Hi all - I have an old supergrind 2000 with some issues and i wondering if i should fix or just purchase new:
1. The stone has cracked into 5 pieces (an initial crack and rough handling destroyed it!)
2. The nut holding the stone is "rusted" on and prior to destruction of the stone, the machine would run for a bit and then "stall". I suspect the corrosion has gotten into the shaft and bearing areas.
I gather that the new parts will fit on this machine, but i am not a heavy user and wonder if purchasing a new T4 is a smarter move.
Thanks in advance
You need a new stone of course. As for the shaft being rusted, now that the stone is shattered you should be able to remove it from the shaft and remove the shaft from the stand. You can then see if there is rust causing your stall problem. If not, a new stone is cheaper than a new machine. Also, remember my saying when it comes to buying a "cheaper" model. "You can use less of more but you cannot make more from less". You can always look on eBarf at older/ used models and see if the price is right. Just remember you would be buying a machine with no warranty and potential problems. If you are not experienced with on line buying you might better skip that. Good luck.
A new SG-250 grinding wheel should cost $184. An EZYlock kit, which includes new bushings should cost around $66. Don't pay more for ""free" shipping. $250 total.
A new T4 costs $399. That includes the seven year warranty. I suspect your stalling problem can be resolved with five minutes and some sandpaper.
The T4 is a smaller machine, not a lesser machine. I use both sizes.
The choice is yours. Neither choice is a bad move. Whichever way you go, you will need a TT-50, so allow an extra $89 if you don't already have one.
My two cents would lean toward the T4 and selling your present Super Grind as is.
Ken
And, if you add in the US-105 universal support with micro adjust, that's another $48.
$184 - SG-250
66 - EZlock shaft
89 - TT-50
48 - US-105
-------
$387
Thanks for the feedback! I do have the TT-50 accessory. Does the version i have not fit on the T4?
There is only one TT-50. It fits all Tormek models. I consider it a necessity. I forgot about the threaded microadjust universal support. It, also, is a necessity with the TT-50. Some of the forum have threaded their own. The rest of us mortals just buy one.
Incidentally, all the jigs and accessories are interchangeable between the T4 and larger Tormeks. The only exception is the universal support. The 105 for the larger Tormeks is 10mm longer to compensate for the extra 10mm thickness of the SG-250 grinding wheel.
I have never recommended a T4 over a new T7 or T8 based on a cost saving. In that case, I would base my decision on how fixed or portable the Tormek will be. I would pursue your choices carefully. With Tormek, there is no bad choice, just some which might suit your needs better.
Keep asking questions until you feel you have the answers you need.
Ken
Seems to me that if you buy a new stone, you are good to go on a bare bones budget. You have the necessary truing tool. As for the EZ lock shaft, that is wonderful but not necessary. Just take some Teflon tape and that will keep the nut from seizing again. The micro adjust nut is cool but not necessary. I have never used it even though I have it. It is only good for one edge at a time. Just use the black marker method of determining the edge you want ground and you do not need anything else. HOWEVER, the micro adjust nut in conjunction WITH the US 105 is WAY better than what you have. "Ken S" is the "go to" guy on here. Maybe that is why he is the moderator.
My understanding was there was a point where people were buying the Supergrind 2000, and the new owners were being shipped the new microadjustable shaft.
Then there are those on this board who threaded their original shaft. We don't know what tools he uses this for, and turners, probably benefit less from the adjustment, then the setting tool.
I would order the new shaft and wheel. Check the bushings, although mine seemed fine, I replaced them anyway. Grease the bushings and see if with the new stone on it running, if it stalls. If it still does, then try using a bit of sandpaper on the drive wheel.
If you were to sell your 2000, you would want to keep your TT50 and your tools (whatever doesn't come with the T-4), and would have the less duty cycle of the T-4. Personally I believe that without those, our used price, wouldn't bring what you would like.
You should do some detective work with your Super Grind.
A replacement stone, either new or lightly used is a given.
The thread on the older shafts is the standard m12 (12mm diameter metric thread). If you can't remove it, use a nut splitter. These are not expensive, or, a mechanic can do it in a minute. A replacement nut, maybe a hardware store replacement, should be inexpensive. I like the teflon pipe tape idea. This may get you going again for a while, or probably for "the duration", especially if combined with regular maintenance. Frankly, if you choose the rebuild route, I would replace the shaft and be done with it. The new shaft kit includes a new set of nylon bushings.
Sanding the drive wheel will normally restore the stalling problem. This is described in the handbook. Be sure to register your Super Grind online. No warrenty remains, however registration lets you download the latest edition of the handbook. The drive wheel operation is a fairly common, but minor and easily correctable issue.
Thousands of universal supports without microadjusts are in daily use. Microadjust is a convenience, but you can work a little more carefully without it and not miss it.You can set small changes for the TT-50 with the stop collar or the SE 76 or 77 and a couple thicknesses of cardboard. This is not orthodox Tormek technique, but works fine.
On the T4 side: Ignore the 50% duty nonsense. This was an overheating issue with the all plastic housing of the T3. The redesigned zinc top of the T4 corrected the problem. The zinc top works like a radiator and disperses the heat. You, the ooerator, will need a rest long before the T4 does.
Which way to go? For a beginner without an experienced user nearby, I would go with the new T4. Life is simpler that way, just like with cars. For a more experienced and/or more mechanical person, I would replace the grinding wheel and get a replacement shaft kit. Assuming that your motor is good, your rehabbed Super Grind has years of good service left. With a new grinding wheel and a stainless EZYlock shaft, a Super Grind should essentially work like a new Tormek.
I have three Tormeks, all of which happened to be new. I upgraded the shaft in my first T7. In hindsight, I would have been just as happy rebuilding an older model. This does require some patience and effort.
T4 or not T4? I stand by my original recommendation. Go by the use, not the cost. In a permanent setting with plenty of room, go with the larger models. If you move it much, the smaller model is nice.
Keep us posted either way.
Enjot the adventure.
Ken
Hi - I did some more investigating of the issue: I was able to remove the shaft by removing the buffing wheel and hardware and tapping it out lightly with a hammer. The nut is really frozen to the shaft! The nearest bushing looks pretty involved with the corrosion. I suspect this is the root cause of the stalling, but i will inspect the drive side.
Based on all this and the feedback, i've ordered a replacement wheel and EZYLock shaft/bushings. I am confident that this will fix everything.
I've managed my sharpening needs with out the micro adjuster so far, but i will look into it!
Thanks!
Bravo! You will soon be up and running. Do keep us posted.
Ken
Hello,
I just bought a Supergrind 2000 on eBay. The universal support is not threaded, but I want to cut threads in it so I can use a micro adjust nut. Does anyone know what thread size I should use?
Thank you,
Jon
Jon,
Welcome to the forum. The diameter of the US bar legs is 12mm. Either a 12mm or 1/2 x 20 will work. I used the 1/2 x 20 on mine. I believe Herman used the 12mm on his. Because the close spacing of the two legs on the US bar, I used a hex shaped (external shape) die.
Welcome to the forum, Jon. The thread on the universal support for the microadjust is a square cut 12mm. I will check on the pitch later this morning and include it with this post.
The microadjust nut is designed to match this square thread. A standard hex nut will work with a V thread. A hex nut has no numbers, however, each face is the same as one number on the microadjust.
The 1/2" thread should an outside diameter .026" greater than 12mm. I have not cut this thread, however, it seems like a very loose thread.
If you have access to a thread die and skill with it, and, a lean budget, "rolling your own" might be the way to go. If not, a new replacement threaded universal support with microadjust costs around $45 US.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Hey - Just to close out my post, new stone and shaft arrived over the weekend and I am back up and running! I now store the stone off the machine when not in use. Thanks everyone for the help!
That is an awful lot of work. The new nuts and shaft are supposed to be stainless. While stainless will rust, this should be adequate to prevent a seized nut again. Failing that, wrap the threads in Teflon tape, aka plumbers tape and empty the water trough. Natural evaporation is your friend here.
Jeff,
I routinely remove the grinding wheel at the end of a grinding session. Just a little practice with the EZYlock makes this quick and easy. This is especially when using more than one grinding wheel, however, I also believe it is good practice with only one grinding wheel.
I have never felt the need to use plumber's tape with a stainless shaft.I do place a spacer where the grinding wheel would be to keep the shaft from sliding out. A short piece of plastic pipe works fine. If you make up one, do yourself a favor and make up a couple spares.
Ken
Hi RREvans,
With the Ezylock we recomend the same annual service as we had on the older machines without this system. Remove the stone and shaft and check if there is enough grease on the nylon bushings and check the shaft so it looks as it should.
You will not need to remove the stone after every sharpening session.
Best,
Stig
Quote from: Stickan on May 09, 2017, 08:44:41 AM
You will not need to remove the stone after every sharpening session.
Best,
Stig
You heard it here first.
I developed the habit of removing the grinding wheel while I was testing the compatability of 3X and CBN wheels with the Tormek. By that time, my shaft was EZYlock, which does make the process much easier.
I would agree that this is not necessary. I do not feel that it is "an awful lot of work", especially when one becomes fluent with EZYlock. The SG-250 is my go to grinding wheel for my personal sharpening. While leaving the water trough dry and clean at the end of a sharpening session is essential good practice, removing the grinding wheel may be overkill. For me, it is comfortable overkill.
To each his own.
Ken
I do the same as Ken ... but I do it so I can wipe down the machine inside and out.
Rich
Looking after the machinery is always satisfying and understandable. Personally, I am a bit lazy when it comes to this and normaly I take an afternoon in the summer cleaning up the workshop with a couple of cold ones.
Best,
Stig
Stig,
With your work travel schedule, when do you find time to be lazy? :)
Ken
Quote from: RREvans on May 05, 2017, 03:36:56 PM
Based on all this and the feedback, i've ordered a replacement wheel and EZYLock shaft/bushings. I am confident that this will fix everything.
Me. too. The very same thing happened to me and I ended up doing what you did, but the hard way. First I bought a new grindstone. It wobbles because the main shaft was bent so I then had to order the new shaft.
The problem was caused in part by leaving water in the tray after each use. It wicks up into the grindstone and keeps it and the main shaft wet longer. I now try to remember to empty the water tray after each use.
Quote from: jmartin80 on May 07, 2017, 04:06:12 AM
The universal support is not threaded, but I want to cut threads in it so I can use a micro adjust nut. Does anyone know what thread size I should use?
I picked up a 12 mm die at the hardware store along with a matching nut. I don't remember the pitch. I cemented the nut into the plastic cap of a juice bottle for a homemade micro adjust nut. After cutting the threads go over the the entire shaft lightly with a file to knock the tops of the thread ridges off just a bit. This is the poor man's way of making Acme threads! I then flattened the side of the threaded shaft that faces the locking screw. The nut spins on its own after giving it a start.
I just cut my solid shaft off & welded on a ½"-20 threaded rod in its place. For the nut, I used a punch set to mark the six sides as 1 thru 6.
Some notes :
- the ½" rod is 0.010" too big in diameter. I had to use my metal lathe to reduce the rod's diameter
- the 20 threads per inch (US National Course) is a bit more course than the Tormek rod which seems to be a fine thread
- I used two of my XB-100 Horizontal Bases to hold the threaded rod at the right position for welding. My first attempt using a wooden block wasn't successful.
Overall, it is still better than the smooth rod, & only cost me about $8.
I have made several modifications to my Tormek equipment. Some have worked well, others less well. While the two small knife jigs I have made by modifying the platform jig do not work as well as Herman's scissors jig version, I think my kenjigs work very well. My idea of using a second microadjust nut as a locking nut has not proved useful; swapping out the locking screws and nuts on some jigs and the T4 has been beneficial. I suspect a number of us have spare parts from such experiments.
In the case of threading the support bar to create a homemade microadjust, this may be a practical idea if one has the thread taps and the skill to use them. Having a machinist in the family helps, too. For most of us, I believe purchasing a replacement universal support with the microadjust is a more practical solution. The 12mm Acme thread with a flat top is difficult to duplicate.
I feel the threaded support bar is essential for truing the grinding wheel with a minimum of stone removal. I purchased a spare universal support several years ago. There are times when having a second unit is useful. Not every universal support needs to be threaded, although at least one should be.
Ken
I think the micro-adjust is essential when using the SVM-45 knife jig, too. I remember the old days before micro-adjust and we did the final fine adjusting by rotating the handle of the SVM-45. Those threads on the handle wore out and Tormek revised the design. The newer SVM-45 has an o-ring and from what I've read here it doesn't always work well. The threaded handle on my SVM-45 has long ago seized. I just use the micro-adjust to do the final fine tuning of the edge angle.
Of course, having my homemade platform jig I don't use the SVM-45 as much as I used to, but the micro-adjust is essential for the fine adjustment of the platform jig. Without it the platform jig would be very cumbersome to adjust. As it is, I can do it one-handed, leaving the other hand free to hold the knife.
Good points, Herman. Your post (and mine) demonstrate the versatility of the Tormek. As the old ad goes, "different strokes for different folks".
I consider one of your homemade small platform jigs essential for a Tormek sharpener. I also use Tormek's small blade holder in conjunction with the kenjig routine. I use it in conjunction with the SVM-45 for paring knives. I do this to keep the Distance between the universal support and the grinding wheel consistent. This technique allows a farmers market sharpener to go back and forth between knife sizes without needing to change adjustments.
If someone did not mind using two kenjigs, I think using the straight SVM-45 would be more convenient.
If someone was willing to dedicate a reasonable amount of time to learning the skill, I think your platform is probably the fastest method.
I have two SVM-45s, one with the old design, one with the new design. I have not noticed problems with either. I also have older style SVM-100 and 140 jigs. I dedicate a jig to each size knife, so I do very little, if any, length adjustment.
Personally, I think a complete sharpener should be well grounded in the orthodox Tormek methods, as well as fluent with both your small platform and the kenjig.
Incidentally, the new replacement adjustable stop parts fit both design jigs.
I find this an interesting dialogue.
Ken
I believe the standard thread for a 12mm die is 1.5mm. My SG2000 has the first threaded rod that was offered, and I have often wondered about that nut that is on there, I should try the nut from my T-7. My understanding is the rod changed to an acme thread and I don't know if those are always compatible.
I'm puzzled by some of the comments about the thread on the universal support. Looking at my own, bought some years ago as a replacement for the original unthreaded support, it certainly seems to be a standard M12 thread ie 1.75 mm pitch with metric 60 degree thread form. Did the "square-cut" or acme threads referred to above come along later? I can't see any reason why these special threads should have been thought necessary for the microadjust function.
Perhaps a Tormek representative would clarify this?
The acme thread is better locked in place with the locking screws; the solution is even more radical in the Planer Blade Attachment.