I've researched so much. YouTube videos, Facebook Tormek group and now this message board. Very nice people with meaningful advice. Very appreciated.
I'm a home cook and I have a Spyderco system that isn't ideal nor reliable. However, I love a very sharp knife. I've been leaning towards the T-4 but someone on the Facebook group thinks I'd like the T-2 best so I've now researched that one. I'm very confused but what I've noticed is it's almost impossible to find a t-2 user that can give me feedback. Only people who have tried one or seen one demonstrated.
The knock against the t-2 is its "single purpose" and it doesn't allow for any user skill or nuance. Additionally, I understand it won't sharpen pocket knives and cleavers.
I've read so many articles on the t-4 that people have to use apps and they've ruined a lot of knives ghat I'm afraid I'll get frustrated and cause more harm than good.
Any long-term t-2 users who can give a good review and/or thoughts?
Thanks in advance.
Welcome to the forum.
No T-2 experience here,however, I do have thoughts on this.
Quote from: OrangeBeachReb on June 03, 2020, 05:19:04 AM
I've read so many articles on the t-4 that people have to use apps and they've ruined a lot of knives ghat I'm afraid I'll get frustrated and cause more harm than good.
While apps are available to accurately set the grinding and honing angles they are not required. They are actually a fairly recent development. While it is recommended that your first knife should be an old one that you do not mind if something goes wrong most get good results on their first try. I am not sure how many T-2 owners there are but I do not recall seeing any user posts here. Take a look at the Tormek YouTube site for knife sharpening videos. Also any technique shown for the T-8 can be used on the T-4. Another thought, if you do buy and later decide to sell there will be a much greater market for a T-4 or T-8 as opposed to the T-2.
Chris,
You are wise to ask before purchasing. I have both a T4 and a T2 and will try to give a fair comparison.
My question for you is are you a sharpener or a cook who appreciates sharp knives? (There is no preferred answer.) The T2 is Tormek's latest model in their specialized machines designed for restaurants. One reason we do not see it as often as the T4 is that the T2 is marketed through restaurant suppliers, generally a different distribution channel than the regular Tormek dealers. The T2 is designed to be used by chefs and restaurant workers with little or no sharpening training. The diamond wheel is used dry. It requires no water. It also requires no truing or grading. There is no abrasive dust from the diamond wheel, and there is a built in magnet to catch most of the steel dust. The knife holding jig is essentially foolproof. The rubber honing wheel is also used dry with no honing compound.
Whether this is "limiting" or "specialized" may depend on your point of view or needs.
The T4 is definitely more versatile. If you plan to sharpen woodworking or woodturning tools, it is the no brainer choice.
Incidentally, the choice is not necessarily "either or". Within half an hour of unboxing my T2, I had both the diamond wheel and the rubber honing wheel mounted on my T4. Even the water trough from the T4 can be mounted on the T2. (This is in the possible category rather than the practical category.) I would call the two machines fraternal twins.
My gut feeling is that you won't go wrong with either choice. With the T4, you will need to purchase a TT-50 Truing Tool. I believe the price is $93US for it. If you need an SVM-45 Knife Jig, they cost around $40. I highly recommend that you make your choice based on the way you want to use it, rather than any cost difference. If you want very sharp knives for cooking with minimal fuss, the T2 is a very viable contender.
Do not hesitate to ask questions!
Ken
This is a fantastic answer. To answer your question- I love to cook 90% and 10% sharpening is therapeutic. I guess that's my answer. I have found, with my Spyderco system (however flawed) I do like the hobby side of sharpening.
Unfortunately, I can't justify buying both machines. I don't see myself sharpening tools as I'm not into woodworking. I do have some shovels, spades and a chisel I would sharpen if I have the T-4 - just because. Those would last me over a year due to minimal use.
My concerns with the T4 is I see several people ruining their knives and my issue with the T2 is it cannot sharpen (shockingly) cleavers.
Im a heavy lean towards the T4.
Again, thanks.
Interesting comments, Chris.
Let's look at this one piece at a time. At the risk of sounding low tech, I have always had good luck using a mill file to sharpen shovels and gardening tools. I'm not really a gardener, however, I carried a shovel in my telephone truck for over thirty years.
For one chisel, sharpened (maybe) once a year, some wet and dry sandpaper and a piece of flat glass will more than suffice. (I used this for a couple years, but do not mention this on the forum. I would be branded a heretic.)
Cleavers are a different matter. Until the very recent addition of the US-1430 extended universal support, Tormek did not provide a way to sharpen cleavers using the SVM-45. Using a T4 or T8, cleavers can be held far enough away with either a US-1430 (around $100US) or a Vertical Front Base from Knife Grinders (around $145US). Either way, you are looking at least $100 to be able to sharpen a cleaver with a jig and the T4.
With either the T4 or the T2, a cleaver can be sharpened with a small platform or freehand. Herman Trivileno has described a most workable homemade small platform for the T4 and T2. Curtis Womack has designed a very workable small platform for the T2. Both require some work, but get the job done.
Regular kitchen knives are well sharpened with either the T4 or T2.
We are here to help; don't hesitate to ask questions.
Ken
Thanks and I'm new here. Do you work for Tormek? I guess the way I'm looking at it now is this:
I can't go wrong with a T4 but I could go wrong with a T2 since it's more limited?
Again, thanks for your thoughtfulness.
No, I don't work for Tormek. I am long retired from Ma Bell (telephone company).
Glad to help.
Ken
Quote from: OrangeBeachReb on June 04, 2020, 02:35:15 AM
Thanks and I'm new here. Do you work for Tormek? I guess the way I'm looking at it now is this:
I can't go wrong with a T4 but I could go wrong with a T2 since it's more limited?
Again, thanks for your thoughtfulness.
Many of us have embarked on a quest to obtain sharper and sharper edges on our knives and tools. I think at some point in the past I was happy with the sharpness of a knife out of the box. Now I strive for egges that are far sharper. Last night I used a personal steak knife that I sharpened on my dinner steak. It was a true joy to use and it went through the steak with ease. If you want the versatility to achieve a truly remarkable edge I would urge you to go with the T-4. When I was in the market I wanted a T-4. When I looked at what came with the T-8 and what I would need with the T-4 the prices got very close. I ended up tith the T-8 and I have not regretted my decision.
John, your points are well taken. In an idealTormek world, I would price all the models the same. For a very long term purchase, the present price differences are really not significant. Ifthe prices were the same, we would focus on our intended uses. Those of us who need to sharpen turning tools, large drill bits, and planer blades would gravitate toward the T8. Woodcarvers, home shop sharpeners, and mobile would lean toward the T4. Cooks and restaurant owners would favor the T2.
If we just knew the future.......
Ken
Quote from: john.jcb on June 04, 2020, 04:51:06 AM
Quote from: OrangeBeachReb on June 04, 2020, 02:35:15 AM
Thanks and I'm new here. Do you work for Tormek? I guess the way I'm looking at it now is this:
I can't go wrong with a T4 but I could go wrong with a T2 since it's more limited?
Again, thanks for your thoughtfulness.
Many of us have embarked on a quest to obtain sharper and sharper edges on our knives and tools. I think at some point in the past I was happy with the sharpness of a knife out of the box. Now I strive for egges that are far sharper. Last night I used a personal steak knife that I sharpened on my dinner steak. It was a true joy to use and it went through the steak with ease. If you want the versatility to achieve a truly remarkable edge I would urge you to go with the T-4. When I was in the market I wanted a T-4. When I looked at what came with the T-8 and what I would need with the T-4 the prices got very close. I ended up tith the T-8 and I have not regretted my decision.
Interesting. Same here.... T-4 it is but I'll double check T-8 pricing vs T4.
Quote from: Ken S on June 04, 2020, 12:35:38 AM
Interesting comments, Chris.
Let's look at this one piece at a time. At the risk of sounding low tech, I have always had good luck using a mill file to sharpen shovels and gardening tools. I'm not really a gardener, however, I carried a shovel in my telephone truck for over thirty years.
For one chisel, sharpened (maybe) once a year, some wet and dry sandpaper and a piece of flat glass will more than suffice. (I used this for a couple years, but do not mention this on the forum. I would be branded a heretic.)
Cleavers are a different matter. Until the very recent addition of the US-1430 extended universal support, Tormek did not provide a way to sharpen cleavers using the SVM-45. Using a T4 or T8, cleavers can be held far enough away with either a US-1430 (around $100US) or a Vertical Front Base from Knife Grinders (around $145US). Either way, you are looking at least $100 to be able to sharpen a cleaver with a jig and the T4.
With either the T4 or the T2, a cleaver can be sharpened with a small platform or freehand. Herman Trivileno has described a most workable homemade small platform for the T4 and T2. Curtis Womack has designed a very workable small platform for the T2. Both require some work, but get the job done.
Regular kitchen knives are well sharpened with either the T4 or T2.
We are here to help; don't hesitate to ask questions.
Ken
Thanks a ton... I see you mentioned Curtis Womack and a T2 platform.... I've seen his name around, googled him and found sharpeningmadeeasy.com. Nothing on a t2... just making sure that's where i should go.
Quote from: OrangeBeachReb on June 04, 2020, 10:53:31 PM
Thanks a ton... I see you mentioned Curtis Womack and a T2 platform.... I've seen his name around, googled him and found sharpeningmadeeasy.com. Nothing on a t2... just making sure that's where i should go.
Curtis is "cbwx34" here on the forum.
I did an "Advanced Search" on his user name and "T2" and it came up empty. Searched again with the search term "platform" and came up with 30 posts by Curtis mentioning "plaftorm", but nothing about the T2. T4 yes, a fair bit.
Ken, perhaps you could post a link to what you were referring to. I couldn't find it.
BTW, Chris, if you are interested in the angle setting calculators, Curtis developed on of them, CalcApp. Click HERE (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4223.msg29834#msg29834) to view one post he made regarding it. But, he very graciously includes a link in his signature line to Rich Colvin's Sharpening Handbook page about all of the angle calculators (http://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexCalc.html).
Rick
As I recall, Curtis posted his small platform on facebook. He adapted the knife jig from his T2. I tried this and think it is the best thing going for small platforms. It actually works very well with all Tormek models. It is easily converted back to the T2 knife jig. The problem is cost. When I inquired about cost for the parts, apparently the first request, I was told that they would only be sold as an assembly for around $100US. This is unfortunate, as this would have been a very useful jig for all Tormeks.
I fumble with facebook searches. Chris, I suggest you send Curtis a private message.
Ken
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3610.0
8)
Thanks, CB. I still think Tormek is missing out on a very useful jig, and one which they have already incurred most of the design costs to produce.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on June 05, 2020, 04:23:35 PM
As I recall, Curtis posted his small platform on facebook. He adapted the knife jig from his T2. I tried this and think it is the best thing going for small platforms. It actually works very well with all Tormek models. It is easily converted back to the T2 knife jig. The problem is cost. When I inquired about cost for the parts, apparently the first request, I was told that they would only be sold as an assembly for around $100US. This is unfortunate, as this would have been a very useful jig for all Tormeks.
I fumble with facebook searches. Chris, I suggest you send Curtis a private message.
Ken
Thanks a ton!
Chris,
My honest opinion is that a T2 would serve you well with conventional chef knives. As you venture into other knives such as curved knives and cleavers, you enter the domain of the T4 and T8. With cleavers, if you want to use the SVM-45, you really need a US-1430 or a VFB from a third party.
Your safest bet would be a T8. I would also feel comfortable with a T4, although some would not.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on June 06, 2020, 02:58:20 AM
Chris,
My honest opinion is that a T2 would serve you well with conventional chef knives. As you venture into other knives such as curved knives and cleavers, you enter the domain of the T4 and T8. With cleavers, if you want to use the SVM-45, you really need a US-1430 or a VFB from a third party.
Your safest bet would be a T8. I would also feel comfortable with a T4, although some would not.
Ken
Sorry, but I'm confused. I thought the T4 was a smaller, and thus, pretty much the same as a T8. I know what a SVM-45 is but I've searched what a US-1430 is and cannot find what that is. Also, is a VFB the same as what Tormek calls their universal support? Finally, I only have one cleaver, so, if I do that freehand and/or with my Spyderco then I'm fine with that. I rarely use it.
Having said all that, I'm now wondering if I need to get a T8. :-\
Oops....I had a typo. "US-1430" should be US-430. Here is a link to its description from the Tormek website:
https://www.tormek.com/usa/en/spare-parts/other-spare-parts-and-upgrades/us-430-universal-support-extended/
Frankly, with only one cleaver you only use, if it was me, I would just freehand it or use the Spyderco. You can easily spend $100 to $150US in gear for one cleaver. Possible? yes Practical? no.
The US-430 and the FVB from Knife Grinders cross function somewhat, however they are not the same. I would suggest you forget about both for at least a year and concentrate on learning the traditional Tormek knife dharpening technique. I would also postpone all thoughts about any of the computer programs for a year. Some will disagree with me on this. Learn the basics.
Yes, the T4 is essentially a somewhat smaller version of the T8. It is also the very solid prototype on which the T8 is built. If you were looking for a truck, would you choose the full size model with the large V8 engine, club cab, and trailer package? Or, would you choose a smaller truck which would handle your two mile commute to work and cover your occasional hauling needs?
The biggest difference for a guy that will be sharpening kitchen knives (and may expand to carving one day) between the T4/T8 is the motor and that the T4 can only run 30 minutes an hour where the T8 is continual. I'm sure there are others but is that basically it or am I missing something major aside from stone size, etc?
AAARGH! I can hear Ken saying.... :o
That 30 min constraint is for the older model T4, before they changed to the cast zinc body, if I'm recalling things right. I understand the T4 does NOT currently have that constraint. I think I've read that Tormek mysteriously has retained the statement about the 30 min. limit in the current version of the manual.
Rick
Yeah, it's currently on their website saying it's 30/hr. You don't think that's the case anymore?
Quote from: OrangeBeachReb on June 07, 2020, 07:14:11 PM
Yeah, it's currently on their website saying it's 30/hr. You don't think that's the case anymore?
That is curious. I had heard it no longer applied, but if it is on their current website... ????
Ken... ???
Rick
Ken is the only one I know that says the 30min. doesn't apply to the T-4. I've never seen Tormek support this. That being said, I haven't seen any issues with the T-4 overheating, and for the home user, I doubt it's an issue.
While there is nothing wrong with "learning the basics"... it's quite frankly, ridiculous advice to tell someone to "wait a year" to use anything else. Many of the "aftermarket" items (FVB, calculators, etc.) are not replacements for something the Tormek can do, they were created because the stock "basic" setup CAN'T do them, or don't do them well (at all). But hey, if, for example, you want to learn a year later that the angle you've sharpened on some knives can be several degrees off because you were "using the basics"... by all means, follow his advice. ;)
I'm not sure why Ken decided to "muddy the waters" by suddenly saying "your safest bet would be a T-8"... since he's also said in other posts that he's "never seen anyone buy a T-4, then later decide to "upgrade" to a T-8". No idea why it's now the "safe" idea... so maybe he can expand on that.
For a home sharpener, the T-4 is fine. I haven't seen anything in your posts here or on FB that tells me any different. That's my .02. :)
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 07, 2020, 07:58:19 PM
Ken is the only one I know that says the 30min. doesn't apply to the T-4. I've never seen Tormek support this. That being said, I haven't seen any issues with the T-4 overheating, and for the home user, I doubt it's an issue.
While there is nothing wrong with "learning the basics"... it's quite frankly, ridiculous advice to tell someone to "wait a year" to use anything else. Many of the "aftermarket" items (FVB, calculators, etc.) are not replacements for something the Tormek can do, they were created because the stock "basic" setup CAN'T do them, or don't do them well (at all). But hey, if, for example, you want to learn a year later that the angle you've sharpened on some knives can be several degrees off because you were "using the basics"... by all means, follow his advice. ;)
I'm not sure why Ken decided to "muddy the waters" by suddenly saying "your safest bet would be a T-8"... since he's also said in other posts that he's "never seen anyone buy a T-4, then later decide to "upgrade" to a T-8". No idea why it's now the "safe" idea... so maybe he can expand on that.
For a home sharpener, the T-4 is fine. I haven't seen anything in your posts here or on FB that tells me any different. That's my .02. :)
Agree.. that was the first time someone thought a T8 was the better option but I was not clear why... maybe the cleaver? Anyhow, I'm going with the T4. What is the thrid party item I should buy? I saw a guy on YouTube that has a clear "ruler" type thing that seemed to be popular. It's called an "All In One Angle Tool"..... used with the calculator. Link: https://youtu.be/mZ8GxV04FOU
Quote from: OrangeBeachReb on June 07, 2020, 08:07:24 PM
Agree.. that was the first time someone thought a T8 was the better option but I was not clear why... maybe the cleaver? Anyhow, I'm going with the T4. What is the thrid party item I should buy? I saw a guy on YouTube that has a clear "ruler" type thing that seemed to be popular. It's called an "All In One Angle Tool"..... used with the calculator. Link: https://youtu.be/mZ8GxV04FOU
The Angle Tool is nice, and makes it pretty easy to learn the measuring part. But, you can also use a caliper, combination square... anything that lets you set the height of the bar with some accuracy.
There are some recent examples in this thread...
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4326.15
...most of this isn't as complicated as it looks. ;)
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 07, 2020, 08:39:37 PM
Quote from: OrangeBeachReb on June 07, 2020, 08:07:24 PM
...snip... I saw a guy on YouTube that has a clear "ruler" type thing that seemed to be popular. It's called an "All In One Angle Tool"..... used with the calculator. Link: https://youtu.be/mZ8GxV04FOU
The Angle Tool is nice, and makes it pretty easy to learn the measuring part. But, you can also use a caliper, combination square... anything that lets you set the height of the bar with some accuracy.
There are some recent examples in this thread...
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4326.15
...most of this isn't as complicated as it looks. ;)
Yes, the Angle Tool is simple and works well. I ordered one, it arrived broken and an replacement is on its way. I glued the broken one back together well enough to try it out. It does what it purports to do and it does it well enough. If I had not already invested so much in other tooling and wasn't so prone to liking things on the higher precision (whether meaningful or not), it would be an excellent choice and I would use it.
While checking it out, I also tried the rubber band idea that BobD posted a photo (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4326.msg30740#msg30740) of, which I have cropped and reposted below.
I like the rubber band, which I've tried with my usual USB setting tool, a woodworker's marking gauge, a small adjustable square and a fancy digital caliper (see photos below). I like the marking gauge best, but it is already part of my routine, so only natural that I'd prefer it. I've found the rubber band needs to be a relatively thin one, in order to be captured by the small amount of shaft thread that protrudes beyond the locking ring.
The rubber band solves the primary difficulty I was having with using "direct to the stone" distance setting, and that was ensuring the setting device was inline (parallel) with the axis between the USB bar and the shaft. The Angle Tool does this quite nicely, but I like the rubber band with my marking gauge better. It is quite easy and quick to sight along the rubber band and adjust the USB (upward) until the setting tool is parallel.
Rick
keyboard miss-stroke...