Hi all,
I've been coveting these Tormeks for years, but never could justify the cost. I've already invested well over grand over the years in sharpening supplies for my various hobbies, but being spread out over a decade or so makes that easier to swallow, I could never justify that cost all in one shot on a single machine and it's jigs!
A little about the hobbies I have that require sharpening: I have a decent collection of knives to maintain, from pocket to survival to some fairly expensive Japanese kitchen knives; I've been collecting and using antique straight razors for years now (obviously not something the Tormek will help with. They require dead flat stones and they don't touch anything below 1k, and finish around 12-15k); Woodworking tools include HSS turning tools, chisels, bench planes, draw knives, axes, adzes, and carving gouges; leather working tools include various knives and punches.
For all these things i currently use: water stones (synthetics, slates, coticules), diamond plates, ceramic rods, a Spyderco Tri-Angle Sharpmaker, the WorkSharp Ken Onion edition mini belt sander thing, a grinder with a fryable wheel and a grinder with paper disks, and granite slabs with wet/dry sandpapers and micro-abrasive sheets.
This isn't to say I'm an expert or anything, far from it...just that I have a bit of experience with many different methods on some varying types of tools
But then I came across an older SuperGrind 2000 at an estate sale a couple weeks back that was, too put it mildly, a heck of a bargain :o
Here's what was included:
-it's the version of the 2000 that has the tapered front and the dual mounts for the support bar
-the standard sg-250 wheel and leather strop wheel (more on this below)
-handbook edition 7.1
-the angle master
-3 knife jigs (more on this below)
-scissor jig
-2 square edge jigs (one is the SE-76. The other i assume is older, the sticker is missing, but it looks... Simpler, less refined)
-tool rest svd-110
-half a tube of somewhat dried out honing compound
For all of this together i ended up paying $105 :o 8)
Overall it seems to be in good shape, but required a bit of tuning up right off the batt.
The surface of the wheel was a bit rough and the wheel itself was out of round. I picked up the truing tool and the stone grader....by the time i got everything trued up the wheel is at 235mm. Not bad.
The leather honing wheel had a gouge in it, so that got sanded down a bit with the tool running, then re-oiled. Works alright now, but eventually I plan to replace the existing leather with a new piece (no offense intended but it boggles my mind, some of the topics I've read here in regards to that leather wheel. The number of people who say it's cheap enough to replace the whole thing, and that it's a good value for a new one? Cheapest I've seen is around $70...vs about a dollar's worth of leather and glue. And don't get me started on the idea of cleaning the wheel in a dishwasher....know how hardened leather forms are made? Hot water is the simplest method ;))
Anywho, with all those saving I've already also purchased the following:
-SVS38 short tool jig (or so I thought, needs to be returned to amazon, they gave me the old svs32 model >:()
-svs59 multi jig
-svd186 turning tool jig
-tts100 turning tool setter
-la120 profiled leather honing wheel
-along with a foam filled case to store all the jigs
Things still on my list:
I'll eventually want to replace the shaft with the stainless one
And get the mount for using these tools at my other grinder (it took me hours reprofiling a 1"x1/4" hss skew on the tormek wheel last week), which will also give me the newer tool rest with the micro adjust feature
I know this has turned into a whole book here lol but if you've read this far, I have just a couple questions:
As I mentioned, this came with 3 knife jigs...which is a bit confusing. I can only find reference to 2 different sizes anywhere on tormek's site.
What I've got here is the svm140, then something that looks to be an older version of the svm45 (functions and measurements are the same, just no model number stamped on it).
The third looks just like the svm140, but is only 100mm wide.
So the question is, was this an old version of the long knife jig? Or is this something different?
Can anyone suggest a method for sharpening a round knife / head knife?
It's a thin flat bladed knife with a semi circular edge, about 4-5" in diameter.
Here's an example on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K8WVA54/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_llFHzbB4R33CE)
I don't have one here to experiment with yet, but looking to get one soon and just thinking ahead. I don't expect it to be long enough to use the tool rest without the handle hitting the rest
I'm sure I'll have more questions over time, but i think I've rambled on enough for now ;D
Quote from: Kavik on August 05, 2017, 06:34:45 PM
As I mentioned, this came with 3 knife jigs...which is a bit confusing. I can only find reference to 2 different sizes anywhere on tormek's site.
What I've got here is the svm140, then something that looks to be an older version of the svm45 (functions and measurements are the same, just no model number stamped on it).
The third looks just like the svm140, but is only 100mm wide.
So the question is, was this an old version of the long knife jig? Or is this something different?
Can anyone suggest a method for sharpening a round knife / head knife?
It's a thin flat bladed knife with a semi circular edge, about 4-5" in diameter.
Here's an example on amazon (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00K8WVA54/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_llFHzbB4R33CE)
I don't have one here to experiment with yet, but looking to get one soon and just thinking ahead. I don't expect it to be long enough to use the tool rest without the handle hitting the rest
Congrats on your purchase. Sounds like a great deal.
This is the only part I can answer... the 100mm was an older version replaced by the 140mm "long knife jig".
I'll be interested if someone has an answer for the knife you linked to. I have something similar... the only way I could do it on the Tormek was freehand... very carefully. :)
BTW, I think if you register on the main Tormek website, you can download an updated version of the manual. Tons of info in the forum though... I'm finding new 'gems' every day.
Enjoy!
Thanks for the response! With all these outdated jigs I'm also curious about the age of the machine... Can anyone take a guess at that based on the clues above?
And thanks for the tip, but i already registered and got the new manual while waiting for the "approval process" to join the forum :)
Oh, and so far I've managed to get my set of 7 Chisels ALMOST perfectly square and sharp, plus 2 hand planes, 2 skew chisels (this was the worst of the bunch in terms of frustration and errors), 2 spindle gouges, 1 roughing gouge, and a small set of scissors.
Learning a lot on what I've done so far, and high hopes for improving with practice!
Welcome to the forum, Kavik. You certainly got a deal on your Tormek. (If many of us had seen it first, it would have been gone! ;) )
If you go onto the main Tormek website, click on about Tormek; click on news archiv. That will bring up a history of when various models and accessories were introduced. Your Tormek predated the T7 and the LA 120 honing component. I would guess your Tormek to be circa 2000-2005.
Many of us, myself included, have collected many other sharpening parts over the years. In my case, my dry grinder and bench stones have essentially laid unused since I purchased my Tormek. The notable exception is my collection of handfiles. I use them for many things.
Do register your Tormek online (tormek.com). You are out of warranty, however, you can watch several good instructional videos (newer models, but same technology) and, you can download the latest version of the handbook.
The 100 mm knife jig was the predecessor of the 140mm. I have one, and use it frequently as part of my five jig knife set up.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Haha yeah, the guy running the estate sale told me i was stealing it at that price, but the former owner's wife set the prices, not him. I knew it was a deal, but didn't know how much of one till I got home and started researching.
Thanks for the welcome Ken, and the info. Already registered, and have watched a few videos so far, but have more to watch still. I'll check out those news links though. I know it's likely this machine will outlast me anyway, regardless of it's current age, I just like to learn about the tools I get
Oh yes! Files, have a bunch of those too lol
Honestly, I think I'll stick to those for the axes and adzes. My adzes all have the bevels on the inside of the curves anyway, and I'm not sure i like the idea of a hollow grind on a hatchet/axe anyway
As for the dry grinder.... Really not ready to give that up just yet, not after how long this first HSS skew took me. Even fresh off the diamond truing tool it cut soooo slow and the rough side of the stone grader barely helped every few minutes. And these are M2 steel, which I believe isn't even the toughest form of hss out there
Maybe once i get all the tools really dialed in to profiles i like, to where they just need touchups, maybe that'll change for me too
I live in an apartment, my "shop" is an enclosed porch.... So it'd be nice to be able to get that bit of space back anyway, if i can (the tormek will live in my office, for temperature concerns)
Quote from: Kavik on August 05, 2017, 06:34:45 PM
I don't expect it to be long enough to use the tool rest without the handle hitting the rest
Try the base of your scissors jig. You may have to attach a platform to the top of it to get it to work, but it will indeed be better than the tool rest jig because its surface is much closer to the Universal Support.
My machine was purchased in 2002 and it sounds as though it's the same as yours.
By the way, your older leather honing wheel is made of plastic. Examine it for cracks before you spend any time trying to replace the leather. The new ones are made of metal. If you do replace the leather please let us know how it goes. I don't recall anyone ever describing an attempt at that. Getting the old leather off may be the hard part.
Another thing you may want to check is the nylon bearings for the main shaft. They tend to wear over time. If you upgrade to the stainless shaft, the kit does come with a pair of new bearings.
Thanks Hernan! The idea for the scissor jig base sounds like a great idea. Will definitely give that a shot once I get the knife
Just checked, no signs of cracks :) If it works out I'll make a thread about it when I get around to doing that, but it's probably going to be a while before it's needed.
My thoughts so far are this: someone mentioned trying to clean theirs of too much oil with hot water and the glue to separate a bit, so i figure I'll start with a hot water soak and careful peeling... Then it's just a matter of careful measuring and cutting, then i can't imagine regular contact cement wouldn't be enough to hold the new leather down. In theory it all sounds rather simple.... But we all know how often things go according to theory lol
Looking ahead, i don't think the contoured ones would be that hard to recreate either. A large scrap of 8oz veg tanned leather should be the perfect thickness. Shaping can be started with skivers and find tuned by scraping with a sharp razor, or with a sanding drum on a dremel, while the wheel is turning.
A couple buck's worth of leather and some time vs ~$40 for the replacement piece.... Certainly worth a try at least
Can the bearings be checked without removing the wheel? Or is a visual inspection needed? I don't feel any side to side movement
I really am expecting this nut to be a bear to remove, will most likely purchase the new shaft before even attempting that, so i only have to go through it once
The topic of nut removal resurfaces occasionally. The keyword to success is patience (combined with time and penetrating oil). Frankly, if the nut does not come off with only a reasonable effort, I would abandon the effort. Sometimes a broken grinding wheel can be collateral damage in heroic efforts. It should be noted that these problems are usually caused by not dumping and cleaning the water trough after use and/or not disassembling and regreasing the bearings annually (if ever). Tormek became aware of this issue and since 2006, all shafts have been stainless steel.
I occasionally apply some (not much or often) leather cleaner on my honing wheel. No hot water for me! You can always spot the you tube newby reviews by the pristine leather honing wheel. It will quickly turn black. That means it is doing its job. I would recommend just using it. You might or might not be successful in changing the leather. In any case, be prepared to purchase a replacement honing wheel if you remove the leather. Part of the cost of a replacement honing wheel is that it is a low sales volume replacement part.
Enjoy your Tormek. Your enjoyment will be enhanced if you take the time to master some basic functions, like truing the wheel, using the stone grader, and learning how to adjust your technique to get square grinds. Your mileage results may be different. These skills evolved slowly for me. The effort has proven worthwhile.
Keep posting.
Ken
I've been diligent about dumping the water after each use, but it's obvious that the previous owner wasn't. In addition to the rusty nut, the wheel also has a ring of rust along the inside/left surface. My original plan was to not even try it until disk the road when I'm ready to replace the wheel, in case it does break...until you guys started talking about needing to check bearings and keep them greased.
I'll start patiently and carefully attempting to disassemble it occasionally and see what happens, but won't push it
In regards to the honing wheel; yeah, i'm not worried about the color, mine is pitch black again after resurfacing it. I've used leather for stropping plenty in the past. I have about a dozen hanging strops for my straight razors, different types of leather from various makers, and a few I've made myself. Those don't use compounds, just a bit of neatsfoot oil to keep the leather conditioned.
But for my kitchen knives and chisels i have paddle strops with various compounds on them. Buffing compounds and jeweler's rouges...no matter what color they start out, they all end up black in the end lol
No, the reason I'm planning to replace it just has to do with the damage mentioned earlier. There was a nasty gouge in the leather when I got it...I don't think it was caused by it being turned the wrong direction, looked more like something got pushed up against it and dug in... But, at any rate, ending it back down to almost smooth has left me with pretty thin leather...and i can still feel it a bit during use.
I've accepted the fact that I may screw it up and have to replace it, but I'm still going to try. I don't believe volume of sales should effect the price of an item unless it's the only item you sell....but either way, pricing issues aside, I'm just not a fan of the whole disposable mentality we have today. Too many things are made to just be replaced when a little effort could be made to repair them to like new condition.
It's why a large portion of my hand tools are much older than me, i get more enjoyment out of bringing a tool back to life than from buying something shiny and new
I think at this point I'm fairly confident with the truing tool and the stone grader already, between the infidel flattening of the stone, the nightmare i had with the one hss skew, and the complete reprofiling of 2 spindle gouges, i got quite a bit of practice with them pretty early on lol
Will continue working towards those perfectly square edges
All in all though, i'm very happy to say that I'm finding the learning curve to be fairly quick on this, compared to learning to grind some of these things freehand on other grinders.
The jigs may be a bit fiddly, but they really are a godsend... Especially that gouge jig. Sooo much easier than freehanding a fingernail grind. I'm loving the consistent, smooth results off that thing!!
Kavik, I wouldn't clean the leather in hot water, either. I scrape the crud off with a putty knife. This is also the remedy when the leather has been over-oiled.
If you see no slop in the shaft, the bearings are probably not worn. But they do need to be lubricated. You can remove the main shaft while it's still attached to the grindstone. You may have to chisel away some rusted crud from around the shaft where it passes through the bearing on the wet (grindstone) side of the machine.
The main function of the leather wheel is removal of the burr, in my opinion. Polishing the bevel is its secondary purpose as far as I'm concerned.
I second what Ken said about experience with the stone grader. You need to apply a lot of force for a lot of time. Sometimes the grindstone gets clogged with swarf and you have to apply the edge of the stone grader. After a while the edges will get rounded over, and the fine side will develop a concave shape. These are part of the break-in, as far as I'm concerned, and make it work better.
Watch the YouTube videos made by Jeff Farris. He is the Tormek guru, former owner of SharpToolsUSA, and former moderator of this forum. You will find many of his informative posts here on this forum. This forum's search feature seems rather lame until you put it in advanced mode.
Herman, looks like your avatar is another victim of Photobucket. :o
Thanks Hernan, I'll look Jeff up on YouTube :)
(edit: oh yeah, i'd got a bunch of his videos bookmarked already, i just forgot his name lol)
And, yeah... R.I.P. To your avatar lol
Kavik,
Your post gave me a good laugh. Your struggle with the skew and spindle gouge reshaping and resulting fluency with the truing tool was exactly the way (struggle) I had becoming fluent with the truing tool. It was frustrating (very frustrating!), but has proved to be a useful learning experience.
I have concluded that the Tormek is an excellent tool for resharpening and a slow (but workable for the very patient) tool for reshaping. I use a different path than the recommended Tormek BGM-100 and dry grinder. The inexpensive way is to modify an eight inch Norton 3X grinding wheel, either the 46 or 80 grit version. This is not ideal, however, it grinds quickly. I consider it a cost effective alternative for occasional use. It preserves the Tormek wet grind, cool, dust and spark free controlled work environment.
My preferred method is to use my Tormek wet or dry with a D-Way CBN grinding wheel. Either the 80 or 180 grit works very well. With the 12 mm reducing bushing, these wheels are "plug and play" with the Tormek. I also have a D-Way eight inch 180 grit CBN wheel which works on the T7/8 and works very well on its intended Tormek, the T4.
CBN wheels do not glaze. During my continuous five minute tests, both the Norton and the CBN wheels cut throughout the tests. I recommend using Honerite Gold with the water to prevent rust of the steel wheel and bushing. The CBN wheels run cool wet or dry.
Reshaping a turning gouge took just a couple minutes. For me, that is fast enough not to be frustrating and slow enough to be very controlled.
I have not tried it, however, I am convinced that Tormek plus CBN is the ideal method for sharpening planer blades.
Keep learning and posting.
Ken
Ken,
A nice CBN wheel would be ideal, and if i didn't already have the grinder and the Norton wheel that's the route I'd take.
But being that I do already have all that, the BGM-100 is going to make more sense for me. With the added benefit that it will gain me a second universal support, one with the micro adjust feature that I don't have currently.
Reshaping the gouge on the tormek wheel wasn't nearly as hard as the skew, and didn't take me long... Just left me having to do a lot of truing when I was done. It's gonna take a bit more practice combining the motion of rotating the jig while at the same time keeping the tool moving across the surface to keep from wearing grooves
Kavik,
Your thinking is quite logical. In your case you already have the dry grinder, and the kit would give you a support with microadjust. I find the microadjust essential with truing and useful for many applications.
I highly recommend the Tormek Turning Information Box. It combines a book written by Torgny Jansson, inventor of the Tormek (literally the "Tor" in Tormek) with a DVD by Jeff Farris. The information is quite solid and practical.
Ken
Thanks for another fine tip Ken. I didn't realize that could be bought separate from the kit, but I found it and added it to my Amazon wishlist :)
Knowledge is power. You won't be disappointed.
Ken
How about using an impact wrench to get that nut off?
Joe,
I would give penetrating oil a few days a try first. That was also the recommendation from Sweden the last time this issue surfaced.
The ideal long term solution is a replacement EZYlock stainless steel shaft. Not only is it stainless steel, the EZYlock feature is very convenient.
Ken
I made that upgrade. Very worthwhile investment!
Rich
Quote from: Kavik on August 07, 2017, 03:38:18 PMIt's gonna take a bit more practice combining the motion of rotating the jig while at the same time keeping the tool moving across the surface to keep from wearing grooves
Ha ! Good luck. I've been using a Tormek for 15 years and still do that when I sharpen a lot on gouges.
As Ken says, the grindstone is an item that just has to be replaced.
Rich.
Rich,
I think gouges are particularly hard on keeping a wheel true. If I was turning, I would keep the truing tool close at hand for light cuts. Keep the wheel true.
I do not notice grooves when I take very light half number cuts and advance the cutter very slowly, at least 120 seconds across.
In my statement about grinding wheels being consumable, I compared them to brake shoes on a car. Both wear down over a very long period. I have 100,000 miles on my original brakes. (I drive carefully like most seniors.) I doubt most Tormek users wear out their first grinding wheel. I would rather increase the wear on my grinding wheel slightly and improve the trueness greatly.
Ken
Yeah, my gut tells me an impact gun isn't a wise idea around a fragile sharpening stone
Quote from: RichColvin on August 08, 2017, 03:41:30 AMHa ! Good luck. I've been using a Tormek for 15 years and still do that when I sharpen a lot on gouges.
Lol thanks for sharing that Rich, good to know it wasn't
entirely down to just being a sloppy beginner ;D
Quote from: Ken S on August 08, 2017, 04:35:49 AM
I would rather increase the wear on my grinding wheel slightly and improve the trueness greatly.
Yup, I'm perfectly comfortable with that mindset
Quote from: Ken S on August 08, 2017, 04:35:49 AMI would rather increase the wear on my grinding wheel slightly and improve the trueness greatly.
When a grindstone first begins to go out of round, it actually saves wear on it if you true it up right away. If you wait, it will get further out of round. This is easy to think about if you imagine an egg-shaped grindstone. A tool will rise twice per rotation and rise twice per rotation. When it's at its lowest point it will begin to dig in harder as it starts to rise, removing material from that quadrant of the circle, but when it gets to the highest point it stop digging in so much. It just gets more and more out of round faster the more it's out of round!
You will then have an unusable grindstone until you true it up, and when you do true it up you will remove lats of material.
Keep your grindstone round. It will last longer.
Your comment about the driver habits of seniors reminds me of the stories I heard about my grandfather's driving when I was a youngster. He drove around town with one foot on the gas, the other on the brakes. The brake lights were always on and the brakes were always wearing out.
I think of frequent truing in terms of a bar graph. The horizontal axis is time. The vertical axis is the precision of grinding. The graph begins at the top left corner, with a freshly trued wheel. The line moves to the right as we use the grinding wheel. It also starts moving downward as the wheel gradually, through use, starts to become untrue. The downward slope increases as the wheel continues to wear.
At a certain point, we retrue the wheel, and the line continues moving to the right, but returns to the top of the chart.The cycle repeats. Those with more math skill than I have can calculate the average level of grinding precision throughout the cycles.
If we restart the graph, again with a freshly trued grinding wheel, the line will again begin the same downward slope. This time we retrue the wheel more frequently, with very light cuts. This time, the graph will continue moving to the right, as before. The difference is that the vertical reading will reset to 100%. When the efficiency over the entire time period is calculated, the average cutting precision will be considerably higher.
I have become a believer in frequent, light retruing. I do not believe this frequent light truing will cause any more .wheel wear than waiting until major truing is necessary.
Once learned well, retruing is very fast and controlled. Light cuts!
Ken
Well, i got bored with work today and instead decided to dig into my tormek some more (work at home day 8))
And, surprisingly enough, I managed to remove the wheels without too much fanfare!
Bearings are sold, no slop whatsoever.
Only issues were the obvious rust which had built up on the threads on the water side and slightly distorted the washers on either side of the wheel (i didn't post about this before because I was pretty sure I knew the cause and didn't want you all wasting your time writing up suggestions, but the wheel did have just the slightest side to side wobble originally)
Spent a few minutes flattening the washers with a diamond plate and cleaning up the threads with a brass wire brush, as well as brushing the surface on the wheel where the washers mate up to it
Greased up the shaft and reassembled everything, and she's now running dead straight ;D
On my way to go pick up my son, but will true up the wheel again when I get home and then should be golden.
(Yes, I'm still planning to get the stainless shaft kit, but this will do me for the time being)
This is one thing I like about the Tormek... mine is over a decade old... I've been a bit 'neglectful' in maintenance... yet it has never caused me any issues. (I am better now). :) Everytime I fire it up... it's good to go.
Good points, gentlemen.
Upgrading the shaft on my first T7 was a learning experience for me. First, I was pleasantly surprised with the quality of the EZYlock shaft. There was no reason to expect anything except first-rate quality, but it was satisfaction to have my beliefs verified.
It was also interesting to see how many of the parts looked like off the shelf metric hardware. In my opinion, this is smart engineering. Use standard parts where posdible and put the quality cost where it really counts.
The Tormek has always seemed like a fairly simple machine to me. Well engineered and manufactured, but simple and rugged. Look at the number of venerable old SuperGrinds still in regular service. What is especially impressive is that most of them have not been babied. The Leica camera company had a sales slogen, "quality is remembered long after price is forgotten."
Ken
Quote from: Kavik on August 10, 2017, 09:56:40 PM
(Yes, I'm still planning to get the stainless shaft kit, but this will do me for the time being)
As long as you're diligent about emptying the water trough between uses, and you're not interested in the tool-free grindstone removal feature, and you're careful to keep the main shaft clean and lubricated, I see no need to upgrade. The only reason I did was because I bent mine trying to remove a rusted-on grindstone. I was simply negligent in keeping the main shaft clean and lubricated, and emptying the water trough.
Keep in mind, though, that I'm always reluctant to upgrade. I modified my Universal Support to add a home-made micro adjust and still get by with the older style truing tool. It's probably overly frugal of me to not get the new truing tool, but I get by because I'm not a professional sharpener, just a hobbyist.
Hmmm, am interesting opinion to consider Herman, I'll keep it in mind, thanks :)
I upgraded my truing tool and can tell you the new one works quite a bit better.
Quote from: RichColvin on August 12, 2017, 01:45:13 AM
I upgraded my truing tool and can tell you the new one works quite a bit better.
I think I remember you mentioning this before. Ever since then I've really wanted to upgrade, but it's hard for me to justify the cost. It's not that I don't have the money, it's just the cheapskate in me! ;)
The truing tool is one thing I'm still getting frustrated with.... I'll get half way through the wheel with no problem, then the other half chatters so much it leaves patterns in the wheel, forcing me to take another pass and waste more stone :(
I've tried going lighter passes, deeper passes, faster, slower.... Can't figure out what the common denominator is when it decides to do it and when it decides to work fine
Quote from: Kavik on August 12, 2017, 02:44:29 AM
The truing tool is one thing I'm still getting frustrated with.... I'll get half way through the wheel with no problem, then the other half chatters so much it leaves patterns in the wheel, forcing me to take another pass and waste more stone :(
I've tried going lighter passes, deeper passes, faster, slower.... Can't figure out what the common denominator is when it decides to do it and when it decides to work fine
You might take a look at this thread... has some tips that could help.
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1353.0
Thanks cb... Unfortunately that thread kinda died out, but I'll try the suggestion about rotating the cutting rod next time I use it
Thanks for posting the link, CB. That thread is typical of Jeff Farris' experienced advice. I had not remembered his suggestion of grinding from the outside inward with the truing tool. It makes sense. I will true that direction in the future.
I believe the goal should be a very smooth grinding surface while learning. I generally move the tool at the recommended very slow rate. I also make the first few passes light enough to just touch the highest spot on the wheel, lowering only a fraction of a microadjust number with succeeding passes until the last pass lightly touches the entire wheel circumference the entire width.
Do this slowly. Speed will soon arrive with practice.
Keep posting until you have mastered this. I suspect modt of the silent majority of our members and guests are not comfortable with truing. This is unfortunate. Truing is a skill readily mastered with some focused practice. Your learning time will make every sharpening session time better. Fortune favors those brave enough to learn.
Ken
The older truing tool seemed to me to be more difficult to control. Before moving to the new tool, I was reluctant to true the wheel mainly as I was never able to master the old tool, and thusly the grinding wheel never got a smooth finish. I disliked the old one so much that I gave it to the Tormek historian (Ken Schroeder). Haven't heard if he has tried it or not.
With the new one (TT-50), it is very easy to take controlled, light, and even strokes. It leaves the stone flat with very light truing ridges that can easily be cleaned up with the stone grader. But I didn't realize the difference until I got the new one.
If you have an older truing tool and want to upgrade, you can get the new one without the diamond tip (TT-50U vs. TT-50), and transfer the diamond tip from the older tool. That will save you $20-25. (And indeed, it is the route I took).
Oh, and by the way, I can't imagine truing my Japanese wheel with the older tool !!
Good luck,
Rich
I do have the new version (tt-50), and while looking at this design over the old one it seems a million times better of a design... but I've noticed a few things while working on it tonight that seem to make it less than consistent sometimes
The first (worst) being the amount of play between the top plate and the box the cutter sits in, for lack of a better term. I assume this is too allow a very minor angle change so that the diamond bit will rest correctly on the curved wheel... But in practice it seems to be this slop that allows the tool to jump so much when the vibrations start.
The second is that the "fork" on the side that locks it in place against the vertical rod on the USB isn't a very snug fit. This may very well be nothing at all, but it does change the angle by a degree or two depending how you set it. So I've just taken to setting it so that it's set tight to the rod in the direction the wheel turns, so it relies less on the locking screw to hold tight
And lastly, the threaded rod itself is not the heaviest duty rod in the world, and doesn't take a whole lot of pressure to flex. This one is most likely insignificant during a "good cut", but i imagine it doesn't help once vibrations start
Based on the advice in the other thread i tried rotating the cutter head a bit... Helped some, but not completely.
But then I remembered I read somewhere someone suggested taking out the slop I mentioned in the first issue above. So I grabbed what was handy, a thin cardstock tag from a pair of shoes I just bought, folded it in half, and slid it in between the top plate and the box that holds the cutter, placed horizontally along the whole length on the side side the threaded rod, and tested the movement. Side to side still moved good, with just a little more resistance, but up and down movement was eliminated, unless I put excessive pressure on it.
Put it all together and took 3 real light cuts at a speed around 90 seconds (moving from the outside of the wheel to the inside) and it cut flawlessly! Never even hinted that it was tempted to chatter ;D
I'll be looking for a more permanent fix for something to insert there and eliminate that gap now....was a world of difference, i'd suggest it to anyone with similarly bad experiences
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on August 12, 2017, 02:09:44 AM
Quote from: RichColvin on August 12, 2017, 01:45:13 AM
I upgraded my truing tool and can tell you the new one works quite a bit better.
I think I remember you mentioning this before. Ever since then I've really wanted to upgrade, but it's hard for me to justify the cost. It's not that I don't have the money, it's just the cheapskate in me! ;)
Herman,
I believe there is some inner cheapskate in all of us. There certainly is in me. I may sound like a broken record Tormek cheerleader in recommend that beginners purchase a new Tormek, generally of the latest model. The issue is not money. The problem is that most beginners do not have a friend or family member to serve as their coach. If I had had such a coach, I would most probably be happily buzzing along with a well tuned ancient SuperGrind Lacking such a coach, I purchased a new T7, the flagship at the time, and essentially taught myself how to use it, with help from the forum.
Based on my own learning experience and the posts of many new users, I have become convinced that having a new, under warranty Tormek eliminates many bumps along the kearning curve. There are enough skills to learn to bevome a proficient Tormek sharpener without the gremlins of an older machine.
Sooner or later, we must face most of these gremlins. However, I believe we are better prepared to meet them if we have first mastered the Tormek basics. I would argue that this train of thought also works with both your small platform and my kenjig. Using your small platform reduces the stress of sharpening small knives. (It is certainly not limited to small knives.) We still have to learn to hold the knife and grind. Your small platform jig eliminates the tedium of trying to set up small knives. In the case of my kenjig, we still have to grind properly. What we can bypass is the tedium of using the Anglemaster with knives.
The moral of this story for beginners is to ask lots of questions. If you have an experienced relative or neighbor, you are indeed fortunate. If not, by all means ask questions on the forum. We are here to help, and we have all been beginners. Whether you choose to go new or used, do so well informed. Know the proper price. Know which jigs are improved. Know how critical or not so critical some of the new models are. There is a lot of overpriced stuff for sale, both new and older, online. Beware, but, more importantly, be smart and informed.
Ken
With all this "truing" talk :) ... it made me take a close look at my stone. I keep it in pretty good shape using a DMT XXC stone (braced against a USB... works pretty good, at least for knife sharpening), but had a couple of spots a bit out of whack... so decided to use the Truing Tool (old version), and clean it up a bit.
Worked fine, but wanted to point out that after truing and grading the stone fine, I remarked the stone with the angle markings... but noted that the old markings were still faintly visible (see attached pic... also made the marks a bit more accurate). Thought it was a good indicator that if the stone is kept in decent shape... very little material is actually removed in the truing/grading process... (it seems like a lot in the water :o ). (I'm sure a bit of Sharpie soaks in... but doubt it's very much). Just thought it was an interesting observation.
Quote from: Kavik on August 12, 2017, 02:44:29 AMCan't figure out what the common denominator is when it decides to do it and when it decides to work fine
The Universal Support is held in place by two sleeves that are mounted in the body of the machine. Are those sleeves securely mounted? The reason I ask is because it sounds like you have an alignment problem that is intermittent.
Interesting point, Herman.
I do not believe I have encountered any sleeve alignment problems with my T7. However, Tormek eliminated that possibility when they redesigned the cast and machined zinc housing on the T4 and, later, the T8. Was there an alignment problem, or did the Tormek design team just decide to tighten up the alignment? I don't know, but I have a gut feeling that the machined zinc top may actually be a more major advancement than the new water trough.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on August 14, 2017, 12:51:02 AM
I do not believe I have encountered any sleeve alignment problems with my T7.
Me, either. But we didn't buy our machines used. There's no way to know if that machine had ever been dropped or had something heavy land on it.
You make a good point there Herman, but yes, both the vertical and horizontal more both seem rock solid. And i see no indication of damage to the mounts, or anywhere else on the body of the machine
I actually ended up using the tt50 a couple of times again today while reprofiling another skew chisel (the bgm100 is on order, so i can start doing this on the other grinder soon), and I'm happy to report that the fix i mentioned above, of closing the gap above the cutter head, has continued to work for me :)
Several years ago, Ionut, a very experienced forum member, posted about the gap. His solution was to place an electrical cable tie through the hole in the TT-50. He posted a lengthy explanation.
I had not experienced this difficulty, however, as I regard Ionut highly, I placed a cable tie on my TT-50. It eliminated the gap. I had the tie on for several years before removing it. For me, the TT-50 seems to work with or without the tie. If I ever encounter the difficulty, my first line of defense will be to place a tie.
Ken
Nice, I'll see if I have any of those of the right thickness, thanks!
Quote from: Ken S on August 14, 2017, 12:31:28 PM
Several years ago, Ionut, a very experienced forum member, posted about the gap. His solution was to place an electrical cable tie through the hole in the TT-50. He posted a lengthy explanation.
I had not experienced this difficulty, however, as I regard Ionut highly, I placed a cable tie on my TT-50. It eliminated the gap. I had the tie on for several years before removing it. For me, the TT-50 seems to work with or without the tie. If I ever encounter the difficulty, my first line of defense will be to place a tie.
Ken
Here's the ionut post I believe...
https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1077.0
(I usually track down referenced posts to learn more... figure might as well post 'em if I find 'em). :)
Appreciated cbwx! I thought that was sn L, not an i... So was having trouble finding it lol
Ionut demonstrated the Tormek in Western Canada. His ideas were thoughtful and innovative. I miss his posts.(He has still living, however, he has moved on to other interests.) I learned things from his experience.
Ionut made 209 posts. I have often recommended studying Jeff Farris' posts, and do so myself. I also tecommend studying Ionut's posts.
Ken
Incidentally, Ionut is a Romanian first name.