I found the following in the Wusthof's FAQ.
"WÜSTHOF knives can be honed and sharpened using a hand-held sharpener, an electric sharpener, a sharpening or honing steel, or
a whetstone. We recommend using the same brand sharpener as your knife collection, to ensure that the material used is the correct
hardness for the steel on your knives. Our sharpening angle for standard blades is 14˚ per side, and for Asian-style blades (Santokus,
Nakiris, Chai Daos) is 10˚ per side. We offer a variety of sharpening products with pre-set angles. WÜSTHOF also offers a low-cost
professional mail-in sharpening service. See below for sharpening service instructions."(http://www.wusthof.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf/FAQ_SS_V2.pdf)
We know that knives made of good steel can be sharpened to 15 degrees per side. But Wusthof sharpens the Asian-style knives to 10 degrees per side. Is 10 degrees too low angle? Is there any problem with edge retention?
Quote from: sharpco on November 21, 2017, 02:28:05 AM
I found the following in the Wusthof's FAQ.
"WÜSTHOF knives can be honed and sharpened using a hand-held sharpener, an electric sharpener, a sharpening or honing steel, or
a whetstone. We recommend using the same brand sharpener as your knife collection, to ensure that the material used is the correct
hardness for the steel on your knives. Our sharpening angle for standard blades is 14˚ per side, and for Asian-style blades (Santokus,
Nakiris, Chai Daos) is 10˚ per side. We offer a variety of sharpening products with pre-set angles. WÜSTHOF also offers a low-cost
professional mail-in sharpening service. See below for sharpening service instructions."(http://www.wusthof.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf/FAQ_SS_V2.pdf)
We know that knives made of good steel can be sharpened to 15 degrees per side. But Wusthof sharpens the Asian-style knives to 10 degrees per side. Is 10 degrees too low angle? Is there any problem with edge retention?
Many Japanese knives are hardened to a higher level, and can easily handle 10 degrees per side. The other side of the coin though is, they are less forgiving if not used properly. (It's why you'll see a lot of them with chipped/damaged edges).
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 21, 2017, 04:10:19 AM
Quote from: sharpco on November 21, 2017, 02:28:05 AM
I found the following in the Wusthof's FAQ.
"WÜSTHOF knives can be honed and sharpened using a hand-held sharpener, an electric sharpener, a sharpening or honing steel, or
a whetstone. We recommend using the same brand sharpener as your knife collection, to ensure that the material used is the correct
hardness for the steel on your knives. Our sharpening angle for standard blades is 14˚ per side, and for Asian-style blades (Santokus,
Nakiris, Chai Daos) is 10˚ per side. We offer a variety of sharpening products with pre-set angles. WÜSTHOF also offers a low-cost
professional mail-in sharpening service. See below for sharpening service instructions."(http://www.wusthof.com/media/wysiwyg/pdf/FAQ_SS_V2.pdf)
We know that knives made of good steel can be sharpened to 15 degrees per side. But Wusthof sharpens the Asian-style knives to 10 degrees per side. Is 10 degrees too low angle? Is there any problem with edge retention?
Many Japanese knives are hardened to a higher level, and can easily handle 10 degrees per side. The other side of the coin though is, they are less forgiving if not used properly. (It's why you'll see a lot of them with chipped/damaged edges).
Most of Wusthof's knives are heat treated with HRC58.
http://www.wusthof.com/products/classic/8-cook-s-knife
http://www.wusthof.com/7-santoku-hollow-edge-1945
I know that the santoku knife is light, so there is little impact on the edge. But even so, 10 degrees per side seems to be too little. In addition, it does not meet Tormek's recommendations.
https://www.tormek.com/international/en/user-categories/knife-sharpening/
Quote from: sharpco on November 21, 2017, 04:28:05 AM
Most of Wusthof's knives are heat treated with HRC58.
http://www.wusthof.com/products/classic/8-cook-s-knife
http://www.wusthof.com/7-santoku-hollow-edge-1945
I know that the santoku knife is light, so there is little impact on the edge. But even so, 10 degrees per side seems to be too little. In addition, it does not meet Tormek's recommendations.
https://www.tormek.com/international/en/user-categories/knife-sharpening/
Hmmmm... that would make me wonder if they're really sharpened at 10 deg. Be interesting to get one and check. (What manufacturers say and do don't always agree). Definitely would require a more delicate use. (Also not impressed that the sharpeners they offer are the "pull through" type).
I would, like any other knife, evaluate it based on its current sharpening angle, and whether the edge is holding up. If not, adjust accordingly.
I don't think it's a conflict of what Wusthof's says vs. what Tormek says. Tormek is a general guideline for many knives... Wusthof is a guideline for their particular brand. (Don't get too caught up in the numbers). ??? It's only been fairly recent that "Western" style knives are adopting some of the "Eastern" style attributes... lower angles being one of them. (Could be they got only 1/2 of the equation?)
Quote from: cbwx34 on November 21, 2017, 04:50:40 AM
Quote from: sharpco on November 21, 2017, 04:28:05 AM
Most of Wusthof's knives are heat treated with HRC58.
http://www.wusthof.com/products/classic/8-cook-s-knife
http://www.wusthof.com/7-santoku-hollow-edge-1945
I know that the santoku knife is light, so there is little impact on the edge. But even so, 10 degrees per side seems to be too little. In addition, it does not meet Tormek's recommendations.
https://www.tormek.com/international/en/user-categories/knife-sharpening/
Hmmmm... that would make me wonder if they're really sharpened at 10 deg. Be interesting to get one and check. (What manufacturers say and do don't always agree). Definitely would require a more delicate use. (Also not impressed that the sharpeners they offer are the "pull through" type).
I would, like any other knife, evaluate it based on its current sharpening angle, and whether the edge is holding up. If not, adjust accordingly.
I don't think it's a conflict of what Wusthof's says vs. what Tormek says. Tormek is a general guideline for many knives... Wusthof is a guideline for their particular brand. (Don't get too caught up in the numbers). ??? It's only been fairly recent that "Western" style knives are adopting some of the "Eastern" style attributes... lower angles being one of them. (Could be they got only 1/2 of the equation?)
Good answer, cbwx.
There is a difference between European and US sharpening angles. Many US knife brands are using 40 degree angle as standard while European (and japanes brands made to be used in Europe) has a 30 degree angle. And this is the total angle I am referring to.
There is no easy answer how and why when it comes to knife-sharpening. I sharpen almost all knifes to 30 degree total angle when I sharpen to friends or on demos. With that said, I have a pretty good knowledge about the brands we have in Europa.
When experience starts to show, everything gets easier and you learn about the metals in the blades.
I would personally not sharpen a knife at 20 degree, I have all kind of knifes and even if some of them has 58 hrc and up to 62 hrc, i would never sharpen them at such angle. It would be very sharp but nor for a very long time.
Best,
Stig
I follow the general guidance to sharpen 15° bevel angles on common kitchen knives, but I am not quite sure that the major knife manufacturers follow this rule also.
As I have already mentioned a year ago I have measured the edge angle of my quite new 6" long Victorinox kitchen knife (6.8003.15) with my laser goniometer and got circa 20° (i.e. 10° bevel angles). The knife does not have parallel sides, it tappers towards the edge, the angle of the blade is about 3°. The spine thickness is only 1.4 mm.
I was wondering about the bevel angle and asked Victorinox for possible explanation but received only a formal answer.
You can imagine that the knife was cutting like a razor but the edge retention was short. After two months of moderate use I have reground the blade to standard 15° bevel angles and now I am very satisfied with knife performance. I sharpen the knife twice a year and hone the edge in-between.
Jan
I sharpened two knife sets yesterday for my friend's wife.
One set of Global knives that were chipped badly and some small tip breakages etc, these knives had been badly treated on a steel, some of the chips were .75mm deep into the edge. Most of the edges were pushed back to about 8-10deg each side which probably caused the chips etc. I took them back out to 15 deg each side and cleaned them up on paper wheels. All are now very sharp with nice new factory bevels.
The other set were Mundial and they were also in similar condition. Most of them were also around 10deg which is recommended angle, but, I think the makers sometimes put too acute an angle on to get a factory "WOW" sharp for instant sales. I put new angles of 15deg each side on most of them and small paring knives 18 deg because they get worked the most. I returned the knife sets with complimentary band aids just in case ;).
As mentioned in some earlier posts I would not sweat about the angles too much as long as you can get a good long lasting edge back on them.
Thank you all.
I will ignore the Wusthof's recommendation(10 degrees per side).
I am generally in the fifteen degree camp. However, when I sharpened my Chinese vegetable cleaver to fifteen degrees, I noticed that the knife was originally sharpened to a more acute angle. The edge had held up well. The next time I sharpen it, I might try a different angle, perhaps twelve degree bevel angles. I would not do this with a knife sharpened for another person, however, this is my personal knife. I think the replies posted here offer very dolid advice. I do not disagree. I do believe that there is also value in learning by doing, even if it involves learning what does not work. I tried regrinding a twelve dollar santoku knife with a single fifteen degree left handed bevel. I am left handed. It cuts very thin slices of apple, which my wife and I enjoy. It may not be the only or best way. It has worked so far. I remain open to other options.
Ken
Ken, this is why I ask the manufacturers for the angle they sharpen whatever the knife that I bought is. So far, most have responded pretty quick.
SADW,
Would love to have access the accumulated information you've compiled from the manufacturers.
Kind regards,
Rich
Quote from: RichColvin on November 23, 2017, 01:19:03 PM
SADW,
Would love to have access the accumulated information you've compiled from the manufacturers.
Kind regards,
Rich
I think I have contacted only three so far, and it was on certain series/brands of knives. (basically due to finding deals on the knives, not retail)