The reason I ask is that I am very happy with my current process of sharpening, diamond wheel then using the KS123 to set the same angle on the composite wheel as I suck at free hand honing, and a quick strop and I am good to go. Unfortunately, I have to take the diamond wheel off every time I strop which slows down my production. I contacted Tormek to see if they had any plans in the future for making a wheel the same 250mm as my diamond wheel so I didn't have to keep taking it off but unfortunately, they said no.
Looking on the internet, I found a company called SLIPAKNIVEN that sells felt deburring wheels that are 250mm so I checked on YouTube and found this video https://youtu.be/-HBpsQn7frY?si=5Vz2_x34dnnYYCMC
It looks great and would solve a lot of my problems and was wondering if anyone has had any experience using one and the pro's and con's of them.
Thanks
I have tried the felt wheel but I gave up after 10+ uses. In the best cases I could see an insignificant improvement from the leather honing wheel (high hardness steel), and in most cases I saw the BESS score worsen. It is not statistically significant, though, and maybe I woudl have gotten better over time.
One word of caution though... There probably is a reason Tormek didn't make a 250mm honing wheel : it would get in the way when sharpening long knives. So you'll have to take your honing wheel off ;)
Quote from: Rossy66 on Yesterday at 03:08:21 PMThe reason I ask is that I am very happy with my current process of sharpening, diamond wheel then using the KS123 to set the same angle on the composite wheel as I suck at free hand honing, and a quick strop and I am good to go. Unfortunately, I have to take the diamond wheel off every time I strop which slows down my production. I contacted Tormek to see if they had any plans in the future for making a wheel the same 250mm as my diamond wheel so I didn't have to keep taking it off but unfortunately, they said no.
Looking on the internet, I found a company called SLIPAKNIVEN that sells felt deburring wheels that are 250mm so I checked on YouTube and found this video https://youtu.be/-HBpsQn7frY?si=5Vz2_x34dnnYYCMC
It looks great and would solve a lot of my problems and was wondering if anyone has had any experience using one and the pro's and con's of them.
Thanks
I think there are multiple, confounding things going on here, both with your process and desires and with Vadim's video and they are interrelated and or multi-faceted (and I'm struggling to figure out where to start).
1) set the same angle on the composite (for honing),
2) USB configuration,
3) take the grinding wheel off every time, and
4) position of the honing wheel.
1) Same Angle:
After Vadim's game changing research on honing angles for different types of steel, it is clear that honing at the same angle as the bevel grinding angle is less effective than selectively and purposefully setting the angle 1-2º higher than the grinding angle is far more effective at removing the burr. That is clearly shown in the linked video, but that is not even where he demonstrates it as effectively as in some of his other work. If you haven't yet, get, study and understand Vadim's "Deburring Book (https://www.amazon.com/Knife-Deburring-Science-behind-lasting/dp/179626458X)".
2) USB Configuration:
You didn't say it, but is sounds like you are using the USB in the horizontal (front) slots for honing. This was the standard Tormek method until Vadim invented the "Frontal Vertical Base" (FVB), which adds a vertical adjustment component to the front USB position. Use of the FVB is clearly shown in Vadim's video and is key to, 1) lessening the conflict between the grinding and honing wheels and setting the honing angle to greater than the grinding angle. The FVB has become such an integral part of using a Tormek that Tormek itself modified their (MB-100) Multi-Base to incorporate the same functionality as aftermarket FVBs (a highly unusual move for Tormek), in their MB-102 Multi-Base.
3) Take the grinding wheel off every time:
The conflict between the honing and grinding wheels had been a long time problem, until advent of the FVB, necessitating removal of the grinding wheel in order to hone. Using an MB-102 or FVB puts the USB at a higher position over the honing wheel and, depending on the knife, can eliminate or reduce the movement conflict with the grinding wheel. This is still with using the leather or composite wheel for honing. I am one of probably many that find it still works better to take the grinding wheel off every time when honing and for me it is just part of the process.
4) Position of the honing wheel:
It sounds as though you want to put at 250mm honing wheel on the honing wheel side of your Tormek. I think that will just exacerbate the conflict issues, even with the use of and FVB (or MB-102). When I was using a 10" rock hard felt wheel for honing - it was mounted on the grinding wheel side of my T8, so honing was not done on the honing wheel side. If you notice, this is exactly where Vadim has his felt wheel mounted. Using the felt wheel in that position obligates changing the wheels every time. It is inescapable. One way to avoid this would be to have a second Tormek dedicated to honing.
I agree with Ricks replies 100%.
With regards the felt honing wheel though.
My personal experience with using one (bought from Vadim) was not that good.
Couldn't get it to produce Vadims' results no matter what I did and how much I tinkered with it. Always higher Bess initially and always higher Bess after subsequent honing on leather.
Enquiries on this forum produced mixed conclusions.
I wanted to make it work but gave up after much experimentation and frustration.
So to return to an old inconclusive subject:
Who in this community has good results with a felt wheel à la Vadim?
How, EXACTLY, have you made it work?
This is maybe a word of caution to the OP before they rush in headlong thinking the felt wheel will be game changing.
Thanks to everyone who replied and I apologize for not being more concise. I do have the MB102 and use it with a second USB that I bought but, unless the knife is small (pairing knife size) the handle still touches the diamond wheel when honing, no matter what the angle is. The reason for the same size honing wheel as the main diamond wheel is so I have handle clearance when honing so I can just flip the usb around (with the diamond wheel rotating away, I can never remember if that's edge trailing or leading) or use both USB's one for rotating towards me (my current sharpening position) and then rotate the machine around and use the USB in the MB102 for the honing to cut my overall time down.
Sorry if the explanation is not very good, I have seen the guy from Alexander Knife Sharpening with a 10' honing wheel on a T8 on some of his video's, I think it's leather, and the movement from sharpening to honing is quite effortless.
I do use the felt wheel, but I can't say it's a game changer.
For inspiration: I do think it's important that all the wheels I use are 250 mm. So I also have a leather wheel with a diameter of 250 mm. I use the M-102 as an FVB and use a long toolbar that I can use for both wheels. The wheels turn away from me.
This process means I don't have to change or adjust the setup as often.
That is exactly what I am trying to accomplish. I like the composite wheel as I don't need to use any polishing compound. May I ask where did you get your wheel from?