Hi! I'm interested about this Tormek which I cannot find any more information about. Type plate says for the model: PROFFG-250 (although it could be also PROFFS-250, there's a bird poo on the label image i have).
It's also interesting since there is more mounting points for tool support than I've seen before.
Just by pictures it seems all good but before I put down the cash next weekend I'd like to know if there is some information about this unit :)
Thanks!
Welcome Ilmarihh.
You should email Tormek support immediately. (support@tormek.se) Be sure to start the title of your email with URGENT., as this is time sensitive. (Support is dedicated, but not heavily staffed.)
Please keep us posted. I don't think any of us has seen this model before.
Ken
Ok, I'll resend my email to support with this notice! :)
Excellent!
Please post what they say. It would be interesting to know a little bit about this seemingly obscure model.
I received a CC to the email I sent to support this morning. I prefer to let Ilmarihh post the results first. Support has done an outstanding job?
Ken
I have the same model, great machine. Quoted the model number to support who did not have it listed! The inline mounting points are great feature, I remove the original polish wheel and replaced with leather. I am from Perth West Australia, sharpening knives and scissors is my job full time.
Occasionally I send a screen shot of a topic to Tormek support. In this case, I knew that time was critical. I know support wears many hats with Tormek (English idiom meaning has many other responsibilities). Support really delivered. Here are their replies:
"Hi Ilmari.
The Proffs 250 is a predecessor to the newer PR-250, that eventually ended up in the Tormek S-4000 line.
This is a wider S-2000 that was intended for the food market ex butcher, chefs and so.
Most parts are the same today. There can be some minor modification needed but it is nothing we can´t help you with.
What I do not know is if the main shaft is the full length PR-250 or the shorter model from the SAB.
I need a better picture of the whole machine to be able to answer you. But you should be able to use the 250 line of stone and diamond wheels.
I guess the main shaft needs an extra washer if a new stone is going to be used. I don't know the condition of the drive wheel or the honing wheel.
I guess it is the aluminium oxide wheel on that machine. They often need a refreshing with sandpaper or emery cloth to soften up the surface.
Besides that the honing wheel is similar to the wheel we use today on our T-2.
This is a very rare machine, and there is not much info about it on the net, most is from my head.=)
I hope this helped."
"Hi I was on the forum a saw another picture.
This is the wide PR-250 model. I hope the machine comes with universal support because we do no longer have that model as a spare."
Ilmari, I am happy for you.You have discovered a rare and fascinating vintage Tormek. You also have both Tormek Support and Brinky, an experienced user who uses the same model regularly. If, by chance, you do not have the support bar, I think we can help. Several of us have reconfigured the BGM-100 in various ways. Also, Several members have had custom support bars made by local machinists/welders. And, you may be able to find an original part.
Please keep us posted.
Ken
ps to Brinky: Over the years I have read interesting woodworking posts by "Derek from Perth"
(Derek Cohen). Do you happen to know him? If so, would you please convey my compliments on his well done reviews.
Just to add, the US support legs are wider than the normal US-105 3"against 4.5/8", the new 430 US support will not fit this machine, another would have to made to suit. All latest parts fit, this machine runs a bit cooler than the 4000 model which is fully enclosed. Hope this helps. Ian
Ilmari,
I have an idea for a support bar for you as an alternative to having one made from scratch by a local welder. The later 4000 models used a special US-400 support bar, the US meaning Universal Support.
The US-400 had a longer bar, which also extended on both ends. It has the special threads for the Microadjust. The two arms are the same distance apart as the present US-105 (and US-103 for the T4).
Very soon, an improved version of the US-400 will be available. The difference is that the two vertical legs of the US-1430 are longer. This allows it to work with cleavers. The longer length should work better with your longer Tormek. It is all stainless steel. It has the Acme threads for the microadjust. The only thing needed to adapt it to your Tormek would be sawingoff or "unwelding" the unthreaded leg and "rewelding " the leg to fit your distance apart.
This would give you the correct longer length, threaded for the Microadjust. The only cost above the US-1430 would be welding the one leg.
I will post when I know the price of the US-1430. Stay tuned.
Ken
Thanks! Sorry for not updating.
I do not yet have this beauty. Seller (whos late husbad had this) taught it was only few years old and is asking quite high price. Now she replied to me that she might give it to her neighbour and not arrange it to me. So, I need to promise high enough price before seeing this or knowing if it runs or not. Let's see how this goes. I'm trying to get it since I feel like I'm already grown into it ;D If I'm successful you'll get good pictures and more info about this machine :)
EDIT: I managed agree that I'll get a call from the seller later this evening to confirm it works. She hasn't tried it yet before. If it works it I will buy it tomorrow.
Thanks for your support and knowledge! :)
Ilmari,
As much as I think the Tormek you found is a rare and interesting Tormek, from a practical standpoint, you should compare it with a new T8 or T4. assuming you would be purchasing it to use rather than as a collector's item, the cost should be substantially less than the cost of a new unit, which comes with Tormek's ironclad seven year warranty and all the latest improvements.
Assuming the vintage Tormek does not come with the TT-50 truing tool, add another $100 US to the cost. You will probably end up with another $100 in a custom support bar. Add another hundred (almost) for a leather honing wheel. A new T8 comes with all of these included, as well as the SE-77 square edge jig.
From what you say, I think the seller has an unrealistic evaluation of its value. With the latest information, I think you would do better to pyrchase a new Tormek.
Ken
ps The successor to this model was already out of production when I started in 2009. I think the lady's memory of just a "few" years may be mistaken.
Yes, true. I'd love to find something old which still works flawlessly. I have made my calculations how much I need to possibly spend on accessories. Still I've made my mind that if it works and I get it for 100€ + something extra for shipping/carrying then I'm happy to buy it.
T-8 would really be overkill for my current use and that T-4 bushcraft would be (or have been) my first choice. This kind of design and customer support is just too rate these days where you can get info, help and spare parts for old devices.
Well, I'm still waiting for that message to confirm it's a running unit...
Ilmari,
Almost all of the Tormek jigs will fit your vintage machine. The only exceptions are the very few jigs which require attachment into the sleeves. They also work with the T4, in the event that you end up with both.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Ok, I have it :) It is in really good condition. The rubber wheel which turns the axle and rubber honing wheel are not perfectly round but that's not too bad.
Stone was surprisingly straight and I did some grinding with sharpening stone to clean it up a little.
I made a quick universal support from 12mm axle (4,95€) and some 12mm threaded I had. I think it came out good enough to get some jigs and start sharpening!
Thanks for your help and I'm happy that I got this oldie. It was worth it!
Here you can find some pictures that I took today:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bhFRnRVogIt6-ad28ZAKIbw6LJCX_0Mm
Ilmari
Quote from: ilmarihh on August 24, 2019, 06:18:11 PM
...snip...
Here you can find some pictures that I took today:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=17gq53eoct4xFAea20XuPy2trygjup0FQ
Your photos may not be viewable to many. They are posted on Google Drive, or at least I had to log into there and then I couldn't view them. I had to "request access", so I am waiting for that to clear. Many, who do not have a GD account may not be able to see them at all.
Rick
Hi Rick,
Thanks for noticing me. It should work now? At least I can view them without signing in and in incognito mode. I've been using Drive for many years and sometimes this happens that sharing permissions are not correct even if I think they are. I updated sharing permissions again and
Here is the link again: https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1bhFRnRVogIt6-ad28ZAKIbw6LJCX_0Mm
I hope it works.
Ilmari
Congrats Ilmari to your acquisition! It really unique old model in very good condition. :)
Jan
I am excited for you, Ilmari! Except for Brinky, I don't think any of us were even aware that this model existed.
When I was younger, I used to collect things. Now, approaching seventy and eventual much smaller senior quarters, I find that joy in seeing and learning about things. Thank you for sharing your photographs of your Tormek.
I hope you will continue posting and sharing your Tormek journey.
Ken
Yes, this is identical to mine. the wheel is original so has not had much use. I purchase mine from ebay(the machine was in Sydney) for the wheel as price for whole machine was the same as a new wheel. Looking around the web I get the idea this model would have come in the late 80's early 90's as I also have the 4000 model which was purchased new by me in 1998, I prefer this one to the 4000 for US arrangement!
Ken, I have not met Derek, I am not a woodworker by any means, my main interest is knives and steels. Butchering was my trade, I worked in the meat industry for many years.
Brinky
Interesting, Brinky. Too often we tend to think of knife sharpening in restaurant terms, although "the heavy lifting" has always been done by butchers. Are you familiar with the work of Vadim Krischuk of Knife Grinders in Sydney? (Yes, I realize Sydney is on the other side of the continent.) Vadim, called "Wootz" on this forum, in my opinion, is the world leader in advancing knife sharpening. He combines scientific research with being a working sharpener. Much of his field testing has been with meat packing plants.
Ken
Hi Ken, Yes am aware of Vadims Excellent research work and website and have purchased some product. Many meat industry workers have understood what happens on the actual knife edge and maintain the edge with a steel, tho not commercial steels as few are suitable. Many make their own steels from rat tail files as you can adjust the fineness or coarseness to suit. When slaughtering mutton the hide contains sand and other things which dull a knife quickly, the need to restore the edge quickly is done with a coarser steel, finer steels are used in boning rooms etc. There are many variables with knife use.
I am age challenged! My initial grinding experience was on the metre diameter wet sandstones, slow but good.
Having a close look from Vadims website and research is excellent.
I have been meaning to reply for sometime. Regards Brinky
Brinky, I am pleased that you are posting. The challenge of age brings with it the experience of age and our varied life experiences. One side effect of our maturing is an inner need to mentor younger coworkers, just as "the old timers" mentored us and helped us in our trades. With the forum, we can all absorb some of the wisdom of many life experiences.
I have never used a one meter diameter grinding wheel. I imagine trying to keep a grinding wheel of that size trued would be quite a project! One would quickly learn the importance of wheel circumference in measuring grinding Surface Feet per Minute.
You have certainly experienced the working end of Vadim's (Knife Grinders) research on edge sharpness and retention. Both the researcher and the worker are vital to our learning process. Vadim's BESS measurements provide repeatable scientific documentation. You don't need measurements; your body quickly tells you when your knife is dull.
In constant use, how long would a knife typically last for you before it was no longer usable? Did each individual sharpen his own knives?
I hope you will continue posting; we have much to learn from you.
Ken
Really nice Tormek. Congratulations.
Ken, Sorry late reply. A knife in constant use in a boning room for instance, would be a daily sharpen if you have not hit a chain mail glove or such. A worker would normally carry two knives and steel which normally gets them through the day. For sharpening we usually look for thinness behind the edge to stop the wedging effect which causes drag, a knife will shave but still drag if to thick behind the edge. The sharpness is not determined so much by the grit of the stone as the last thing to touch edge determines sharpness, in our case it is the steel which determines sharpness, as such the knife needs to be able to shave after steeling. Workers would probably make three thousand cuts a day, steeling is vital to maintaining an edge throughout the day, a good steel is treasured.
As an example: Using a norton india fine bench stone to finish edge, and steeling. Using a victorinox six inch curved boning knife we could easily bone twenty beef bodies daily, or one hundred and twenty sheep which was a normal days work.Understanding steeling is very difficult to teach, there are many misunderstanding about their use which can only be gained with experience. I have not worked in the industry for twenty years and know that much has changed. Brinky
Quote from: brinky on October 14, 2019, 02:41:06 PM
Ken, Sorry late reply. A knife in constant use in a boning room for instance, would be a daily sharpen if you have not hit a chain mail glove or such. A worker would normally carry two knives and steel which normally gets them through the day. For sharpening we usually look for thinness behind the edge to stop the wedging effect which causes drag, a knife will shave but still drag if to thick behind the edge. The sharpness is not determined so much by the grit of the stone as the last thing to touch edge determines sharpness, in our case it is the steel which determines sharpness, as such the knife needs to be able to shave after steeling. Workers would probably make three thousand cuts a day, steeling is vital to maintaining an edge throughout the day, a good steel is treasured.
As an example: Using a norton india fine bench stone to finish edge, and steeling. Using a victorinox six inch curved boning knife we could easily bone twenty beef bodies daily, or one hundred and twenty sheep which was a normal days work.Understanding steeling is very difficult to teach, there are many misunderstanding about their use which can only be gained with experience. I have not worked in the industry for twenty years and know that much has changed. Brinky
While my personal usage does not come close to this level I make it a point to steel any blade I am using before I start cutting with a smooth steel. I am sold on how it maintains an edge. After much use I will use a steel that has very fine grooves. I find that this routine adds greatly to the time needed between sharpening. I also train each of my customers on how to properly use a steel. Many admit that they don't bother which is a little disheartening.