I sent an inquiry to Tormek support this morning regarding when the new edition of the handbook might be available. I quickly received a reply from Tormek IT that they are presently loading it. The US edition is not loaded yet, however, the international edition now has chapters on both the new diamond wheels and the new MultiBase. Loading should be complete by tomorrow.
To access the new handbook, log in to my Tormek. Go to my machines and then handbook.
The Multi Base looks intriguing.
Ken
thanks for the info Ken. I'll surely download the EN copy !
Quote from: Ken S on June 07, 2018, 03:46:47 PM
...snip...
The US edition is not loaded yet, however, the international edition now has chapters on both the new diamond wheels and the new MultiBase. Loading should be complete by tomorrow.
To access the new handbook, log in to my Tormek. Go to my machines and then handbook.
The Multi Base looks intriguing.
Ken
I must be missing something. I'm in "my Tormek" and have gone to the Handbook, but find nothing about the new diamond wheels or MultiBase. In the link about "Tormek Grindstones" it is the same old three (SG, SB & SJ). The link on "Water Cooled Grinding and Sharpening of Edge Tools" doesn't bring up anything except a blank PDF window showing "Page 0 of 0".
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on June 07, 2018, 07:23:17 PM
Quote from: Ken S on June 07, 2018, 03:46:47 PM
...snip...
The US edition is not loaded yet, however, the international edition now has chapters on both the new diamond wheels and the new MultiBase. Loading should be complete by tomorrow.
To access the new handbook, log in to my Tormek. Go to my machines and then handbook.
The Multi Base looks intriguing.
Ken
I must be missing something. I'm in "my Tormek" and have gone to the Handbook, but find nothing about the new diamond wheels or MultiBase. In the link about "Tormek Grindstones" it is the same old three (SG, SB & SJ). The link on "Water Cooled Grinding and Sharpening of Edge Tools" doesn't bring up anything except a blank PDF window showing "Page 0 of 0".
Rick
The U.S. version isn't up yet. If you want to see the "international" edition, you need to pick another country... like Sweden... (but then it's not in English).
Quote from: Ken S on June 07, 2018, 03:46:47 PM
...snip...
The Multi Base looks intriguing.
Ken
More than intriguing!
Did you see the one where it shows a knife being sharpened on the side of the wheel. Confirms one thing about the angle blocks Wootz posted about, that it does work to grind in different directions on opposite sides of the blade. Raised questions about lifting and pivoting to maintain bevel angles as is needed on the round stones.
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3633.0;attach=2268)
I didn't look closely at the other images, but some show the MultiBase being positioned in some interesting manners, potentially opening many options.
I say again "More than intriguing".
Rick
Quote from: RickKrung on June 07, 2018, 07:54:06 PM
...
Did you see the one where it shows a knife being sharpened on the side of the wheel.
...
I'm waiting for the movie... ::)
Good one, CB!
Rick,
On the top right of your screen (after you are logged on), where you see USA, click the drop down menu and click on International. The only problem is that it might be British English and you might need one of our native speakers to translate it into the "real" american english. :)
I am interested to see if being able to use the flat side of the wheels rekindles the perennial debate about flat versus hollow ground. When I switched from a six inch dry grinder to a ten inch Tormek, I stopped paying much attention to that debate. Even the eight inch T4 diameter has never seemed very hollow to me.
This latest online edition of the handbook includes both the Multi Base and the 250mm diameter diamond wheels. I suspect upcoming editions will include an expanded chapter on flat and hollow grinding and probably a revised chapter on wet vs dry grinding. We live in interesting times.
By tomorrow you may not have to read the handbook in the original Swedish. Tormek IT should have the conversion complete by then.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on June 07, 2018, 09:55:58 PM
Good one, CB!
Rick,
On the top right of your screen (after you are logged on), where you see USA, click the drop down menu and click on International. ...snip...
Ken
Does not work. I tried a couple other languages and most are not there. UK not. I only found it in Swedish.
No matter, I can wait a day and I don't think it is going to tell me all that much. I do have a question about what constitutes "light pressure", but I think I'll as it as a separate post/thread.
Rick
The English version is now available. ;)
The problem is solved. Tormek IT just emailed me. There are apparently six English versions of the handbook. Not all six made the first round.
I wish all you Brits, Canadians, Australians, and Michiganers would learn to speak American! ::)
Ken
your moderator who is somewhat fluent in northeastern and central Ohio and the southern half of New Jersey dialects of American English.......
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3633.0;attach=2268)
I didn't see this yesterday. Really, not much different than using a horizontal wet wheel grinder... it'll do the job in most cases.
What an ideal use for my "Stop Collar" jig. ;)
I'm actually a bit surprised they would even show this as an option. ???
The good news... it will be easier to use other devices to set the angle... for example, a digital angle gauge comes to mind.
In my understanding the Multi Base MB-100 and the three new Tormek diamond wheels start a new epoch of universality of Tormek grinding machines. I am glad I have lived long enough to see it.
Congrats Tormek! :)
Jan
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 03:00:17 PM
I didn't see this yesterday. Really, not much different than using a horizontal wet wheel grinder... it'll do the job in most cases.
...snip...
I'm actually a bit surprised they would even show this as an option. ???
Why? It seems to me to be a major coup in that it (appears to me) levels the field and eliminates an advantage that Worksharp had with being able to grind flat.
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 03:00:17 PM
The good news... it will be easier to use other devices to set the angle... for example, a digital angle gauge comes to mind.
WhooHoo! I didn't think of this. I have the gauge already, but I think we'll have to figure out just how to use it.
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 03:00:17 PM
What an ideal use for my "Stop Collar" jig. ;)
So, does this make the game on the side of the wheel "pivot" only?
This all brings to mind that grinding on the side of the wheel changes the direction of the grinding on the bevel. That is, the grinding marks will be laterally along the bevel instead of perpendicular. I've not thought of this before and how it affects the apex, but it must work fine as it is already being done, as in the T2 and Worksharp and who know what other systems.
That also makes me wonder how it will work with the SJ wheel. I have not honed much, but use the SJ wheel instead. I understand it just polishes, but I wonder how that will work with the lateral grind pattern. (Since the SJ wheel doesn't remove all the previous grind marks, will there be a "conflicting"pattern (at least in appearance)?
Rick
Jan,
Grandfather to grandfather, I am pleased that you (and I) have lived long enough to witness this new epoch. I trust we will both live to see the next epoch or two. I believe most future innovations will be increasingly technical. We will need your keen mathematical mind and engineering experience, as well as some grandfather's wisdom.
Ken
Quote from: Jan on June 08, 2018, 04:07:03 PM
In my understanding the Multi Base MB-100 and the three new Tormek diamond wheels start a new epoch of universality of Tormek grinding machines. I am glad I have lived long enough to see it.
Congrats Tormek! :)
Jan
I'm holding out for the flying car. ;)
Quote from: RickKrung on June 08, 2018, 04:15:51 PM
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 03:00:17 PM
I didn't see this yesterday. Really, not much different than using a horizontal wet wheel grinder... it'll do the job in most cases.
...snip...
I'm actually a bit surprised they would even show this as an option. ???
Why? It seems to me to be a major coup in that it (appears to me) levels the field and eliminates an advantage that Worksharp had with being able to grind flat.
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 03:00:17 PM
The good news... it will be easier to use other devices to set the angle... for example, a digital angle gauge comes to mind.
WhooHoo! I didn't think of this. I have the gauge already, but I think we'll have to figure out just how to use it.
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 03:00:17 PM
What an ideal use for my "Stop Collar" jig. ;)
So, does this make the game on the side of the wheel "pivot" only?
This all brings to mind that grinding on the side of the wheel changes the direction of the grinding on the bevel. That is, the grinding marks will be laterally along the bevel instead of perpendicular. I've not thought of this before and how it affects the apex, but it must work fine as it is already being done, as in the T2 and Worksharp and who know what other systems.
That also makes me wonder how it will work with the SJ wheel. I have not honed much, but use the SJ wheel instead. I understand it just polishes, but I wonder how that will work with the lateral grind pattern. (Since the SJ wheel doesn't remove all the previous grind marks, will there be a "conflicting"pattern (at least in appearance)?
Rick
I'm not sure what WorkSharp you're thinking of... the powered one puts a convex edge on... so technically, Tormek is only 1/2 way there. ;) :D The T-2 doesn't either... ???
The "Stop Collar" setup will still pivot and rotate.
You got it right... sharpening like in the image they posted... you can end up with grind marks running all different directions. Not that you can't get a knife decently sharp, but it take a bit of "finesse", IMO. It's not even like wootz's setup... his (at least looks like) runs the grind close to perpendicular. Some testing done with another sharpener a while back... showed sharpening with the edge actually had a negative affect. :-\
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 05:55:33 PM
I'm not sure what WorkSharp you're thinking of... the powered one puts a convex edge on... so technically, Tormek is only 1/2 way there. ;) :D The T-2 doesn't either... ???
Horizontal Disc Sharpener: http://www.worksharptools.com/woodworking-tool-sharpener-ws-3000.html
A friend has one, that he has shown me, but I've never seen it is use, in person. I looked at some of the other Work Sharps and see what you mean about a convex edge, but this one does it flat. I was not even aware of the others.
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 05:55:33 PM
You got it right... sharpening like in the image they posted... you can end up with grind marks running all different directions. Not that you can't get a knife decently sharp, but it take a bit of "finesse", IMO. It's not even like wootz's setup... his (at least looks like) runs the grind close to perpendicular. Some testing done with another sharpener a while back... showed sharpening with the edge actually had a negative affect. :-\
That is going to be interesting. I think it depends on where on the side of a wheel on which it happens. I hope Wootz chimes in for a dose of reality, but my sense of it is that it isn't very close to perpendicular, but more angular and also not that close to lateral.
If it takes "finesse", as in more than is already necessary, I'm not sure that is a step forward. But, as one or more of you said, "quit worrying about it and theorizing. It will all make sense once the wheels are at hand" (slightly paraphrased).
Rick
By what I see in my "volume sharpening" attachment, a knife on the side of the wheel is sharpened partially edge-leading and partially edge-trailing, and this produces different burr along the parts of the edge; the grinding direction/marks is oblique rather than perpendicular to the edge.
With Tormek multibase jig on the picture one will have to walk around his Tormek several times to sharpen both sides of the knife: one side facing the machine, and another the opposite; the right side of the edge will get mostly edge-leading grinding, while the left side mostly edge-trailing.
Overall, you get a more pronounced burr and the apex slightly less sharp than when sharpened in a regular way on the wheel circumference, but of improved edge profile beneficial to cutting.
Quote from: RickKrung on June 08, 2018, 06:46:55 PM
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 05:55:33 PM
I'm not sure what WorkSharp you're thinking of... the powered one puts a convex edge on... so technically, Tormek is only 1/2 way there. ;) :D The T-2 doesn't either... ???
Horizontal Disc Sharpener: http://www.worksharptools.com/woodworking-tool-sharpener-ws-3000.html
A friend has one, that he has shown me, but I've never seen it is use, in person. I looked at some of the other Work Sharps and see what you mean about a convex edge, but this one does it flat. I was not even aware of the others.
Quote from: cbwx34 on June 08, 2018, 05:55:33 PM
You got it right... sharpening like in the image they posted... you can end up with grind marks running all different directions. Not that you can't get a knife decently sharp, but it take a bit of "finesse", IMO. It's not even like wootz's setup... his (at least looks like) runs the grind close to perpendicular. Some testing done with another sharpener a while back... showed sharpening with the edge actually had a negative affect. :-\
That is going to be interesting. I think it depends on where on the side of a wheel on which it happens. I hope Wootz chimes in for a dose of reality, but my sense of it is that it isn't very close to perpendicular, but more angular and also not that close to lateral.
If it takes "finesse", as in more than is already necessary, I'm not sure that is a step forward. But, as one or more of you said, "quit worrying about it and theorizing. It will all make sense once the wheels are at hand" (slightly paraphrased).
Rick
Oh.... the WS3000... wasn't actually designed to sharpen knives. They made a belt attachment that fit on it if I recall, (and think they discontinued it when they came out with a belt sharpener). Not saying you couldn't do it (never had one), but don't think it was made for that. (Or I'm confusing it with something else). ::)
I guess, just based on my experiences in sharpening... I don't think there's any real advantage to sharpening a knife on the side of a wheel. I thought it was designed for other things (like chisels)... and like I said, was a bit surprised Tormek presented it as an option for knives. Time will tell, but my money is on getting a better edge the "regular" way. ;)
Quote from: wootz on June 08, 2018, 07:19:25 PM
...
With Tormek multibase jig on the picture one will have to walk around his Tormek several times to sharpen both sides of the knife: one side facing the machine, and another the opposite; the right side of the edge will get mostly edge-leading grinding, while the left side mostly edge-trailing.
...
You mean you don't plan on leaning over the machine... and letting the leather wheel wear a hole in your shirt??? :o :D
I think this discussion will prove more informative once we can actually test things on real Multi Bases and diamond wheels.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on June 08, 2018, 08:56:52 PM
I think this discussion will prove more informative once we can actually test things on real Multi Bases and diamond wheels.
Ken
did you ever receive the MB-100 ?
Grizz,
I will know more next week. I am sure it is just a minor mixup. I'll keep you posted.
Ken