My new jig arrived today and I was anxious to try it out. First thing I noticed was the left screw now slides to the right to allow tightening over the left edge of a plane iron or chisel. I believe this is a very good improvement, particularly for narrower edge tools such as chisels. I first tried a 2 3/8 inch original Stanley plane iron which had evolved into a non-square edge. I keep a couple machinists' squares nearby to frequently check this. The cutter came out true and fine although I will finish sharpening on one of several stone systems which I use to finalize the edge with a micro bevel.
I next installed a 2 inch jack plane blade from a plane I recently acquired from the big auction site. My goal here was to wind up with a slightly cambered edge and here was a case where I failed to follow the instructions properly. The instruction sheet called for centering the blade over a centering mark on the jig, thereby removing the benefit of the right side stop. I quit right there and decided I had to get my head on straight and give it another try tomorrow.
My feeling about the cambering feature is that this will take some trial and error to achieve the cambers I'm looking for. That's okay, I have plenty of irons to experiment with.
Initial conclusions are that the sliding left knob really is a major improvement. But if you've learned to live with the SE-76 jig, you may not need to spend the money. If you're still working with the original plane/chisel jig that came with my 2000, the SE-77 may be a good investment. With shipping, the total price was close to $77, same as the model number.
Dakotapix,
I agree about the new adjustable clamping. I believe it may prove to be the most popular improvement with the new SE-77.
I was very pleased with my cambered blades. I always ask if I would purchase the new model if I did not already own the jig, and if I would purchase the new jig if I already owned the older model. For a new purchase, the new designs have always won.
With replacing an older jig or accessory, in my opinion, it depends on the individual tool and how much it is used. The WM-200 Anglemaster, microadjust universal support, and TT-50 seem obvious, no brainer improvements well worth the replacement cost. For a turner, I think the newly redesigned SVD-186 is well worth the imvestment, for several reasons.
I like the new SE-77 Square Edge Jig. I have disclosed that Stig gave me one when he flew to the US to meet with me. (Yes, he also met with the importer and major dealers, too.) In my case, I started with chisels and plane blades with the Tormek and I am a Tormek junkie. I would have purchased the SE-77, just as I purchased two T7s, an EZYlock shaft, and the newer water trough.
However, like you, I would classify the new SE-77 as very nice, but not an obvious immediate replacement for the SE-76. (good candidate for Christmas, birthday of Father's Day)
Ken
I spent a bit more time with the 77 this morning, mainly trying to get the hang of the cambering part of the jig. This time I centered the blade on the marks on the jig as instructed but still had a bit of trouble getting the result I wanted. I understand, though, how it works. I just wish there was a bit more precision to turning the two knobs on the left to control the camber. I find it difficult to make the quarter or half turn adjustments when the lines on the knobs are not equalized. I'll keep at it...
One more session with the new jig this morning and I think I've got it. I marked a Sharpie center line along the original Stanley cutter and positioned it on the center line marked on the jig. This moves the blade away from the right hand stop but can be adjusted with some precision using a small square to line up the blade's edge at 90 degrees to the clamp portion of the jig. After a few adjustments I was able to achieve a decent camber that is suitable for final smooth planing.
Now that I've gone through a few of the adjustments on this jig, I'm pretty happy with it. I've invested fairly heavily in many of the updated jigs since buying my 2000 Tormek, including the SE-76, now the 77, the stainless shaft, new diamond dresser, the water trough and the revolving stand. My one big annoyance is not being able to solve the accumulation of water in the base no matter how carefully I raise or lower the water trough.
Dakotapix,
The water problem is an easy fix. SADW's turkey baster idea really works well. It is a great four dollar fix! I have used it with both the T4 and the T7. I will try it with the new T8; I believe it will improve even the latest and greatest. The baster I bought holds an ounce (28ml). Around six draws almost empties the Tormek water trough. The end needs to fit between the grinding wheel and the end of the water trough.
I have made very temporary position locators on the camber screws with little triangles of tape. I think it helps by giving a point of reference. It is a work still in progress.
I think you haveinvested wisely.
Ken
I simply remove one 30-mL baster-full with one hand, lift the tank and remove it with the other, squirt the contents of the baster back into the trough, and lay it back down on the bench so it's ready for the next time I need it. I haven't spilled a drop that way. Just be sure you don't over fill the trough when you start a session.
By the way, I now have a sink in my garage/workshop but I still find it easier to empty the trough on the lawn and spray the metal shavings off the magnets with the garden hose.
Of course, the turkey blaster trick. I'll confess that I saw and read those posts but somehow let them pass by. I think I'm also guilty of over filling the water trough. I guess I need just enough for the stone to pick up water as it's turning. Thanks, Herman and Ken.
I don't remember who it was (maybe Robin), but one of our UK members I think, was the one that said the old SE-60 jig, was better then the 76, for pigstickers (thick mortise chisels). So I am wondering if the adjustable screw you talk about, will make a difference there?
The member who wanted to sharpen the pig sticker (thick mortising chisel) was actually Ionut. (a Romanian transplant living in Canada) Ionut and I had a dialogue on this, both on and off forum, which resulted in me purchased one of the older jigs as new old stock. As I never purchased a thick mortise chisel, the jig is still in the box.
The older square edge jig used the edge facing the grinding wheel as the fixed reference. This arrangement allowed thicker chisels to be held. This is unrelated to the adjustments on the new SE-77 Square Edge Jig.
I think the easiest way to sharpen a thick mortising chisel would be "freehand" resting it on the universal support or a platform jig.
Ken
It's pretty easy to sharpen such a pig sticker or mortise chisel with the SVD-186 normally used for gouges.
Set the tool to a position, where the upper part protrudes vertical fom the lower part. The marking arrow points far above the reading "6". Set the Chisel into the jig and fix it like a gouge. Use the Universal Support in horizontal position. Set the Chisel edge onto the stone and determine the grindging angle using the WM-200 Angle Master.
Pictures:
(http://hatchcanyon.eu/Navigation/Sonstiges/Holz/Tormek/DSC07669_9.jpg)
Using the SVD-186 jig for a mortise chisel
(http://hatchcanyon.eu/Navigation/Sonstiges/Holz/Tormek/DSC07672_9.jpg)
Details
As long as the wheel is true the tool will self center on the wheel.
(http://hatchcanyon.eu/Navigation/Sonstiges/Holz/Tormek/DSC07667_9.jpg)
Use the WM-200
(http://hatchcanyon.eu/Navigation/Sonstiges/Holz/Tormek/DSC07684_9.jpg)
Don't do that!
Setting the chisels heel first onto the stone will lead to a massive reduction of the bevel angle. Increases grinding time dramatically, removes much too much steel and leads to a weak edge.
The nice thing: The WM-200 can determine how much the angle will be undercut.
(http://hatchcanyon.eu/Navigation/Sonstiges/Holz/Tormek/DSC07686_9.jpg)
It is not necessary to work the whole bevel
(http://hatchcanyon.eu/Navigation/Sonstiges/Holz/Tormek/DSC07689_9.jpg)
Bevel grind halfway
Rolf
Hatchcanyon, I am wondering if the edge of your mortise chisel is square. ;)
I also struggled with non squarness at my heavy duty mortising chisel. This edge non squarness can be quite easily corrected by suitable chisel rotation with respect to the stone axis. It means that the longitudinal axis of the chisel will not be perpendicular to the USB. :)
For more info read
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2702.0
Jan
Rolf,
Strictly out of curiousity, how much of a secondary bevel do we need with a mortise chisel? I know that the secondary or "micro" bevel on bench chisels and planes is usually very small. I also know that mortise chisels perform heavy work. Hence, my question.
Ken
Quote from: Jan on July 23, 2016, 08:46:22 PM
Hatchcanyon, I am wondering if the edge of your mortise chisel is square. ;)
Me too looking at the picture!
Don't know why it looks that way. Got the chisel again and measured it with a small precision square from Richard Kell (England). It looks pretty square but making an appropriate picture of it is more difficult than making the tool square. ;)
(http://hatchcanyon.eu/Navigation/Sonstiges/Holz/Tormek/DSC08072_12.jpg)
Another attempt to document squarenessQuote from: Ken S on July 23, 2016, 11:21:17 PM
Strictly out of curiousity, how much of a secondary bevel do we need with a mortise chisel? I know that the secondary or "micro" bevel on bench chisels and planes is usually very small. I also know that mortise chisels perform heavy work. Hence, my question.
Ken
Ken,
it is difficult to say. The chisel is used like a lever, has to withstand large forces. Therefore I think it is best not to use something like a micro bevel. What you see on the picture may look like a very large "micro" bevel but is not. First the chisel was set to approximately 25° by the manufacturer, by far not good enough for such a tool. I increased the angle to approximately 35° . Grinding was stopped at a certain point to shorten grinding time.
Rolf
Hatchcanyon, thanks for your clarification! :)
The difficulties I have faced were caused by twisted/irregular shank of an ancient mortise chisel.
Jan
Re water trough.
Do not pour your trough water into any sink. The iron shavings will accumulate in your pipes. Once they settle, they are like concrete, water passes over and levels build.
I dump the water in grass, under ever green or on hard ground, or in a tempory bucket/can/large cup. What remains in trough is the slurry. Let it dry overnight, and next time you use, scrape in a small bucket or tupperware or used plastic cup. Use a 1-2 inch putty knife. Rinse remainder and pour that in your temp holding container or in grass. I do this everynight in our shop. At the end of the week, i take the iron powder and spread it under all my evergreens and other plants that like iron.
If you have a driveway or gravel lot that doesnt mean much asthetically, dump and rinse everything there. Mother nature will dry it and blow the iron back to where it came from.
Quote from: Hatchcanyon on July 24, 2016, 06:32:56 PM
Quote from: Jan on July 23, 2016, 08:46:22 PM
Hatchcanyon, I am wondering if the edge of your mortise chisel is square. ;)
Me too looking at the picture!
Don't know why it looks that way. Got the chisel again and measured it with a small precision square from Richard Kell (England). It looks pretty square but making an appropriate picture of it is more difficult than making the tool square. ;)
Use the square at the change in bevel point. That to me is what is making it look unsquare (not a straight line across it).
Just one final installment on my use of the SE-77 jig. I took delivery yesterday of a Type 11 Stanley no. 5 Jack Plane from eBay. It's in nice shape for one this old (1910-1918 manufactured). The cutter edge had a serious nick and was not square. Because of the nick I first ground that away with the blade set against the right hand stop and then reset it on the jig's center line to achieve a camber. Five minutes later I was done and moved over to my Arkansas stones. Using a side to side motion on a Washita stone I ground for about 30 seconds until I formed a burr, removed that and then used the same process on a translucent stone, finishing on a piece of hardwood with green compound on it.
The purpose of this post is to simply describe that once one gets accustomed to the peculiarities of this jig, it can get pretty automatic with use. Thanks for reading.
By the way, I bought a turkey baster at Walmart a couple days ago. ;)
Well done!
Those nice old Stanley planes are real troopers, and, properly tuned, Certainly hold their own with today's offerings. Besides, I have a totally irrational belief that old tools retain the wisdom of past users. I love using century tools.
You have developed a useful routine with your new square edge jig. I believe your technique will continue to grow.
Please keep us posted with your thoughts with the "new" Stanley, the jig and the turkey baster.
Ken