Hello my name is Phil. I'd like to thank you upfront for any info you may have. I've watched many Videos, I'm new to Knife Sharpening. I can't remember if I've actually read or seen in videos, if running two diamond or CBN wheels at one time on a T8 is OK.
Can running 2 wheels become a warranty issue?
I know for sure I've noticed in videos that some half. I guess I can also email Tormek directly to find out but then I miss out connecting with you fine & skilled people.
Because then I have another question.
Thank you Phil
Phil,
I can not speak for Tormek; however, I can not imagine Tormek endorsing running two grinding wheels at the same time. The traditional Tormek technique has been to run one wheel, generally the SG-250, the alter the grit using the stone grader.
This technique has recently been modified with the composite honing wheel. When used dry, the composite honing wheel gives a slightly "bitier" surface that when used dampened. This was covered in two videos on the KnifeGrindersyoutube channel.
Although not officially endorsed by Tormek, the late Vadim Kraichuk of KnifeGrinders was well regarded at Tormek. Changing back and forth between the composite wheel and the leather honing wheel is very quick and less expensive than a diamond or CBN wheel.
Ken
I have no idea if running two wheels voids the warranty. I suspect it probably does, but I've been running mine that way for well over a year with no problems (dual CBN wheels). If you get an official response from Tormek I'd be curious to hear the answer.
Phil,
Please keep in mind the importance of the fifty year warranty with your T8 Black Edition.
I would lean toward the versatility and warranty safety of just purchasing a second stripped down T8 Custom. That would let you use both a second grinding wheel and both the composite and leather honing wheels.
Ken
I think it is worth asking Tormek about the warranty, but I wonder why it would be a concern such that it would void the warranty? How does putting a second grinding wheel on the left side of a T8 harm or degrade the machine?
The only thing I can think of is that the run time might increase if grinding on that second wheel makes the machine run longer than if you were only honing on that side. I'm making an assumption that no physical changes/modifications are made to the machine itself. That the manner of attaching a grinding wheel on that side is done in such away that does not irreversibly alter the machine.
I agree with others that Tormek probably won't "endorse" it, but there is more to making and "endorsement" and saying it doesn't void the warranty. I would not expect Tormek to endorse it as it is quite counter to there philosophy of the sharpening process, but I don't see why it should matter if they don't and it doesn't affect the warranty.
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on July 21, 2024, 04:17:55 PMI think it is worth asking Tormek about the warranty
I think that actually asking the company would get you an answer.
I think that the added weight of a second grinding wheel probably stresses the motor more than running it with a single wheel, but it has more than enough torque, so maybe not? It's also putting more stress on the shaft, but again ... I don't think it's doing any harm.
The bushings may be an issue with the extra weight.
Ken Thankyou
Yes, I wanted to know as I've watched many videos of others running 2 either diamond or cbn on a T8.
Yes I agree, sir. There is a wealth of information over at knife grinders Australia that is still active sadly after Vadim's passing with his scientific research studies to practical use; as it is in this forum.
Thank you again
Phil
All Tormek wheels are either exclusively for wet grinding (SB/SG/SJ), or wet grinding is very strongly advised (DC/DF/DE).
There is only a water trough on one side of the machine, so the other one would have to run dry with standard issue Tormek hardware.
Therefore I don't see how they would support using it in a way that would only help 3rd parties sell wheels.
This situation is not unique to Tormek. Back when my 2013 Equinox was still under warranty, I would have been very surprised if GM would have honored a warranty request if I had modified the engine with non GM components, even if they made the car run better.
Most of you were not here during the early days of CBN usage. Wootz (Vadim) was the first forum member to use CBN wheels. This predated the diamond wheels by several years.
CBN wheels were designed for high speed dry grinding of hss turning tools. Adapting them to Tormek use was a later after thought. I do not believe the vendors before Wootz even owned a Tormek. The sharpening videos they posted all used high speed dry grinders, generally run at full speed. This is not a criticism of CBN wheels. They perform this high speed function very well. They also happen to work well with the Tormek, although this was an after thought. One vendor clearly stated that using them wet would void the warranty. In my opinion, this was because of warranty claims due to carelessly leaving the wheels soaking rather than in product defects.
i have seen enough supporting evidence to believe that mounting a second grinding wheel on a Tormek may well work. I have even seen photos of these second wheels working with an added water trough, the way Tormek wheels should be used. However, one should be aware that using any product, including a Tormek, in a way not endorsed by the manufacturer may void the warranty. The safe and most versatile play is just to purchase a T8 custom as a second machine.
Ken
Hi everyone!
I can confirm that using two wheels on a T8 works fine. You'll need a second water tray with a stand, and a custom bushing with a nut/handle for mounting the wheel. Optionally, an extended double-sided support can be used to avoid inverting it when switching between wheels.
For me personally warranty risk is totally worth it because this setup saves time and is very convenient, especially with an additional honing station. Now with two CBN wheels T8 feels like a next level machine!
t8_two_cbn.jpg
Having said all this ... I am not sure if you ever file a warranty claim, they would have an easy way to know that you have used a wheel on an extension shaft.
FWIW, here's my video on the dual-wheel setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nowd-O3HT50
Well there are other outfits such as Schleifjunkies (Hanns) that sells 3D prints of added complete trough systems for second wheel adaptions with extended bolt. Even a drip tray overtop that clips into their FVB & Tormek's FVB also with a 3d honing wheel protector overtop with attachments for a second trough system capability. I have it. She clips in perfectly but l haven't tried a second wheel yet. Their CBNs can run on tap water. He states this as such as well whereas WTW dont.
Although there are videos on YouTube explaining tests that were run over a month with Wood Turners Wonder Spartan wheels one with one HoneRite, one with tap water and one with Tormek's ACC. Either way, his test prove when running with WTW's wheels in water with whatever additive is ok. But yet they will not claim that it's OK to run in water other than their Tornado wheels.
I've read somewhere on a forum that when running to CBN wheels at one time on a tarmac that the machine definitely slows down almost to a crawled rotation. As if the T8 does not have enough torque to spin to heavyweight wheels. Although there have been others who have stated, while having a diamond wheel on the left and the lesser weighted spartan plastic core wheel on the right that there was no issue with slowness of spin.
Hanns has stated to me that this will not be an issue when running to CBNs on one T8 with the extended bolt at one time.
I also must add that Slipakniven out of Sweden also sells CBN wheels,that I also have that can also run in normal tap water.
And I do have Tormek's diamond wheels but I gotta say man that ACC stuff can get pricey, even with the filtering of. I've seen videos of others using a sponge as well, which is something I'm gonna do some more exploration towards. Presently I do not like to grind dry. I've heard some horror stories with the possibility of fires from the dust, especially when the workshop is in the basement; even with the best of the best of air dust colectores. Yes it's all dependent on the steel/blade type material one grinds as well. Furthermore l had my place catch on fire years ago, unrelated of course thank the Lord above so today I'm even more apprehensive towards dry grinding, either with belt or a variable speed grinder.
Anyveeee, izzzza learning...Filippo
Quote from: Columbo on August 11, 2024, 09:40:05 PMI've read somewhere on a forum that when running to CBN wheels at one time on a tarmac that the machine definitely slows down almost to a crawled rotation. As if the T8 does not have enough torque to spin to heavyweight wheels. Although there have been others who have stated, while having a diamond wheel on the left and the lesser weighted spartan plastic core wheel on the right that there was no issue with slowness of spin.
Hanns has stated to me that this will not be an issue when running to CBNs on one T8 with the extended bolt at one time.
This is almost certainly caused by water dripping onto the rubber drive wheel, rather than a lack of sufficient motor torque. If the drive wheel gets wet, it causes the drive shaft to slip, which seems like a torque issue if you don't understand what's happened. I use a 3D printed guard over the drive wheel to minimize the issue, but it still happens occasionally. Then it's just a matter of drying off the wheel with a rag or paper towel.
Quote from: 3D Anvil on August 14, 2024, 03:05:24 PMQuote from: Columbo on August 11, 2024, 09:40:05 PMI've read somewhere on a forum that when running to CBN wheels at one time on a tarmac that the machine definitely slows down almost to a crawled rotation. As if the T8 does not have enough torque to spin to heavyweight wheels. Although there have been others who have stated, while having a diamond wheel on the left and the lesser weighted spartan plastic core wheel on the right that there was no issue with slowness of spin.
Hanns has stated to me that this will not be an issue when running to CBNs on one T8 with the extended bolt at one time.
This is almost certainly caused by water dripping onto the rubber drive wheel, rather than a lack of sufficient motor torque. If the drive wheel gets wet, it causes the drive shaft to slip, which seems like a torque issue if you don't understand what's happened. I use a 3D printed guard over the drive wheel to minimize the issue, but it still happens occasionally. Then it's just a matter of drying off the wheel with a rag or paper towel.
yes, thank you I've done the same Shcleifjunkies Has the best 3-D plastic covers right over the drive wheel and the drip trait to its side
In my opinion, it may be reasonable to think that the strong motor of the T8 may be able to power a second grinding wheel. I also believe that no responsible company will set a precedent obligating them to cover warranty repairs outside of the parameters of their designed product. Tormek has always been designed for a single grinding wheel.
There is a warranty compliant solution to this. Use the Tormek as designed and quickly change grinding wheels when needed using the EZYlock.
My other problem is using unknown sources as supporting evidence. I have no problem with non Tormek sources, as long as they are properly linked or documented.
Ken