Looking to get my first tormek system. Not sure about the high prices yet though, lol. Do you guys (and gals) know where to get a used machine at a good price and in good condition?
Nick, out of respect for our sponsoring company, Tormek, I really do not want this forum to become a central clearing house for finding used Tormeks.
Frankly, the market for used Tormeks, jigs and accessories has, in my opinion, generally has been overpriced when compared to new. I am not an employee of Tormek. My advice for new Tormek users is to purchase the security of Tormek's ironclad seven year warranty. Do not complicate the learning curve with possible problems associated with used equipment.
If this topic does not grow, I will leave it posted. If that becomes problematic, I will remove it.
Nick, I hope you will continue to be part of the forum. When shopping for a Tormek, learn the correct price for a new unit. You should be able to find a new Tormek at list price and free shipping. Be leery of "free shipping" with overinflated online prices. If your budget is tight, do not load up on extra grinding wheels or jigs that "you might use".
Ken, Forum Moderator
I get it, thanks. I thought since I sharpen a lot of the things that the jigs in the hand tool kit have, I would get that. Figuring the t8 would be best, then I can't really see the $900ish of the t8 and kit. Would the t4 work for that, I have a pretty good amount of tools.
Nick,
Another thought is is invest in the jigs and use the BGM-100 adapter for your bench grinder. Then, you can upgrade to a T8 when you get a bonus at work!
Rich
Great, haven't even seen this tool. Could I actually use it to sharpen things, of should I also buy sharpening stones to finish them.
A T4, either the regular or Bushcraft model, would serve you very well. I have one, and like it. My preference would be to purchase a T4 and start out with only the few jigs you actually need frequently. I have never been a fan of the kits; they always seem to include a jig like the axe jig, which I will never use. If you sharpen woodworking tools, the square edge jig will go far. If you do knives, the regular knife jig will cover most knives. You can always add more as your needs and budget dictate. The SG which comes with the Tormek is the only wheel you really need.
Ken
Another thought is is invest in the jigs and use the BGM-100 adapter for your bench grinder A main selling point of the Tormek is its low speed not over heating aspect. The use of his bench grinder brings those dangers into play.
My first Tormek purchase would be the Tormek itself. With the Bushcraft T4, you can use the included knife jig to sharpen almost all of your knives, all but thin long knives. Chef's knives are no problem with the regular jig.
If this is beyond your immediate budget, save until it is reasonable.
Ken
Thanks for the replies, are there any drawbacks to the t-4? I think I have seen somewhere that because of the motor downgrade, you can only sharpen things for a shortened amount of time. Is this right?
Good question. The alleged motor restriction was due to overheating with the T3. The T3's all plastic housing retained the heat, sometimes causing the housing to melt. The problem was not the motor itself.
Tormek corrected the situation with the redesigned T4. The formerly plastic top of the housing with the machined cast zinc top. The zinc top acts as a radiator and eliminates the overheating problem. The zinc machining also makes the alignment much more precise. Tormek later incorporated this same zinc housing design into the T8.
Theoretically the T4 motor is "fifty percent duty". From a practical viewpoint, the operator will need a rest long before the T4. Incidentally, I had a very direct conversation about the T4 and its motor with a Tormek rep and a rep from Tormek's US importer. I asked them point blank what would happen if a T4 owner burned out the motor six and a half years into the seven year warranty. The point blank answer was that Tormek would send me a postage paid shipping label; Tormek would do whatever was necessary to restore the Tormek; and, it would be promptly returned to me. After that I have had no concern about my T4 and its motor.
Ken
Thanks for the in-depth responses Ken, they help a lot. Last few questions lol, I use a lot of chisels and plane irons for my woodworking, could I use the side of the normal tormek stone to flatten them or will it ruin it? Also, since I need the edge to be very sharp, should I buy the Japanese water stone or is it not a big difference. Then, I see the kitchen version of the tormek, I think the t-2, has a small diamond stone, would that fit. And should I go normal stone, jap stone or diamond for best results?
Good questions, Nick, which deserve honest answers. I originally purchased my Tormek to sharpen chisels and plane blades. They are still my favorite tools to sharpen.
I flatten my chisel backs differently than the orthodox Tormek technique. I start with a fine grit waterstone, diamond stone or glass and sandpaper. Rub the back on the flat area. If you see the abrasive rubbing in the middle of the back (and not the ends), you have a "belly". If this chisel with a belly is new, I suggest returning it. A belly is a lot of work to remove. I flattened a nice old Buck chisel with a belly once. The chisel has a nice feel in my hand.
I do rough flattening with the SG grinding wheel graded coarse. I freehand this by grinding the middle of the blade along the edge of the grinding wheel. You can check progress by rubbing sgainst the flat stone. I just try for rough, approximate flatness with the Tormek. I do final flattening and polishing with flat stones or abrasives.
Most new chisels have a concave back, the opposite of a belly. With them, all you need to do is flatten enough to make both ends coplaner and polished.
The ideal solution is to use premium chisels like Lie-Nielsen or Veritas which leave the factory flat.
The ideal number of chisels is the smallest number which will do what you need. (Fewer edges to maintain)
For plane blade backs, do an online search for "David Charlesworth ruler trick".
Steel for chisels and plane blades is usually high carbon or A2. These fall within the range of the SG. Keep it graded coarse initially. When you switch to the fine grading, make the last few passes with very light pressure. Learn to use the leather honng wheel. Usinng the chisel still in the jig and resetting the Anglemaster for the bevel and a flat polishing stone to remove the burr from the back will get you up to speed quickly.
You don't need diamond or Japanese wheels for these tools. The T4 has plenty of powerfor this work.
Keep thinking!
Ken
Thanks very much, you have sold me on buying a new t4 instead of an old t8. Thanks for all the time you put in your answers. I hope to be back soon with more questions once I get the t4. :D thanks
Nick,
Enjoy your new T4 and continue to be an active poster!
Ken
Nick,
One more thing: if you later add a T8 to your arsenal, the same jigs work on both.
Good luck. You will be glad you made the leap.
Kind regards,
Rich
if you later add a T8 to your arsenal, the same jigs work on both. If you do this, you should have bought the T8 in the first place. You can use less of more but you cannot make more of less.
While I agree that a company sponsored website is not the place to buy and sell second hand machines, I am sure that Tormek make much more in consumables and jigs from machines in use, than they do from machines in cupboards. ;)
Jeff,
More is better, if we need more. With a Tormek, very few of us need more.
Twisted Trees,
I agree that Tormek makes more revenue from jigs and accessories than on basic units. Personally, I don't care if members, new or old, use new or veteran Tormeks. I know there are forum members with valuable experience with purchasing and using older Tormeks. I certainly have no problem discussing how to use or repair older Tormeks on the forum. A search of the frequent posters on the forum will quickly reveal good candidates for expertise in purchasing used units. I have no problem with discussing this via PM. I just don't want the Tormek forum to become a swap meet to avoid dealing with Tormek's authorized dealers.
Ken
There are no bad choices with Tormek. There are, however, choices which are a better fit for an individual's requirements and budgetary restrictions.A skilled Tormeker will produce sharp edges with whatever Tormek is available, whether it is a battle hardened ShoerGrind, A T4 or a new T8.
Jeff Farris wrote an excellent blog article comparing the pros and cons of buying new vs used. Jeff wrote the article years ago, but it is as applicable now as it was then. Jeff was the primary US Tormek dealer for many years. Most of the SuperGrinds owned by forum members and also those for sale were probably originally sold be Jeff. Many of them may have even been his demo units over the years.
Jeff expressed concern that he felt the used Tormek market was overpriced compared to the new market. Jeff was also the US Tormek agent, who did most of the warranty repairs. Jeff certainly what Tormek repairs could cost in the days before stainless steel shafts and improved metal finishes.When the potential costs of needed repair and upgrade parts are added to the base cost, the saving becomes debatable.
Fortunate is the beginner who is blessed with an experienced mentor and patience to find a good used Tormek. I follow the used Tormek market on a regular basis. I consider the used prices of Tormeks almost all overpriced compared to the cost of a new Tormek. With a new Tormek, one gets both rigorous factory inspection and an ironclad seven year guarantee. I feel the security of factory inspection and the warranty offer the best value for a beginner. Jeff expressed the same thought in his blog article.
Ken