In a couple of recent posts... it's been mentioned that knife sharpening is not the main focus of the Tormek. But it appears Tormek is venturing more into this field, with the creation of the T-2 specifically for kitchen/commercial sharpening of knives... and also the recent T-4 "Bushcraft Edition"...
(http://image.ibb.co/jYNL7F/Tormek_T4_Bushcraft_Edition.png) (http://imgbb.com/)
So... here's my question. What would you like to see, and/or, what do you think would make the Tormek a better knife sharpener? Some have already been mentioned (and some I've added):
- Self Centering Clamp
- Faster and easier way to set the angle (i.e. an alternative to the AngleMaster)
- Improvements to the jig (or a new jig) to make it easier to maintain a consistent angle thru the curve of blade to the tip
... and one a bit outside the box...
- I'd like to see a ceramic rod that could easily be kept with the machine (I use one quite a bit). Perhaps even mounted so that a knife could be run across it while attached to the Tormek.
So, what's on your list? (If it's the same as what someone else posts... post it anyway... maybe an idea of what's most important will surface).
CB,
Thanks for posting about the T4 package. In my opinion, it is the best deal I have seen for a T4. I think $425 US (the package price) is about the current price for just the T4. (It was $399 until July 1.) The knife jig is around forty dollars, and would serve for all of my knives. My two largest kitchen knives are eight inches, a chef's knife and a slicer. I would guess the Mora knife would cost fifteen to twenty dollars. I like Mora knives, and have three of them. They are well made, simple knives, made in Sweden, and very reasonably priced. I do not own an ax jig, as I do not own an ax.
I am on record as liking the T4, based on my actual use. I am also on record as not favoring choosing between a T4 and a T8 based on cost. However, if any of our members or guests have already decided that they want a T4, this is the best deal I have seen. I would contact your local Tormek dealer and verify that they will be having the speciall sale edition. If you deal online, verify that the $425 price includes free shipping.
Regarding the Anglemaster and setting knives, I have found the Anglemaster works well. The trick is to use a substitute target. Measure the projection of the knife edge from the adjustable stop. Substitute two thicknesses of plastic gift card for the knife in the jig. Set the gift cards to project the same amount as the knife. Place the jig in the universal support with the cards resting against the grinding wheel. The flat surface of the gift cards gives an easy measuring surface for the Anglemaster.
I do believe the knife jigs could be improved. I also think we could improve our level of proficiency using them. I include myself in this group. Careful set up will help; so will experience.
Ken
I want the honing wheel positioned such that the grinding wheel is not in the way while honing (long) cooks knives.
A separate honing system would also be an option, but would be expensive due to the additional motor.
Quote from: Dutchman on August 18, 2017, 10:52:46 AM
I want the honing wheel positioned such that the grinding wheel is not in the way while honing (long) cooks knives.
A separate honing system would also be an option, but would be expensive due to the additional motor.
Ton, if you run T7, I will send you our Frontal Vertical Base for Tormek T7 for angle-controlled honing and edge-trailing grinding for free.
As a big thank you for your Grinding Angle Adjustment study and booklet - the main thing that made precision sharpening to under 1 micron edge possible for me.
You can have a look at the base on our website http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop_VB.htm (http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop_VB.htm)
Please PM me your postal address.
Dutchman's study is publicly available from a link in here http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849.0 (http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849.0)
Some good ideas already!
Quote from: Ken S on August 18, 2017, 01:55:16 AM
Regarding the Anglemaster and setting knives, I have found the Anglemaster works well. The trick is to use a substitute target. Measure the projection of the knife edge from the adjustable stop. Substitute two thicknesses of plastic gift card for the knife in the jig. Set the gift cards to project the same amount as the knife. Place the jig in the universal support with the cards resting against the grinding wheel. The flat surface of the gift cards gives an easy measuring surface for the Anglemaster.
Ken
Ken, this is a good idea... but it pretty much reinforces my thought that a better designed (or alternative) AngleMaster would be beneifical. :)
Quote from: Dutchman on August 18, 2017, 10:52:46 AM
I want the honing wheel positioned such that the grinding wheel is not in the way while honing (long) cooks knives.
A separate honing system would also be an option, but would be expensive due to the additional motor.
If you have the "profile honing wheel"... you can add the standard leather wheel to that and give yourself a bit more room. Since the honing wheel won't have the guide to center it on the shaft, I found if you put the profile setup vertical, then put the honing wheel on top, it will pretty much "self center" (if you try this it should make sense). Once you have the honing wheel locked in place, then put the whole setup onto the Tormek. (Picture attached).
So, translated, an extension where the honing wheel could be easily mounted to give a bit more room between wheels might be the solution?
Quote from: wootz on August 18, 2017, 12:24:48 PM
... our Frontal Vertical Base for Tormek T7 for angle-controlled honing and edge-trailing grinding for free.
As a big thank you for your Grinding Angle Adjustment study and booklet - the main thing that made precision sharpening to under 1 micron edge possible for me.
You can have a look at the base on our website http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop_VB.htm (http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop_VB.htm)
Dutchman's study is publicly available from a link in here http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849.0 (http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849.0)
This is cool. I've often thought that the support for the wheel turning away, should also be vertical... or at least have the option.
My latest iteration of what I've been working on here (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3323.msg19951#msg19951), puts the attachment in a vertical position (see attached picture).
Yours is an elegant solution. So, translated... an adapter to easily convert the horizontal USB to a vertical setup you already have available. Nice job. (Kinda wish I saw it earlier haha). :)
Quote from: Dutchman on August 18, 2017, 10:52:46 AM
I want the honing wheel positioned such that the grinding wheel is not in the way while honing (long) cooks knives.
A separate honing system would also be an option, but would be expensive due to the additional motor.
Dutchman,
I think the most cost effective solution would be to remove the leather honing wheel on your first Tormek and do your leather honing on a second Tormek. The second unit could be an older model.
The honing wheel on the T2 is beveled to allow longer knives.
By the way, thank you again for your pioneering work on grinding bevel angles. Your contribution has made many things possible, including the kenjig.
CB,
In this case, the Anglemaster is not the problem. If the sides of all knives were ground parallel, this problem would be minimized.
More later; must dash.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on August 18, 2017, 03:58:56 PM
CB,
In this case, the Anglemaster is not the problem. If the sides of all knives were ground parallel, this problem would be minimized.
Ken
I'm not saying the AngleMaster won't work... just looking for better solutions. Your point that all knives aren't ground parallel, is one reason the AngleMaster isn't an easy way to set the angle. Sure there are alternatives... most knives have a flat spot on the blade you can use, you can measure the knife grind and adjust for it, etc.
But, picture an "AngleMaster 2.0" that, for example, took the reading right from the flat portion of the (improved ;)) knife jig. Throw in a digital gauge (what a lot of guided sharpeners are moving to) for improved accuracy. Should make setting the angle faster, and more accurate. (Trust me, if I had the means to do some of this... I'd give it a shot).
My ultimate hope is that some ideas can come from this thread, that might be worth incorporating on a wider level... if that makes sense. (And points like yours further the ideas... thanks!)
CB,
First, let me compliment you on your interesting links (bottom of your last post). I especially enjoyed the interview with Terry, the guy who has sharpened two to three thousand knives a year on a Tormek he purchased used in 2002. That's experience!
I recommend watching the other Harleywood videos. In the interview with Stig, Stig compared the knives he sharpens with those Terry sharpens. Terry is more likely to encounter nicked or abused knives, which require heavier grinding. Terry replaces his SG-250 when it reaches 200 mm. His primary concern is quality control rather than saving pennies. I like that. His grinding wheels get replaced in less than a year. Stig, who uses a T4 at home, also sharpens many knives, although the knives he sharpens are generally not abused. With this lighter grinding, Stig does not expect to ever have to replace the SG-200 on his T4.
Terry also spoke about the miniscule amount of hollow grind with the Tormek. Terry seems like the triumph of practical over the theoretical to me.
I generally remove my grinding wheel at the end of each sharpening session. As such, I get a lot of practice with the EZYlock. My one very minor criticism of Harleywood is that he is not fluent with the EZYlock. I still rate his videos highly.
I feel funny defending the Anglemaster200. If you ever used its predecessor, the Anglemaster 100, you would think the 200 was much improved. The 200 is a useful tool, however, I rarely use it. I use the kenjig or variations of it most of the time. I am quite sure a toolmaker could make a more accurate tool. I am just as certain that such a tool would cost as much as a second Tormek. When combined with the Anglemaster, the substitute target I posted offers a simple, low cost reliable solution.
Since I began using the Tormek in 2009, both the T7 and T3 have been replaced. The EZYlock shaft has been added, as well as two new grinding wheels. Almost all of the jigs have been redesigned. Tormek is not resting on its laurels. There is room to grow, although, much growth has already taken place.
Ken
cbwx34, your "Knife Sharpening with the Tormek: Links/References" http://wp.me/P93bLq-g (http://wp.me/P93bLq-g) is really something... that's the reference indeed covering most topics said by Tormek and this forum on knife sharpening.
With your permission, I am adding link to your reference on my website in the Sharpening Resources section.
The only two topics I found missing, and they are truly the two only that are missing, otherwise you've done an exhaustive compilation - are:
Middle overgrinding discussion - every knife sharpener must be aware of this from the very start https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3055.msg16402#msg16402 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3055.msg16402#msg16402)
and stone truing & grading hints https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3053.msg16372#msg16372 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3053.msg16372#msg16372)
Thank you
Excellent post, Wootz!
Ken
Quote from: wootz on August 19, 2017, 01:23:33 AM
cbwx34, your "Knife Sharpening with the Tormek: Links/References" http://wp.me/P93bLq-g (http://wp.me/P93bLq-g) is really something... that's the reference indeed covering most topics said by Tormek and this forum on knife sharpening.
With your permission, I am adding link to your reference on my website in the Sharpening Resources section.
The only two topics I found missing, and they are truly the two only that are missing, otherwise you've done an exhaustive compilation - are:
Middle overgrinding discussion - every knife sharpener must be aware of this from the very start https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3055.msg16402#msg16402 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3055.msg16402#msg16402)
and stone truing & grading hints https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3053.msg16372#msg16372 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3053.msg16372#msg16372)
Thank you
Thanks... and thanks for the links, I've added them. Feel free to add the link to your site.
Any other suggestions (from anyone) are welcome! I'm finding new info every day. :)
Quote from: Ken S on August 18, 2017, 08:33:48 PM
CB,
First, let me compliment you on your interesting links (bottom of your last post). I especially enjoyed the interview with Terry, the guy who has sharpened two to three thousand knives a year on a Tormek he purchased used in 2002. That's experience!
.....
I feel funny defending the Anglemaster200. If you ever used its predecessor, the Anglemaster 100, you would think the 200 was much improved. The 200 is a useful tool, however, I rarely use it. I use the kenjig or variations of it most of the time. I am quite sure a toolmaker could make a more accurate tool. I am just as certain that such a tool would cost as much as a second Tormek. When combined with the Anglemaster, the substitute target I posted offers a simple, low cost reliable solution.
....
Thanks for the compliment. Just wanted to add, don't feel like you need to "defend" the AngleMaster... the purpose of this thread isn't to say that something is "bad"... just wondering if certain aspects could be improved... and seeing what ideas others have.
BTW, have a picture of the AngleMaster 100? Surprisingly, can't find one on the net. (Gotta be a first). ???
Quote from: wootz on August 18, 2017, 12:24:48 PM
You can have a look at the base on our website http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop_VB.htm (http://knifegrinders.com.au/11Shop_VB.htm)
Wootz, congrats to your new web site introducing your business. I have found several inspiring items there. I have admired the order and cleanliness of your workshop. Almost as an operating room.
Your very nice page describes Computer Software for Scientific approach for an exceptional edge which was previously discussed on this forum also.
http://knifegrinders.com.au/05Equipment_scripts.htm
I have a question to you. On the BESS score card shown on your web it is written that "100 on BESS ≈ 1 micron". I am wondering about it, because Mike Brubacher claims that the BESS sharpness of a new DE razor with apex width of 0.1 micron should be 50 gf. Based on this I would expect that 100 gf on BESS ≈ 0.2 micron for a DE razor. Do you have some reasons for your larger margin?
Jan
Hi Jan,
I hastily put up my website myself using Notepad++, and know it looks like an ugly duckling.
It is pure factual. Other things keep me too busy to bother about its beautification.
We can discuss the BESS-to-apex_width correlation on www.bessex.com later on when i have a free minute.
Thanks for asking though, as it is important to get this clear because customers talk of edge in microns, not BESS yet unfortunately, and i have to speak the customers' language to be understood.
I'd like to see Tormek make a platform jig for knife sharpening.
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on August 21, 2017, 05:38:49 AM
I'd like to see Tormek make a platform jig for knife sharpening.
I agree... and would add that a moveable "blade stop" could be added to the platform, that could be moved up behind the spine of the blade. This would help control the blade... especially grinding into the bevel, it would prevent the blade from being "pushed back".
Make the stone grader part of the package. (do you need to sharpen, or grind out chips?)
Include shims or a new jig to deal with non parallel side blades.
Sometimes I wish the leather wheel was further out (ever hit the tip of a newly sharpened knife, back on the grinding wheel when buffing?).
A platform, for when the small knife jig, isn't appropriate.
Quote from: SharpenADullWitt on August 25, 2017, 09:16:39 AM
Make the stone grader part of the package. (do you need to sharpen, or grind out chips?)
Include shims or a new jig to deal with non parallel side blades.
Sometimes I wish the leather wheel was further out (ever hit the tip of a newly sharpened knife, back on the grinding wheel when buffing?).
A platform, for when the small knife jig, isn't appropriate.
Thanks for the response.
Not sure if it always was... but the stone grader is now part of the package.
I would rather see a new jig vs. shims. And it would be nice to see an accessory that would extend the leather wheel position farther out (so you also wouldn't have to remove it while sharpening).
Good ideas! Thanks!
I think I said the wrong thing then. (falling asleep writing that, been working extra)
The truing tool.
Quote from: SharpenADullWitt on August 25, 2017, 03:13:31 PM
I think I said the wrong thing then. (falling asleep writing that, been working extra)
The truing tool.
Ah. It also now comes with the T-8. ;)
Perhaps we should restate the question to read, how many would like to see improvements to the knife sharpening jigs, and be willing to pay twice as much for the jigs?
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on August 25, 2017, 08:14:11 PM
Perhaps we should restate the question to read, how many would like to see improvements to the knife sharpening jigs, and be willing to pay twice as much for the jigs?
Ken
Hey Ken:
Not sure why you're fixated on a redesign of the knife jig being such a high cost? I don't think a redesign of the collar, and/or a self centering clamp, would be a major increase in price. Both are available on other sharpening systems... and I think it could fall well within the current price range, since it's more of a change to the current model... not a total change to the clamp setup itself.
True, you could make a clamp as detailed as some of the other clamps (the drill bit jig comes to mind)... but not really asking for that here. :)
The Universal Support play in the sleeves haunts all models.
For example, the horizontal base on T7 has no play, so it is doable.
I hoped in vain the T8 cast top & sleeves would fix it, nope.
Quote from: Ken S on August 25, 2017, 08:14:11 PM
Perhaps we should restate the question to read, how many would like to see improvements to the knife sharpening jigs, and be willing to pay twice as much for the jigs?
Ken
You know how the old method of using square pieces of wood to set the turning jigs worked. Well I don't see the jigs really having to be expensive as a simple piece of plastic to use to space something like the T2's jig, so it would mount in the same relation to the machine as the stone wears. This would't be that expensive of a jig and for actual places that do nothing but knifes, the T2 would be the thing with the non wearing wheel.