Having laid idle for about a year I am revisiting my Tormek.
I put a new primary bevel on a wide plane blade yesterday and have two issues.
1, The edge isn't square, I think I have found a solution for this by aligning to the edge of the wheel and don't trust the jig.
2, I have trimmed the wheel twice and can't get it square, it's about 0.0015" out of square, any recommendations as to how I resolve this ?
Hello, you said "I have trimmed the wheel twice".
Did you use the TT-50 to re-true the stone?
https://tormek.com/en/products/accessories/tt-50-truing-tool
Which model Tormek do you have?
Frome the picture, I am guessing it is a T4 or one of the older smaller models
Quote from: Segovia123 on June 12, 2024, 11:15:11 AMHaving laid idle for about a year I am revisiting my Tormek.
I put a new primary bevel on a wide plane blade yesterday and have two issues.
1, The edge isn't square, I think I have found a solution for this by aligning to the edge of the wheel and don't trust the jig.
2, I have trimmed the wheel twice and can't get it square, it's about 0.0015" out of square, any recommendations as to how I resolve this ?
"Aligning to the edge of the wheel" is a solution in one of the Tormek videos...
https://www.youtube.com/live/8uLMWXqobRM?si=kAAkHwN4Fj43RtHE&t=1465
... there's also some other tips on what to do.
As for truing the wheel square (assuming your square is accuarte ;) ), and as Dan said, you're using the TT-50, (if so, which model?), I'd check to see if your USB is square to the side of the wheel. If so, my next suggestion would be to make very light passes to true the wheel, so that it doesn't "push up" against the USB. I'd make the last past a .10mm or less, (turning the Microadjust less than 1/2 the distance between two numbers) and see if that helps.
Yup, as mentioned in several other posts, the "aligning against the side" tip works only if the USB is square to the side of the wheel. That has to be checked first.
It is square (within my measurements tolerances at least) on both of my T8s. The main reasons I can see for that not being the case are :
- bent USB
- wrong tightening technique for USB legs (one should press down on the leg with the MicroAdjust, tighten, then tighten the other one)
Quote from: tgbto on June 12, 2024, 05:18:03 PM...It is square (within my measurements tolerances at least) on both of my T8s...
The wheel on my T8 also seems pretty square to the USB as well as I can measure it.
Quote from: tgbto on June 12, 2024, 05:18:03 PM...
- wrong tightening technique for USB legs (one should press down on the leg with the MicroAdjust, tighten, then tighten the other one)
I'm glad you brought this up. I know this is what Tormek recommends, but I now do the opposite, I push down on the other leg first. The reason is I found that, for example, the Truing Tool which pushes up against the USB... if I push down on the MicroAdjust side first, the TT can push up and cause the USB to tip (enough that I can turn the MicroAdjust almost .5mm). But, if I push down on the opposite side first, it's locked in place and won't move. Obviously, I could tighten things down enough so that it doesn't matter (and of course light passes), just one more thing I don't have to think about.
Probably doesn't make a difference in reality (but if someone is measuring to 0.0015", it might.)
What'd ya think?
Quote from: Dan on June 12, 2024, 01:55:53 PMHello, you said "I have trimmed the wheel twice".
Did you use the TT-50 to re-true the stone?
https://tormek.com/en/products/accessories/tt-50-truing-tool
Which model Tormek do you have?
yes I used the TT50
Quote from: Dan on June 12, 2024, 01:55:53 PMHello, you said "I have trimmed the wheel twice".
Did you use the TT-50 to re-true the stone?
https://tormek.com/en/products/accessories/tt-50-truing-tool
Which model Tormek do you have?
Its the T4
Quote from: Segovia123 on June 12, 2024, 11:15:11 AMit's about 0.0015" out of square
To be honest 1.5 thou out of square is pretty close. There is enough flex in the bar that you are doing well to get it that close.
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 12, 2024, 03:55:12 PMQuote from: Segovia123 on June 12, 2024, 11:15:11 AMHaving laid idle for about a year I am revisiting my Tormek.
I put a new primary bevel on a wide plane blade yesterday and have two issues.
1, The edge isn't square, I think I have found a solution for this by aligning to the edge of the wheel and don't trust the jig.
2, I have trimmed the wheel twice and can't get it square, it's about 0.0015" out of square, any recommendations as to how I resolve this ?
"Aligning to the edge of the wheel" is a solution in one of the Tormek videos...
https://www.youtube.com/live/8uLMWXqobRM?si=kAAkHwN4Fj43RtHE&t=1465
... there's also some other tips on what to do.
As for truing the wheel square (assuming your square is accuarte ;) ), and as Dan said, you're using the TT-50, (if so, which model?), I'd check to see if your USB is square to the side of the wheel. If so, my next suggestion would be to make very light passes to true the wheel, so that it doesn't "push up" against the USB. I'd make the last past a .10mm or less, (turning the Microadjust less than 1/2 the distance between two numbers) and see if that helps.
Tried it today but my plane blade is too big, I think it's 2 1/4", restricted if I go right and it i go left it passes the end of the bar
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 12, 2024, 07:44:49 PMQuote from: tgbto on June 12, 2024, 05:18:03 PM...
- wrong tightening technique for USB legs (one should press down on the leg with the MicroAdjust, tighten, then tighten the other one)
I'm glad you brought this up. I know this is what Tormek recommends, but I now do the opposite, I push down on the other leg first. The reason is I found that, for example, the Truing Tool which pushes up against the USB... if I push down on the MicroAdjust side first, the TT can push up and cause the USB to tip (enough that I can turn the MicroAdjust almost .5mm). But, if I push down on the opposite side first, it's locked in place and won't move. Obviously, I could tighten things down enough so that it doesn't matter (and of course light passes), just one more thing I don't have to think about.
Probably doesn't make a difference in reality (but if someone is measuring to 0.0015", it might.)
What'd ya think?
I managed to get the wheel true and remove th 0.0015" gap, but having problem with getting a square edge on my 2 1/4" plane blade
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 12, 2024, 07:44:49 PMQuote from: tgbto on June 12, 2024, 05:18:03 PM...
- wrong tightening technique for USB legs (one should press down on the leg with the MicroAdjust, tighten, then tighten the other one)
I'm glad you brought this up. I know this is what Tormek recommends, but I now do the opposite, I push down on the other leg first. The reason is I found that, for example, the Truing Tool which pushes up against the USB... if I push down on the MicroAdjust side first, the TT can push up and cause the USB to tip (enough that I can turn the MicroAdjust almost .5mm). But, if I push down on the opposite side first, it's locked in place and won't move. Obviously, I could tighten things down enough so that it doesn't matter (and of course light passes), just one more thing I don't have to think about.
Probably doesn't make a difference in reality (but if someone is measuring to 0.0015", it might.)
What'd ya think?
I'm not sure I follow you there. You mean if you tighten the leg with the MA then the leg without it, the TT can afterwards push up the USB legs ? I have not noticed this. I would rather be afraid of the USB being no longer parallel with the wheel shaft as there is no planar reference on the leg without the USB... I'll have to look into that.
Quote from: Segovia123 on June 13, 2024, 03:50:26 PMI managed to get the wheel true and remove th 0.0015" gap, but having problem with getting a square edge on my 2 1/4" plane blade
If you wheel is true and parallel to the USB, it is now a matter of setting up your tool and blade properly. I'll be assuming you're using the SE-77 jig.
The blade can be out-of-square with the jig. It is unlikely that you'd set it up improperly against the near-side stops of the jig.
There are however two knobs on the SE-77 that are here to allow for camber as well as correcting for a non-straight angle. As per the manual, the two lines should be aligned for the jig to be in the neutral position, and both adjustment screws tightened. Loosening one and tightening the other allows for a slight skew, loosening both allow for a camber.
So you could check that after aligning both lines and tightening both screws, your blade is square to the jig. If it is, and the wheel is true and square, the last thing I can think of is technique, where you'd be applying uneven pressure on both sides of the blade.
Quote from: tgbto on June 13, 2024, 04:52:21 PMI'm not sure I follow you there. You mean if you tighten the leg with the MA then the leg without it, the TT can afterwards push up the USB legs ? I have not noticed this. I would rather be afraid of the USB being no longer parallel with the wheel shaft as there is no planar reference on the leg without the USB... I'll have to look into that.
...
Not quite. What I do is, where you would push down over the leg with the Micro Adust and tighten everything down, I push over the other leg and tighten everything down.
If you'll notice prior to locking the legs down you can rock the USB back and forth (not much but a little bit.) If you push down on over the Micro Adjust leg and then secure it, you can rock (tilt) the USB up slightly with a bit of pressure. But if you lock it down while pushing on the other leg, it can't move anymore. Normal use it probably wouldn't matter, but the pressure from truing, especially if you don't use light passes, might be enough to tilt it. So then when a chisel is sharpened, (and you once again push down on the M.A. side to tighten,) it might be slightly off. Maybe not enough to matter, but it is about a 1/2mm difference in USB height.
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 13, 2024, 11:40:43 PMIf you'll notice prior to locking the legs down you can rock the USB back and forth (not much but a little bit.) If you push down on over the Micro Adjust leg and then secure it, you can rock (tilt) the USB up slightly with a bit of pressure. But if you lock it down while pushing on the other leg, it can't move anymore.
Strange. I just tried : push down on the USB on the MA leg, tighten the MA leg, tighten the non-MA leg, release downwards pressure on the MA leg. The USB cannot move *at all*. Or at least that I can measure...
Quote from: tgbto on June 14, 2024, 09:42:34 AMStrange. I just tried : push down on the USB on the MA leg, tighten the MA leg, tighten the non-MA leg, release downwards pressure on the MA leg. The USB cannot move *at all*. Or at least that I can measure...
Ok... thanks for checking it out.
Segovia,
I am facing a similar situation. For the past year, my health has prevented me from having much, if any, time in my workshop. Just like playing a musical instrument, I realize that it will require some time for my body to become reacquainted with my Tormek. Fortunately, I enjoy the sharpening process and slowly relearning and tuning will be pleasant. For the first couple of sessions, I do not plan to do any actual sharpening. I will allow myself the luxury of slowly retruing my grinding wheels. Although I can retrue with deeper cuts, I much prefer to savor the process with multiple light cuts, generally around half of a microadjust number. I carefully add a small rounding edge to both sides of my grinding wheels. Although this method is slower, I don't remember ever chipping a wheel.
The wheel should be fully trued before moving on.
I use simple 3/4" bench chisels as warmup and learning tools. I have a number of them. Irwin blue chip chisels are adequate quality and not expensive. They can teach you a lot. I suggest them even to those whose regular sharpening is exclusively knives.
A 2 1/4" plane blade should not be a problem. Start with light passes and a black marker. Check for square frequently. Each pass should be square. The 76 or 77 designation of modern square edge jigs means they can handle blades up to three inches wide. Light passes until everything is right.
Relearning should pass more quickly than initial learning. Slow and steady carries the day.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Update
I put the blade in my honing guide and ran it across some 60 micron 3M paper and then put a secondary bevel with my stones. The whole process took less than 20 minutes which makes me wonder why I bought a Tormek in the first place !
PS
I think the Tormek SE-77 Square Edge Jig is the problem, the adjustment capability can lead to misalignment of the blade in the jig.
I would offer a different opinion. Ever since the SE-77 was introduced, I felt that Tormek did not emphasize its primary, long needed advancement. While squaring up chisels is a nice secondary feature, being able to control the amount of camber on plane irons is the real innovation. Before the SE-77, we had to guesstimate this by varying finger pressure side to side.
During the years of the non adjustable SE-76, we still had many complaints of out of square chisels and plane irons. The uncomfortable truth is that grinding accurately square edges often requires a higher level of skill and care, including frequent checking with a square. Whenever I see a posted photo of a very out of square edge, I think that the person did not bother th check for square during grinding. Checking for square early is our early earning system indicating a need to course correct.
If all you want is sharp chisels and plane irons ground straight across, you might be happier with the SE-76. Although discontinued fairly recently, they should be plentiful on the used or "new old stock" markets. Just keep in mind that the fixed registration fence does not completely eliminate the need for checking for square.
I suggest you hang onto your SE-77 for the day when your hand planing skill requires cambering.
Ken