Hello everyone,
let me introduce essential tool for all knife-sharpeners –
TormekCalc.
TormekCalc is an Excel* spreadsheet that offers exact calculations and many advanced functions related to knife or tool grinding. It is new generation of the original spreadsheet TormekCalc (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3919.0). Although it may seem more complicated at first glance, for basic calculations you have to enter exactly the same values as in other calculators - Projection distance, Wheel diameter, Grinding angle (and measured machine-dependent constants).
Current version contains these sheets:
TormekCalc
It allows to calculate the exact distances/angles of different types of support bars from the grinding wheels or machines housing and thus obtain accurate grinder setting data to get desired angle after sharpening knives or tools. Although the name implies use with Tormek grinders only, TormekCalc can be used with any type of grinder.
Main features:
- Calculation of the Universal support bar (USB) height adjustment for all their types (Vertical, Horizontal, Frontal)
- Calculation of angle between Universal support bars (USB) and grinding wheel surface which allows setting heigth of USBs with an inclinometer or angle meter
- Calculation of the USB distance from the wheel surface
- Grinding angle shift (e.g. for deburring where higher angle than initial is required)
- Calculations are performed at the same time for all used grinding wheels!
- Knife / Tool selection - loading stored Knife / Tool grinding data
- Calculations can be made for different machines, machine selection is under grinding wheels
- Database selection - loading data from different sheets (Knives or Tools)
- Jig selection - loading stored jig specification
- Visible height limits for universal supports US-105 and US-430
- Knife / Tool info section – shows additional info for selected Knife / Tool
- Blade material info section – shows additional material info for selected Knife / Tool
BatchCalc [Non-public module]
Allows calculations for batch sharpening of multiple knives or tools without the need of repeated measuring because it calculates USB height difference between each steps and recalculates it to required Tormek Micro adjust nut turns. However all calculated heights are still available for USB setting or checking. For batch sharpening, of course, you need to have each knife or tool clamped in a separate jig. This version BatchCalc supports batch grinding up to 6 knives/tools in one go but it can be easily increased.
Using and capabilities can be found in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qtyTKqQb1g
Attention: For several different reasons, I have decided that Non-public modules will be freely available only to contributors and donors. Therefore shared public version of TormekCalc contains screenshot and the link to the presentation video only! There is a lot of work, time and know-how behind the development. If in doubt, please compare what the public version of TormekCalc (even the oldest) offers compared to commercially available applications. If you have further questions, you can send me a private message or e-mail message (see FAQ sheet in TormekCalc3).
Knives and Tools
It allows storing data about sharpened Knives or Tools including used jig, clamping, grinding procedure etc.
- "Picture" column automatically generates jpeg file name + link. To view a picture copy it to subfolder "Knives" or "Tools" with generated name.
BevelCalc
Allows reverse calculation of Bevel (grinded) angle through "marker method". USB height measurement can be taken from the surface of the grinding wheel or on any type of USB, it is also possible to enter angle between grinding wheel surface and USB.
Jig selection - loading stored jig specification.
Machine selection - loading stored machine constants.
EdgeCalc
Allows calculation of the height and length of the grinded edge which depends on the edge thickness. Calculations are made for flat (ideal) grind and for grind on a wheel, which allows to show deviations caused by roundness of grinding wheels and compare ideal vs real grind. Stored grinding data can be loaded from database.
CompCalc [Non-public module]
Allows calculation of the grinding angle compensation if wheels with different diameters are used for grinding.
It is a problem which, as far as I know, was first described by Gilles in this post and calculated using the Polishing angle calc (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4326.30), which is still available there. CompCalc is based on Polishing angle calc, all credit belongs to Gilles.
Materials
The sheet which allows storing and showing information about various materials used for knife or tool making and material related sharpening procedures or notes.
Basic material information and material related sharpening procedures/notes are also displayed in TormekCalc sheet if the knife/tool is selected through drop down list and blade material is stored in the Knives/Tools sheet. If an exact match isn't found in the Materials table, program tries to find first match in the material Aliases, if the search is successful, offers the matching material, if not, it tries to find the match in the Proprietary equivalents.
Hardness
A new sheet containing information/convert tables for different hardness scales.
Jigs
Allows storing properties of various jigs (even own or from other producers) and consequently using them for the calculations and for quick jigs selection through drop-down list. It includes Projection length correction X+ which is intended for cases where it's imposible accurately measure the projection length (measuring point inside the jig). Correction X+ is then automatically added to the length that was measured at another point on the jig (e.g. SE-77).
Wheels [New]
New sheet which contains a list of available wheels for various Tormek grinders (T-8, T-4, etc.) and possibly for other ones. On the TormekCalc sheet, the wheels in use are selected from this list.
Settings
Allows setting default values for all sheets in one place.
Allows specifying dimensional constants for different grinding machines. Defined machine setting can be used for calculation in TormekCalc and BevelCalc sheets and it helps in all situations when grinding on multiple machines. The machine selection allows automatic calculations without the need to manually enter dimensional corrections.
Specification is universal and is not limited to Tormek machines only, it works virtually with any grinder.
FAQ
Just a few answers to Frequently Asked Questions. (Single bevel knives, FVB, etc.)
Languages
Multilanguage support. Currently available languages: English, Czech, French (thanks Gilles!) and German (thanks Stephan!)
VB [New]
New sheet which contains VBA tools - Backup and Data Import from previous TormekCalc versions.
Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.Enjoy!
jvh
*) Tested with versions Excel 2010, Excel 2013, Excel 2016, Excel 2019, Excel 2021. Not compatible with Excel 365 since version 3.10.
Not compatible with Google Sheets and others which don't support Structured references.
Attention!Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc version 2.1+ available only via external web storage.
Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/ZPRC77zYu8)
(WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly, PM me for the password).
Current version 3.10
(TormekCalc_Public_v310.zip, packed size 2 859 167 bytes, TormekCalc_Public_v310.xlsm, unpacked size 3 000 289 bytes + sample pictures in the Knives and Tools folders.)
Screenshots...
Thank you JHV!
It looks very good, i have used the V1 for a long time, and looking forward to use V2!
You have done a very good job!
Even
Jvh, than you very much for sharing the upgrade to your TormekCalc. In my thinking the TormekCalc2 is professionally made Excel spreadsheet which offers all what a Tormeker may need and even more. It is sophisticated script supplemented with perfect explanatory drawings.
Thank you for offering the software for free. It's very generous! You made me very happy! I do not even want to think what price would be, for such a unique software, charged by some entrepreneurs.
Jan
JVH:
I've added this to the Sharpening Handbook : http://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexCalcTormekCalc2.html
Please let me know if you'd like any changes.
Kind regards,
Rich
Quote from: RichColvin on January 29, 2020, 01:14:00 AM
I've added this to the Sharpening Handbook : http://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexCalcTormekCalc2.html
Kind regards,
Rich
Thank you! I really appreciate it.
jvh
Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your sharing your work on this. I look forward to "checking my work" with your spreadsheet using the marker method, as well as many other fine features. This was not an easy task to put together - thank you again for this. Haven't used it yet (though I have your earlier version, along with some modifications I've made myself - but here's everything I was thinking of and a whole lot more). I'm already excited about it. I do many things well, but trigonometry and spreadsheets are not two of them!
JVH,
Thank you for this super Excel sheet.
Extreme happy with it.
Also thank you for your help with setting up my FVB, it works super.
Harold
(https://i.imgur.com/aFHeKg4.jpg)
Wow, I just noticed this.
Awesome, this works even nicer than an application, because it generates values for multiple disks at one go.
I posted this on the newbie forum (Tips and tricks) and got kind responses and was asked to repost here. Anybody have these constants for T-4?
I am a total newbie and I am trying to use TormekCalc for T-4 but none of the constants are available for that machine.
Looking for constants for T-4: VH, HH, HV, VV as shown in the attached drawing
jvh kindly responded: "From some older notes I have: VH=66 HH=29 HV=50 VV=20. (I didn't double check... so do some testing to verify).
Also just so you know, you can use the "T USB" measurement... which measures from the top of the USB to the top of the wheel... that measurement doesn't need the machine measurements. (The machine measurements only matter if you're setting the USB by measuring to the machine). :)"
Very nice work for a complex level of geometry. I am having difficulty with errors after unzipping the two files. I also downloaded and installed the full file from the website using the Slow Download. The Dropdown feature for the Knives worksheet is disabled or does not work in the TormekCalc worksheet. I am attaching the results of the repair log file.
I am using Excel 2007 if that is the issue.
Regards
Bryan D
Quote from: Bryan D on May 19, 2020, 04:47:05 PM
I am using Excel 2007 if that is the issue.
Regards
Bryan D
Hello,
thank you for your feedback. Unfortunately Excel 2007 isn't supported. There are problems with data validation (was in your report), conditional formatting and function "Aggregate" is missing. Sorry.
jvh
I installed Excel 2010. Everything is working. I had developed an Excel worksheet to calculate the vertical height of the USB but it was just for the three grades of Tormek diamond wheels that I use. Your calculated numbers are "bang on". I can appreciate the many hours you poured into the development of the TormekCalc2. Thank you for that and thank you for sharing.
Best regards
Bryan
Hello everyone,
new public version of
TormekCalc2 is available (v2.15).
Main News:
Materials
New sheet which allows storing and showing information about various materials used for knife or tool making and material related sharpening procedures or notes.
Basic material information and material related sharpening procedures/notes are also displayed in TormekCalc sheet if the knife/tool is selected through drop down list and blade material is stored in the Knives/Tools sheet. If an exact match isn't found in the Materials table, program tries to find first match in the material Aliases, if the search is successful, offers the matching material, if not, it tries to find the match in the Proprietary equivalents.
Currently 167 materials are in table + their aliases and proprietary equivalents. Not all data are filled in, nor sharpening procedures. If you want to participate and complete them just send me updated material list.
Filtered drop down lists
If you apply any Filter in the tables Knives, Tools or Materials related drop down lists are filtered too. Useful for easier selection when a large number of records are in these tables.
Wheels
Added composite honing wheel CW-220 to the Wheel table.
And much more
Internal changes, more setting options, FAQ update. See internal help in cell's comments for more info.
Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.Enjoy!
jvh
Thanks for the update.
One thing you might consider adding is grinding wheel circumference instead of diameter. Divide by pi for diameter.
Quote from: jvh on June 11, 2020, 01:22:50 AM
Hello everyone,
new public version of TormekCalc2 is available (v2.14).
...
Wow! Impressive!
Where did the materials info come from?
BTW... so far so good on Excel (Office) 365. ;D
Quote from: john.jcb on June 11, 2020, 01:55:27 AM
One thing you might consider adding is grinding wheel circumference instead of diameter. Divide by pi for diameter.
Just add formula "=<grinding wheel circumference>/PI()" to the appropriate Real diameter D cell, e.g.
=785,4/PI()Quote from: cbwx34 on June 11, 2020, 01:58:39 AM
Where did the materials info come from?
Sources are mentioned at the end of Materials sheet. Main were www.zknives.com, www.bladehq.com, www.agrussell.com, http://www.knifesteelnerds.com and Wiki. Some info was taken from steel producers specification.
jvh
JVH, thanks for sharing the updated version of TormekCalc2. Highly appreciated!
As an occasional knife maker I invite the new sheet with material parameters. I could imagine also basic heat treating info here.
Jan
Quote from: jvh on June 11, 2020, 10:28:48 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 11, 2020, 01:58:39 AM
Where did the materials info come from?
Sources are mentioned at the end of Materials sheet. Main were www.zknives.com, www.bladehq.com, www.agrussell.com, http://www.knifesteelnerds.com and Wiki. Some info was taken from steel producers specification.
jvh
Ok. Thanks. (I did look...). :-\
Probably one of the most comprehensive I've seen.
Can someone confirm that they can actually get a dropdown menu where you can choose machine in the TormekCalc sheet.
I can't get it to work even after reinstalling and trying every other trick i know.
I have tried three different computers and a mac and can't get a dropdown menu on any of them :(
Love the spreadsheet but really need this feature
Quote from: Fluehue on June 16, 2020, 11:50:40 PM
Can someone confirm that they can actually get a dropdown menu where you can choose machine in the TormekCalc sheet.
I can't get it to work even after reinstalling and trying every other trick i know.
I have tried three different computers and a mac and can't get a dropdown menu on any of them :(
Love the spreadsheet but really need this feature
Hello Fluehue,
thank you for your report in PM, I found the problem (different language version of Excel / translated names of functions). I will release updated version (2.15) as soon as possible.
jvh
Hello everyone,
new version of TormekCalc
2 (v2.15) has just been released, please upgrade. Download link is in the first post.
News:
Fixed error with generating Machine drop down lists on TormekCalc and BevelCalc sheets.
jvh
I am not sure if I asked this but I thought of it while reading posts on using a sharpie.
Do you think it would be useful to have the program give the sharpening angle using the USB height and wheel diameter as inputs. This way you could accurately know and in the future replicate any blades sharpening angle.
Quote from: john.jcb on June 17, 2020, 07:17:49 PM
I am not sure if I asked this but I thought of it while reading posts on using a sharpie.
Do you think it would be useful to have the program give the sharpening angle using the USB height and wheel diameter as inputs. This way you could accurately know and in the future replicate any blades sharpening angle.
Hello,
do you mean
BevelCalc? It's already part of TormekCalc
2...
BevelCalc allows reverse calculation of Bevel (grinded) angle through "marker method". USB height measurement can be taken from the surface of the grinding wheel or on any type of USB.jvh
Hi john,
There is a very nice functionality in Excel that allows you to do it in the Tormek Calc Sheet. I dont know exactly the name as my Excel is in French.
In the Data Tools group, click the What-if Analysis drop-down and choose Goal seek.
'Set cell' is the USB value
'To value' is the USB Value for which you whant to know the angle
and 'By changing cell' is the grinding angle cell.
When you press OK, Excel search the grinding angle that gives the USB value you have specify.
I hope this answer your request
Gilles
Moin,
another newbie with a T4 here.
First of all many thanks for this great tool! When I first heard about the Android app I thought this was screaming for an Excel implementation and considered figuring out the math myself. But I would never have gotten it that nice and complete.
Quotejvh kindly responded: "From some older notes I have: VH=66 HH=29 HV=50 VV=20. (I didn't double check... so do some testing to verify).
I tried to measure my T4 with a digital slide gauge and came up with VH = 67, HH = 29, HV= 49 and VV= 20. The off by 1mm could well be attributed to my sloppy measurement.
Anyway I used TormekCalc
2 with these values instead of the WM-200 on the sixth knife I ever sharpened and am proud to say that this gave my best edge so far.
Hajo
Quote from: HajoK on June 24, 2020, 10:35:11 PM
Moin,
another newbie with a T4 here.
First of all many thanks for this great tool! When I first heard about the Android app I thought this was screaming for an Excel implementation and considered figuring out the math myself. But I would never have gotten it that nice and complete.
Quotejvh kindly responded: "From some older notes I have: VH=66 HH=29 HV=50 VV=20. (I didn't double check... so do some testing to verify).
I tried to measure my T4 with a digital slide gauge and came up with VH = 67, HH = 29, HV= 49 and VV= 20. The off by 1mm could well be attributed to my sloppy measurement.
Anyway I used TormekCalc2 with these values instead of the WM-200 on the sixth knife I ever sharpened and am proud to say that this gave my best edge so far.
Hajo
Thanks for doing this... I'm glad to see others taking measurements and posting the results.
Hello HajoK,
thank you for your feedback and sharing measured constants of T-4.
As of version 2.14, an information table with a range of measured constants for various machines is on the Settings sheet (so far only constants for T-8 and T-4 are available).
Current T-4 constants ranges are (including your measurements):
HV 49,0-51,1
VV 19,5-20,0
HH 29,0
VH 66,0-67,0
If you want to check your constants setting, do it through T dimension (distance from USB to wheel surface S).
From TormekCalc2 FAQ:
Q: How can I check the height calculations for different Univesal support bars (USB's)?
A: Use T dimension (distance from USB to wheel surface S). This dimension stays the same for all USB's on the same wheel. Set the USB to the calculated distance T USB and then measure appropriate USB height. Compare measured value with the calculated one. If the values match, the constants for the selected support are set correctly, if not, the dimensions of the constants must be checked/re-measured. Repeat the procedure for next USB. Measure on trued wheel or use the same point on the surface to eliminate deviations given by an uneven wheel. You can use inserted spacer between the wheel and the USB for easy setting because precise measuring T distance can be tricky without suitable tool. Calculate the corresponding grinding angle in BevelCalc in this case.
jvh
Quote from: jvh on June 25, 2020, 10:20:19 AM
...
Current T-4 constants ranges are (including your measurements):
HV 49,0-51,1
VV 19,5-20,0
HH 29,0
VH 66,0-67,0
While I appreciate the work here, I'd like to offer a bit of caution to others, especially if you're new to this... Don't get caught up in the decimals. ;)
For example, using the "extremes" of the HV and VV measurements here, results in a change of less than 1°.
With all that is going on, I think it's a bit of a fallacy to think that we're making changes of fractions of a degree (especially when switching between different wheels or machines), and that these minute changes are producing claimed results. I've seen others (and include myself here, when I first dove into this), make entire changes to their calculators, based on tiny changes in machine measurements. IMO, just not possible to be that precise.
Nothing wrong with being as accurate as possible, but in most cases, it will make little difference. Consistency is important too... so pick numbers that work for you, and just stick with them... don't change every time someone posts a new set of measurements. Then find a consistent, repeatable way making the measurement and stick with it.
The goal here is simply an easy and more accurate way of setting angles on knives, and eliminating some of the issues that other methods have. I think of it as a simple calculator that gives me a quick and repeatable result (which is why I now just use the 'T' distance between the USB and wheel... it simplifies the process), not a computer program giving me decimal point accuracy. :)
(BTW, this in no way disparages the work done by jvh here... I just don't want others, especially if new, to get overwhelmed, or take it for more than it is).
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 25, 2020, 02:25:53 PM
...
The goal here is simply an easy and more accurate way of setting angles on knives, and eliminating some of the issues that other methods have.
...
A "simple adjustment" has become a religion with computer based rituals and glorification of decimals. ;)
Hello gentlemen,
just to be clear, I mentioned possible ranges of constants from different machines. I don't know how they were measured, but they should provide a guide to where the constants should be.
I know that is hard to measure constansts with such accuracy, therefore I mentioned check through T dimension, because it allows you to make constants correction and then you need ... decimals. You only have to do this once for each machine, because the constants remain the same, so in this case I do not consider more time needed for accurate measurement and adjustment to be a problem.
And the rest is about personal preferences, Excel has Increase decimal and Decrease decimal buttons, you can customize cells as you wish and work with chosen accuracy. There is such possibility. Moreover you can try more approaches and choose the one that suits you...
jvh
Quote from: jvh on June 26, 2020, 11:39:13 AM
Hello gentlemen,
just to be clear, I mentioned possible ranges of constants from different machines. I don't know how they were measured, but they should provide a guide to where the constants should be.
I know that is hard to measure constansts with such accuracy, therefore I mentioned check through T dimension, because it allows you to make constants correction and then you need ... decimals. You only have to do this once for each machine, because the constants remain the same, so in this case I do not consider more time needed for accurate measurement and adjustment to be a problem.
And the rest is about personal preferences, Excel has Increase decimal and Decrease decimal buttons, you can customize cells as you wish and work with chosen accuracy. There is such possibility. Moreover you can try more approaches and choose the one that suits you...
jvh
Your first part I agree with. It's good to have a good sampling of measurements, to help "dial in" where it should be.
But the 2nd part is what I mean. There's nothing wrong with using the 'T' measurement to check things, in fact I started to put it in my original answer. But saying you "need... decimals" to verify everything to "decimal point" accuracy, really won't matter. We have it available, and nothing wrong with using it, but what I was trying to say is, if in few months, more measurements are provided, and the average changes a bit, there's no reason to update your personal calculations to reflect that. (Which is what was happening at one point in all this, and I'm guilty too). :-[ Just stick with consistency of what you have.
From my earlier example... taking the extremes of the horizontal and vertical measurements if I wanted to sharpen a knife at 20°, it gave a range of 19.17-20.87. Now combine that with the fact that I would have to take 3 or 4 other measurements to set the angle, plus combine that with other variables... see what I mean? In the end, it's just a better, and (if you don't think of it as a computer, but just a calculator), easier way to set angle... especially if you're not trying to set it to the .xx accuracy.
I can guarantee that the sharpness that some are getting is not based on decimal point accuracy, as much as it is finding
a good consistent path to sharpness and refining it. It has way more to do with technique, pressure, consistency, etc. than it does decimal points. You could get the same results saying for example, "turn the microadjust two clicks" vs. "set the angle .5° higher"... same result, but easier... if that makes sense.
Like I said... nothing to do with your work here... it's a great resource. I'm mainly just trying not to scare people off thinking it's too involved to bother with. ;) It's really just a simple calculator in the end, and to me the best, easiest, and most consistent way to set the angle on knives.
Quote from: Dutchman on June 26, 2020, 10:20:50 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 25, 2020, 02:25:53 PM
...
The goal here is simply an easy and more accurate way of setting angles on knives, and eliminating some of the issues that other methods have.
...
A "simple adjustment" has become a religion with computer based rituals and glorification of decimals. ;)
;D
Last week I was shaping a new blade for an outdoor knife. I used the TormekCalc2 to calculate the length of the hollow grind (HR). My blade was 3 mm thick and for primary bevel angle of 3⁰ per side I calculated 14 mm length of the grind. The wheel diameter was 252.5 mm.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on June 26, 2020, 03:14:56 PM
Last week I was shaping a new blade for an outdoor knife. I used the TormekCalc2 to calculate the length of the hollow grind (HR). My blade was 3 mm thick and for primary bevel angle of 3⁰ per side I calculated 14 mm length of the grind. The wheel diameter was 252.5 mm.
Jan
Actually, it was 13.878 ;) :D
Nice knife!
Yes, CB, you are correct! :)
For a knife maker it is nice to have the grind length under control. The picture shows how it was done. Initial belt grit was 40! After the heat treatment the blade is mounted in the jig in the same way for the finial grinding.
The knife design was inspired by Bob Loveless iconic 4" drop point knife.
Jan
Quote from: Jan on June 26, 2020, 08:13:19 PM
...
For a knife maker it is nice to have the grind length under control. The picture shows how it was done.
...
Did you design and or make that jig? (I just happened to listen to a podcast this a.m. where they were talking about jigs in knife making).
The jig is my prototype of a self-centring knife jig for Tormek which was inspired by the knife clamp for Lansky controlled-angle system. It was described here: https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3834.msg25694#msg25694
Jan
So while I've "played around" with TormekCalc, yesterday I took it in the 'shop' and used it to do some sharpening. What a great calculator.
One thing I did (not earth shattering) was to duplicate the TormekCalc sheet, and set one up for each machine. Seemed to work without any issues, and let me set the parameters for each machine independently.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=4588)
Anyway, worked well!
Quote from: cbwx34 on July 08, 2020, 06:55:57 PM
So while I've "played around" with TormekCalc, yesterday I took it in the 'shop' and used it to do some sharpening. What a great calculator.
Thank you, I appreciate that, especially considering you're also developing your own calculator.
Quote from: cbwx34
One thing I did (not earth shattering) was to duplicate the TormekCalc sheet, and set one up for each machine. Seemed to work without any issues, and let me set the parameters for each machine independently.
Anyway, worked well!
Yes, it should work too. But you can specify different machines
directly in Specification sheet and then select appropriate ones in the Wheel table on TormekCalc sheet - see pictures.
jvh
Quote from: jvh on July 08, 2020, 08:27:46 PM
Quote from: cbwx34 on July 08, 2020, 06:55:57 PM
So while I've "played around" with TormekCalc, yesterday I took it in the 'shop' and used it to do some sharpening. What a great calculator.
Thank you, I appreciate that, especially considering you're also developing your own calculator.
Mine is a Casio watch app compared to yours. ;)
Quote from: jvh on July 08, 2020, 08:27:46 PM
Quote from: cbwx34
One thing I did (not earth shattering) was to duplicate the TormekCalc sheet, and set one up for each machine. Seemed to work without any issues, and let me set the parameters for each machine independently.
Anyway, worked well!
Yes, it should work too. But you can specify different machines directly in Specification sheet and then select appropriate ones in the Wheel table on TormekCalc sheet - see pictures.
jvh
True... I did work with that a bit... but giving each machine it's own page allowed my simple mind ??? to see all the variables for each machine, as well as the calculations in one place. :)
(if that makes sense).Either way, I like it.
Hello,
I've just added multilanguage support to new beta version of TormekCalc2. (But help in comments stays in English only - not possible to change it there without using VBA.)
If anyone wants to help with translation into other languages, please send me PM. I will send you a link to the latest version which contains language strings (currently English + Czech).
jvh
Hello everyone,
new public version of
TormekCalc2 is available (v2.40).
Main News:
Multilanguage support
New sheet named ,,Languages" was added, it contains all strings used in cells. Translations to other languages can be entered here. Currently included are Default (hard-coded English strings), English and Czech.
Language can be select through the drop-downlist in Settings sheet.
Please note that help in comments stays in English only, because it is not possible to change it without using VBA. Compromises were made due to table headers that could not be translated. New row with translation was inserted here, please hide it if you use English as default language.
Gringing angle shift ±Δ
Added to TormekCalc sheet, it allows shifting grinding angle for any wheel.
Useful eg. for:
- Honing where a higher angle is required for final burr removal.
- Grinding or honing microbevel.
- Grinding if the initial wheel has much smaller diameter than next ones, to avoid problems with grinding the edge heel instead of the edge tip.
The calculation with the shifted angle is indicated by the values being displayed between two dots.
"AngleJig" calculation
Added to TormekCalc sheet, it allows setting heigth of USBs by calculated angle using an inclinometer or angle meter.
Setting with an inclinometer seems to be very easy and quick because requires the angle measuring between grinding wheel surface and vertical USB support (with reset on horizontal or vertical plane).
For more info see https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?&topic=4393.0
New picture with angles description was added to TormekCalc sheet.
Please note that this is the first and unique approach how to measure USB height this way and this feature is still in experimental mode.
BevelCalc sheet changes
Now allows reverse calculation of grinded angle Δ via ,,AngleJig" measurement, see above.
New picture with angles description was added to BevelCalc sheet.
And much more...
Internal changes, corrections, settings changes - for detailed info see internal help in cell's comments.
If you don't plan to use any of the functions included in TormekCalc2 just hide unused row(s), column(s), sheet(s) etc. TormekCalc2 is fully customizable. ;)
Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.Enjoy!
jvh
Attention!Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc2 version 2.1+ available only on external web storage.
Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/maOkyRTe4J/tormekcalc2-public-v240-zip)
(WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly).
Current version 2.40
(TormekCalc2_Public_v240.zip, packed size 7881884 B, TormekCalc_Public_v240.xlsx, unpacked size 874746 bytes + sample pictures in Knives and Tools folders.)
Quote from: jvh on July 31, 2020, 12:45:05 AM
...
"AngleJig" calculation
Added to TormekCalc sheet, it allows setting heigth of USBs by calculated angle using an inclinometer or angle meter.
Setting with an inclinometer seems to be very easy and quick because requires the angle measuring between grinding wheel surface and vertical USB support (with reset on horizontal or vertical plane).
For more info see https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?&topic=4393.0
New picture with angles description was added to TormekCalc sheet.
Please note that this is the first and unique approach how to measure USB height this way and this feature is still in experimental mode.
...
Well... I'm not gonna bet the farm on one trial run, but I set the USB the "old" way :D ... then checked the angle...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=4676)
... maybe you're onto somethin' here. ;)
Hello.
Is there anyone who have measured the constants on a Tormek T7?
VH=? HH=? HV=? VV=?
I am getting an old T7 to use with my t8, i can messure when i get it, but maybe there are someone out her who alredy have done it.
Even
Hello everyone,
new public version of
TormekCalc2 is available (v2.44).
Main News:
Multilanguage support
Added French translation. (Thank you Gilles!)
Language can be select through the drop-downlist in Settings sheet.
Please note that help in comments stays in English only, because it is not possible to change it without using VBA. Compromises were made due to table headers that could not be translated. New row with translation was inserted here, please hide it if you use English as default language.
"AngleJig" calculation
Formulas were optimized.
Display of the reset is now configurable in Setting sheet - Show angle ...USB for reset(s) = h (horizontal), v (vertical), h / v (both).
Setting sheet changes
Added help in cell comments for default settings (English only).
And much more...
Internal changes, corrections, SVS-50 pictures in Jigs sheet, etc.
If you don't plan to use any of the functions included in TormekCalc2 just hide unused row(s), column(s), sheet(s) etc. TormekCalc2 is fully customizable. ;)
Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.Hint: If you have data in Knives or Tools sheet just select all uses rows between column C to AD (included), copy them to clipboard (Ctrl+C) and paste them
as VALUES to new version of TormekCalc2.
Enjoy!
jvh
Attention!Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc2 version 2.1+ available only on external web storage.
Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/HqRHECWou5/tormekcalc2-public-v244-zip)
(WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly).
Current version 2.44
(TormekCalc2_Public_v244.zip, packed size 1 083 740 bytes, TormekCalc_Public_v244.xlsx, unpacked size 1 080 936 bytes + sample pictures in the Knives and Tools folders.)
I'm always impressed by the updates. I think you have more code in one "cell" than I do in an entire app! Your command of Excel is impressive.
Thanks for the update!
Hello again,
I sharpened some stuff on tool rest SVD-110 and realized that it is possible to count and set desired angle in TormekCalc2. If is someone interested to test and verify it before releasing, you can find settings data for Jig sheet in the picture below. After entering these data new jigs appear on TormekCalc (Tools database) and BevelCalc sheets.
Measured values are taken from standard SVD-110 tool rest, I think they can vary a little bit on other batches. Calculation for modified or user made tool rests is possible, you just need to specify new jig and add correct values on Jig sheet.
- For calculation you have to select Jig "SVD-110 long side" or "SVD-110 short side", enter Projection length and desired Grinding angle (see picture Calculation.jpg).
- For setting you have to set calculated USB height and then set the tool rest angle via projection length (see picture Setting via projection length.jpg).
- Reverse calculation of the angle set on tool rest can be done on BevelCalc sheet.
Attention:
Angle is calculated on the tool rest plane. The grinded apex may be higher due material thickness, therefore angle correction may be necessary. Use EdgeCalc sheet to calculate correct Angle at edge heel (preferred) or change Tool diameter to shift the axis of the apex to the right position.
Setting can be tricky at first because it can be difficult to find ideal projection length for given grinding angle, but if you find it once you can use it over and over again. And have you ever seen other app for the tool rest angle calculation? ;)
jvh
Quote from: jvh on October 20, 2020, 10:15:22 PM
Hello again,
I sharpened some stuff on tool rest SVD-110 and realized that it is possible to count and set desired angle in TormekCalc2. If is someone interested to test and verify it before releasing, you can find settings data for Jig sheet in the picture below. After entering these data new jigs appear on TormekCalc (Tools database) and BevelCalc sheets.
Measured values are taken from standard SVD-110 tool rest, I think they can vary a little bit on other batches. Calculation for modified or user made tool rests is possible, you just need to specify new jig and add correct values on Jig sheet.
- For calculation you have to select Jig "SVD-110 long side" or "SVD-110 short side", enter Projection length and desired Grinding angle (see picture Calculation.jpg).
- For setting you have to set calculated USB height and then set the tool rest angle via projection length (see picture Setting via projection length.jpg).
- Reverse calculation of the angle set on tool rest can be done on BevelCalc sheet.
Attention:
Angle is calculated on the tool rest plane. The grinded apex may be higher due material thickness, therefore angle correction may be necessary. Use EdgeCalc sheet to calculate correct Angle at edge heel (preferred) or change Tool diameter to shift the axis of the apex to the right position.
Setting can be tricky at first because it can be difficult to find ideal projection length for given grinding angle, but if you find it once you can use it over and over again. And have you ever seen other app for the tool rest angle calculation? ;)
jvh
I didn't spend a lot of time on it, but just adding your numbers into TormekCalc, playing with the variables, and checking it with an AngleMaster, I didn't see any red flags (other than usual finicky AM). :)
I just measured directly to the SVD and didn't add any tools/knives into the mix at this point. I'm not much of an SVD-110 user, so hopefully someone who is will give it a more in depth test for you.
Have a diagram? (Always helps me to see what's actually going on...). :)
Good stuff (as usual)!
Quote from: cbwx34 on October 21, 2020, 10:26:04 PM
Have a diagram? (Always helps me to see what's actually going on...). :)
Good stuff (as usual)!
Hello,
at your service... ;)
First example shows SVD-110 set at 25° on tool rest plane, which means that this angle will be reached at edge heel.
Drawing is CAD simulation with all needed dimensions, first screnshot is TormekCalc calculation, second one is from EdgeCalc sheet where you can see calculated Angle at the edge heel 25° which means that grinded angle at the apex will be 18,86° on showed example (symmetrical grind). You can find the grinded angle value manually by trial and error method (not too difficult) or via Excel function What-If Analysis/Goal Seek.
Second example shows SVD-110 set at 25° at the apex. Blade grind is symmetrical again and axis lays 5 mm above tool rest plane (10 mm = blade thickness).
Drawing is CAD simulation with all needed dimensions, screenshot is TormekCalc calculation where you have to change jig diameter M value ( +10 mm (2*5) because it is diameter and axis lays 5 mm above tool rest). The last screenshot is calculation from EdgeCalc sheet again.
jvh
The same program could be applied to homemade small platforms; although, as they are generally one off, dimensions would not be standardized.
Ken
Quote from: jvh on October 24, 2020, 12:20:47 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on October 21, 2020, 10:26:04 PM
Have a diagram? (Always helps me to see what's actually going on...). :)
Good stuff (as usual)!
Hello,
at your service... ;)
jvh
Thanks! 🤯 :)
Quote from: Ken S on October 24, 2020, 02:29:12 PM
The same program could be applied to homemade small platforms; although, as they are generally one off, dimensions would not be standardized.
Ken
That's what nice about his spreadsheet... easily allows you to enter your own parameters.
Ah ha........clever.
Ken
Hello everyone,
new public and non-public version of
TormekCalc2 is available (v2.63).
Main News:
BatchCalc [New non-public module]
Allows calculations for batch sharpening of multiple knives or tools without the need of repeated measuring because it calculates USB height difference between each steps and recalculates it to required Tormek Micro adjust nut turns. However all calculated heights are still available for USB setting or checking. For batch sharpening, of course, you need to have each knife or tool clamped in a separate jig. This version BatchCalc supports batch grinding up to 6 knives/tools in one go but it can be easily increased.
New drop-down list contains a merged database of knives and tools for quick selection of stored grinding data, and it is also possible to select any of the supported jigs, allowing you to perform batch grinding at once without restriction. All needed grinding values and/or corrections can be entered manually too as well as angle shift for selected wheels (eg. for honing).
Calculated sequence of grinding steps depends on used wheels, USB types and machines.
Setting by turning of Micro adjust nut is very quick (except when many turns are needed) and very precise. All Tormek Micro adjust nuts are graduated for each 0,25 mm = 1/6 of turn, which increase/decrease the USB height by 0,25 mm.
Displayed resolution of required Micro adjust nut turns is adjustable in three steps, default is 0,5 which means that calculated values are rounded to the halves of the micro adjust nut graduating (0,5/6 of turn), eg. "▲ 1 1,5/6". Other possible steps are 0,25 (0,25/6 of turn) and 1 (1/6 of turn).
Using and capabilities can be found in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qtyTKqQb1g
Because this module is IMHO far from the needs of hobbyists and completely out of the class of any competing application (like the whole TC2 ;) ), I decided that it will be freely available only for contributors and donors, who can imagine how much time it takes and already took the development of this calculator. Therefore shared public version of TormekCalc2 contains screenshot and the link to the presentation video only! I will send a link and password to all contributors to download the full version, if you do not receive an e-mail in a short time, please PM me.
Multilanguage support
Added German translation. (Thank you Stephan!)
Language can be select through the drop-downlist in Settings sheet.
Please note that help in comments stays in English only, because it is not possible to change it without using VBA. Compromises were made due to table headers that could not be translated. New row with translation was inserted here, please hide it if you use English as default language.
SVD-110 Tool rest settings/calculations are supported now
Default setting for SVD-110 was added to ,,Jigs" sheet.
- For calculation you have to select Jig "SVD-110 long side" or "SVD-110 short side", enter Projection length and desired Grinding angle.
- For setting you have to set calculated USB height and then set the tool rest angle via projection length.
- Reverse calculation of the set angle on tool rest can be done on BevelCalc sheet.
More info you can find in this topic – see Reply #46 and Reply #48
Just a reminder - TC2 allows you to specify/add new (custom) jigs directly on the "Jigs" sheet and use them when needed for calculations via "Jig selection" drop-down list.
Wheels table on the TormekCalc sheet
Added new wheels, now table contains 19 wheels + 4 custom
EdgeCalc
Added the row ,,Hollow (real) grind depth [mm]" which shows the deviation from the flat grind caused by radius of the wheel.
Settings
Added 5 more machines to Machines table (in hidden columns), now is possible to specify settings for 10 different machines.
And much more...
Internal changes, corrections, bug fixes, comments etc.
If you don't plan to use any of the functions included in TormekCalc2 just hide unused row(s), column(s), sheet(s) etc. TormekCalc2 is fully customizable. ;)
Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.Hint: If you have data in Knives or Tools sheet just select all uses rows between column C to AD (included), copy them to clipboard (Ctrl+C) and paste them
as VALUES to new version of TormekCalc2.
Enjoy!
jvh
Attention!Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc2 version 2.1+ available only on external web storage.
Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/zAeZhD0mJY)
(WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly).
Current version 2.63
(TormekCalc2_Public_v263.zip, packed size 1 487 684 bytes, TormekCalc_Public_v263.xlsx, unpacked size 1 555 756 bytes + sample pictures in the Knives and Tools folders.)
Your spreadsheet is awesome and your Excel skills far exceed mine. I had been creating my own spreadsheet for US height and when I saw yours I could see where I had been going wrong in making the trigonometry too difficult for myself. I have now added a simple extra to calculate the micro-adjustments needed between sides when clamping 'V' section knives to avoid the asymmetry of bevel grinds with the standard jigs. This is not the ideal solution as I need to readjust each time I turn the jig and there is a danger of forgetting! I am still experimenting with the other solutions from this forum...
I look forward to seeing the non-public updated version
Quote from: Merx27 on April 19, 2021, 11:49:28 AM
Your spreadsheet is awesome and your Excel skills far exceed mine. I had been creating my own spreadsheet for US height and when I saw yours I could see where I had been going wrong in making the trigonometry too difficult for myself. I have now added a simple extra to calculate the micro-adjustments needed between sides when clamping 'V' section knives to avoid the asymmetry of bevel grinds with the standard jigs. This is not the ideal solution as I need to readjust each time I turn the jig and there is a danger of forgetting! I am still experimenting with the other solutions from this forum...
I look forward to seeing the non-public updated version
Hello Merx27,
thank you for your feedback.
I hope that I understand what you mean... can you add a photo/screenshot to your post?
Isn't it easier to make these corrections on the SVM jig by turning the adjustable stop? I did this until I started using eccentric bushings (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3918).
I made a mark on adjustable stop, found required No. of turns to correct angle on second side, wrote 0 on the first side of blade and eg. +3/4 on the second side of blade and then tried to be 100% concentrated to flip the jig to the correct side while grinding. :)
jvh
The level of work on this calculator is way above my ability. If someone takes the time to watch your video in the link there is so much your TormekCalc does. I have multiple machines and have different grit wheels on them. Talk about making this an easy and accurate endeavor. Thank you.
Yes, I am freeloader-shaming here. The level of work deserves some donations to defray his costs and maybe put a little cash in his pocket. There are two other people that I know sell a tormek calculator for good money. This is original work, not copies of anybody's efforts. I am donating to him. Please help by doing the same. I will use paypal.
John
Quote from: John S on April 20, 2021, 01:37:23 AM
The level of work on this calculator is way above my ability. If someone takes the time to watch your video in the link there is so much your TormekCalc does. I have multiple machines and have different grit wheels on them. Talk about making this an easy and accurate endeavor. Thank you.
Yes, I am freeloader-shaming here. The level of work deserves some donations to defray his costs and maybe put a little cash in his pocket. There are two other people that I know sell a tormek calculator for good money. This is original work, not copies of anybody's efforts. I am donating to him. Please help by doing the same. I will use paypal.
John
Hello John,
thank you for your post, I really appreciate it.
I know that TC2 can look very complicated at first glance, but it should be seen as a suite of modules that are interconnected and they give much more advantages if you use them together.
That's why I created a "tutorial video" for the new BatchCalc module where is shown a little bit of TC2 capabilities. Well, it's my first video, so it looks like that... but I still believe it's useful for users to introduce advanced features. I hope to find time to make other ones, because it's really pain to do it with video skill at level 0. :) But the day I don't learn anything new is a lost day...
jvh
Quote from: jvh on April 19, 2021, 09:08:50 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 19, 2021, 11:49:28 AM
Your spreadsheet is awesome and your Excel skills far exceed mine. I had been creating my own spreadsheet for US height and when I saw yours I could see where I had been going wrong in making the trigonometry too difficult for myself. I have now added a simple extra to calculate the micro-adjustments needed between sides when clamping 'V' section knives to avoid the asymmetry of bevel grinds with the standard jigs. This is not the ideal solution as I need to readjust each time I turn the jig and there is a danger of forgetting! I am still experimenting with the other solutions from this forum...
I look forward to seeing the non-public updated version
Hello Merx27,
thank you for your feedback.
I hope that I understand what you mean... can you add a photo/screenshot to your post?
Isn't it easier to make these corrections on the SVM jig by turning the adjustable stop? I did this until I started using eccentric bushings (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3918).
I made a mark on adjustable stop, found required No. of turns to correct angle on second side, wrote 0 on the first side of blade and eg. +3/4 on the second side of blade and then tried to be 100% concentrated to flip the jig to the correct side while grinding. :)
jvh
Hi JVH,
This is just the shot of my front page of the spreadsheet inspired by yours. To calculate the different USB height needed for the inverted jig: I use an angle finder to get 'Total angle between primary bevels' and then take that angle off the 'delta k' for the and then recalculate to give me desired bevel angle with new USB height. I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.
The eccentric cam can be similarly calculated but it is still prone to human error so I am currently focusing on a jig that holds Vee section blades in alignment as this removes the need to remember to do anything between sides but not yet settled on a solution. I do not see how the shimming methods can work as they still maintain the error in angle orientation and shifting the blade parallel to the jig makes no difference at all (IMHO)
Tonight, I experimented trying to get an even bevel width around the curve of a blade and when I moved the jig towards or away from the tip of the blade, as suggested in the Tormek manual (P53 of v. 10.5) it made NO difference to the bevel width! So, I then used a laser guide-line across the stone while using the SVM45 and successfully kept an even bevel around the curve of the blade by keeping it on the laser line. This removed the black magic of how much to lift and rotate the blade.
Quote from: Merx27 on April 22, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.
Hi Merx27,
in my understanding 1 numeral equals 0.25mm, as there are six numbers on the nut and thread pitch is 1.5mm.
(but maybe I missed an important thought)
Mike
Quote from: micha on April 23, 2021, 11:25:06 AM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 22, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.
Hi Merx27,
in my understanding 1 numeral equals 0.25mm, as there are six numbers on the nut and thread pitch is 1.5mm.
(but maybe I missed an important thought)
Mike
Doh! You are absolutely right and underlines the need for me to pursue methods that minimise human error. Thank you Mike.
JVH,
I am glad that you have correctly noticed the usefulness of the tool rest SVD-110. I believe it is an underutilized tool, and even more useful in its homemade small platform versions. Sadly, these platforms to not fit in the Tormek "jig controlled sharpening" philosophy.
Ken
Quote from: Merx27 on April 22, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Hi JVH,
This is just the shot of my front page of the spreadsheet inspired by yours. To calculate the different USB height needed for the inverted jig: I use an angle finder to get 'Total angle between primary bevels' and then take that angle off the 'delta k' for the and then recalculate to give me desired bevel angle with new USB height. I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.
The eccentric cam can be similarly calculated but it is still prone to human error so I am currently focusing on a jig that holds Vee section blades in alignment as this removes the need to remember to do anything between sides but not yet settled on a solution. I do not see how the shimming methods can work as they still maintain the error in angle orientation and shifting the blade parallel to the jig makes no difference at all (IMHO)
Tonight, I experimented trying to get an even bevel width around the curve of a blade and when I moved the jig towards or away from the tip of the blade, as suggested in the Tormek manual (P53 of v. 10.5) it made NO difference to the bevel width! So, I then used a laser guide-line across the stone while using the SVM45 and successfully kept an even bevel around the curve of the blade by keeping it on the laser line. This removed the black magic of how much to lift and rotate the blade.
Hello Merx27,
by turning the eccentric sleeve,
one side of the jig is raised and the other is lowered. The axis of the top of the jig moves and this centers the blade. The aim is to obtain a symmetrical clamping before grinding and no further adjustment is required during grinding. The method I use is described below.
Shims method works the same way but from other side. Keep in mind that the work axis does not have to pass through the tool axis all the way, as this is not necessary - for correct adjustment the axis must pass through the axis of the blade and through the jig center in the point where it rests on the support.
I can confirm that the method described in the Tormek manual (P53 version 10.5) has a visible effect, at least on knives from a length of approx. 15 cm.
jvh
Quote from: jvh on April 25, 2021, 10:57:29 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 22, 2021, 09:19:13 PM
Hi JVH,
This is just the shot of my front page of the spreadsheet inspired by yours. To calculate the different USB height needed for the inverted jig: I use an angle finder to get 'Total angle between primary bevels' and then take that angle off the 'delta k' for the and then recalculate to give me desired bevel angle with new USB height. I then divide the difference in USB heights by 0.3 to give me the number of numerals to raise.
The eccentric cam can be similarly calculated but it is still prone to human error so I am currently focusing on a jig that holds Vee section blades in alignment as this removes the need to remember to do anything between sides but not yet settled on a solution. I do not see how the shimming methods can work as they still maintain the error in angle orientation and shifting the blade parallel to the jig makes no difference at all (IMHO)
Tonight, I experimented trying to get an even bevel width around the curve of a blade and when I moved the jig towards or away from the tip of the blade, as suggested in the Tormek manual (P53 of v. 10.5) it made NO difference to the bevel width! So, I then used a laser guide-line across the stone while using the SVM45 and successfully kept an even bevel around the curve of the blade by keeping it on the laser line. This removed the black magic of how much to lift and rotate the blade.
Hello Merx27,
by turning the eccentric sleeve, one side of the jig is raised and the other is lowered. The axis of the top of the jig moves and this centers the blade. The aim is to obtain a symmetrical clamping before grinding and no further adjustment is required during grinding. The method I use is described below.
Shims method works the same way but from other side. Keep in mind that the work axis does not have to pass through the tool axis all the way, as this is not necessary - for correct adjustment the axis must pass through the axis of the blade and through the jig center in the point where it rests on the support.
I can confirm that the method described in the Tormek manual (P53 version 10.5) has a visible effect, at least on knives from a length of approx. 15 cm.
jvh
Thanks again JVH, you are helping me to get my head around all of this ;D. I relooked at the eccentric bushing idea and see now that it is a good way forward so I will resin-cast a 12mm tube against the inside of another larger tube (18mm) and then experiment with a scale to aid set-up.
I still cannot see how shims work unless they are used to rotate the blade in the jig, please see my attachment.
It is likely that the Tormek manual method has a small effect but for me, all it does is change how much I lift the handle of the blade. I will stick with the guideline approach (laser or otherwise) as this suits me and gets excellent results
Thanks again for your help
Quote from: Merx27 on April 26, 2021, 10:19:23 AM
Thanks again JVH, you are helping me to get my head around all of this ;D. I relooked at the eccentric bushing idea and see now that it is a good way forward so I will resin-cast a 12mm tube against the inside of another larger tube (18mm) and then experiment with a scale to aid set-up.
I still cannot see how shims work unless they are used to rotate the blade in the jig, please see my attachment.
It is likely that the Tormek manual method has a small effect but for me, all it does is change how much I lift the handle of the blade. I will stick with the guideline approach (laser or otherwise) as this suits me and gets excellent results
Thanks again for your help
Hello Merx27,
a shim can help, but must be placed at the end of the jaw only (or have a triangle profile). An eccentric bushing is also very helpful here because the correction with shim is very rough and the bushing allows fine adjustment.
Other way is special jig. Although it looks weird, the blade is well centered. There is different angle on each side but also different protrusion length, so you get an even grind when you flip it.
See the photos for a better idea...
jvh
Quote from: jvh on April 28, 2021, 02:34:03 PM
Quote from: Merx27 on April 26, 2021, 10:19:23 AM
Thanks again JVH, you are helping me to get my head around all of this ;D. I relooked at the eccentric bushing idea and see now that it is a good way forward so I will resin-cast a 12mm tube against the inside of another larger tube (18mm) and then experiment with a scale to aid set-up.
I still cannot see how shims work unless they are used to rotate the blade in the jig, please see my attachment.
It is likely that the Tormek manual method has a small effect but for me, all it does is change how much I lift the handle of the blade. I will stick with the guideline approach (laser or otherwise) as this suits me and gets excellent results
Thanks again for your help
Hello Merx27,
a shim can help, but must be placed at the end of the jaw only (or have a triangle profile). An eccentric bushing is also very helpful here because the correction with shim is very rough and the bushing allows fine adjustment.
Other way is special jig. Although it looks weird, the blade is well centered. There is different angle on each side but also different protrusion length, so you get an even grind when you flip it.
See the photos for a better idea...
jvh
Hi JVH
I found shims very fiddley and sensitive to tiny movements, especially when the blade also tapered towards the tip. I could make them work but it took so much time to set it up. Have you a source for tapered shims, that would make like very much easier? Instead, I considering making different angle rebates in a couple of my SVM-45s but without a machine shop, this was likely to be a little uneven. I thought about using a homemade jig to hold the bottom jaw against my belt sander...
I like the look of the adjustable jig - did you make that? My fear, when considering something similar, was that the pivot between the shaft and the jaws might not be strong enough with a large knife but you have inspired me to reconsider. I'm not sure how the different protrusion lengths help but it may be that I haven't got my head fully around how you use it.
Thanks for sharing your experience, you are way ahead of me. I have received my casting resin and will get onto the eccentric bushing as soon as I finish the 5 Global knives and a food processor blade that came in today.
Quote from: Merx27 on April 28, 2021, 07:16:42 PM
Hi JVH
I found shims very fiddley and sensitive to tiny movements, especially when the blade also tapered towards the tip. I could make them work but it took so much time to set it up. Have you a source for tapered shims, that would make like very much easier? Instead, I considering making different angle rebates in a couple of my SVM-45s but without a machine shop, this was likely to be a little uneven. I thought about using a homemade jig to hold the bottom jaw against my belt sander...
Hello Merx27,
Yes, that's right - fiddly, time consuming...
I haven't any source of tapered shims. I am using a piece of cable tie as shim + double side tape if I need it.
Quote
I like the look of the adjustable jig - did you make that? My fear, when considering something similar, was that the pivot between the shaft and the jaws might not be strong enough with a large knife but you have inspired me to reconsider. I'm not sure how the different protrusion lengths help but it may be that I haven't got my head fully around how you use it.
Yes, one of the prototypes. It is robust enough for such a task, but the precise setting can also be time consuming.
I made several designs and there are different ways how to make the adjustable version. In the end, when I compared the price, versatility and speed and accuracy of the settings, I ended up again with an eccentric bushing. But I don't give up, I have some more ideas how to made a perfect jig...
jvh
Hello,
I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle. It also briefly introduces EdgeCalc - next module in the TormekCalc2 - its using and capabilities.
The bonus part focuses on verifying the results using a goniometer (laser protractor).
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG_MmPIUPss
jvh
Quote from: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
Hello,
I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle. It also briefly introduces EdgeCalc - next module in the TormekCalc2 - its using and capabilities.
The bonus part focuses on verifying the results using a goniometer (laser protractor).
Link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vG_MmPIUPss
jvh
Nice job (as always).
Probably worth pointing out (or correct me if I'm wrong), 😑 that these are scale drawings that validate the formulas, not just drawings made with numbers inserted.
Quote from: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
... [snip]
I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle.
... [snip]
jvh
I do not agree that the sharpening angle is not affected by the thickness of the blade
when the blade is clamped in the jig resting on the USB.
During the sharpening process, the tip of the blade will lower towards the stone, while the resting point of the jig remains on the USB. This will cause the jig to tilt towards the stone, changing the angle.
I described that in my publication "More math for the Tormek grinder" after CBWX34 reported that problem to me. See https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849)
Quote from: cbwx34 on April 29, 2021, 08:55:51 PM
Nice job (as always).
Probably worth pointing out (or correct me if I'm wrong), 😑 that these are scale drawings that validate the formulas, not just drawings made with numbers inserted.
Hello cbwx34,
you are right, the dimensions are "live", they are from parametric CAD, not static images. I drew 3D models of my T-8 and some jigs and use them to verify the calculated results.
jvh
Quote from: Dutchman on April 30, 2021, 10:55:23 AM
Quote from: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
... [snip]
I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle.
... [snip]
jvh
I do not agree that the sharpening angle is not affected by the thickness of the blade when the blade is clamped in the jig resting on the USB.
During the sharpening process, the tip of the blade will lower towards the stone, while the resting point of the jig remains on the USB. This will cause the jig to tilt towards the stone, changing the angle.
I described that in my publication "More math for the Tormek grinder" after CBWX34 reported that problem to me. See https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849)
Hello Dutchman,
no, this is something else. It is caused by excessive grinding. If you grind over the axis
*) the grinding angle will rise as the jig protrusion length will shorten. It is also mentioned and showed in my video
HERE (https://youtu.be/vG_MmPIUPss?t=232). But it has nothing to do with the thickness of the blade.
jvh
*) Meaning the axis of the blade in this case, as the calculations in TormekCalc2 are performed for symmetrical grinds by default.
I would tend to agree with JVH. Most of the blades we intend to sharpen are not a knife blank, and even in this case we would probably try not to grind through the axis. So whether the blade is extremely thin or thick will not matter with regard to the grind angle... as long as the blade is centered in the jig.
The only actual effect due to blade width that I can see today is the effect on the assymetry of the grind due to the assymetry of the jig.
As I don't have jvh's machinery skills, I am more thinking of drilling through the jig handle close and parallel to the axis and setting a blind nut which would allow me to correct by adding just enough offset on the long side to make sure the knife sits on the laser line on both sides. It is probably not perfect but it is the only doable thing I can think of with my skills, the excentric bushing and the like being out of my league.
Quote from: tgbto on April 30, 2021, 11:52:18 AM
As I don't have jvh's machinery skills, I am more thinking of drilling through the jig handle close and parallel to the axis and setting a blind nut which would allow me to correct by adding just enough offset on the long side to make sure the knife sits on the laser line on both sides. It is probably not perfect but it is the only doable thing I can think of with my skills, the excentric bushing and the like being out of my league.
Hello tgbto,
all you need to make an eccentric bushing is a drill, drill bits and a piece of aluminum rod. I made first pieces this way.
I hope I understand what you mean... but if the knife sits on the laser line on both sides, it does not guarantee that it is well centered, it only means that the protrusion is the same. I check the symmetrical clamping with AngleMaster as described in Reply #61.
jvh
Quote from: jvh on April 30, 2021, 11:16:45 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on April 29, 2021, 08:55:51 PM
Nice job (as always).
Probably worth pointing out (or correct me if I'm wrong), 😑 that these are scale drawings that validate the formulas, not just drawings made with numbers inserted.
Hello cbwx34,
you are right, the dimensions are "live", they are from parametric CAD, not static images. I drew 3D models of my T-8 and some jigs and use them to verify the calculated results.
jvh
Thanks. I was pretty sure, but wanted to point out the "independent verification" that a CADD drawing provides. (Sure helped me).
Quote from: jvh on April 30, 2021, 11:30:42 AM
Quote from: Dutchman on April 30, 2021, 10:55:23 AM
Quote from: jvh on April 29, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
... [snip]
I released a new video where you can find an answer to the question of whether the blade thickness affects the resulting grinding angle.
... [snip]
jvh
I do not agree that the sharpening angle is not affected by the thickness of the blade when the blade is clamped in the jig resting on the USB.
During the sharpening process, the tip of the blade will lower towards the stone, while the resting point of the jig remains on the USB. This will cause the jig to tilt towards the stone, changing the angle.
I described that in my publication "More math for the Tormek grinder" after CBWX34 reported that problem to me. See https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849)
Hello Dutchman,
no, this is something else. It is caused by excessive grinding. If you grind over the axis*) the grinding angle will rise as the jig protrusion length will shorten. It is also mentioned and showed in my video HERE (https://youtu.be/vG_MmPIUPss?t=232). But it has nothing to do with the thickness of the blade.
jvh
*) Meaning the axis of the blade in this case, as the calculations in TormekCalc2 are performed for symmetrical grinds by default.
Actually, I think you two are talking about 2 different things.
Dutchman is correct that a thick blade sitting on the stone is at a different angle than a sharpened blade. But, the calculator gives the "sharpened angle", which is what we want. So, if I sharpen the thick blade correctly, working both sides and never sharpen past the center line, I will end up with the desired angle.
jvh is correct that if I take that same blade and sharpen past the center line, (think of the extreme where I sharpen one side all the way to the other side, then flip it over), I will shorten the Projection Distance, which will change the resulting angle.
In either event, thickness does not matter in a blade that is correctly sharpened. ;)
Quote from: cbwx34 on April 30, 2021, 01:53:17 PM
Actually, I think you two are talking about 2 different things.
Dutchman is correct that a thick blade sitting on the stone is at a different angle than a sharpened blade. But, the calculator gives the "sharpened angle", which is what we want. So, if I sharpen the thick blade correctly, working both sides and never sharpen past the center line, I will end up with the desired angle.
jvh is correct that if I take that same blade and sharpen past the center line, (think of the extreme where I sharpen one side all the way to the other side, then flip it over), I will shorten the Projection Distance, which will change the resulting angle.
In either event, thickness does not matter in a blade that is correctly sharpened. ;)
Hello again,
yes, in this example the angle changes and I pointed this problem two times in my video, but it has nothing to do with the thickness of the blade.
This is related to the clamping / feeding method (and axis and protrusion length).
When a thick blade is sitting on the stone it means that there is some ungrinded material and you are above the blade axis and not at the point where you should be. The same situation is when you are under the blade axis.
A simple example - let's imagine that we mount the SVD-110 in the opposite way than usual and try to grind the chisels. We will grind chisels with different thicknesses, feeding method is shown by the arrows. As you can see the apex angle always remains the same regardless of the thickness, so how the thickness affects sharpening angle?
jvh
Hey jvh,
A quick question on upgrading from one version of TormekCalc to the next... Do you keep some kind of crude backward compatibility, so I can copy/paste the diameters and knife dimensions / angles / protocols ?
Cheers,
Nick.
Quote from: tgbto on May 03, 2021, 03:34:11 PM
Hey jvh,
A quick question on upgrading from one version of TormekCalc to the next... Do you keep some kind of crude backward compatibility, so I can copy/paste the diameters and knife dimensions / angles / protocols ?
Cheers,
Nick.
Hello tgbto,
good question. See below, I basically try not to change the structure of the tables, but sometimes it's not possible.
TormekCalc- possible for green cells D10:D13 and shadow cells D16:D22 (since v.2.01)
- not possible in Wheel table (Real diameter, Machine, Grinding angle shift) as I have added new wheels in v.2.63
BatchCalc- new module in v.2.63, no previous data
Knives + Tools- possible for both databases since v. 2.01. Just select data between column C to AD (included), copy them to clipboard (Ctrl+C) and paste them as VALUES to the new version of TC2.
BevelCalc- possible for green cells D7:D20 since v.2.40 ("Angle jig" calculation was added)
EdgeCalc- possible for green cells D9:D11 since v.2.01
Materials- not needed if no changes were made to Material table, otherwise insert rows, and copy/paste data
Jigs- possible to copy/paste data, but it can corrupt translation in ,,Notes" column.
Settings- not possible in Default values table as structure was changed
- possible for green cell in Machine table since v.2.01 - copy and paste data as VALUES into the appropriate cells in the new version of TC2
It is important that the databases can be copied without any problems, the other modules do not have much data and the upgrade should take about 10-15 minutes.
If it is not possible to copy the data at once, due to a change in structure, it is possible to copy and paste it in parts to the appropriate place in the new version.
jvh
Thank you for the quick and detailed answer!
If I can copy/paste the knives table, the upgrade is going to be fairly quick as I will just have to change the wheel diameters on the TormekCalc tab, along with the values for the KG FVB which do not match the default values. I don't know if there would be a real interest in having the most commonly used FVBs available from a drop-down list with a Custom choice, same as the wheels. But all in all it's only a matter of filling less than ten cells.
Last, for the material, the only steel I have which I cannot find in the list is Hitachi GIN-3 http://zknives.com/knives/steels/ginsanko.shtml, semis stainless 59-62RC which I have in my Korin Ginsanko Deba.
I'll be experimenting with the batchcalc for my next batch of ... 2 knives ^^
Cheers,
Nick.
Quote from: tgbto on May 03, 2021, 04:52:38 PM
If I can copy/paste the knives table, the upgrade is going to be fairly quick as I will just have to change the wheel diameters on the TormekCalc tab, along with the values for the KG FVB which do not match the default values. I don't know if there would be a real interest in having the most commonly used FVBs available from a drop-down list with a Custom choice, same as the wheels. But all in all it's only a matter of filling less than ten cells.
Hello again,
could be, can you send me these default values? (But at first I will probably add some info table with values for different FVB types.)
Quote
Last, for the material, the only steel I have which I cannot find in the list is Hitachi GIN-3 http://zknives.com/knives/steels/ginsanko.shtml, semis stainless 59-62RC which I have in my Korin Ginsanko Deba.
I have added Hitachi GIN-3 and GIN-5 steels to the material table. Thanks for noticing.
jvh
Hi !
Quote from: jvh on May 03, 2021, 11:21:39 PM
could be, can you send me these default values? (But at first I will probably add some info table with values for different FVB types.)
Sure: I have measured a default FVB distance F for my KG FVB of 27.8mm. I also set the min FVB distance to this.
I'm not too sure about the precision of the measurements because I am having a hard time precisely taking distances between elements that are not in the same plane. I have a total variable length HF-FVB of 146mm, which seems OK.
Cheers,
Nick.
Hello everyone,
new public and non-public version of
TormekCalc2 is available (v2.67).
Main News:
CompCalc [New non-public module]
Allows calculation of the grinding angle compensation if wheels with different diameters are used for grinding.
It is a problem which, as far as I know, was first described by Gilles in this post and calculated using the Polishing angle calc (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=4326.30), which is still available there. CompCalc is based on Polishing angle calc, all credit belongs to Gilles.
Although this phenomenon may not be visible on wheels with a similar diameter and small blade thicknesses, it can cause problems with thicker blades (eg. chisels) and when switching from a smaller wheel to a larger one (eg. 200 mm coarse wheel on T-4 and 250 mm fine wheel on T-8).
You can find more about this phenomenon in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_qRUvSvcLQ
BatchCalc [Non-public module]
The whole module for batch sharpening has been significantly redesigned so that new functions can be built into it.
The step generation procedure has been completely reworked. Now the grit of the wheels is also taken into account, proceeding from the coarsest to the finest. If grit is not specified (or is not a number), it is assumed to be the honing wheel that is placed at the end.
New unique functionality for grinding on wheels with different diameters has been added. It is a compensation layer that automatically calculates grinding angle corrections when moving from a smaller wheel to a larger one. There are two types of compensation, and using this feature brings unexpected grinding benefits...
You can find more information in the same video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_qRUvSvcLQ
Using and capabilities of BatchCalc module can be found in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qtyTKqQb1g
Attention: For several different reasons, I have decided that these modules will be freely available only to contributors and donors. There is a lot of work, time and know-how behind the development. If in doubt, please compare what the public version of TormekCalc2 (even the oldest) offers compared to commercially available applications. If you have further questions, you can send me a private message or e-mail message (see FAQ sheet in TormekCalc2).
Materials
Added Hitachi GIN-3 and GIN-5 steels to the material table.
Ideas for improvement are welcome as well as feedback. Please feel free to contact me if you need any further information.Hint: If you have data in Knives or Tools sheet just select all uses rows between column C to AD (included), copy them to clipboard (Ctrl+C) and paste them
as VALUES to new version of TormekCalc2.
Enjoy!
jvh
Attention!Due file size and forum restrictions (maximum individual size is 256 KB) is TormekCalc2 version 2.1+ available only on external web storage.
Download HERE (https://en.webshare.cz/#/file/LrCciLI8eP)
(WebShare.cz, click Download File and then Download slowly).
Current version 2.67
(TormekCalc2_Public_v267.zip, packed size 2 026 804 bytes, TormekCalc_Public_v267.xlsx, unpacked size 2 186 094 bytes + sample pictures in the Knives and Tools folders.)
Wow just found this and it's a game changer!
Is it possible to add data for felt wheels and recommended honing angles like knifegrinders recommend? Understand if this is only for Tormek specific products^^
Would you be interested in adding Swedish language to the Excel file? I might be able to provide this if so. Cheers!
Quote from: LarK on May 17, 2021, 09:54:18 PM
Wow just found this and it's a game changer!
Is it possible to add data for felt wheels and recommended honing angles like knifegrinders recommend? Understand if this is only for Tormek specific products^^
Would you be interested in adding Swedish language to the Excel file? I might be able to provide this if so. Cheers!
Hello LarK,
yes, you can add data for any wheel or machine. There are 3 slots for custom wheels in hidden columns, but you can also change unused wheels data specification to something else. For honing at higher angles is designed "Grinding angle shift ±Δ [°]" function, see picture.
Any translation is welcome, if you do it you will become a contributor. Please use the "Language5" column on the Languages sheet, send me a PM for help if necessary, as there are formulas in some cells.
jvh
Great 😊 I'll give it a shot, dusting off the old excel skills. Great tip btw. I'm guessing it will be possible to save the offset angle for honing for specific knives/steels.
Quote from: LarK on May 18, 2021, 05:09:32 AM
Great 😊 I'll give it a shot, dusting off the old excel skills. Great tip btw. I'm guessing it will be possible to save the offset angle for honing for specific knives/steels.
Hello,
You can save the offset angle to Notes for knives/tools and Sharpening notes for materials.
I do not plan to load these values automatically, because I consider this concept to be problematic. As you may have noticed, I don't automatically follow the suggested procedures, instead I try to verify them and find out what they really are. My experiences suggest that the correct grinding technique and more precise settings between the individual steps have a significant effect on the formation of burrs, which can be eliminated during grinding and subsequent honing at a higher angles is not necessary.
jvh
Hello,
I could give the code in VBA to read the comments. Then you could adapt that in the appropriate language.
Unfortunately, my knowledge of English is very poor
Sub KommentarzellenAuflisten()
Dim raZelle As Range
Dim wsTabelle As Worksheet
Dim loZeile As Long
Dim raBereich As Range
loZeile = 1
For Each wsTabelle In Worksheets
If wsTabelle.Name <> "TormekCalc" Then
On Error Resume Next
Set raBereich = wsTabelle.UsedRange.SpecialCells(xlCellTypeComments)
On Error GoTo 0
If Not raBereich Is Nothing Then
For Each raZelle In raBereich
With Worksheets("TormekCalc")
.Cells(loZeile, 1) = raZelle.Address
.Cells(loZeile, 2) = raZelle.Parent.Name
.Cells(loZeile, 3) = raZelle.Comment.Text
End With
loZeile = loZeile + 1
Next raZelle
End If
Set raBereich = Nothing
End If
Next wsTabelle
End Sub
There seems to be a password to download the new version.
Where can I get the code?
:)
Quote from: Fluehue on October 17, 2021, 10:40:35 AM
There seems to be a password to download the new version.
Where can I get the code?
:)
Send a message to jvh.
I did, hoping he will answer soon :)
Quote from: Fluehue on October 18, 2021, 10:26:25 AM
I did, hoping he will answer soon :)
Hang in there... worth the wait! :)
I made a quick guide for someone on what to change to use TormekCalc2 with the T-4... thought I'd add it here...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6065)
The red arrows point to the machine measurements, the blue are the ones for sharpening, and the green are the common answers used... either directly to the wheel (T USB) or to the casing (VUSB).
This is just for sharpening from the vertical position (I didn't check the other measurements).
Edit: I learned after making this post that "Machine" (where it says Machine 1) needs to be blank if you're changing the settings in the D column on the main page.
CB,
As you and I both know, my knowledge of and experience with the computer programs is limited. (I'm not being modest, only honest.)
I am curious to learn how settings (from the frame) for a T4 differ from a T7/8 with a grinding wheel worn to 200mm.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on December 28, 2021, 06:03:36 PM
CB,
As you and I both know, my knowledge of and experience with the computer programs is limited. (I'm not being modest, only honest.)
I am curious to learn how settings (from the frame) for a T4 differ from a T7/8 with a grinding wheel worn to 200mm.
Ken
The only real difference is the measurement from the center of the shaft to the top of the casing on the T-4 is smaller.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6067)
And it only matters if you set the height of the USB by measuring to the top of the casing. If you measure directly to the wheel, there is no difference.
Hello jvh!
The Excel sheet is superb to me.
What are the SWIFT banking data to send money to you?
Pietje
What is the process for purchasing TormekCalc2?
Thanks
Quote from: MartinC on February 08, 2022, 01:25:45 AM
What is the process for purchasing TormekCalc2?
Thanks
Send a PM to Forum Member jvh (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31598)
Version 3.00 has been released (NOT available as Public version)
Introduction video is at
https://youtu.be/EWMpvw2No0YMain news:
- File format change
File format was changed from *.xlsx to *.xlsm, which supports Macros and VBA programming language. Without this step, it would have been impossible to overcome the existing limitations and continue the development.
Data import feature
Ability to import data from previous versions of TC, from 2.63 onwards. Import is supported from both Full and Public versions.
Backup feature
Possibility to back up the current TormekCalc status and option to backup/export the file to the original *.xlsx format. Such file will behave as TormekCalc 2.xx series.
Note: All users of the full version should have received the new version, if not, please send me a private message or email. Some messages are being returned to me as undeliverable, probably due to more aggressive anti-spam filters.jvh
Version 3.10 has been released (available as
Public and
Full version)
Main news:
- Wheels [New sheet]
New sheet "Wheels" which contains a list of available wheels for various Tormek grinders (T-8, T-4, etc.) and possibly for other ones.
Revised Wheel table on TormekCalc sheet
Wheel selection is now done using the drop-down list in the Wheel table on the TormekCalc sheet. The wheel specifications (image, grain size and nominal diameter) are automatically loaded from the Wheels sheet. This change allows an unlimited number of suitable grinding and honing wheels for different machines to be added to the list and gives the user the ability to select the wheels used and specify their order. This change does not affect the actual diameter D values, which need to be entered/updated in the same way as in previous versions.
Automatic image loading features are not supported in Office/Excel 365. There is no known solution other than static layout (as in previous versions). Due to these limitations, Excel 365 is no longer supported as of version 3.10.
Jigs sheet update
Specifications for KJ-45 and KJ-140 have been added to the Jigs sheet (default jig diameter = 11.8 mm).
The "Order in drop-down lists" column have been added in the Jigs table which you can use to change the order in which the jigs appear in the drop-down lists. If no order is specified, the jigs are displayed in the same order as in the table.
Hardness sheet
Hardness info tables are now available in the Public version.
Data import
Data import from previous TormekCalc versions is now available in the Public version (import from 2.63 onwards).
Backup
Backup function is now available in the Public version.
And much more...
Internal changes, corrections, bug fixes, comments, etc., more in the Change history on the VB sheet.
Download link is in the first post.Enjoy!
jvh
Note: All users of the full version should have received the new version soon, if not, please send me a private message or email. Some messages are being returned to me as undeliverable, probably due to more aggressive anti-spam filters.
Hi there!
Amazing work with the Calc! I just started using it and I have some newbie questions.
- I just did a first knife with it and the calculation was off by a bit. Here is the calculation:(https://i.imgur.com/GmboDw0.png)
I have two Tormeks, Machine 6 is one with Front Vertical from Colvin. Target angle was 15dps, protrusion: 144mm.
SG-250 support height was 172.19, SJ-250 on Frontal was 97.70. And that was off - I had to raise the support ~2 rotations to match the angle, according to sharpie. I wonder if something in my calculations is visibly off. - I wonder if it good idea to "split" the Jig Projection Length into protrusion from tip of KJ-45 to the edge of the knife like this:
(https://i.imgur.com/mljLeZ2.png)
The length of the KJ jig is fixed, so it would be much easier to measure only the knife sitting depth.
If I am guessing right, the H1 on Jigs page is what I need:
(https://i.imgur.com/MglCEow.png)
But that one is protected, so I wonder if I am mistaken.
Thank you.
I may be wrong (been a while since I looked at it), but I'm pretty sure the "Front Vertical Offset" F needs to be changed to 20 (in the green box D13). The offset is different for Colvin's FVB, and selecting the Machine doesn't change this (I think I had a conversation with jvh about this).
Anyway, try that (or maybe send a message to jvh) and see if I'm right. I get a Height FUSB of around 101. (That closer?)
This is why I like using direct to wheel measurements. ;)
And you're right, that box under the Jig Specifications should be unlocked... I caught that too... you can un-protect the whole sheet and unlock it that way.
Thank you. Let me re-measure the FVB offset. I tried the 20, but it seems to ignore the value bellow minimum of 24.4. Let's see if @JVH notice this post.
Speaking of direct measurements, it got me thinking yesterday (at 2am...) https://electronoobs.com/eng_arduino_tut72.php
Would it be cool to put together an IR distance sensor, Arduino, some LCD screen and 3D print a mount that goes here:
(https://i.imgur.com/d7z5uBg.jpg)
It sounds simple, but I hope there is a simpler solution for the contactless distance sensor for the short distances. Something pre-made and battery-powered.
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 03:35:59 PM
Thank you. Let me re-measure the FVB offset. I tried the 20, but it seems to ignore the value bellow minimum of 24.4. Let's see if @JVH notice this post.
Under the settings sheet (page) change F26 to 20. That should allow the change. BTW, I'm assuming that you have the FVB pushed up against the machine.
(I sent jvh a message.) :)
No idea about the sensor.
That sensor sure sounds like a complex way to solve a simple problem :)
Quote from: tgbto on October 31, 2022, 04:34:45 PM
That sensor sure sounds like a complex way to solve a simple problem :)
Perhaps. That height measurement feels bit clumsy. There is no fixed point to measure against. I would gladly pay up for a reliable, fast and easy way to know the support height.
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 04:48:01 PM
Perhaps. That height measurement feels bit clumsy. There is no fixed point to measure against. I would gladly pay up for a reliable, fast and easy way to know the support height.
Why don't you mesure USB to stone ? It's an easy measurement to take as you basically measure to the closest point of the stone, and you don't need any intermediate measurements that might compound the error....
This one?
(https://i.imgur.com/iGODBy8.png)
I have no idea how to figure out the tangent to a stone surface.
You measure the shortest distance between the top of the USB to the stone (basically, aim an imaginary line to the center of the wheel).
I will try that. The trouble I see with it - there is a subjective part in the measurement. That shortest distance is an estimation.
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 06:50:42 PM
I will try that. The trouble I see with it - there is a subjective part in the measurement. That shortest distance is an estimation.
Pretty easy after a few tries. Some have come up with a method to help while learning, for example RickKrung used a rubber band...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4983.0;attach=6430)
... all methods are a bit subjective, but more than enough in accuracy. :)
<3 the rubber band jig. That's clever!
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 30, 2022, 10:32:45 PM
Hi there!
Amazing work with the Calc! I just started using it and I have some newbie questions.
I just did a first knife with it and the calculation was off by a bit. Here is the calculation:
I have two Tormeks, Machine 6 is one with Front Vertical from Colvin. Target angle was 15dps, protrusion: 144mm.
SG-250 support height was 172.19, SJ-250 on Frontal was 97.70. And that was off - I had to raise the support ~2 rotations to match the angle, according to sharpie. I wonder if something in my calculations is visibly off.
Hello,
cbwx34, thanks for your help, you've nailed it again. :)
As cb mentioned in post #101 (and #99) - In the Settings sheet, change the value in cell F26 to 20 (or less). This cell contains the Minimum FVB distance value, and any lower value is ignored because it is assumed to be an input error.
The problem was that the calculations were performed with a value of F = 24.4 mm.
Quote
I wonder if it good idea to "split" the Jig Projection Length into protrusion from tip of KJ-45 to the edge of the knife like this:
The length of the KJ jig is fixed, so it would be much easier to measure only the knife sitting depth.
If I am guessing right, the H1 on Jigs page is what I need:
But that one is protected, so I wonder if I am mistaken.
It's actually a great idea to measure the knife sitting depth in the KJ-45 jig and the Projection length correction X+ is designed for just that purpose.
I don't currently have the KJ-45 on hand, so I don't know the X+ length, but it will be the exact length that is
NOT highlighted in your picture. The highlighted part of the dimension "Jig projection length X" (= knife sitting depth) will be entered into the input cell.
The cell with "Projection length correction X+" is protected, but to modify it just unlock the Jigs sheet, as CB also wrote...
Quote
Would it be cool to put together an IR distance sensor, Arduino, some LCD screen and 3D print a mount that goes here:
Nice idea.
Quote from: tgbto on October 31, 2022, 04:55:26 PM
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 04:48:01 PM
Perhaps. That height measurement feels bit clumsy. There is no fixed point to measure against. I would gladly pay up for a reliable, fast and easy way to know the support height.
Why don't you mesure USB to stone ? It's an easy measurement to take as you basically measure to the closest point of the stone, and you don't need any intermediate measurements that might compound the error....
If there is a chance of a digital height reading, the USB to body measurement implementation is easier than USB to stone...
jvh
With regard to digital height reading, I think I remember from my robotics days the IR detection cone being somewhat around 20° inclusive. Which means a 50mm measurement area at a 150mm distance, and I'm not sure the detection area will be clean enough... Maybe LIDAR ?
As for the USB to stone measurement being subjective, I find it to be quite precise even without the rubber band : you just have to rotate the calipers around the USB till you barely touch the stone, and you have the shortest distance. The tiniest rotation of the microadjust nut takes it off the wheel, which is about as precise as you can go on the Tormek.
But even when going digital, my gut feeling is this area is going to be cleaner than the one directly under the USB, and what you'll get as the closest object is indeed the stone at the point closest to USB.
I like Rick's use of a marking gage as a "depth gage" to measure from the top of the support bar to the edge of the grinding wheel. (I call this measurement "Distance" in my PDF describing the kenjig.) The substantial metal rod seems less rickety than the thin flat metal extension on four way calipers. I prefer the larger footprint "gage block" approach of the kenjig, although the adjustability feature of the marking gage is formidable. (Rick, a machined rod with a larger foot would combine the best features of both. Or, perhaps a collar or spacer with an ID matching the diameter of the rod. This would eliminate the need for machining.)
I have always measured from the top of the support bar to the edge of the grinding wheel, as highlighted in yellow in the diagram. I have never thought of it was inaccurate. The flat bottom does not perfectly match the curvature of the grinding wheel; however, I can eyeball matching gaps on both sides. Given the same wheel diameter, it works on my T7 or T8 with no compensation. I have never understand any advantage for measuring to the frame.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on November 02, 2022, 04:25:23 PM
...
The substantial metal rod seems less rickety than the thin flat metal extension on four way calipers.
...
I flipped it around...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6860)
... I found doing it this way to be more accurate/consistent, than trying to use the thin extension.
I can also contribute with a tip on a jig that I use daily. Fast and easy to use. It works for all diameters of wheels that I have. Both grinding wheels and honing wheels. Easy to make yourself if you are a little handy. I have adjusted the slide gauge 0.15mm to compensate for the highest point of the wheel which is in between the legs of the "fork". A little training and then it's very quick to set or measure the USB height
That's a nice idea! More I look at this, more I want to figure out the 3D modeling/printing.
Sergei, if you go down this path, look hard at Fusion 360. It is a great tool for 3D modeling, and I understand there is a licensing which is free for non-commercial users. Some of the other 3D CAD programs I've tried don't make smooth curves and that can be problematic for some parts you would want to make.
Fusion 360 can output to a 3D printer directly, but I prefer to output the file in STL format, and then use a separate slicer tool. I use Ultimaker's Cura for that. It is a free tool.
As for 3D printers, the Creality Ender is a good product at a good price. There are other better and faster printers, but the Creality Ender seems to be a good starting printer (I have the Ender 3 v2). You can print using both PLA and ABS filament which covers most use cases.
@RichColvin! Just a person I need right now. A quick question for you: The VF constant is slightly off in the TormekCalc. I believe it is set for Vadim's VFB. I measured the distance from the center of horizontal support arm to the top of the unit is 10.14mm
(https://i.imgur.com/aXemA0C.jpg)
4.14mm from the hole edge to the top and 12mm diameter of the hole.
Is that correct? It was not the best measurement
In the Calc the constant VF for the Colvin Tools is set to 53.80 from my measurements is comes to 51.14mm
I need to re-measure everything to be sure.
Let's do a math check. I need this distance:
(https://i.imgur.com/oWeZItr.png)
In the Calc we have a HH of 41.0 (F17) and VF 56.0 (F20) the difference is 15.0mm.
I measured that value for the Colvin Tools as 10.14mm, so the VF for the Machine should be 56.0 - (15-10.14) = 51.14mm
The bar should be 12mm in diameter, so the number you are seeking should be 12/2 + 4.14 = 10.14.
I slightly modified my depth gauge
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on November 02, 2022, 08:52:35 PM
...snip...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6874)
4.14mm from the hole edge to the top and 12mm diameter of the hole.
Is that correct? It was not the best measurement
...snip...
Thought I might offer some alternative methods for making measurements, ones that I use all the time when "reverse engineering" existing parts that I want to work with and come up with reliable numbers.
First, with something like an existing hole, I like to make two measurements - to/from opposite sides of the hole to a reference surface and then average the two readings. They are almost always different, due to measurement/user error. Having and average of two measurements reduces the effects of those errors. Your photo shows step one. For clarity, I show how I measure from the Inside Dimension (ID) to the flat surface.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6876)
Measuring to the other side of the hole ID is difficult because when putting one caliper jaw on the opposite inside surface, what to you put the other jaw against? Clamp a piece of stock to the flat surface that protrudes just enough to get the "insided" caliper jaw against it.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6878)
Another way is to take advantage of the shaft being securely inserted into the hole, as in the shaft in the upper part of your photo. Using the caliper faces on the back side of the caliper head, a very reliable measurement can be made from the flat surface to the close side of the shaft. Be sure the wider flat/perpendicular face of the caliper jaw is solidly flat on the outside surface of the block.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6880)
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6882)
The more common, but less reliable method is to use the inside jaws between the shaft and a clamped bar.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6884)
For the second measurement, to the opposite side of the shaft, use the inside jaws, in the more familiar manner.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6886)
Again, average readings from measurements to each side of the hole.
I hope this is clear enough and helpful.
Rick
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on November 02, 2022, 08:52:35 PM
@RichColvin! Just a person I need right now. A quick question for you: The VF constant is slightly off in the TormekCalc. I believe it is set for Vadim's VFB. I measured the distance from the center of horizontal support arm to the top of the unit is 10.14mm
...
One thing I noticed is that the edge of the hole appears chamfered?... and it looks like you're measuring to that.
IMO, the best way to measure is with the base setup like you're going to use it... (I'd put the rod back in.)
Also, I noted that your FVB looks slightly different than the one I got early on. I asked Rich if there was a change in measurements... he said he did make some slight changes, but didn't know if the measurements changed. I get a different measurement than you (around 6.8 ), so it's possible the one used in the TormekCalc Spreadsheet might have been different. (Why it's often recommended to measure your own setup.)
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 03, 2022, 06:13:15 PM
...snip...
One thing I noticed is that the edge of the hole appears chamfered?... and it looks like you're measuring to that.
...snip...
I noticed that too and if that is how it was measured, your point is spot on. It does look like there is about the same amount of gap between the edge of the block and the other jaw, however, so I took it as he had taken the measurement OK, and was just resting the calipers for taking the photo.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6888)
If the picture does show the actual measurement being made, then the calipers are cocked as well, with the jaw back away from the edge of the block, which would add additional error. Speaks to alternative methods i mention above.
Rick
Yup. It's not the measurement photo. I just wanted to remember where it was measured and I was lazy to write it down. So I measured an take a picture in general vicinity.
It looks like, I found what was introducing the error into Calc. With measured numbers, the angle matches.
I also tried the Bosch GM220 trick for the USB height setting. It's precise, but it takes time to set the angle on that thing. How lovely would it be if Tormek engraved the ruler onto smooth USB leg.
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on November 04, 2022, 01:37:15 PM
Yup. It's not the measurement photo. I just wanted to remember where it was measured and I was lazy to write it down. So I measured an take a picture in general vicinity.
It looks like, I found what was introducing the error into Calc. With measured numbers, the angle matches.
I also tried the Bosch GM220 trick for the USB height setting. It's precise, but it takes time to set the angle on that thing. How lovely would it be if Tormek engraved the ruler onto smooth USB leg.
Glad you got it working.
Doubt we'd ever see a ruler engraved... too many variables. Someone in the Tormek group on FB found a machine with one of these hooked up...
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256803735396716.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt&_randl_shipto=US
... don't have any details. (If you join the group and search for "digital" you'll find the thread.)
Quote from: SergeiDubovsky on October 31, 2022, 04:48:01 PM
...snip...
Perhaps. That height measurement feels bit clumsy. There is no fixed point to measure against. I would gladly pay up for a reliable, fast and easy way to know the support height.
Eons ago when I was still messing with measuring the USB to case height, here (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,2962.msg25025.html#msg25025) is the best solution I had found for making consistent readings. The depth gauge foot with the angled end spaces the measurement point far away enough from the slope of the case close to the vertical support boss and the top Micro-Adjust nut maintains the calipers parallel to the USB bar.
Photo shows the depth caliper in position and the two Micro-Adjust nuts, link to the thread provides the discussion.
Costs involved were the special depth caliper and one more Micro-Adjust nut. Even so, once I figured out that measuring from the USB direct to the stone/wheel surface was faster, more accurate and universal (applies to vertical or horizontal USB with our without the FVB and to the honing wheels) I've never used the above measurement method again.
Rick
Quote from: Ken S on November 02, 2022, 04:25:23 PM
I like Rick's use of a marking gage as a "depth gage" to measure from the top of the support bar to the edge of the grinding wheel. (I call this measurement "Distance" in my PDF describing the kenjig.) The substantial metal rod seems less rickety than the thin flat metal extension on four way calipers. I prefer the larger footprint "gage block" approach of the kenjig, although the adjustability feature of the marking gage is formidable. (Rick, a machined rod with a larger foot would combine the best features of both. Or, perhaps a collar or spacer with an ID matching the diameter of the rod. This would eliminate the need for machining.)
I have always measured from the top of the support bar to the edge of the grinding wheel, as highlighted in yellow in the diagram. I have never thought of it was inaccurate. The flat bottom does not perfectly match the curvature of the grinding wheel; however, I can eyeball matching gaps on both sides. Given the same wheel diameter, it works on my T7 or T8 with no compensation. I have never understand any advantage for measuring to the frame.
Ken
Ken, I am not following the benefit what you are expressing in bolded text above. I think the 8mm (0.312) dia. rod is about perfect as a "foot" for contacting the wheel surface. Wider can lead to errors in reading if the corners contact rather than the center. The key is making sure the shaft is parallel to the line between the USB and axle, which is best shown by the rubber band, rather than eyeballing, IMO. When that is done right, it aligns the contact point to the center of the shaft. A wider food would only interfere/complicate matters, again IMO. (The oft referenced rubber band photo).
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4181.0;attach=6892)
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on November 04, 2022, 03:42:52 PM
here (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,2962.msg25025.html#msg25025) is the best solution I had found for making consistent readings. The depth gauge foot with the angled end spaces the measurement point far away enough from the slope of the case close to the vertical support boss and the top Micro-Adjust nut maintains the calipers parallel to the USB bar.
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832520112533.html
...or this... https://www.zoro.com/mitutoyo-electronic-digital-depth-gage-0-to-8-in-571-212-30/i/G0321824 if the cheap version works as good as I hope it would
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Surely the truly accurate way of determining a given bar to stone measurement would be to follow a line to the centre of the shaft? Not ' parallel ' to the rubber band as in the photo?
Quote from: Sir Amwell on November 04, 2022, 08:19:20 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Surely the truly accurate way of determining a given bar to stone measurement would be to follow a line to the centre of the shaft? Not ' parallel ' to the rubber band as in the photo?
You are correct. In this case, I wonder how "truly accurate" we need to be. In my opinion, the minute amount of error introduced with the rubber band is not significant.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on November 04, 2022, 10:45:21 PM
Quote from: Sir Amwell on November 04, 2022, 08:19:20 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Surely the truly accurate way of determining a given bar to stone measurement would be to follow a line to the centre of the shaft? Not ' parallel ' to the rubber band as in the photo?
You are correct. In this case, I wonder how "truly accurate" we need to be. In my opinion, the minute amount of error introduced with the rubber band is not significant.
Ken
In a totally literal sense, yes. But in a practical sense, no. Ran this through a CAD exercise. The difference is 0.0055" (0.140mm) for a 250mm wheel and 0.0056" (0.142mm) for a 215mm wheel (honing). That amounts to a maximum difference in angle of 0.11º at 16º . I doubt that I can set the marking gauge that precisely, so my error could easily be even greater. I'm quite a detail person, some may call me anal. It would be easy to add 0.14mm to the distance displayed by the angle app used for setting the marking gauge. I am not that anal, however.
Rick
Rick,
I think we are saying the same thing, although your more technical way seems more impressive. Just my opinion; however, I do think our computers can carry accuracy further than we actually need. this is fine, as long as we remember to keep our expectations reasonable.
Ken
We are and we agree.
Rick
Rick,
What I have not seen with bevel angle accuracy is "within tolerance" or "not within tolerance". As you know, even top quality machinist tools like Starrett are built to certain tolerances. These tolerances are often listed in their catalog. We have tolerances for flatness, parallelism, squareness, thickness, etc. Gage blocks, including angle gage blocks, are available in different precision grades (and prices!). These grades are often called shop floor, tool room, and laboratory. I don't believe an expert machinist or tool maker would ever say "perfectly" whatever. Rather, he would say "within tolerance".
Knives do not have to "mate" with other tools. Sharpness is essential; precision is not so essential. "Sharp" is not a fixed concept. A knife which seems "perfectly sharp" to a home cook making pot roast might seem unacceptably dull to a professional sushi chef.
What to do? We know basic general standards of sharpness. Smoothly cutting copy paper is a standard test, as is cutting a ripe tomato. I believe anyone sharpening for business should establish realistic personal standards. I would not expect the standard for a typical "farmer's market" rapid sharpening job to be the same as what someone paying top dollar to sharpen an expensive custom knife. Each has its own applications.
Ken
Quote from: Sir Amwell on November 04, 2022, 08:19:20 PM
Please correct me if I'm wrong. Surely the truly accurate way of determining a given bar to stone measurement would be to follow a line to the centre of the shaft? Not ' parallel ' to the rubber band as in the photo?
I use the same technique as described by @cbwx34 here (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4181.msg37136.html#msg37136). You can get around the problem you mention by measuring the distance to the stone using a point 6mm away from the caliper slider.
Speaking of angles. In the calc it gives a single value of "T USB" (tangent distance to stone surface from the support) for both front USB, regular USB and horizontal USB.
Logically, it should be the same, no matter what type of support is used. But I just want to double-check, if I am missing something.
Sure should be the same. That is the whole point and beauty. Frees one from so many variables and sources of error and significantly reduces setup/adjustment times.
Rick
I have a T-3 and a self-made FVB, so I have to measure the parameters myself.
I don´t know how much the T-4 resembles the T-3.
May I ask where I can find the description for HV,VV,HH, FVB HF etc.
Preferrably a drawing. There is so much information here... Found the drawing myself.
BTW, I downloaded V2.01 and it works great on Libreoffice 7.5.
Thanks,
-Helmut
I'm inept at Information technology.
So is there any way to get Tormekcalc on an iPad and be able to use it effectively?
I've tried to in the past and just end up with a whole load of files that are virtually impossible to use.
Any tips on this would be really appreciated.
Quote from: Sir Amwell on March 12, 2023, 01:30:43 AMI'm inept at Information technology.
So is there any way to get Tormekcalc on an iPad and be able to use it effectively?
I've tried to in the past and just end up with a whole load of files that are virtually impossible to use.
Any tips on this would be really appreciated.
I got it to work on an iPad. I installed Excel, and logged in with a Microsoft acct. Go thru the prompts that try and get you to try the paid version (you don't need it.) I had TormekCalc saved in the Files app on the iPad, so just clicked on that in Excel, navigated to the TormekCalc file, (it's named TormekCalc...with an xlsm or xlsx ending), (I'm assuming you have it "unzipped" since you said you had several files already), and it opens right up. You're setup may be a little different, so not sure if this will work for you.
You'll get an error that Excel can't run VBA macros, but this only affects the Backup and Import functions, according to jvh. It also won't load the wheel pictures on the TormekCalc tab, but that doesn't matter. Other than that, everything else seems to work without any issues.
Hope that helps.
Quote from: aquataur on March 11, 2023, 08:22:56 PMI have a T-3 and a self-made FVB, so I have to measure the parameters myself.
I don´t know how much the T-4 resembles the T-3.
May I ask where I can find the description for HV,VV,HH, FVB HF etc.
Preferrably a drawing. There is so much information here... Found the drawing myself.
BTW, I downloaded V2.01 and it works great on Libreoffice 7.5.
Thanks,
-Helmut
If you measure directly to the wheel to set the USB, (the T USB measurement in TormekCalc), you don't need to measure any parameters. (You can also use this measurement to verify your parameter measurements, if you go that route.)
I would think the T-3 measurements should be close to the T-4... I think their biggest change was replacing the plastic with zinc. (Of course your FVB measurements will probably be different.)
for the record: my T-3 measurements. They are
a little different than common T-4 settings, but there seems to be some spread anyway...
however, this fits nicely into the specs:
Quote from: jvh on June 25, 2020, 10:20:19 AMCurrent T-4 constants ranges are (including your measurements):
HV 49,0-51,1
VV 19,5-20,0
HH 29,0
VH 66,0-67,0
my FVB parameters are of no concern, being proprietory.
Having that all said (and set), I find that what the program does is waaaayyyy over my head.
Until further demands arise, I will be content with Dutchman´s or Perra´s tables.
As a result, the only additional gadget needed is a working distance measurement like the T-Cube.
This is an insight, and thus an advance.
For the environment needed to run TormekCalc:
Version 2.01 runs on Libreoffice 7.5, but not if you store the file in its native format (.ods).
Current version 3.1 does
not run. It gets the links twisted.
But it ran enough tho see that I can survive without. (not trying to be ironic.)
Cudos however for the program and thanks for generously giving it.
Quote from: aquataur on March 12, 2023, 10:25:31 AM...
Version 2.01 runs on Libreoffice 7.5, but not if you store the file in its native format (.ods).
Current version 3.1 does not run. It gets the links twisted.
...
3.1 is the version I ran in Excel on the iPad.
Quote from: aquataur on March 12, 2023, 10:25:31 AMfor the record: my T-3 measurements. They are a little different than common T-4 settings, but there seems to be some spread anyway...
however, this fits nicely into the specs:
Quote from: jvh on June 25, 2020, 10:20:19 AMCurrent T-4 constants ranges are (including your measurements):
HV 49,0-51,1
VV 19,5-20,0
HH 29,0
VH 66,0-67,0
...
I suspected they'd be close.
Quote from: aquataur on March 12, 2023, 10:25:31 AM...
Having that all said (and set), I find that what the program does is waaaayyyy over my head.
Until further demands arise, I will be content with Dutchman´s or Perra´s tables.
...
It is nice to have options. I did post earlier (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4181.msg34667.html#msg34667), that you can "get started" in TormekCalc with just a minimum of settings...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;attach=6065)
... and grow from there. Also, TormekCalc has the ability to set for other tools, (which might answer your question in the other thread (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4885.msg37903.html#msg37903)).
I understand that you can use the program in a bare bone fashion. But as I said - it does not run on my PC. So I have to resort to simpler programs.
Actually, I would be quite content with Dutchman´s tables, but as he said himself, they won´t work with the new jigs. Perra´s program´s tables do work for knives, but what I want to be cleared is what I addressed in the thread you mention. That is particularly for using Herman´s jig and chisels.
I am quite positive that it works by changing that parameter.
Quote from: aquataur on March 12, 2023, 08:59:00 PMI understand that you can use the program in a bare bone fashion. But as I said - it does not run on my PC. So I have to resort to simpler programs.
Actually, I would be quite content with Dutchman´s tables, but as he said himself, they won´t work with the new jigs. Perra´s program´s tables do work for knives, but what I want to be cleared is what I addressed in the thread you mention. That is particularly for using Herman´s jig and chisels.
I am quite positive that it works by changing that parameter.
I guess I misunderstood... I thought "waaaayyyy over my head" meant something else, and that you were able to run it in LibreOffice.
You are correct about the other... if you look under the "Jigs" tab in TormekCalc (at least in 3.1), it gives the Jig Diameter and Projection Length correction for some of the jigs. You also might find this thread of interest: https://forum.tormek.com/index.php/topic,4971
Good Day to All. I am new to Tormek and the forum. Please show me where I can purchase the TormekCalc3 calculator.
Thanks,
Brad
Quote from: BADBRAD on April 07, 2023, 02:43:38 PMGood Day to All. I am new to Tormek and the forum. Please show me where I can purchase the TormekCalc3 calculator.
Thanks,
Brad
Send a PM (personal message) to jvh (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=profile;u=31598)
Hello
I am interested in your grinding angle calculation program.
I am basically computer illiterate.
Is there an application instruction available?
I would like password please.
It there is any fee involved to cover your time?
If so, I will gladly pay.
Thank you
I have been using the Knife Grinder program will good success, but it is no longer available or supported.
Quote from: RichColvin on November 02, 2022, 08:13:36 PMSergei, if you go down this path, look hard at Fusion 360. It is a great tool for 3D modeling, and I understand there is a licensing which is free for non-commercial users. Some of the other 3D CAD programs I've tried don't make smooth curves and that can be problematic for some parts you would want to make.
Fusion 360 can output to a 3D printer directly, but I prefer to output the file in STL format, and then use a separate slicer tool. I use Ultimaker's Cura for that. It is a free tool.
As for 3D printers, the Creality Ender is a good product at a good price. There are other better and faster printers, but the Creality Ender seems to be a good starting printer (I have the Ender 3 v2). You can print using both PLA and ABS filament which covers most use cases.
I went that path...
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3o7btNhMBytxAM6YBa/giphy.gif)
11 month and several printers later. I do know how to model and print now :) Mods incoming. But first I need to check if there is a CAD for the Tormek. I will post in a different topic.
Hi, I'm trying to download the amazing calc but requires password, and i've been trying to send a pm but there must be some failure in the forum, i tried with 3 navigators and the same result. Is there any way to get it?.
Thanks and happy new year.
Quote from: elchamaco on January 04, 2024, 04:11:12 PMHi, I'm trying to download the amazing calc but requires password, and i've been trying to send a pm but there must be some failure in the forum, i tried with 3 navigators and the same result. Is there any way to get it?.
Thanks and happy new year.
I was able to send a PM, so I let him know.
I don't know what problem i have, but i can´t send pm, give me error. I tried doing it with de cellphone and the
same.
So i write here. Thank jvh for the calculator and the instructions they're very clear. I hope to be able to use it in the simple way you describe before going deeper. Great and marvellous work.
Here also one that is not able to send a PM. I really would like to have the password! Greetings you all!
Quote from: Geitekaas on January 16, 2024, 11:14:22 PMHere also one that is not able to send a PM. I really would like to have the password! Greetings you all!
Thanks man! I just can't send anything:-)
I really don't understand why a password would be needed.
What needs to be protected?
I have published the basis of this technique to offer help. Does that spreadsheet have other intentions?
I am also not able to sent a PM to Jan. Maybe caused by (my) newbie status.
Can you please sent it to me?
Thanks & regards,
Marco
Hi Jan,
Thanks for the download password and the step by step description. Much appreciated!
I will start using the sheet and will share my findings/questions with you later on.
Best regards,
Marco
Can't see the PM option to message jvh for a password - am I missing something or do I have to use another route?
Thanks
Click at the name of the person.
A window will open and you will find "Send PM"
I think new members are not being allowed to send PMs.... :-\
I'm at Newbie status and can send PMs.
It seems to be dependent on a minimum number of posts by the sender.
It would be helpful for new members to know that limit.
I had never tried sending PMs earlier.
Regarding PMs, the only restriction we have is that guests are not allowed to send them. But there was seemingly a bug in the anti-spam mod we use which prevented newly registered users from sending PMs. I have updated the mod to the latest version and tested making a new account and sent a PM directly after. It worked fine. So can you try to send a PM again to verify that it works?
Tormek admin
All working now and have the TormekCalc3 download password from jvh.
Thanks all for your help and advice.
Mike
this is great...hope to improve with such tools. Thanks
Hello,
I would like to learn how to use this program.
I clicked on the link but the language was Czech to me😁
Hello, I started using the program. Many thanks to its author. A question arose. What are the numbers (Variable length HF - Frontal vertical base [mm]
Constant VF - Frontal vertical base [mm])
must be installed when using Tormek MB-102 as an FVB?
Hello !
Unlike the original FVB, the MB-102 does not have a solid block that will rest against the casing. So "constants" now vary.
If you want to use the calculator, I'd advise for measuring directly the Top-of-USB-to-wheel distance. It's a more direct measurement that removes intermediate measurements (and measurement errors) anyway.
I also find it easier to measure, as you don't have to aim for a particular place on the casing. Just use the left side of both your calipers' jaws.
Thanks for the reply.The MB-102 can also have a fixed position that can be used as a base. For example, by pressing the bottom of the USB into the case. As for the direct measurement from the USB to the wheel, I do not want to use this solution, since there are felt and leather circles and the measurement will be incorrect, and the measuring device spoils over the abrasive wheel. I was hoping that someone had already taken these measurements and was using them in a calculator.
Quote from: Boxer on September 02, 2024, 04:29:22 PMHello, I started using the program. Many thanks to its author. A question arose. What are the numbers (Variable length HF - Frontal vertical base [mm]
Constant VF - Frontal vertical base [mm])
must be installed when using Tormek MB-102 as an FVB?
Quote from: Boxer on September 02, 2024, 05:20:33 PMThanks for the reply.The MB-102 can also have a fixed position that can be used as a base. For example, by pressing the bottom of the USB into the case.
...
I have a Calcapp calculator available using the MB-102...
https://connect.calcapp.net/?app=avoit9
... using the same idea. I used a HD (HF) of 105mm for the T-4 133mm for the T-8 and VD (VF) of 38mm for the T-4 and 50mm for the T-8. I measure to the top of the MB-102 to set the USB height. (If you look in the Calcapp app there's some instructions a few 'pages' in on how I use it.)
Let me know if the measurements work for you in TormekCalc.
Thank you for your support. For further verification, I still need FVB (body thickness) and F (frontal vertical base offset)
Quote from: Boxer on September 02, 2024, 05:20:33 PMThanks for the reply.The MB-102 can also have a fixed position that can be used as a base. For example, by pressing the bottom of the USB into the case. As for the direct measurement from the USB to the wheel, I do not want to use this solution, since there are felt and leather circles and the measurement will be incorrect, and the measuring device spoils over the abrasive wheel. I was hoping that someone had already taken these measurements and was using them in a calculator.
Just to make sure : You still need to measure the diameter of the felt and leather wheels, with the same issues you refer to, right ?
Quote from: tgbto on September 03, 2024, 11:41:52 AMJust to make sure : You still need to measure the diameter of the felt and leather wheels, with the same issues you refer to, right ?
Yes, it needs to be done.