined that they can send replacement parts to THE FEW that call for them forever rather than make a superb product that will never need service.
I believe it's a marketing strategy. People are more likely to buy the brand after having received that kind of excellent customer service. They figure that if they buy something and it breaks, they can count on getting that same service again.
I don't believe that anyone anywhere has every made a faucet that never requires maintenance.
QuoteThe only care that I take with my stones is to empty the water trough without fail. I can honestly say that I have never failed to empty the water trough.
It's also good practice to lube the bearings. If for no reason other than to keep the machine running smoothly and reduce wear on the bearings.
Hi,
We always help the customers with their problems. However, if a stone cracks after 10-20 years the stone has been used for a very long time and are most often in need for a replacement so we usually work out a good solution for the user.
But as I wrote earlier, its better to contact support first as it will take few days to get it sorted. I try to follow the forum on a daily basis but when traveling I can be on the road for 2-3 weeks or we might have vacation. The support is checked on a daily basis and will be the fastest way to help the user.
Sincerely,
Stig
Stig makes a good point. I would not expect Tormek or any company to publicly make commitments on a global forum offering services above and beyond its already generous warranty provisions. However, that does not mean that through support Tormek will not consider other options on a private case by case basis. This really needs to be done directly between the Tormek user and Tormek support.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on March 12, 2016, 02:13:37 PM
Stig makes a good point. I would not expect Tormek or any company to publicly make commitments on a global forum offering services above and beyond its already generous warranty provisions. However, that does not mean that through support Tormek will not consider other options on a private case by case basis.
Good point, Ken. Companies like Moen, Delta, and Price-Pfister follow that same model. They don't advertise free parts for life, but if you call and ask they will oblige.
Perhaps cultural differences are a factor here, too. Americans and Scandinavians may have different marketing expectations, practices, and communications protocols. And then there is the corporate culture of Tormek itself to consider. For example, they produce improvements but tend to shy away from discussions of the shortcomings that led to them.
As I said before, the bottom line is that a product is worth what customers are willing to pay for it. Good customer service is essential to any marketing scheme.
I believe we should expand our concept of customer service to include three catagories: Repair; Support; and Innovation.
I consider repair to be the prime catagory. The top priority here is whether repair (parts) are available. Using a ten year old product as an example, if parts are not available, the rest of customer service is a moot point. With Tormek, parts are readily available. In my opinion, the cost of repair parts, while an issue, is secondary to availibility. (I will cover a related topic in innovation). In fairness to Tormek, no one has mentioned extraordinary free service from any of Tormek's competitors
In the support catagory, if we include tech support, forums, manuals and videos, I believe Tormek is the head of the class. One former competitor produced an excellent hour long video featuring a well known woodworking expert and teacher. other companies have produced good videos. I know of at least two companies with very mediocre manuals. I know of one other company forum which has not seemed to get off the ground.
I think Tormek has produced some very good videos. I also wish Tormek would expand their video line.
In the innovation catagory, Tormek seems like the only contestant. I think this is a sad commentary on the industry. The clones seem like older model Tormeks with less attention to quality.
In the innovation catagory and related to the ten year old Tormek with the rust problem: Tormek no longer manufactures or sells the shaft which rusted. I give Tormek a lot of credit for only selling the upgrade. The rust problem stopped with the T7. Of course there are plenty of older Supergrinds with rusty shafts. Fortunately for those Tormek owners, Tormek is committed to the design philosophy of making improvements compatible with older models.fn
Ken
Over the years I have observed several posts regarding rusty shafts. I do not doubt that this has been a problem. I would guess the problem goes back to the earliest Tormek models (with regular steel shafts) and continued to roughly 2007 with the introduction of the T7 and stainless shaft.
What I do not have is a sense of how extensive these rust problems are. When I was demonstrating the Tormek at the Hartville show in November, several veteran Tormek owners stopped by. All were positive about their Tormeks, often more than fifteen years old, and none was interested in "upgrading" to a new model. I was somewhat surprised that none of them were even interested in a new stainless steel EZYlock shaft. They said their shafts were not rusted. Therefore, my question is:
What percent of older Tormeks are actually distressed by rusted shafts requiring major work to separate the shaft and the grinding wheel? I hope more of you with older Tormeks will post your experience with your shaft. (This might be an excellent opportunity for some of you who have been silently observing for many years to post.)
Please do.
Ken
Mark mine down as one. Bought used off EBay. It was frozen solid when I got it. Cracked the grinding wheel trying to remove it. Still am using it.
I have posted before, in my opinion, IF YOU HAVE A RUST BONDED WHEEL YOU CAN NOT GET OFF, LEAVE IT ALONE! Keep it dry when not using it, hopefully it will not crack the wheel. The wheel, while usable when cracked, will wear out faster than if it is not cracked.
Elden,
For the benefit of our newer members, if you knew what you know now, would you purchase that same Tormek with the frozoen shaft?
Ken
Ken,
I purchased my Tormek T-2000 about 15 years ago. It has the steel shaft, and the inner washer was indeed rusted. I attribute that mostly to the fact that I was too lazy and didn't empty the water tray after each use (that way I didn't have to wait to get the wheel re-saturated).
I didn't really find the "issue" until I went replace the original grinding wheel late last year (hence all the other posts about a T-47 to use old wheels ...).
But, I just took to a grinder that has a wire brush wheel, cleaned it and the shaft up, put everything back together (with a little lubricant).
I'm planning to add a Japanese stone, so I'll probably opt for a new shaft at that time. I do believe the reversal of the tightening nut will make the grinding wheel more secure.
Rich
Very good post, Rich.
My interest is solving the problem rather than assigning blame. In your case, especially with adding a second grinding wheel, the obvious solution is an EZYlock shaft. In addition to holding the grinding wheel securely, releasing the grinding wheel is a snap. In my experience placing a directional arrow is a great help. Do not be tempted to use Channelock pliers!
In addition to solving the rust problem, the EZYlock shaft is a genuine improvement.
Ken
The stone was separated from the rusty shaft, before I obtained mine. The stone was chipped in two places and he bought a replacement, before dispersing his shop, so his heirs/wife, didn't have to, without knowing values.
While leaving water in the tray, with it up on the stone, I think will cause problems, from what I have seen, two other factors can and do cause issues:
High humidity
Life getting in the way.
High humidity can be something that one has to spend thousands of dollars to fix (if they can). As an example a late neighbor would have a bit of water in her basement, when we had periods of heavy rain. Not from the rain, but the ground saturation, caused an underground spring, to fill up and push though other cracks, one under her house.
Life getting in the way can be lots of things. The cancer the original owner of my Tormek had that kept him out of the shop. Kids and all the things that change when you have them. Military service (are you going to tell them no, you have to service your Tormek?).
Extra grease, and doing it more often can help in the first. Not much can happen when life throws changes your way.
Good points, SADW.
Life can certainly get in the way, and high humidity is certainly a problem for any shop.
We cannot prevent some things. Therefore, I believe it is increasingly important to do what we can when and where we can. I hope by now that regular forum readers are dumping the water tray after sharpening sessions. The recommended annual cleaning and regreasing of the shaft and bushings is very important, important enough to consider doing it twice a year or quarterly if the shaft is not stainless.
Running a dehumidifier in a basement shop is essential. Raising the dehumidifier a foot or two makes it more efficient. Positioning it so that it the water can run through a hose into a floor drain will help prevent memory lapses.
Life is easier with an EZYlock shaft.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on March 17, 2016, 02:55:00 PM
Elden,
For the benefit of our newer members, if you knew what you know now, would you purchase that same Tormek with the frozoen shaft?
Ken
NO, I would not buy one with a frozen shaft. If I could back the clock up and start over knowing what I know now, without hesitation I would buy a new T7. Yes, it is a major expense. Fixing up a old unit is, as well. One could come out ahead with an old frozen up unit, IF ALL defects are known, repair expense is taken into account, and the unit is dirt cheap or free. Normally, first time potential buyers do not know the things to look for that spell trouble. I surely did not.
There have been other posts about buying used. If you do, here are a few things to look for and to do.
1 Glance it over, is the frame rusted? Condition of paint at the base?
2 Look at the grinding wheel. What is its diameter and condition?
3 Remove the grinding wheel. If you are using EBay, request a picture of the grinding wheel removed and one of the drive shaft where the wheel sits.
4 Is the honing wheel in good condition?
5 Is the drive wheel in good condition? Mine has crack lines in it, but still works fine. Someday it may have to be replaced.
6 If it is an older model, does it have the mount to allow the universal support bar to be used horizontally?
7 Make sure the water trough is not cracked.
8 Turn the unit on. It should start without having to spin it. How is the noise level? It should be quiet. Observe the drive shaft to make sure it is not bent. The grinding wheel should be relatively concentric. The truing tool will help this situation.
9 What jigs does it have? The truing tool and the stone grader are must have items.
Do you get the sense that I am discouraging buying a used unit without seeing it in person? If so, you are correct in that assumption.
To go further, for a first unit purchase, I would advise buying a new unit.
Well stated, Elden. Wise words from an honest Tormeker. I hope all prospective Tormek buyers read your post before doing anything.
Ken
I totally agree with Elden. However, for the benefit of those who truly believe the cost of a new Tormek is beyond their means:
1) Limit your search to a T7 or a T4. The T7 was introduced in 2007, and comes with a stainless steel shaft. Those made before 2010 do not have the EZYlock feature, however, having stainless shafts, they do not have the rust problem. The T4 is a fine product, and corrected the problems inherent with the T3. Do not be tempted by a T3.
2) Know the new market. Presently, a new T7 with full ten year warranty costs $600, usually with free shipping. A new T4 can be had with full seven year warranty for $399, again with free shipping. Used Tormeks are almost always overpriced. If the seller is the original owner, he will remember what his new cost was, and thinks of a new T7 as going for $665. Ne may or may not be aware of all the changes made over the years, including improvements to the jigs. If the seller bought the unit with the intention of reselling at a profit, he may have overpaid. You do not want to subsidize his overpayment.
3) Know the value and value detractors of a used unit. The big detractor is probably not having a warranty. While Tormeks are rugged machines and repairs are rare, replacing a motor can be very expensive. Even replacing a cracked drive wheel (as noted by Elden) is a fifty dollar part. I would consider no warranty as at least a hundred dollar value detractor.
Not having an EZYlock shaft knocks around seventy dollars off. Not having a micro adjust universal support bar knocks another fifty dollars. If the unit does not come with the new TT-50 truing tool, knock off another sixty if it has a usable diamond cluster or close to a hundred if it does not. Older "free included jigs" may or may not be the current models. Anyone who buys included jigs with the hope of using them at some time in the future will probably find they have been updated and are not such a bargain.
Elden is quite correct in warning new users that the best course is a new unit. The situation may be slightly different for experienced eyes open users. If I saw a reasonable looking T7 in the $200 to $240 price range, I would be sorely tempted to purchase it for either my SB or SJ grinding wheel. I would be very surprised if I saw such a unit priced that way. A Tormek is a long time investment. Expect to see regular upgrades; technology marches on. (Thank goodness!) Give yourself the best advantage when you are starting out; buy a new warrantied Tormek from an authorized dealer who charges only list price and includes shipping.
Ken
If I saw Tormek T7s in the up to $240 range, I believe that I would buy them all and resell them. On the other hand, I would keep as many as there are different stones and have dedicated machines...................and sell the rest. As you said, that is not going to happen. The fastest reload is a second gun and the fastest change of grind is a second machine.
Jeff,
Your comment gave me a good laugh. :) I totally agree. Sadly, in that price range I don't think there is any need to practice our wallet quick draw or clear off any bench space.
Ken
Quote from: jeffs55 on March 19, 2016, 05:37:22 AM
If I saw Tormek T7s in the up to $240 range, I believe that I would buy them all and resell them. On the other hand, I would keep as many as there are different stones and have dedicated machines...................and sell the rest. As you said, that is not going to happen. The fastest reload is a second gun and the fastest change of grind is a second machine.
It only took my about 8 years of watching to find my 2000 under that price range. Then I asked here about refinishing it, before a simple cleaning, revealed what I thought was going to be chipped paint, was just some glue and sawdust it picked up on the bench (lucky).
I think the moral of this long topic is not to purchase a wet grinder which does not have a stainless steel shaft, or at least to add in the cost of a replacement stainless steel shaft to the total projected cost.
Ken