I received an email from Tormek Marketing with the link to the English version of the new website beta version:
http://beta.tormek.com/international/en/
I am pleased we are among those receiving early notifications from Tormek.
Ken
I probably sound like a grumpy old man. Why change something that works?
The existing website is very clear with the tab switches down the left hand side. Easy to navigate. One click and you're there.
Where is the "Forum'? It is now two clicks away as under a dropdown menu on the top right. Why have two clicks when the existing one is most efficient?
I had software developers working for me, and one of the biggest issues I had was getting them to stay on track with the requirements and not diverting 'with nice to haves' which added nothing to the system and just increased costs through unnecessary development time and support.
Yes it is nice to have an 'up to date' presentation, but don't lose sight that less is more.
Quote from: RobinW on July 08, 2016, 09:35:11 PM
I probably sound like a grumpy old man. Why change something that works?
Are you trying to say that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"? This is a common saying in the New World, or the US side of the New World.
Folks,
frankly spoken the new design is not for me! It is not clearly structured, as Robin said more a playground for a webdesigner than helpful for users. They missed the goal.
Rolf
Thinking about your replies, it occurred to me that looking at the present website's home page, it is obvious that Tormek has a forum. Looking at the new beta home page, anyone looking for the first time would be unaware that such a forum exists. One would only discover the forum if the person happened to know to click the "contast us" tab.
I am sure this oversight by the designers is accidental. I hope the comment period will still be open when Tormek returns from the traditional Swedish holiday period August 8 and that the committee will consider our comments.
Ken
Modern web design is interesting. The goal is to combine a fresh and exciting "look and feel" with a navigable map so users can reach their destination with minimum clicks.
I think this new look is more fresh than the older style. The older grey "embossed" buttons are reminiscent of 90's software real estate so they do look a little tired in this day and age. The layout however was definitely user friendly which does facilitate access to the desired part.
Perhaps the design team can build on the successes of the beta by incorporating the best of the old with the "zing" of the new?
Well stated, Rob.
I almost never reach the forum via the website. I have a direct link to the "in the shop" portion of the forum in my favorites. I even made it my safari opening page on an older laptop.
I do not remember how I first located the forum in 2009. It was probably from the website, as I joined the forum a few days before purchasing my Tormek. I would guess most of us found the forum via the website, and that, like with me, the forum was a key influence in making the decision to purchase a Tormek.
If it was not obvious on the home page, I don't know that I would have ever found the forum and might still be using waterstones. If finding the forum does not remain obvious without going through other clicks on the new website, I fear that new prospective buyers may never find us and that the number of new Tormek owners may decline. The number of demonstrations and seminars seems to have declined, at least in the US. I have not seen Tormek prominently displayed in the few dealerships I have visited. I do believe that the forum is the first and best source of information for the majority of new buyers.
I welcome a new website. I hope it will also have more in depth videos. If it does not include easy access to the forum, I question how new potential customers will learn enough to decide to invest in a Tormek.
I trust Sweden is reading our constructice comments.
Ken
I would like to make a couple suggestions for the new website:
I find the new "resellers" tab clumsy to use. The only place listed for parts is the former Sharptoolsusa, now part of Advanced Machinery in Delaware, USA. Parts really should have its own tab in dealers. Surely a Tormek owner in the Czech Republic, Israel, or the UK would not have to order parts from a dealer in Delaware. If, as is not the case in the US, the importer is also the source for parts, that should be clearly noted. If not, a parts window by country should be on the website.
I found the resellers tab slower to use than the former where to buy.
The other listing which should be included is a current list of authorized online dealers. I do not expect this list to include every ebay seller who may be selling an estate Tormek, however, many online sellers are obviously dealers and should be listed. Listing dealers by state with the little online symbol does not work.
Ken
The forum could be its own button as well as a link in FAQ/help section.
I think they need some kind of link for historical models. I think there is even some T-3 stock still out there, probably.
I find the TERM "RESELLERS" to be bad. If they are a RESELLER, then that by definition, means Tormek itself, is the SELLER. Yet I can't buy from them. Retailers has a different meaning.
I agree on the parts thing, as we have had several across the pond inquires here, about where to get parts.
The old website was designed to fit on a 750 px wide window (view port) displayed by a browser, the new one needs about 1.000 px. It comes as a so called responsive design. That means the content shrinks on a smaller view port, the old one does not. The user gets a horizontal scroll bar.
This is a new design trend and in some cases it is more user friendly especially for these guys using smart phones and tablets.
Rolf
Excellent comments.
There is a link on the beta to some historical models. Go to about Tormek > Blog. The blog is an updated version of the old news archive tab. It incorporates newer things, however, it still does not go back past 2002.
I am surprised the T7 is still listed with current models. It was placed on clearance discount in February. I suspect production ended sometime last year. Why not just list the present lineup, the T8 and T4? The T3, also discontinued, is listed on the blog. That seems correct to me and where I would place the T7.
I agree about the trem "resellers". I think of resellers as people who sell online at a premium to list price. I would much prefer "authorized Tormek dealers" which sounds more respectable.
Parts should have its own tab, divided into parts lists with easy to follow diagrams and a listing of where to find parts throughout the Tormek world. I confess my ignorance of where anyone outside the US would find Tormek parts.
I find it interesting that the new website is supposedly designed for tablets and smart phones. I do not own a smart phone, but have used an ipad for several years and have not noticed a problem with the current website. Good info, Rolf.
SADW,
I agree that the forum should have its own button on the home page and also a link in the faq part of the website. The lower left corner of the beta is vacant. I think a button with some graphics would draw attention. The beta only listed one Tormek event. It is in November and in California. That is not much draw compared with the forum.
Ken
I received a very nice and informative email this morning from Karin Jansson. Karin is the Project Manager for Tormek's new website. The present beta is just the first version of the new website. Like a prototype, it allows the website staff to have a working model to develop.
Karin mentioned that our comments are welcome and appreciated. I hope we will continue posting thoughtful and constructive comments. We have the unusual opportunity of having input into the new website; I think that is exciting!
Karin's team is working on a link to the forum. There is much work to be done before a final version. I am pleased that we will be part of the process.
Ken
Ken -
That is a very good sign that Karin Jansson has been in contact with you, also that Tormek are paying attention to comments on the Forum.
Those of us reading/posting on the Forum all have machines of various vintage, and the Forum provides a fantastic range of information both to those with machines and also those considering buying. The prime purpose of the Tormek website is to generate sales - and we are past that particular stage.
My first post concerning the beta website was possibly seen as non-too complimentary, - but my first impression of beta was disappointing.(I might not post very often but I check in every day.) Like most Forum members to a greater or lesser extent, I have been on the wrong end of poorly designed software (both personal and professionally) and I have seen poorly designed software nearly break a major company.
Following Hatchcanyon's comments, I have re-visited the beta website simultaneously using my Mac and iPad, and low and behold the presentations are different! It depends on the orientation of the iPad.
Whilst looking at the beta site, a pop-up box appeared asking for comments about the website. Well done Tormek.
I would suggest that Forum members take the opportunity of this feedback facility and be constructive in their feedback.
Robin
Robin,
Yes, you probably did sound like a grumpy old man, however, you are our grumpy old man and we love you! ;D You are in good, grumpy old company.
On a more serious note, your comments are honest and constructive. I appreciate that.
Regarding your comment about generating sales: That's not necessarily a bad thing. Early in my telephone career, I took a very good sales class at the University of Akron. One of the gems I have remembered is, "good salesmanship is good education". In the case of the forum, we are potential educators and thus, sales persons. With a less than admirable this would be unscrupulous. Has anyone among us posted a dishonest comment?
Most of us will probably not purchase another Tormek, unless, possibly as a second machine. If I had bought a SuperGrind years ago, I would probably be happily chugging along with it. It might be super charged with an EZYlock shaft, TT-50, and micro adjust universal support, however, it would still be in use. I don't think using vintage gear diminishes experience, which is really what we have to share with interested beginners.
Good find noting the change in the website from horizontal to vertical! That one had flown by this grumpy old man unnoticed. (By the way, I really enjoyed those Grumpy Old Men movies.)
Let's keep the constructive comments coming.
Ken
Quote from: RobinW on July 11, 2016, 11:46:22 PM
....and behold the presentations are different! It depends on the orientation of the iPad.
The presentation is not really different it is only sized to the width of the view port. If one reduces the size of the browser window on a large screen manually the displayed content will change accordingly.
Rolf
Point well taken, Rolf. To a beginning computerite like me, it looks different, although you are correct. Clever of the Tormek design team to realize that the world is simultaneously moving to giant televisions and miniscule computer screens. I can see the logic in that, although this Neanderthal is quite comfortable with an ipad for both typing and watching movies. :)
Ken
Ken,
it always depends on what a website is good for. My wife and I we have a website about traveling (some woodworking too) and therefore we work with relaitvely large pictures. It makes not that much sense to look at these pictures on an small display but nevertheless I consider to switch to a newer technology. Might work as an appetizer for visitors - a first glance on a smartphone, the real thing lateron on a larger screen.
I'm courious how Tormek will solve these issues, Maybe one can learn from their solution.
Rolf
I appreciate Karin and the other Tormek employee's asking for input.
I, like Ken, must be a Galoot or a Luddite. No smart phone (prepaid, cost me $50 this year), because I don't feel like paying for internet access twice every month. (and one of them on a tiny device)
Unlike Ken, I don't have any tablet, as I prefer a keyboard, and netbook style computers work better for me (some you can now use as a tablet).
I wonder if the Events thing, could be made into a button, and on that button it would show the most current upcoming event? Then below that one could have a forum button.
I will slightly disagree with Ken, because the T7 stopped being the current model in late June, early July and the T8's are still filtering in (stock of the T7 is probably greater currently). So to drop it, as a consumer would give me fear that I paid close to retail for what?
I think a lot of us would love to buy a second one, for another stone. Personally, I still argue with myself about a T8, verses a T4, and getting another stone for my 2000.
Rolf,
Website designers have a tough crowd to please today! We have "the kids", some of them not so young, using phones of different sizes; the traditionalists who prefer a larger screen and a real keyboard, the in betweeners who use tablets; and the combinationists who use a variety. What's a poor designer to do?
Both the current and beta websites have a tab for high resolution photos.
SADW,
In my case, for years our only computer was one pc which later became an imac. We are probably the only household in the US with only one television set. I bought an ipad to work with my grandson. As the grandchildren have gotton older, we have added more ipads and I replaced my photo darkroom with a Macbook (laptop). I generally do my forum work on the ipad because I have to compete with the rest of the family for the imac. If you are wondering who has the other non smart phone in the world, it's me.
The new events tab looks lean because it has not yet been populated. I'm sure the final version will have a more complete events listing.
Regarding the T7: I will be surprised if the new website is up and running much before the end of the year. The T7 was put on clearance in February. If the T7 is listed as a current model when the new website is up, I don't expect it to be listed that way for long. It is still a Tormek Flagship quality product; it just is no longer the current flagship. Either way, the new website should note that the T7 was the flagship state of the Tormek art for eight years and still a strong performer.
You have a difficult choice. I still believe what I have said before, that there is no bad choice. Your present jigs will work with any model. By now you are not panicked by a little spilled water. If you have plenty of space and do not move your Tormek much, I might lean toward the T8, which represents the newest in Tormek technology. If you move your Tormek around, the T4 is ideal. And, you won't go wrong with just a new grindstone. Tough call.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on July 12, 2016, 07:33:41 PM
What's a poor designer to do?
Try to be not everybodies darling. 3F - form follows function - is still the key to successful designs.
On our website we do not provide solutions for small devices. Nevertheless people like espectially the large pictures. Therefore I'm not sure how to proceed in the future.
Rolf
I especially like the frequently asked questions reached from the contact tab on the new beta. The questions are relevant and the answers honest and direct. When the question is asked about sharpening salon shears with a Tormek and the answer is no, I call that honest. When the question is asked about the numbers on the microadjust and the answer is .25mm or .01", I call that direct.
Well done, Tormek.
Ken
I took another path to the forum for this post. I was exploring the blog portion of the new beta website. I like the way the former news archive tab has been expanded to include the latest developments. I was impressed when I clicked on the earliest item, the inclusion to handle cutters for the gouge jig. The read more click really offered a lot more interesting material, including several videos and info including the new SVD-186. Nice job!
I hope the final version will extend the blog back to the original Tormek and innovations such as the universal support.
Page four, the last page of the blog, had a nicely done link to the forum. That struck me as very well done functional design. The graphic captured the idea of a forum very well, and, placing it at the end of the blog targeted viewers who were curious enough to read the blog.
Well done!
Ken
I like what I call the multilayer approach of the website. We had this before, and I am pleased to see it continue. As an example, if I click on jigs>SVm-45 Knife Jig, I can quickly read the essentials and watch the video. I can easily click on more information.
I am puzzled why I can not increase the size of the photos, drawings or text with my ipad. Is this possible,; am I doing something wrong; or, is this "baked in the cake"? (The magnification feature works on the current website.)
Ken
T-7:
According to my knowledge the production of T-7 ended sometime in mid April. After this date Tormek started to get ready of the production of T-8.
Just imagine, some dealers might still have 10+ T-7s on stock. It's a good thing if potential customers can visit the website of the manufacturer and find useful information there before purchasing.
As far I know the T-3 was also listed as an available model one and half year after the release of the T-4. I expect the same from T-7 for the same reason. This is perfectly logical for marketing point of view.
As for the new website, I like it. Especially the FAQ and #Tormek images is a nice touch.
However some information is now harder to find. For example the already mentioned forum and warranty information.
What I always missed from Tormek is a list of upcoming exhibitions. Not just for the ones organized by Tormek HQ but also organized by individual distributors. Sometimes there is info on Tormek's facebook page about exhibitions but usually too late to visit these. What I'm thinking is a calendar. The marketing department could ask the distributors every January to provide the necessary information for the year, and upload it in the calendar.
Good comments, Inuwashi.
I do not know exactly when production stopped with the T7. I would guess sometime last year, as they were priced for clearance early in February. I think the reduced clearance price may still be in force, however, pricing seems spotty. Especially in light of the fact that the T8 includes the new SE-77 Square Edge jig, as well as the other updated features, in my opinion, the T8 represents a better value for new purchase. (Others may disagree).
Keep in mind that the new website will probably not be up until late in the year at best.
The events are not yet populated at this point becauuse the beta is just a beta. Tormek does plan to include them. I am not sure how complete the listing will be; I hope it is very complete. For many, an event is the only opportunity to actually see and handle a Tormek. I like your calendar idea.
I like the FAQ and the hi res images, also. The hi res images are actually available on the present website, but are not obvious. I will check into the warranty information. I agree, it should be easily accessible. It is outstanding, and I am certain Tormek would not want to miss an opportunity to utilize it as a sales tool.
Scandinavia is on the long summer holiday until August 8. (Too bad this tradition didn't come across the Atlantic with the immigrants!) I encourage everyone to post website thoughts, which I am sure Sweden will study after August 8. We are most fortunate to have Karin Jansson interested in our comments. In addition to being in charge of the website project project, Karin happens to be the daughter of the inventor and founder, Torgny Jansson. She also is the company owner. We have a fine ally!
Ken