hello
I have been using this off and on for awhile - I just do my home knives -
I have an APEX sharpener but it took so long to do a knife especly mirror polish.
however becuase i dont use this daily i have a few issues i need help with.
T4-
1. Curved end of blades my angle is off (im lifting like the videos show)
2. when trying to grid I get different lines through the grind because i cannot possibly follow the exact line every time when lifting (above)
3. honing is difficult without a guide
is there a jig that can help with the tip/round parts?
Is there laser that can be projected on the wheel to help cutting in the same spot? i know this is still prone to varying degrees of error but its would definitely help
is that an jig for the honed side to match the angle?
Quote from: v6turbo on May 25, 2024, 09:54:12 PMhello
I have been using this off and on for awhile - I just do my home knives -
I have an APEX sharpener but it took so long to do a knife especly mirror polish.
however becuase i dont use this daily i have a few issues i need help with.
T4-
1. Curved end of blades my angle is off is off (im lifting like the videos show)
Where you clamp the blade in relation to the belly/tip area can affect the angle. So, for example, if the angle is too shallow, try clamping closer to the belly/tip area.
2. when trying to grid I get different lines through the grind because i cannot possibly follow the exact line every time when lifting (above)
I'm not sure why you're not following the same line if you're using the jig? If you're lifting the handle, make sure you don't rotate and/or twist the handle to follow the curve. Lift only, at least while learning. Also watch the water flow over the blade... it will tell you when you reach the curve, and as you lift the water help guide the movement.
3. honing is difficult without a guide
My suggestion if freehand honing, is to start at a lower angle than you sharpened, then slowly raise the angle. When you reach the edge you will hear and feel it. Hone at that angle, or slightly higher. Tormek also has a class on honing: The Basics of Honing (https://www.youtube.com/live/40AoJ8UBprI?si=Q0j53b-YiCdSwyV9)
is there a jig that can help with the tip/round parts?
Is there laser that can be projected on the wheel to help cutting in the same spot? i know this is still prone to varying degrees of error but its would definitely help
There is, but I guess I don't understand the need for this if you're using the knife jig.
is that an jig for the honed side to match the angle?
There is the Front Vertical Base (FVB) or Tormek's MB-102 (that incorporates an FVB) that allows you to mount a Universal Support Bar (USB) so that it's in the same position for honing, and you can set the angle and hone the same way that you sharpen. It's demoed in this video: MB-102 Multi Base... (https://www.youtube.com/live/uNupoAP5gAU?si=ymtKJA_AfslaK2cw)
Honestly, to me it sounds like you just need practice. But I tried to add a couple of tips that may help.
Quote from: cbwx34 on May 26, 2024, 10:10:38 PMHonestly, to me it sounds like you just need practice. But I tried to add a couple of tips that may help.
my tip/round part gets more angle. im shopening at 12 and i think is more like 15 or more.
i thought the laser would help when lifter to keep all of the blade edge cutting from the same spot on the stone, to keep the same angle.
Am i misunderstanding this part?
Quote from: v6turbo on May 26, 2024, 11:59:37 PMQuote from: cbwx34 on May 26, 2024, 10:10:38 PMHonestly, to me it sounds like you just need practice. But I tried to add a couple of tips that may help.
my tip/round part gets more angle. im shopening at 12 and i think is more like 15 or more.
i thought the laser would help when lifter to keep all of the blade edge cutting from the same spot on the stone, to keep the same angle.
Am i misunderstanding this part?
There are many discussions on this subject in the forum including this one (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4720.msg33840.html#msg33840).
TLDR : if you try to maintain a constant angle at the tip on most knives, your bevel height will vary. If you want to maintain a constant bevel height your angle will vary.
This is due to the intrinsic geometry of the blade. For instance if the blade curves upward at the tip, it may get thicker because the angle at the end of the blade spine does not correct enough for this. So if you maintain a constant angle, your bevel will get wider.
If you take a close look at videos where a nice bevel is being ground all along the length of the knife, you will notice that the sharpener (Wolfgang included) uses a combination of lifting and pivoting (sometimes away from you, but sometimes towards you).
This is where sharpening knives on a Tormek becomes more than just using a jig in a predetermined fashion. You have to work out what combination of clamping position & clamping angle wrt to the spine, lifting action and pivoting action will work best for the geometry of the particular knife you're sharpening.
If, like me, you don't sharpen enough knives that you'll be able to adjust on the fly, the "sharpie trick" will help you a lot in finding that combination : blacken the edge, take one stroke just lifting the handle. Look at the edge. If you ground the apex portion but still have sharpie along the top of the edge, add a bit of "pivoting away" action at the end. If you ground the shoulders but not the apex, pivot towards you. Rinse, repeat. When you want to start pivoting will depend on the precise curvature of the blade, so you might want to take a close look at sharpie marks not just in the tip area.
This might only compound the issue you mention in point 2. of your original post. But you will have to build muscle memory and develop habits to get more consistent, there is little helping it.
Hope this helps.
Quote from: v6turbo on May 26, 2024, 11:59:37 PM...
i thought the laser would help when lifter to keep all of the blade edge cutting from the same spot on the stone, to keep the same angle.
Am i misunderstanding this part?
The knife jig maintains the position on the stone. Yes you could use a laser if you want to try and manipulate the position, but the constraints (design) of the KJ-45 wouldn't make that practical IMO. The laser is most useful if you want to freehand sharpen on the Tormek.
The more curve in the belly/tip area, the less practical lifting is... as tgbto mentioned, that's where trying to pivot or rotate a bit to maintain the angle (or bevel width) comes into play.
I agree with CB and TGB, especially about the need for practice. I would include "disciplined" with practice and careful study of the online classes. I have watched all of them more than once, and learn more each time I do. These fine training resources were not available when I started learning how to use the Tormek.
I have been fortunate enough to have personally observed both Wolfgang and Stig sharpening. Their passion for sharpening is obvious as is their many hours of experience.
Do not become discouraged. I firmly believe that we can do anything they do we can do, also, if we are willing to put in the dedication and work. Mastery is a long road; however, for us it should be a pleasant and fukfilling journey.
Ken
Let me echo the sentiments of the consensus of the posters, practice makes perfect. I am relatively new to the Tormek but it was not long before I was getting good results but it did take a while to get my eye in. As with anything the experts make it look deceptively easy, and indeed it is but it does require some practice observation and as Ken says discipline.
I've been round the bend with this issue, too. The truth is that it's just a limitation of the current system, and there's no perfect way around it. If you draw the blade straight across, keeping the jig perpendicular to the guide bar, and only raise your elbow to bring the belly into contact with the stone--as suggested by Tormek--you will have a higher bevel angle toward the tip.
If, on the other hand, you pivot the jig to get the belly/tip lower down on the stone, there will be some inconsistency in that area, although it can be minimized with practice. However ... there are some situations where no amount of pivoting can get the tip low enough to match the angle on the rest of the knife.
These days I don't let it wreck my head. The angle difference generally isn't that extreme, and the system gets knives sharp, and quickly.
Quote from: 3D Anvil on May 30, 2024, 05:22:29 PMI've been round the bend with this issue, too. The truth is that it's just a limitation of the current system, and there's no perfect way around it. If you draw the blade straight across, keeping the jig perpendicular to the guide bar, and only raise your elbow to bring the belly into contact with the stone--as suggested by Tormek--you will have a higher bevel angle toward the tip.
If, on the other hand, you pivot the jig to get the belly/tip lower down on the stone, there will be some inconsistency in that area, although it can be minimized with practice. However ... there are some situations where no amount of pivoting can get the tip low enough to match the angle on the rest of the knife.
These days I don't let it wreck my head. The angle difference generally isn't that extreme, and the system gets knives sharp, and quickly.
I would ad to this: identify a process which is repeatable. In my book, that is the #1 key to success.
Maybe super obvious, but I always make sure to grade the stone to "fine" and practice I a couple of passes with tricky blades.
I wish that the above was true, as late as yesterday I messed up this kind of knife, and that was after I made a quick pass with the stone truer. 200 grit maybe? The knife looks really bad.
(https://cdn.abicart.com/shop/ws13/85513/art13/h9121/199029121-origpic-9399a8.jpg)
One of the most valuable pieces of advice I found in Tormek's videos was about how to avoid overgrinding the middle by thoroughly roundoing out the shoulders of the stone.