My tormek T-8 went out.
The scare of the year
I have a relatively new tormek, bought more than half a year ago and with very little use, a week ago I had a good job with a restaurant to sharpen all their knives, but something happened that left me worried ... and I really do not know what the cause may be, and I want to first go to the forum to find out if anyone else has happened.
That weekend I was sharpening very normal "tramontina brand" professional kitchen knives here, my city that day had a temperature of 26 °C and after 1 and a half hours of work my T-8 machine went off by itself, I really thought worst.
I turned it off and disconnected it from the power, I checked it and I noticed that it was very hot, but the work I did was the typical sharpening of knives without effort or pressure.
I waited about 15 minutes and the machine continued not to turn on, in conclusion, I put a fan on the side of the leather wheel and finished sharpening my knives by hand, worried and at the same time annoyed by what happened.
After a couple of hours I turned the machine back on and went back to operating, but I decided to turn it off and stop working with it that day and until today I have not used it again until I was sure what happened.
I worked very quiet because when I buy my T-8 one of the reasons to buy it is because of its "Motor duty Continuous" feature.
but since I do not live in a country where Tormek has support, I really do not know what options I have to verify that it was normal. I know that the machine could be shut down for security, but correct me if I'm wrong, this should not happen even with twice as much work time
Now I have the feeling of not being able to use my equipment for more than an hour and a half for fear that the next one will be a permanent failure.
I do not know if I'm doing something wrong.
I remain attentive to your opinions and comments
Fernando,
I am sorry you are having these problems. You should notify Tormek support immediately. Problems like yours are rare, however, when they do occur, based on forum reports, the quickest and best resolution happens support in Sweden is involved.
Contact support (support@tormek.se) right away. Please post how your problem is resolved. Please post whether or not you are satisfied.
Ken
I just sent mail, I'll wait for an answer to know how to proceed.
Fernando, motor overheating was already discussed on this forum. Very surprising fact is, that an idle running motor is producing more heat, than the same motor during sharpening.
It is common misconception that a Permanent-Split Capacitor motor running below its full load will run cooler and more efficiently. On the contrary, single-phase motors may become very warm at small loads or when run idle.
Why is it so? The efficiency of an idle running PSC motor drops to zero, and hence all the consumed electric power is converted to heat power. Whereas, near full load rating, the motor efficiency is greatest. The consumed power is partitioned into shaft power and the heat power. It may happen that an idle running motor generates more heat than the same motor running at full load. ;)
Jan
I do not dispute Jan's expertise with electric motors. However, the motor in the T8 is an industrial motor rated for continuous duty. I cannot imagine a 26° C day causing a properly working Tormek to fail or a failure caused by running only part of a day.
I am not ruling non Tormek related problems such as low voltage. I do believe that we need the expertise of Tormek support. Whether or not the problem is Tormek related, it should be properly investigated, including a thorough inspection of Fernando's T8 by The Tormek experts.
Ken
Quote from: Jan on July 17, 2018, 10:32:08 PM
Fernando, motor overheating was already discussed on this forum. Very surprising fact is, that an idle running motor is producing more heat, than the same motor during sharpening.
It is common misconception that a Permanent-Split Capacitor motor running below its full load will run cooler and more efficiently. On the contrary, single-phase motors may become very warm at small loads or when run idle.
Why is it so? The efficiency of an idle running PSC motor drops to zero, and hence all the consumed electric power is converted to heat power. Whereas, near full load rating, the motor efficiency is greatest. The consumed power is partitioned into shaft power and the heat power. It may happen that an idle running motor generates more heat than the same motor running at full load. ;)
Jan
I understand the overheating, but I'm worried that the machine will turn off when I finally manage to have a large volume of knives to sharpen and have to finish sharpening by hand, when I have an excellent machine but dead.
Quote from: Ken S on July 18, 2018, 01:09:18 AM
I do not dispute Jan's expertise with electric motors. However, the motor in the T8 is an industrial motor rated for continuous duty. I cannot imagine a 26° C day causing a properly working Tormek to fail or a failure caused by running only part of a day.
I am not ruling non Tormek related problems such as low voltage. I do believe that we need the expertise of Tormek support. Whether or not the problem is Tormek related, it should be properly investigated, including a thorough inspection of Fernando's T8 by The Tormek experts.
Ken
I agree with you, we must rule out any problem, and send mail to tormek support.
The other problem as i mention it, is that i'm in Colombia, tormek has no support in my country :'(
If Tormek does not have an agent in Colombia, you will probably have to deal directly with Tormek in
Sweden. You are not the only Tormek owner living in a country where Tormek does not have an agent. Tormek must have procedures for dealing with these situations; Tormek has been selling machines for over forty years.
Ken
Fernando,
I contacted Stig directly this morning. Even though he is on vacation and, with his new assignment, no longer in charge of support, he replied quickly.
Stig suggested that your problem is probably the switch. If your Tormek, during the problem, would start if you held the switch down, that would confirm his diagnosis. Stig thought the most time efficient solution would be for Tormek to send you a new switch with instructions explaining how to install it. That sounds like the quickest solution to me.
I was a troubleshooter for the telephone company for thirty give years. My training and experience would favor replacing the switch. It will probably solve your problem. You do not want to experience intermittent trouble. Replacing the switch will eliminate the most probable culprit.
Your situation is important to us. First, we have a fellow forum member with a Tormek related problem. Second, we should all understand Tormek's service procedure for owners living in countries without a national Tormek agent.
Keep us posted.
Ken
The answer was:
That sounds strange. Our motors have a heat protection circuit. But it should not be cut out at this short time of use. When we do our heat testing the motors takes about 1.5 -2 hrs before reaching maximum temperature. At maximum temp the motors will stay there for several hours without any problems.
Please know that the engine has free flow of air from the side and bottom of the housing. If it stops again pleas let me know.
In conclusion, I will return to work with the machine, and if it happens again, I will try to get more information, a video to measure the engine temperature at least superficial, show that the switch does not operate when it is turned off, voltage of the house etc. so that Tormek can give me more information.
I ran across this thread... Motor Shutting Down (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3469)... thought I'd bump it up here and see if Rick found a solution?
Fernando,
Your problem sounds like it might be either the switch or the heat overload protection. Of the two, I would guess the switch is easier to replace. I would definitely be proactive and have Tormek send you a replacement switch. Neither you nor Tormek wants your Tormek to fail a second time. Component failure can happen even with the best products.
Ken
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Re: Motor Shutting Down
« Reply #9 on: Today at 02:03:07 am »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Here is an idea to test the power. Plug your Tormek into a three way adaptor. Plug a digital clock into one of the three plugs. (Do not install a battery in the clock.) If the Tormek shuts down and the clock starts flashing, your trouble is in the electric power. If the Tormek shuts down and the clock is unchanged, the culprit wiuld appear to be the Tormek.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on July 24, 2018, 02:04:14 AM
Posts: 4836
View Profile Personal Message (Online)
Re: Motor Shutting Down
« Reply #9 on: Today at 02:03:07 am »
QuoteModifyRemoveSplit Topic
Here is an idea to test the power. Plug your Tormek into a three way adaptor. Plug a digital clock into one of the three plugs. (Do not install a battery in the clock.) If the Tormek shuts down and the clock starts flashing, your trouble is in the electric power. If the Tormek shuts down and the clock is unchanged, the culprit wiuld appear to be the Tormek.
Ken
Thanks for the data Ken.
I'm going to find a watch of these to do the test.
Fernando,
I came across this topic this morning and wondered if your problem has reoccured. Have you taken any further steps or found anything definitive?
Please keep us posted.
Ken
Hello everybody,
Just a short message to ask : any news about this ?
Rgds.
Hello everyone.
In relation to the problem of the shutdown, it has not happened to me again, but I have not tried to work my tormek T-8 for more than 1 hour, I have worked several times in the day but with a rest time of 3 hours between each operation , my machine is still heating although from what I understand that heat is normal, now as the work progresses, I touch the metal part of the leather wheel when I feel that it is already very hot to the touch, I turn on a fan so that circulate the air better through the grid that has the machine, and work quieter. I don't know if it's a good idea, but I'm just trying to be practical.
Equal my skill and learning curve improved with time and I do not take more than 4 minutes per knife so now I also finish my work faster.
I can sharpen little more than a dozen knives per hour.
and all my clients know that this is a hobby and not my main job so I have the rule of delivering the finished knives, the next day, during the week; and weekends I sharpen and deliver the same day, this way I don't work so many hours in a row with the machine and I don't tempt my luck.
I fell in love with tormek, and now almost everything I do in it, I have even stopped using my other sharpeners and sharpening stones. There are few times that I now sharpen by hand, possibly only with barbers blade and Asian knives.
Now I bought the swivel base, the scissor clip, tormek polish, and I increased my collection of pocket knives with the profits.
Use the tormek is an antistress therapy at home
Fernando,
I am pleased that your sharpening work is going well for you.
I still have questions to solve this mystery. I understand your comment that Tormek does not have an agent in Columbia. However, there are many places with similar temperatures. If the problem is weather related, Tormek dealers or agents in places like Arizona US or in Mexico should be experiencing similar problems. If they are not, I would look more closely at your Tormek.
Have you replaced your switch? I think this would be a logical first step. Support should send you a replacement switch under warranty. If your problem is not the switch, a new switch at least simplifies the problem by eliminating a prime suspect.
With the new switch in place, I would try running your Tormek for a longer time (when you are at home and not faced by a deadline) and see if you can duplicate the failure. Keep the digital clock handy to verify that there is no power interruption. Having a small electric hair dryer with you which allows you to use just air with no heat could be useful.
Keep us posted, whether the problem returns or not. Remember that your T8 includes a seven year warranty. Not having an agent in your country should not effect your warranty.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on September 13, 2019, 08:37:19 PM
Fernando,
I am pleased that your sharpening work is going well for you.
I still have questions to solve this mystery. I understand your comment that Tormek does not have an agent in Columbia. However, there are many places with similar temperatures. If the problem is weather related, Tormek dealers or agents in places like Arizona US or in Mexico should be experiencing similar problems. If they are not, I would look more closely at your Tormek.
Have you replaced your switch? I think this would be a logical first step. Support should send you a replacement switch under warranty. If your problem is not the switch, a new switch at least simplifies the problem by eliminating a prime suspect.
With the new switch in place, I would try running your Tormek for a longer time (when you are at home and not faced by a deadline) and see if you can duplicate the failure. Keep the digital clock handy to verify that there is no power interruption. Having a small electric hair dryer with you which allows you to use just air with no heat could be useful.
Keep us posted, whether the problem returns or not. Remember that your T8 includes a seven year warranty. Not having an agent in your country should not effect your warranty.
Ken
Hi ken.
When I contacted Tormek after the shutdown problem, they didn't give me the option of a replacement switch, but they did tell me to let them know if it happened to me again, and it still hasn't happened to me again and I haven't worked for a while. long work, if it happens to me again I will report it to tormek and suggest a replacement switch.
I was sorry to hear about Fernando's problem and the thought that he might lose his "anti-stress therapy" - such a pleasing expression!
I have only glanced at the T-8 brochure but note that it has an NVR switch, desirable but, perhaps, a complication. The motor seems now to be enclosed which may limit the possibility of checking its operating temperature (I use a cheap laser gadget for this kind of thing).
It would be helpful to know whether an overheat cut-out is fitted and what the maximum operating temperature is.
Good luck to Fernando!