I want to make sure I am understanding the use of the KS-123.
The angle measured is the per side angle? And as such you can't use it if you want to put an angle of less than 16 degrees on a knife?
Sorry for such a basic question.
Quote from: AusSn on July 24, 2024, 04:50:33 PMI want to make sure I am understanding the use of the KS-123.
The angle measured is the per side angle? And as such you can't use it if you want to put an angle of less than 16 degrees on a knife?
Sorry for such a basic question.
Yes the angle measured is degrees per side. (They should add that to the manual.)
I am curious. Why would one want to sharpen a knife with a total angle less than 16°?
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on July 24, 2024, 07:16:40 PMI am curious. Why would one want to sharpen a knife with a total angle less than 16°?
Leather skiving knife is about 15 deg.
Quote from: John Hancock Sr on July 25, 2024, 02:39:02 AMQuote from: Ken S on July 24, 2024, 07:16:40 PMI am curious. Why would one want to sharpen a knife with a total angle less than 16°?
Leather skiving knife is about 15 deg.
John,
Sometimes we move forward by looking backward and at other jigs. When the SVD-185 was first introduced, the jig setting scale only went to 5. This was not quite enough for the popular Ellsworth Grind with bowl gouges. I first encountered the fix for this in the excellent video (included in the Woodturner's Info Box) by Jeff Farris. Jeff added an additional stop "number 6" on the SVD-185. Tormek later redesigned the SVD-185 to included number 6.
I also found this PDF which explained hor Torngy Jansson (inventor of the Tormek) had first modified a SVD-185 for a customer. The PDF is linked here:
http://www.woodwrecker.com/woodworking/how-to/EllsworthGrind.pdf
How does this relate to the 15° leather knife and the KS-123? Note the umber of microadjust turns and fractional turns to move one degree on the scale. Set the setting tool for 16° and remove it. Then adjust the microadjust by the predetermined number of turns.
The KS-123 is really designed primarily for kitchen knives. Thatdoes not mean that it can not also sharpen leather knives.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on July 25, 2024, 10:50:32 AM...
How does this relate to the 15° leather knife and the KS-123? Note the umber of microadjust turns and fractional turns to move one degree on the scale. Set the setting tool for 16° and remove it. Then adjust the microadjust by the predetermined number of turns.
...
This'll work. While not a linear progression, if you want to go lower than 8 dps by just 1-3 or 4 deg... I'd just use one complete revolution of the MicroAdjust for each degree. Easy to remember and consistent. (Switch to another method of setting the USB if accuracy is more important. ;) )
Or ... use a calculator ::)
I can see where various methods would work, including calculators or the marker method.
We should keep in mind that this discussion is now centered around 15° leather knives. How frequently will most of us encounter these knives or similar ones?
For the majority of knives which we actually sharpen, I believe the 8 to 25 degrees per side scale of the KS-123 is sufficient. My question is how many knives have we sharpened in the last year which do not fall in this range?
I acknowledge that there are other types of knives which do not fall within the range of the KS-123. Knives like cleavers and Serbian chef knives come to mind. Given a typical busy sharpening schedule like a Saturday morning at a farmers market, how many of these knives would one typically expect? My second question would be, how do you presently sharpen them? The marker method or calculators will still work for these outliers. I am not writing from actual high volume experience, so please feel free to disagree with me.
Ken
I would think that the knife jig would hit the stone at under 8° per side, but then I've never tried it.
Quote from: 3D Anvil on July 27, 2024, 06:39:47 AMI would think that the knife jig would hit the stone at under 8° per side, but then I've never tried it.
I encountered a similar situation. I wanted to see if an FVB is necessary for jig controlled honing with knives. It is not. There is a simpler, much less expensive solution. This other solution is also less convenient to use.
The problem is that the jig hits the plastic locking knobs of the horizontal sleeves. The plastic locking knob of the jig also bumps into the support bar. I swapped these three screws with socket set screws (grub screws). This almost completely solved the problem. The only remaining constraint was a minor bump from the back of the jig hitting the support bar. This part of the jig was substantial, so I corrected the problem by grinding off just a little. Problem solved. No need to elevate the jig.
If the jig is hitting the stone with degrees per side bevel angles less than 8°, why not just grind a little off of the jig? Jigs are not holy objects. (Caveat: Like 3D, I have not actually worked with a less than 8° knife.)
Ken
Quote from: AusSn on July 24, 2024, 04:50:33 PMI want to make sure I am understanding the use of the KS-123.
The angle measured is the per side angle? And as such you can't use it if you want to put an angle of less than 16 degrees on a knife.
Aus Sn, do you actually sharpen knives with these bevel angles? If so, then a workaround is needed and is not a difficult problem. If not, then the question is theoretical. What kind of problem do we have?
Ken
Quote from: 3D Anvil on July 27, 2024, 06:39:47 AMI would think that the knife jig would hit the stone at under 8° per side, but then I've never tried it.
Depends on the height of the knife. You can also achieve lower angles on some knives using the SVM-00.
Quote from: Ken S on July 27, 2024, 12:52:22 PMQuote from: AusSn on July 24, 2024, 04:50:33 PMI want to make sure I am understanding the use of the KS-123.
The angle measured is the per side angle? And as such you can't use it if you want to put an angle of less than 16 degrees on a knife.
Aus Sn, do you actually sharpen knives with these bevel angles? If so, then a workaround is needed and is not a difficult problem. If not, then the question is theoretical. What kind of problem do we have?
Ken
There could be other reasons, for example, you can also use a lower angle as an alternative to thinning a blade, then put a final edge on at a higher angle.
I would classify using the SVM-00 as a useful workaround.
Back to my question, is this discussion based on actual need on theoretical possible need?
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on July 27, 2024, 03:22:02 PMI would classify using the SVM-00 as a useful workaround.
...
Maybe that's what the "00" stands for. :D :D
I regret I did not phrase this more matter of factly. Something more like this; the KS-123 is designed for blades with a total angle of between 16 and 50 degrees.
I do not check the forum very often or I would have added this sooner.
For the record I do not have a leather knife.