Hey, just kind of a dumb question: Is it normal for the leather honing wheel to wobble on the order of ~1/8" from side to side in use? I was playing with a Tormek at Woodcraft in Seattle today, and noticed that its honing wheel did not do so. I just figured it was normal. Annoying, but normal. Has anyone else noticed this?
This is not a dumb question at all. The honing wheel has three alignment nubs which fit into the drive wheel. Try loosening the honing wheel and rotating it. Keep one hand on the honing wheel while rotating it and the other hand on the grinding wheel preventing it from turning. If the pins are not in their sockets, you will feel when they drop in. If you are very lucky, you can just retighten the honing wheel and be good to go. (Power cord is unplugged during these tests, of course.)
The drive wheel is aligned with the same pin and socket arrangement. Check it the same way.
This would be an opportune time to do the annual regreasing of the shaft bushings.
If these basic measures do not correct your situation, email Tormek support (support@tormek.se). Please keep posting whether your problem is quickly resolved or not.
Ken
Probably similar to many store displays. Not assembled correctly due to time, safety issues (don't want things sticking out in aisles), or people playing with them.
I understood the post to imply that his personal Tormek had the wobbly honing wheel and that the store demo unit did not. Is this correct, and were you able to correct the wobble?
SADW, unfortunately I must agree with you about the less than optimal condition of demo units in stores. Since my active tool buying days are long over, I do not frequent tool stores as I once did. When I do, I check out the Tormek displays but am usually oblivious to other power tool demo units. I would describe most of the store units I have seen as "neglected", as opposed to either printine or abused. I would consider purchasing a store demo unit, however, I would expect a discounted price compared with the price of a new, pristine unit. These demo units should clean up and function as new, however, if I have to do the cleanup, it seems fair to be compensated for my labor..
Ken
You are correct, Ken. My personal unit has the wobble, the store unit ran perfectly straight.
No, I have not been thus far, but I *have* been able to identify the source. The drive wheel appears to have been bored incorrectly. The shaft is running perfectly true, at least to the naked eye. My inspection method was simple but should be effective to within a few thousandths. I put a laser-printed grid of very fine horizontal lines on a .5mm spacing on the desk below it, and rested my chin on the corner of my laser case to watch it rotate against the background of the lines. There was no visible displacement at all, so I would judge that the runout is less than .003 on the shaft. I can get a more precise reading with my dial indicator if it becomes an issue. The drive wheel, however, is displaying the exact same wobble as the honing wheel as it runs on the shaft. Which leads me to believe that perhaps the shaft bore isn't cut perfectly perpendicular to the face of the drive wheel that the honing wheel rides on?
There is no variation in the wobble between each of the three possible orientations of the honing wheel, so I suspect the honing wheel is itself straight and true. I'm actually working on a really simple solution right now, that I'll give a shot later this weekend: I'm going to laser-cut some cardstock spacers to fit around the lugs on the honing wheel, and use them to counter the displacement on the drive wheel. Should just artificially square it with the drive shaft.
I read through your prior posts. Just to make sure I have the facts straight, are we talking about the T8? Or, if we are talking about a T7, it should be under the 7+3 year warranty. Or, if you happen to have two Tormeks, does the wobble follow if you swap drive wheels and/or honing wheels.
If your Tormek is under warranty, Tormek should repair or replace the problem part(s). I suggest you contact Tormek support (support@tormek.se) or your national importer. You can find that information on Tormek's website.
You seem like you have some machine shop background. If you have a dial indicator and place it on your shaft, it will tell the tale if your shaft is bent. If your T8 fell with enough force to chip the grinding wheel, it might have bent the shaft, also.
Do contact support, and do keep us posted.
Ken
We are indeed talking a T8, purchased as a "Like New Open Box" from Amazon. The stone showed no sign that it had ever been mounted on the shaft, and the shaft still had the protective sleeve on it when I received the unit, so along with my quick check, I'm reasonably sure the shaft isn't bent. I'll dial-indicator it this afternoon anyway, just to be sure.
I guess what I was doing with this thread is just establishing if I have something that's "normal and expected" from the unit, or if I'm looking at something I *should* contact support about.
Thanks, Ken!
I would be very surprised if your shaft is bent. However, if you have a dial indicator and the skill to use it, you can easily rule out the shaft as a culprit......no doubts.
Tormek stands solidly behind its warranty. I have had personal one on one conversations with both Stig of Tormek and Rick of Affinity Tool, the US importer. Both were adament in their stalwart support of the Tormek warranty. One of the things I value about Tormek is that the Tormek wet grinders are their only product. No metal lathes, drills or washing machines. As such, their success or failure depends on satisfied customers. They wisely realized that informed customers are satisfied customers. That is why they have the handbook, tech support, this forum, and videos.
Do not be shy about posting questions here or contacting support. Stig and his support team are eager to help. (support@tormek.se)
Ken
Took a couple absolutely terrible videos, freehand cellphone, sorry, but they do show the wobble fairly well. The one with the honing wheel has it oriented into the set of holes that wobble the least.
https://youtu.be/ZEgZLmdecgY
https://youtu.be/Tmg9fHMhWuA
The videos tell the tale. Contact support (support@tormek.se) to get the ball rolling.
I have not needed to use warranty repair service personally, however, I have discussed the procedure with both Stig and Rick of Affinity Tool, the US importer who normally handles repairs in my country.
I am quite confident Tormek will do right by you.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Hi,
We have been in contact and we will sort this out of course.
In general an email to our support is always faster handeled than to be noticed by us on the Forum.
Best, Stig
I agree with Stig. The forum is not a substitute for support.
Ken
I most heartily agree, and if I was fully convinced from the outset that I actually had an out-of-standard condition, I would most likely have contacted them directly. However, without knowing if that was actually something that's just normal operation (the part is stamped, after all, and stamped parts often have some degree of irregularity) I would have felt rather foolish contacting the formal support system. That's one of the things I love about forums, you can run your questions off of guys with a lot more experience! :)
The assistance I've received here, and speaking with Stig in the private messages, is moving toward resolving this in a most satisfactory way.
I removed the drive wheel, washer, pin, and spring washer from the drive shaft this evening, and used my dial indicator to check the runout on the shaft while rotating it with a hand on the stone. The shaft displayed a total gauge movement of less than .002", which I would say is within the error margin of my hand-spinning method and the cheap Chinese dial indicator. The shaft, to my inspection, is entirely suitable for use. Which leaves the drive wheel as the culprit, most likely. I could easily take it to work and use the touch-probe CMM to find out the exact amount of non-perpendicularity in the central bore, but that's probably a bit deeper into the weeds than I really need to chase this rabbit. ;D
I've never seen Tormek make sloppy, out of spec parts. They are much better machines than that.
If the shaft is not bent, then something is awry, or possible amiss, or maybe even askew! I suppose it's possible that the wheel could be defective. That happens even with the best of equipment, and if it is I'm sure Tormek will replace it. Tormek always stands behind their machines.
I know you have checked for the obvious, but obviously something is wrong. That's a lot of wobble. It sounds like the shaft is not bent, so, obviously, something is up with the wheel or the way it is seating on the shaft.
It will be interesting to hear what you discover.
Sorry, I swapped what you said in my brain earlier.
I will be interested to know what this is determined to be, as I would first be pulling it off to make sure it was on proper, or that there was no wobble from the motor pushing the wheel (highly unlikely, it would have to have not been screwed down I would think for that). Then put the wheel on a flat surface to check it, and on and on to find the culprit.
Part of me is thinking, the sold Open Box like new, makes me wonder if it was in the original box, and if the box was damaged or dropped on that one side to affect the wheel. (damage or drop packaging and open to check the stone condition only)
Komidadjie, please post the rest of the story after all is resolved. I have no doubt that Tormek will give you solid service; I am just curious to learn the cause.
Ken
Definitely will! They're sending me a new drive wheel, since that seems to be the culprit here. It would take very, VERY little variation in the boring of that central hole in the casting to cause the wobble, just a fraction of a degree would be enough with that amount of lever arm for it to act over. It will be interesting to see how the new wheel does. I'd put money on it being a total solution.
Komitadgie,
Any company may have an occasional problem with one of its products. I believe the true measure of a company is how it handles that problem. Tormek has once again stepped up to the plate and done the right thing. I expected nothing less. Your videos clearly showed a wobbly drive wheel, and your posts indicated that you have mechanical skills. I think sending you a new drive wheel was the logical choice. It will restore service more quickly than having you ship your Tormek back and, you have remained in service, wobbling along, but still functioning, during repairs.
When the redesigned zinc drive wheels became available, I purchased one (as a spare part) for my T7. There was nothing wrong with my older drive wheel; I just like to keep current with Tormek improvements. While the older plastic drive wheel worked very well, the new zinc drive wheel is really impressive. It looks very solid!
I look forward to your future posts as you become a happy Tormeker.
Ken
Ken,
Does the zinc wheel work on the T-2000?
Kind regards,
Rich
Yes. It will fit all Tormek models with 250mm diameter grinding wheels.
Ken
It looks to me like the drive wheel itself is the problem. Remove it and lay it on a flat surface such as the top of a table saw. I bet it doesn't lie flat, but instead rocks on the surface like a bent coin would. This then causes the honing wheel to wobble because it mounts to the face of that bent drive wheel.
My guess is that the machine was dropped and landed on the drive wheel, bending it. But if it was doing that when it came new out of the box then it must have been bent somewhere during manufacturing, packaging, or shipping.
I have had two items (a dishwasher and a compressor) damaged in shipping. Now, if I receive a delivered item with any damage to the shipping box I don't even bother opening the box. I just return it for a replacement.
Excellent point, Herman.
My Tormek Work Station arrived with a damaged (probably dropped) box. I noticed it even before it was off the truck. I should have refused it. My work station has a dented top lip. I pounded it out with a hammer ans a block of wood. It is functional. If it was a scratch and dent special at a reduced price, it would have been fine. For a brand new purchased item, it should not have been damaged. My failt for accepting the package.
Do not accept delivery of damaged boxes.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on June 05, 2017, 01:50:20 PM
I should have refused it.
I don't know if that's an option. I suspect the deliverer would just tell you that you need to contact the vendor to schedule a return.
I should have overcome my resistance due to the size and weight of the package and insisted on an undamaged package.
Ken
HAH. If I refused delivery of all damaged boxes, I'd never get *anything* I ordered online.
Point well taken. I do think we would have fewer damaged products if manufacturers believed we were willing to do more assembly. Primarily, I think more careful packaging would help. Free shipping should not mean cheaper, inadequate packaging.
Ken
Agreed. It seems that shipping companies have been becoming more and more carelessly rough with packages, to the tune that conventional cardboard boxes and styrofoam, unless VERY carefully designed, simply aren't enough to protect something with any weight. I've had a number of things delivered in totally unusable condition that I've had to deal with shipping back. The packaging was entirely suitable for handling, it's the same packaging you'd find in Lowes, etc, that survived being trucked to their store just fine. But give it to USPS/UPS? Wrecked.
How does your new drive wheel work? (Quite well, I hope.)
Decades ago in the film camera era, the owner of my favorite photo shop offered three film and print processing choices. Some customers preferred the cheapest cost; some wanted the fastest; and a few, like me, wanted quality. (Eastman Kodak back then) I do not see the shipping situation getting better until we customers get over the market created "free shipping" fetish and demand quality.
Ken
Hasn't showed up yet, if FedEx is to be believed, it'll be mid-next-week some time. :)
I think the biggest problem there is that the major shippers have reached a parity of incompetence. They *all* smash your packages, lie about delivery dates, leave notes when there ARE people home, etc. There's really no competition, because hey, that guy can get away with it, so why can't we?
I think the real lesson of this topic is to contact Tormek support (support.tormek.se) right away when you notice or suspect a machine problem. By all means, post on the forum, also. We always try to be helpful, however, it is Tormek support which actually starts the repair process. In this case, your Tormek would already working properly.
Ken
Probably a good point, Ken. The new wheel arrived today, and I popped it right on. Problem solved! The wheel tracks dead-center now, no wobble I can detect at all with the naked eye. 8)
Thank you very much for the assistance, Stig!
I am pleased. You did the right thing to question the wobbly wheel. This topic has been a valuable learning experience for me as moderator and frequent poster. Tormek is outstanding in supporting its product and warranty, however, if we do not contact them, or delay in contacting them, that fine service will be delayed. From now on, my replies for similar topics will include a recommendation to immediately contact support (support@tormek.se).
Incidentally, if any of you have the opportunity to meet Stig, please do so. I have enjoyed several informal meetings with Stig. Without fail, our meetings have been enjoyable and informative. You can get a good glimpse of Stig in his online interview with Stumpy Nubs, as well as some in depth information about the Tormek. (google "stumpy nubs/tormek)
Ken
This thread has made me wonder if I've put up with a faulty drive wheel all these 15 years. There has always been slippage during the first few minutes of use. And there is always an audible wha-wha noise at the same frequency as the machine's rotation. That is, I think the drive wheel may be out of round, with perhaps a divot or bump at one place on the edge.
The newer drive wheels are made of metal instead of plastic and perhaps the new ones are less likely to have these types of problems.
Herman,
Have you tried cleaning the rubber wheel with sandpaper?
Incidentally, I think the use of zinc instead of plastic in the new drive wheel gives it a much more solid feel, however, in my opinion, the real improvement is in the new Tormek patented rubberlike compound. It grips better. The inner physicist in you might be curious to try it! :)
Ken
Ken, yes the sandpaper helps but doesn't eliminate the problem.
My inner Yankee thrift is the only thing stopping me from buying a new drive wheel. ;)
Herman,
As a thrifty old Yankee, I certainly understand. If you should actually break down and purchase a new drive wheel, I promise I won't spill the beans to your family.
Ken
The last couple of days there's been no whaa-whaa noise. I think maybe when my Tormek sits idle for days, weeks, or months the drive wheel develops a "dent" where it's been resting against the drive shaft. This dent may also explain the slippage I get when the machine has first started running. That, too, has been absent the last few days. For the last week or two I've been using the machine more than usual, so that may explain why there's not time for the dent to develop.
Is there a handy way to leave the drive wheel lifted away from the drive shaft when the machine is not being used?
Herman, your Tormek may start to resemble the car in the Johnny Cash song about the factory worker who brings parts home in his lunchbox. :)
The latest drive wheels are much improved. Some of the modifications are to compensate for rough shipping, however, the new Tormek patented rubber like improved gripping substance is a real step forward. A new drive wheel should fix your problem.
My inner thrifty Yankee came up with an idea. It's too early to venture down to my shop without awakening my household, so this is untested. As I recall, the weight of the motor holds the motor shaft against the drive wheel. Pre T8 Tormeks have open bottoms. A simple wooden device similar to the flat tool with a handle the drywall guys use to hold mud could prop up the motor slightly. (a hawk?) Let the Tormek on it with the "handle" part raising the motor. If it doesn't work, just recycle the two pieces if scrap wood and screw.
Ken