Tormek Community Forum

Sometimes it is very difficult to have the knife blade align with the spine of the SVM-00 Small knife holder.

This can be due to various reasons: a multi-bladed knife, a single bladed knife in which the blade is "kicked" to one side, etc..
If you have an SVM-00 you may have spent considerable time trying to get the handle packed properly so the blade aligns.

I have designed and built a easy to use jig which aligns the blade/handle very quickly.

This poll is to help determine if it is worth the effort to make the jig available to SVM-00 users.

I use the table trick outlined in the Tormek knife sharpening class. This seems to work fine for all of the small knives I sharpen. There is the occasional pesky knife that is too tricky to fit the SNM-00 which I sharpen freehand.

Quote from: TheSeldomSeenKid on February 21, 2024, 06:00:49 AMSometimes it is very difficult to have the knife blade align with the spine of the SVM-00 Small knife holder....
...I have designed and built a easy to use jig which aligns the blade/handle very quickly.

Personally, I don't have the jig but I am very curious to know more and understand your idea/adaptation. I  may be tempted to get one if it is useful.
Can you give us a photo / description of your idea, please?

Danny

Background:
There are five main components to the jig:
Component 1: Slides on the SVM-100. This provides the reference to the SVM-100.
Component 2: Goes over the blade and holds it secure. This provides the reference for the blade.
Component 3: Are shims that goes between Part 1 and Part 2 so that the jig/fixture is parallel and centered to the blade .
Component 4: Steel dowel pins which hold the above three components in alignment.
Component 5: Handle packing.

Use:
Use is simple (it takes longer to describe than do):
Step 1. Slide component 1 over the spine of the SVM-100.
Step 2. Put the knife into the SVM-100 with a loose and sloppy fit.
Step 3. Put the blade into component 3.
Step 4. Stack the three components (1,2,3) and insert the steel pins (component 4).
Once the pins are pushed in place we have alignment (horizontal and vertical) between the SVM-100 and the knife blade.
At this point the handle should be loose inside the SVM-100.
Step 5. Pack the the handle (using material from component 5) and tighten the SVM-100. Since the knife blade is not going to move out of alignment, this step is very easy.
Step 6. Remove the alignment jig components.
Now you should be ready to go.

Background:
My need for this stemmed from frustration aligning an old Italian carving knife that I wanted to reprofile and whose blade was not in alignment with the handle. Other use cases have been: multi-bladed "Swiss Army" and other knives, whose blades are obviously not in the center of the handle. The other issue I ran into was handles that would cause the blade to move out of alignment when tightening the SVM-100.

The idea to solve the problem stems from creating a repeatable jig or fixture for machining parts. If this is not a familiar topic you can find course work for shop jigs and fixtures on YouTube by ThatLazyMachinest.

Hopefully this answers your question and makes sense. If not please let me know.

Quick question : how does component 2 reference the blade plane of symmetry, and not either side of the blade ? I wonder how blade with, say, a 3° taper angler are accomodated ?

Are there photos of this device?  A list of components does not convey much.  I have the small knife jig, but just don't use it because I don't have any blades that need it.  But it would be interesting to see this thing. 

Rick

For those who want photos.

Note:
- This is the very first prototype. This was to see if the concept worked. This is not the final.
- The shims shown in the center shown do not cover the gap so you can see how it goes together.

Photo 1: The components (Handle packing is not shown).
1.png

Photo 2: How to set it up. Note: One of the side shims is removed for clarity.
2.png

Photo 2: Showing an old carving knife inserted/entrapped into the component 3.
3.png

Photo 3: How it looks with the SVM-100. Note: Non-gap covering shims shown. The jig would be slid slightly toward the SVM-100 and tighten, prior to shimming the handle,
4.png

So from what I understand, it will work for blades with straight (parallel) sides.

Why couldn't you just have the piece that slides onto the SVM jig, then have the lower piece with the V shape come up and center the edge... that should be enough to center the blade for "packing" the handle and clamping?  I'm not sure you'd need more than that and spine to edge taper wouldn't matter.

@tgbto "So from what I understand, it will work for blades with straight (parallel) sides."
The sides don't have to be straight. The capture is done on the edge. We are trying to get the edge aligned with the center of the SVM-000. So we need a relatively straight edge. If we needed to do a blade with a chisel grind the piece that captures the blade would be cut at that angle.
The center shims (Component 2) will accommodate width differentials.
I hope this answers what you are thinking, if not let me know.
Remember the pictures are from the first prototype. Not the current design.

@cbwx34 "Why couldn't you just have the piece that slides onto the SVM jig, then have the lower piece with the V shape come up and center the edge... that should be enough to center the blade for "packing" the handle and clamping?  I'm not sure you'd need more than that and spine to edge taper wouldn't matter."
The goal when packing the handle and tightening the SVM-00 is not to disturb where you want the blade either horizontally or vertically. Blade handles in many cases, especially wooden handles are not uniform, so the ability to pack without the blade moving was an important requirement.
When the pins are inserted and all the components are touching the blade and handle is fixed in space, relative to the spine of the SVM-00.

Component 2 provides the vertical height adjustment to lock the blade in place so it wouldn't tip up or down when packing or tightening the SVM-00 jig.

In the initial prototype, component 2 was just spacers of different heights, that can be stacked, so the designed vertical alignment is achieved.

You seem entirely convinced that the devices you've come up with will work and solve the issue of mounting and aligning small knives in the Tormek jig.  I think you'll need to get it into the hands of non-vested users for independent trials and testing.  This will give you the best chance of refining your design if need be and/or demonstrate to others that it works as intended.  I for one would not be interested in shelling out my money on an untested and uncertain prospect such as this. 

The question I have is not about the alignment aspect, rather how well the packings you speak of can actually maintain the alignment sought.  Based on the posted photos, I cannot determine what those "packings" are and how they hold the knife in the desired position.  As far as I can tell, all that is shown is the alignment pieces. 

Rick

@RickKrung "You seem entirely convinced that the devices you've come up with will work and solve the issue of mounting and aligning small knives in the Tormek jig.  I think you'll need to get it into the hands of non-vested users for independent trials and testing.  This will give you the best chance of refining your design if need be and/or demonstrate to others that it works as intended.  I for one would not be interested in shelling out my money on an untested and uncertain prospect such as this."
Yes I am convinced that this problem can be solved.
1. It's not that hard of a problem.
2. I have working prototypes.

In the "Agile Process" being used, customer collaboration is non-optional and is a key value. I don't advocate selling or buying things that don't work.

Important: The poll is to see if its worth the time and money to create a refined product for other SVM-00 users.

@RickKrung "The question I have is not about the alignment aspect, rather how well the packings you speak of can actually maintain the alignment sought.  Based on the posted photos, I cannot determine what those "packings" are and how they hold the knife in the desired position.  As far as I can tell, all that is shown is the alignment pieces."
Correct. I did not provide pictures of the handle packing.
Currently ThermoPlastic Polyurethane (TPU) is the handle packing material of choice. It is non-marring, flexible, has limited compressibility, limited deformation, good thermal properties, abrasion resistant, etc..

Note: The pictures provided are of the a initial proto-type and do not represent a final polished product. It was provided so people who wanted to know how it worked, had a visual.

Rick, I hoped this addressed your questions and concerns. If not let me know.

Quote from: RickKrung on February 24, 2024, 05:03:15 AM....
The question I have is not about the alignment aspect, rather how well the packings you speak of can actually maintain the alignment sought.  Based on the posted photos, I cannot determine what those "packings" are and how they hold the knife in the desired position.  As far as I can tell, all that is shown is the alignment pieces. 

Rick

Probably better than chopsticks (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,3782)...

ChopstickFiller.png

 :D  :D  :D

Probably better than chopsticks (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,3782)...
...snip...
 :D  :D  :D
[/quote]

Ha, I like it. Have you actually used it this way?  Did it work?  I think, when the need comes up (these things are usually ("when, not if"), I'll give that a try.

Quote from: TheSeldomSeenKid on February 24, 2024, 11:28:27 AM...snip...
Rick, I hoped this addressed your questions and concerns. If not let me know.

Sounds like you're on it and have a plan.

Quote from: RickKrung on February 24, 2024, 03:58:48 PM

QuoteProbably better than chopsticks (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,3782)...
...snip...
 :D  :D  :D

Ha, I like it. Have you actually used it this way?  Did it work?  I think, when the need comes up (these things are usually ("when, not if"), I'll give that a try.

Only for that one knife, and yes it worked, but I'm sure there's better ideas.  Like I said, I just did it to inspire some.

TBH, I rarely use the SVM-00 anymore, like someone said earlier... easier just to freehand them, or use the Platform (not a jig) jig.  :D

Quote from: cbwx34 on February 24, 2024, 06:02:34 PM...snip...
Only for that one knife, and yes it worked, but I'm sure there's better ideas.  Like I said, I just did it to inspire some.
...snip...

Made me think of this tool, a universal socket driver...

Haven't done it, but supposedly will work on non-hex shapes, such as penta heads on the city water service covers.

Universal Socket Driver 02-24-24 640.jpg

@RickKrung @cbwx34
The picture of the swiss army knife (thanks @cbwx34) makes sense, works, and I have used rods/wedges before for squaring a swiss army knife.
The SVM-100 is used for the horizontal and vertical reference and the rods/wedges push the knife handle into the reference surface.

This is similar in concept to how a block is squared up on a mill. (If you are not familiar, consider watching a YouTube video by Marc Lecuyer "Block Squaring on a Milling Machine ...".)

Custom handles which are not square or blades which are not square to the handle are more difficult, since the svm-100 can't be used as the sole primary reference points. This is where the alignment jig is a great help as you can see how the handle needs to align. Small tapered pins or wedges can be used for gap filling. This is where the TPU is helpful, as tightening the SVM-00 doesn't push the pins out of place. This works, but I would prefer it to be even easier.

I usually use the SVM-00 for blades which are short.  One easy example is a marking knife.  It works well for that.  

That is an excellent recommendation. If one goes to the video linked in this page https://tormek.com/en/products/grinding-jigs/svm-00-small-knife-holder (https://tormek.com/en/products/grinding-jigs/svm-00-small-knife-holder)
a YouTube video produced by Tormek will make it quite clear.
Thanks!!

Looking at Tormek's photos of the SVM-00, the jig is always shown with larger wooden handled carving knives. I have no doubt that this jig works well with these knives. I do not believe it works as well with small blades with folding pocket knives. In my opinion, the homemade small platforms developed by forum members work much better. These are generally called "Herman's Homemade Small Platforms" or occasionally Ionut's. Whereas the larger Tormek platform workswell with larger tools suchas turning scrapers, the platform is too wide to be used on double beveled knives without resetting the platform to allow full length grinding on both bevels.

The small platform's width is no wider than the grinding wheel, thus allowing both sides to be ground full length without needing to remount the jig.This definitely improves sharpening speed.

Ken

I wondered why I needed take out Asian food.  Now I know.  Extra utensils please....... ;)