:-\
Not happy
I have known for a long time that I was going to have problems with this tool, but never did I realize quite how spectacular it would be!
Shaft was rusted in place... no thought of even removing it, had tried a number of times previously with no luck.
Then I happened upon a video for electrolytic rust removal... ah ha, maybe I can dissolve it out of the stone as the electrolyte is so inert (soda) and water based.
The honing wheel came off easily, but at first could not find a video or instructions as to which direction the the shaft came out of the machine. Tried rubber mallet, then thought maybe shock would do the trick if rust had just extended inside the plastic bearings.
I did not hit the shaft very hard, more a sharp stike, than a blow... and I certainly had no thoughts about what came next..... THE STONE LITERALLY EXPLODED, pieces flew all over my basement. I was very glad nobody was down there with me. The rust buildup clearly had the stone under great stress and the tap put it over the edge.
Not a good advertisement for this product in my view. Now I have to find $275+ and grid the old shaft out... thanks stormed. Should be thankful the result wasn't worse I guess!
Kawasaki,
Your experience with your T2000 is unfortunate. However, at the risk of sounding like the prosecutor, I do not believe it is fair to fault the company for this. Tormek has always recommended removing the shaft to clean and regrease the nylon bushings once a year. This annual inspection, plus not leaving the grinding wheel wet between uses should have prevented your rust problem.
The present EZYlock stainless steel shaft has been the only shaft available since January, 2010. Relying on my memory, I recall the regular steel shaft was redesigned in stainless steel in 2006. Based on your earlier post, you were aware of a rust problen in March of 2016 when your shaft nut disintegrated. At that point, your repair costs would have been only a shaft and a few minor parts.
I suggest that you contact Tormek support (support@tormek.se) and advise them of your situation. After you replace the shaft and grinding wheel, your T2000 should have years of useful service in it.
Ken
Thank you, Ken. I agree. It is a little like my situation where my SJ wheel fell off of a folding table that collapsed and was cracked beyond usability. Not a Tormek responsibility.
Rick
Here is a link the the earlier topic referenced:
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=929.0
It is well worth reading.
Ken
So the stone was under pressure due to build up of rust on the shaft pressing outwards radially from the center? Over time the rust grew and grew until the hammer blow was the final straw that released the pent up tension? I don't know what else it could have been but that is the first time I have ever heard of such a thing. Of course I am familiar with rust seizing various objects. What a misfortune and it sounds like something that would have happened to me. In fact, it has been years since my stone was removed. I am now afraid to!
Jeff,
Have you ever removed your stone from the shaft?
Are you able to remove your nut (on the grinding wheel end of the shaft)?
Ken
The rusted/frozen shaft scenario reminds me of my pre Tormek days when I would too frequently blue a chisel or plane blade with my dry grinder. I knew the overheated part of the steel would not hold a sharp edge long. I could either grind through the damaged steel or just sharpen the blade, realizing that my edge would need more frequent sharpening.
Using our longtime stalwart member Elden as an example, he knew his grinding wheel was frozen onto the shaft and cracked when he bought his Tormek. He decided he could live with this and has successfully used his SuperGrind Tormek for years. He knows that his shaft and grinding wheel will probably become unusable eventually. Until that day may eventually arrive, he has a working Tormek.
Other members have cracked their grinding wheels while trying to remove them from the shaft. They have ordered a new grinding wheel and the EZYlock shaft kit and marched on. One could either blame Tormek for not being more forceful about regular maintenance and/or not switching to stainless steel shafts until 2006. Or one could realize that he or an original owner was less than fastidious with housekeeping and allowed the shaft to rust. Neither blame game is productive or healthy.
I would certainly contact support before attempting to separate a shaft and a nut or grinding wheel. The standard advice is penetrating oil and patience. Whether or not this helps, it does no harm. I have no idea what Tormek might offer someone with a long out of warranty rusted shaft. It would seem understandable if support offered only advice. I do not believe they would be obligated to offer parts or a discount, however, I would at least ask.
Worst case scenario, a cracked wheel and rusted shaft, ordering a new wheel and shaft kit will restore your SuperGrind. The kit also includes new nylon bushings.
I don't need another Tormek, however, if I found an otherwise working SuperGrind with a rusted/frozen shaft and grinding wheel, or a cracked grinding wheel at a very attractive price, I would buy it. With a new EZYlock shaft, it would give trooper service with my SJ, SB, or even a new SG.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on December 02, 2018, 02:09:31 AM
Jeff,
Have you ever removed your stone from the shaft?
Are you able to remove your nut (on the grinding wheel end of the shaft)?
Ken
Well, I had to find out. I just went out at dawns early light to see. I could not find the keys to my outside garage at first. Naturally I went to check the lock on the garage and found the keys in it. So much for security. I got an adjustable wrench and came inside to take a look. I have two older Tormek Supergrinds. One with a non Tormek Japanese stone and one with a SG 250. The visible washers on both were clean looking. I removed the nuts on the Japanese wheel using only hand pressure on the wrench. I had to tap the wrench on the other as it was indeed rusted to the washer behind it. I tapped said washer lightly with a cold chisel and small hammer and it popped right off. The wheel was slightly stuck. All I did was grasp the wheel firmly and turn the machine on. It immediately separated from the drive shaft and all I had to do was hold the machine and pull the wheel towards me. It came off pretty easily. There was no metal lining the hole on the wheel. It was naked stone so I don't know if it could ever have rusted to the shaft. The Japanese stone appeared to have a metal shaft on the wheel. When removing the SG 250, I had to pull it over the end of the shaft which is threaded and the threads did remove a tiny amount of stone as they worked just like a drill bit on the revolving stone. I hope it did not wallow out the stone. Interestingly, neither shaft was actually rusted, only the washers to the nuts. I am going to call this my lucky day and petition Santa for two of the new SS shafts.
Do mounting instructions come with the new shafts? I can see right now that the washers next to the frame appear to be fastened in some way. At least the one on one of my machines is fastened or seized to the shaft.
Quote from: Ken S on December 02, 2018, 02:09:31 AM
Jeff,
Have you ever removed your stone from the shaft?
Are you able to remove your nut (on the grinding wheel end of the shaft)?
Ken
For future reference. If my stone had not come loose from the shaft my next attempt would have been this. I would have taken an object like a piece of wood and my hammer drill. I would have placed the wood on the shaft or something even smaller and placed it onto the washer. By smaller I mean like a steel rod and then "hammered" into the end of the rod with the masonry bit as though drilling into it. Gentle touch to heavier as needed. I would have used a masonry bit to concentrate the force or just the drill chuck to spread the force over the cushioning block. Perhaps the "hammering" action would jar something loose. You could mitigate the amount of pressure from the hammer blows. Of course I do not recommend this as it is unproven but if you are at your wits end it is a possible solution.
I replaced the old shaft with the new stainless steel one, and don't look back. I really like that I can remove the grindstone with no tools. Also, I ensure the water trough is down and the wheel not in water.
Kind regards,
Rich
Jeff,
Here is a link to Tormek's video. When I bought my conversion kit in 2010,there were no directions. Even with the video, I suggest making a disassembly/reassembly diagram when you install the kit. Tape this diagram into your handbook. You will need this for annual regreasing.
Incidentally, the kit includes the shaft, two nylon bushings, the EZYlock nut and a stainless spacer. The kit does not include hardward for the "dry side" (the leather honing wheel). The thinking is the dry side will not rust, which seems reasonable to me.
In my opinion, the stainless EZYlock shaft is a worthwhile upgrade. I recommend changing to it before rust becomes critical. I also recommend changing the SG grinding wheel while a little useful life remains, especially if you are planning to switch to an SB or a diamond wheel. It gives you choices.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on December 03, 2018, 02:44:27 AM
...
Here is a link to Tormek's video. When I bought my conversion kit in 2010,there were no directions. Even with the video, I suggest making a disassembly/reassembly diagram when you install the kit. Tape this diagram into your handbook. You will need this for annual regreasing.
...
https://youtu.be/IX96a9WoAJE
Maybe? ??? ;)
A sort of related question... was there a version of Tormek that had plastic (or nylon) sleeves on the shaft? There's an Instagram post where a shaft is being replaced, but the old shaft has these (3) plastic "sleeves" on them...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3824.0;attach=2952)
I thought maybe he pulled an insert out of the wheel, but another poster said his also had them (3 of them)... so it sparked my curiosity. :)
CB,
Interesting post.
I contacted support. Here is their rely:
"There is no variation on the shaft regarding diameter. There was 3 centre bushings in the older super grind stones, after that it was one and now it is moulded.
The diameter of the shaft has always been 12mm."
I think the bushings may have originally been part of the bore of the grinding wheel. If they slide off the shaft easily, I might consider exopying them back into the bore of the grinding wheel.
Ken
Upon further reflection, Tormet switched to stainless steel shafts in 2006. The EZYlock was introduced in 2010. Anyone with a regular steel (pre 2006) shaft with any rust on it has had at least twelve years of service from his original shaft. Especially considering the extra expense of replacing a rusted solid to the shaft grinding wheel if the situation goes unchecked, I don't feel the $70 US cost of an EZYlock shaft is an unreasonable long term maintenance cost, any more than I feel brake replacement is unreasonable with an automobile.
The EZYlock is not just a like for worn like replacement. It is a genuine improvement. I would encourage all of our SuperGrind owners to consider this upgrade.
Ken
Ken, in an attempt to "cheap out" on buying the new stainless shaft I bought two of what the advertiser claimed were 12mm washers in stainless. When I got them they were 13mm and slid right over the threaded part of the shaft and abutted the unthreaded part of the shaft. I got out the digital caliper and indeed, the threads are 12mm but the shaft is 13mm. The seller indicated there was no such thing as OTC 12mm washers, it would have to be custom made like for the Tormek. My goal is to replace the original washer that had rusted with these stainless washers and see if that will save me about $50 on two for $100 in total. In my search for equivalent 12mm washers already here at my house I found none of course. However, I search through my drill bits and discovered that a 15/32 bit is within a paper thichness of 12mm and it is that much oversize. I bought some stainless washers and am going to drill those out and see what happens. I can always go the factory replacement route if necessary.
I agree with Ken. My SuperGrind 2000 is 16 yrs old this month. I replaced the shaft 2.5 yrs ago, and it was needed, but is also nice to have the ez on and off when I do change grindstones.
Kind regards,
Rich
Quote from: Ken S on December 12, 2018, 12:38:25 PM
CB,
Interesting post.
I contacted support. Here is their rely:
"There is no variation on the shaft regarding diameter. There was 3 centre bushings in the older super grind stones, after that it was one and now it is moulded.
The diameter of the shaft has always been 12mm."
I think the bushings may have originally been part of the bore of the grinding wheel. If they slide off the shaft easily, I might consider exopying them back into the bore of the grinding wheel.
Ken
Thanks. That's what I suspected. From the looks of other pictures... it's a really old machine... pre Supergrind 2000 I believe.
Quote from: jeffs55 on December 12, 2018, 01:31:33 PM
Ken, in an attempt to "cheap out" on buying the new stainless shaft I bought two of what the advertiser claimed were 12mm washers in stainless. When I got them they were 13mm and slid right over the threaded part of the shaft and abutted the unthreaded part of the shaft. I got out the digital caliper and indeed, the threads are 12mm but the shaft is 13mm. The seller indicated there was no such thing as OTC 12mm washers, it would have to be custom made like for the Tormek. My goal is to replace the original washer that had rusted with these stainless washers and see if that will save me about $50 on two for $100 in total. In my search for equivalent 12mm washers already here at my house I found none of course. However, I search through my drill bits and discovered that a 15/32 bit is within a paper thichness of 12mm and it is that much oversize. I bought some stainless washers and am going to drill those out and see what happens. I can always go the factory replacement route if necessary.
Jeff,
Over the years, I have "cobbled together" numerous combinations, the most extreme being adapting Norton 3X (eight inch diameter) wheels to work with both the T4 and T ten inch Tormeks. I have used two different kinds of washers: 1) I borrow a washer or two from other Tormeks or 2) Lowe's sells 12mmx38mm fender washers. I'm presently away from my shop. I think these fender washers were stainless. I found a link to zinc plated washers which should get you through:
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Hillman-3-Count-12mm-x-37mm-Zinc-Plated-Metric-Fender-Washer/3864699
You might check other sources for stainless.
Incidentally, the EZYlock kit includes a new stainless washer and two bushings. (It does not include the "dry side" washer on the thinking that the dry side doesn't rust.) Frankly, when you add in the separate cost of the stainless washer, the kit price looks better.
Jeff,
If your machine is a pre SuperGrind 2000, I think it has earned a new shaft from years of service. :)
Ken
Quote from: jeffs55 on December 12, 2018, 01:31:33 PM
Ken, in an attempt to "cheap out" on buying the new stainless shaft I bought two of what the advertiser claimed were 12mm washers in stainless. When I got them they were 13mm and slid right over the threaded part of the shaft and abutted the unthreaded part of the shaft. I got out the digital caliper and indeed, the threads are 12mm but the shaft is 13mm. The seller indicated there was no such thing as OTC 12mm washers, it would have to be custom made like for the Tormek. My goal is to replace the original washer that had rusted with these stainless washers and see if that will save me about $50 on two for $100 in total. In my search for equivalent 12mm washers already here at my house I found none of course. However, I search through my drill bits and discovered that a 15/32 bit is within a paper thichness of 12mm and it is that much oversize. I bought some stainless washers and am going to drill those out and see what happens. I can always go the factory replacement route if necessary.
Advanced Machinery?
Washer for Stone (https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/products/0111-washer-for-stone)
For those who may not know about how Advanced Machinery became "the" parts supplier for Tormek in North America, here is the story.
When Jeff Farris and Tormek went separate ways, He sold his business, Sharptoolsusa, to Advanced Machinery. The well done parts diagrams on the Advanced Machinery site were originally on the Sharptoolsusa website. Sharptoolsusa did the repair and warranty work for Tormek in the US. They may have also been the importer..
My experiences with buying parts through Advanced Machinery have all been positive. No complaints.
Ken
Quote from: cbwx34 on December 11, 2018, 04:39:25 PM
A sort of related question... was there a version of Tormek that had plastic (or nylon) sleeves on the shaft? There's an Instagram post where a shaft is being replaced, but the old shaft has these (3) plastic "sleeves" on them...
....
I thought maybe he pulled an insert out of the wheel, but another poster said his also had them (3 of them)... so it sparked my curiosity. :)
Bit of an update...
Quote from: steveswoodcave Instagram postSo if any of you good people have a Neanderthal Tormek like mine (circa 1997), and it has a very rusty shaft and you want to upgrade to the #msk250 stainless steel shaft, then our Swedish 🇸🇪 friends at Tormek do still have a few replacement plastic sleeves in stock! These three sleeves go between the old style stone that I have and the steel shaft where the stone is mounted. I couldn't get the old ones off the old shaft, they were attached for good. I have to say that Tormek customer service is absolutely fantastic, thank you!
(Old vs. New Shaft)...
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3824.0;attach=2987)
Looks like it needed to be replaced!
Rich