(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b598/byoomholay/IMG_4602_zpszlastskr.jpg)
I noticed 2 things:
The grinding wheel was starting to slip when under pressure and shortly after a bumping sound as the drive wheel went out of true. Ouch. never seen this fault before.
Ouch! Rob, I am wondering why the parts of the drive wheel are so far apart when the drive wheel is belted by massive rubber friction ring. Even more the drive wheel is kept together by three pins of the honing wheel. ???
Was not the M12 nut tighten with an extreme torque?
Jan
Rob,
Ouch! :( Fortunately the drive wheel has been redesigned for the T8. Better still, the new zinc drive wheel will fit your Tormek. When you order the new part, make sure you will be receiving the new model. I would email support@tormek.se to verify the new part's number.
Ken
That's interesting Ken. I dug out the receipt today and by a lucky chance it' still in warranty until this coming August when the 7 years is up :-)
Do you think the dealer will automatically ship the zinc part?
Quote from: Jan on July 06, 2016, 08:17:44 PM
Ouch! Rob, I am wondering why the parts of the drive wheel are so far apart when the drive wheel is belted by massive rubber friction ring. Even more the drive wheel is kept together by three pins of the honing wheel. ???
Was not the M12 nut tighten with an extreme torque?
Jan
The M12 nut hasn't been removed since the machine was new Jan so I'm unsure if it was over tightened but I doubt it because that's a procedure I imagine the factory uses a torque wrench to do on assembly.
Quote from: Rob on July 07, 2016, 12:51:29 AM
Quote from: Jan on July 06, 2016, 08:17:44 PM
Ouch! Rob, I am wondering why the parts of the drive wheel are so far apart when the drive wheel is belted by massive rubber friction ring. Even more the drive wheel is kept together by three pins of the honing wheel. ???
Was not the M12 nut tighten with an extreme torque?
Jan
The M12 nut hasn't been removed since the machine was new Jan so I'm unsure if it was over tightened but I doubt it because that's a procedure I imagine the factory uses a torque wrench to do on assembly.
That was an unpleasant surprize. Lucky you are under the warranty.
To me it looks like the outer screw that holds the leather honing wheel in place was to tight tightened. There is no reason to do so cuz there are 3 pines inside holding it from sliding. Probably after long time the plastic got tiered and broke. That's my opinion. Still you are under warranty.
If the torque of the nut is really an issue, it should have been noted as a caution in the handbook.
Considering the number of much older Tormeks still in regular use with the original plastic drive wheels, I do not consider the design to be defective. That stated, I believe the design team at Tormek must have realized that the benefits of redesigning the drive wheel in zinc outweighed the costs involved.
While I consider the older plastic Tormek drive wheel to be a good product, I consider the new zinc model to be superior. The regular stainless steel shaft was an improvement over the regular steel shaft. With the advent of the EZYlock shaft, the regular stainless shafts were discontinued, and only the EZYlock is available as a spare part. I applaud this decision. I believe the zinc drive wheel will or probably has replaced the plastic model as a spare part.
I hope Tormek will replace your broken drive wheel with the new zinc model. I can understand a temporary shortage, leading to temporarily sending you a plastic one from current stock, however, I believe the permanent replacement should be the current zinc model.
Ken
That would suit me fine Ken :-)
Having dismantled the honing side of the machine I had a good look at the shaft which is still the original steel one and it's completely free of any sign of corrosion?? Whether that was luck or due to me always taking the trough off after use so the wheel doesn't wick up and drip I don't know.
One trouble is that there is a little cylindrical "cotter pin" for want of a better word. Not sure what it's called in engineering terms but its about 3mm in diameter with a slot running its length. It fits inside the central locking moulding and slots through the shaft....well it did.....its now somewhere in the shavings under my lathe!!
I've looked for over an hour. Can I find it? Er....no. Does warranty cover user stupidity???
Rob,
Divide and conquer. I would take a handful or two of turning chips and run a magnet through them. If not, Tormek might be big hearted and spring for a new cotter pin.
Your T7 is the same vintage as my first one. Mine came with a stainless steel shaft, non EZYlock. Speaking of EZYlock, this would be a very opportune time to convert to EZYlock. You have to go through the conversion procedure regardless of which shaft you use. The kit comes with a new set of bushings. Check with support about the cotter pin; I don't remember if you need it or not. EZYlock is one of those "Bob's your uncle" accessories.
Add a turkey baster and you will really be cooking with gas!
Ken
I don't "need" to convert to Ezylock just to replace the drive wheel do I?
Quote from: Rob on July 07, 2016, 06:53:05 PM
One trouble is that there is a little cylindrical "cotter pin" for want of a better word. Not sure what it's called in engineering terms but its about 3mm in diameter with a slot running its length. It fits inside the central locking moulding and slots through the shaft....well it did.....its now somewhere in the shavings under my lathe!!
I've looked for over an hour. Can I find it? Er....no. Does warranty cover user stupidity???
Rob, the correct term is "locking pin". Do not worry, it is a standard spare part No.39. :)
Jan
P.S.: May be I have an explanation for this fault. The drive wheel was unsatisfied with its uncertain future after the Brexit vote. :-\
Quote from: Rob on July 07, 2016, 08:21:57 PM
I don't "need" to convert to Ezylock just to replace the drive wheel do I?
Rob, absolutely no need to convert to EZYlock. My only thought was that you will have your Tormek somewhat taken apart anyway. This seems a logical time to clean and regrease the bushings. Your present shaft, as always, will work fine. I just find the EZYlock very convenient.
Ken
ps to Jan: funny comment! :)
Quote from: Rob on July 07, 2016, 08:21:57 PM
I don't "need" to convert to Ezylock just to replace the drive wheel do I?
No. The main shaft you have has lasted so long precisely because you've taken such good care of it. It should continue to work fine provided it's not bent. Go to the sharptoolsusa web site and find the part you've lost. Might as well order new nylon bearings while you're at it. They are inexpensive. But if you do buy a new main shaft keep in mind that new bearings do come with it.
Here is the link for the locking pin on advmachinery.com (Advanced Machinery, owner of Sharptoolsusa and Tormek parts source in the US.)
https://advanced-machinery.myshopify.com/products/39-locking-pin
Rob, surely either your dealer or Brimarc would be a better place for you to start.
Going by memory, I recall Jeff mentioning in his blog that Tormek switched to stainless steel shafts in 2006, although the EZYlock version did not begin until 2010. Please note that I revised this sentence to include 2006.
Ken
The T-7 era was a paint color change. In late 2006, they started making the shaft stainless steel. For as easy as it is to use a wrench/spanner (for Rob), I see no benefit to change it. Those of use who had the non stainless shaft, or someone who regularly changes stones, might find one useful.
Not the first splitting drive wheel thread, and while I found several of those, I thought I remembered several cracking wheel threads, that might have been the drive wheel, OR the honing wheel.
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1072.0
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1216.0
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1650.0
Off topic
If Jeff Farris were still around, I have read his old posts, but never found one where he mentioned the smaller size stones he used for cleavers. (he freehanded them) Rob, you built a larger support bar, but do you also use a smaller stone?
Thanks for posting everyone, some really helpful bytes in there.
So given I bought mine in 2009, maybe it does have the stainless shaft??
I'm not a frequent wheel changer so there really is no benefit to having the ezylock technology. In fact the last time I changed the wheel (to the blackstone) was in 2010!
So I'm thinking I should do the following:
1) Order the drive wheel under warranty (already contacted the UK dealer from whom I bought and have the receipt).
2) Order a new locking pin and nylon bearings at the same time.
Am I missing anything here?
Thanks again folks
R
It certainly should have the stainless shaft. In 2006, but I don't know month, the swap happened. With the color change in 2007 as well as all the other improvements and the new at the time, SE-76 jig, they named it T-7.
From what I have seen, it appears it was originally a Tormek Supergrind, until 2000, when the 2000 designation came into being.
Rob,
I cannot imagine the EZYlock shafts being hard to find in the future. A new drive wheel and locking pin will get you back up and runninng. New bushings can 't hurt. Get what you need and make a note to reevaluate the EZYlock sometime in 2020. :)
Ken
;D
Well, happily I can report that the dealer where I bought my Tormek has discussed the situation with the importer and agreed its covered by warranty....yay :-)
Rob,
I am very pleased to hear that! Pleased, but not surprised. I expect that level of commitment from Tormek. I have had the opportunity of talking about customer commitment on several occasions with both Stig and several members of Affinity Tool, the US importer. I have asked very directed questions about warranty policy. These conversations have always left me convinced of Tormek's commitment to customer satisfaction.
Ken
Quote from: Rob on July 21, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
Well, happily I can report that the dealer where I bought my Tormek has discussed the situation with the importer and agreed its covered by warranty....yay :-)
You want to hear about "covered under warranty"? This drive wheel was a piece of plastic and is now upgraded to a zinc casting. While I am sure the zinc being metal must be an upgrade the truth is that zinc is so cheap that we make pennies with it. In the end, all Tormek does is ship a new drive wheel and the customer installs it. Good for them to honor a warranty that they expressed or implied as they say in legalese. Now, my example of superlative customer service and this is common throughout the firearms industry EXCEPT with SIG Sauer. Years ago, I had a Smith and Wesson model 29 and disassembled it for cleaning. I mean that I took it apart down to the frame as I always did. Well, I clutzed up somehow and broke the trigger pin from the frame. This was a nickel plated gun and had some use on it, you know hairline scratched but nothing through the finish. To replace the pin would create an ugly flaw in the plating on that side of the gun as it was a press fit part through the metal. Well, Smith replaced the pin and REFINISHED the entire gun. They returned the gun at NO charge.
Jeffs55, thanks for sharing this interesting story with a happy ending. :)
Was it entirely your fault? I have read several posts concerning broken pins of S&V revolvers. I am no more sure about the model, but probably 29-7 which came with several changes into production in 1998. ;)
Jan
Quote from: Jan on July 21, 2016, 04:23:43 PM
Jeff55, thanks for sharing this interesting story with a happy ending. :)
Was it entirely your fault? I have read several posts concerning broken pins of S&V revolvers. I am no more sure about the model, but probably 29-7 which came with several changes into production in 1998. ;)
Jan
29-2 model and it was entirely my fault. I forced the trigger onto the pin when it was not aligned properly. This was more than 30 years ago and I still have the gun.
OK Jeffs55, it is a famous six-shot revolver, one of the most powerful handguns.
Your model was introduced in 1961! :)
Jan
It is a beautiful nickel plated version of the gun Dirty Harry used except his was blued and six inch barrel, mine is 8 3/8 inch barrel. Truly a powerful handgun, Harry said "it will blow your head clean off". I do not know about that but it sure would make a mess. Depends on the ammunition used. I once shot a squirrel in the front shoulder and it exited near his hind end. The bullet was a hard cast lead projectile and did not expand in his soft tissue at all. I used to be big into firearms and at that time cast my own bullets, usually from a lead alloy known as linotype. There was simply a hole end to end in the squirrel.
I bet he didn't eat many nuts after that :o
Quote from: jeffs55 on July 21, 2016, 01:53:38 PM
Quote from: Rob on July 21, 2016, 11:27:33 AM
Well, happily I can report that the dealer where I bought my Tormek has discussed the situation with the importer and agreed its covered by warranty....yay :-)
You want to hear about "covered under warranty"? This drive wheel was a piece of plastic and is now upgraded to a zinc casting. While I am sure the zinc being metal must be an upgrade the truth is that zinc is so cheap that we make pennies with it. In the end, all Tormek does is ship a new drive wheel and the customer installs it. Good for them to honor a warranty that they expressed or implied as they say in legalese.
As you know or not :) I'm importer of Tormek in Israel. 2 weeks ago a shop called me and asked for new SG-250. They bought their T-7 from another importer here at the time I wasn't importer. Lucky them they had the receipt in the drawer and we could confirm it was bought Oct. 2010. As they are only 20 min drive from me I suggested I'd visit them. Lucky them ;) that I visited.
Bothe nylon bearings where in so bad shape that I don't understand how they worked. Stone was oval and with diagonal plan. Taking the leather wheel off, showed crack on the drive wheel and the leather was dry as they didn't use it at all. In fact they used the machine on a high bench and sharpened free handed. honing they did with high speed bench grinder.
So I stayed there and gave then some sharpening lessons and advices. Ordered new nylon bearings and drive wheel. Tormek sent it same day I sent them mail. Didn't even have to wait for next shipment. Thanks Wolfgang ;) my regional manager.
To summarize: They asked for SG-250 and got "full" service under warranty that they probably would miss. I got new happy client and some selling as they bought the SG-250 and some jigs. They will also recomend me to other Tormek users or shops that might buy one.
Tormek got a good name from the client point of view too.
So "free" service isn't so bad after all.
Win win to all.
Customer bases have a habit of growing when the business that service them aim to keep them happy by helping them to solve problems where they have domain expertise. It's not rocket science is it, it's called "adding value" and yet you'd be amazed at how many businesses I encounter where the philosophy is "Bodge it & Scarper"!
Tormek, have never been one of those, in fact all Scandinavian companies I've ever dealt with have been staffed by delightful, forward thinking, warm and friendly people who are a pleasure to work with. I really like Scandinavian culture.
I once had the Managing Director of a Norwegian software company play an electric guitar riff on a conference call with me after we'd (jointly) won a major order from a Scottish based oil customer, by way of celebration. We did have a laugh in those days :-)
Once again, this is so simple it is beyond belief. There is a saying in America that goes something like this. "It takes 1,000 'atta boys' to erase one 'you're an idiot". What this means is that if you do one small thing right, as WolfY did, then you will get a reward far out of proportion to your initial sacrifice. HOWEVER, if you do the same small thing wrong; you will also be rewarded proportionately. Thank you WolfY for going the extra 20 minutes.
This topic illustrates the importance of registering your Tormek. The procedure is quick and painless. It can be done online from tormek.com. I suggest also carefully filing the sales receipt or taping it to the inside cover of the handbook.
Fortunately my first Tormek was registered. I was packing to move when it was stolen in a break in. I emailed Tormek. They promptly emailed me the serial number for the police report.
It would appear that this customer neglected to perform any recommended maintenance. This is certainly covered in the handbook. As much as I personally value and rely on the handbook, I realize that written material pertains to an earlier era. Today's world is the world of youtube. Whereas the handbook was written by Torgny Jansson, inventor and leading expert on the Tormek, a youtube is likely to be made by Joe Sixpack on his porch. The factual information may be questionable, however, it has the expertise of "as seen on youtube".
One of Tormek's former competitors produced an hour long instructional video with a leading expert teacher. Tormek needs to enter the fray with an in depth instructional video. The Tormek turner's info package contains an outstanding in depth video. This excellence needs to be expanded to general use.
Ken
Well done, WolfY!
The next time I need my Tormek serviced, I will call you! :)
Ken
Quote from: jeffs55 on July 21, 2016, 01:53:38 PM
While I am sure the zinc being metal must be an upgrade the truth is that zinc is so cheap that we make pennies with it.
I doubt that it's pure zinc. More likely it's an alloy chosen not only because of its cost, but also ability to be machined to specs and its durability.
My plastic drive wheel has been in use in my garage for almost 14 years. Although it never freezes in the winter, it gets plenty hot and humid during our way-too-long summers here on the Texas gulf coast. It shows no signs of wear.
I've pondered the cause of the failure of mine because my Tormek gets infrequent use, is almost never moved and I'm always careful about tightening components with screw threads or rather avoiding over tightening them. It is an unusual failure for sure.
Rob, it could be the cold weather. Does it ever freeze in your shop?
The comment about zinc being an inexpensive material reminds me of a photographic enlarger made by Leitz, the Leica company, many years ago. Like everything Leitz, it was top drawer and priced accordingly. The light diffuser was criticized because it looked like a styrofoam cup. The criticism was true, however, after researching the issue, the Leitz engineers found the styrofoam cup look alike was the best performer.
From what I have seen of Tormek zinc, it also works very well.
Ken
Thanks Rob, Jeff55, Ken and others,
Great to wake up early in the morning reading this forum and the nice words from you.
Rob, living in Sweden for long probably shaped the way I think ;)
Ken, I will be happy to service you, so call me next time. Mmmmm don't forget to send the fare tickets cuz the 20 min drive to you, is only to the airport :P
Quote from: WolfY on July 22, 2016, 06:02:35 AM
Tormek got a good name from the client point of view too.
So "free" service isn't so bad after all.
Win win to all.
Now, you should have brought a camera. Education is the most important part of what you provided. The warranty service secondary, in my opinion. My thoughts were, were the same people working that originally bought the machine? How many "new" employee's, have never seen the video's? (and where IS the dvd)
Years ago, there was a man known as Mr. Sawdust that taught and sold Radial arm saws (Dewalt, specifically). Now the only training for power tools, are paper manuals, that have gone though writers, then probably legal, then checkers, then legal again, etc. Because so many companies are worried about liability of having someone demo something with a bad habit.
With the cracked drive wheel issue, I do wonder if it is similar to cooking. Either not thoroughly mixed plastic, before pouring, improperly cured, or just a thin point that broke. (basically flukes)
Ken, I still wonder if Tormek ever runs your old number, through their database, to see if anyone has entered that number to download a user manual.
WolfY asked me to post for him that he is having a log in problem and will not be able to post again until after Tormek returns from holiday August 8. (Ken, moderator)
Thanks ken for posting this for me. Got my forum life back today thanks to Juhani.
WolfY,
No problem. I'll just have Sweden put your flights and travel expenses on my corporate forum moderator credit card. (In my dreams. :) )
SADW, I have never expcted Tormek to do anything more with my stolen serial number. Most companies do not want to get involved with legal situations. I can understand this. I would be surprised if anyone else could register that serial number as it had been reported stolen.
By the way, I agree with you about most product manuals. They seem to be written by the legal staff. I do think the Tormek handbook is a notable exception to this. While I would like to see more training videos and seminars, I can't fault the handbook.
Ken
My company had once the situation that a notebook computer was stolen. We registered the serial number with the manufacturer (Toshiba) and approximately a year later we got a message from a police department that this computer was sent to Toshiba for repair. The thief was caught.
Rolf
Quote from: Hatchcanyon on July 24, 2016, 12:04:15 PM
My company had once the situation that a notebook computer was stolen. We registered the serial number with the manufacturer (Toshiba) and approximately a year later we got a message from a police department that this computer was sent to Toshiba for repair. The thief was caught.
Rolf
Relative in property crimes, so I have heard lots of these stories (some companies better to work with then others). For the most part it is a one time programming thing, similar to the database searches for recalls, where they drop the serial number (or other number like manufacture date, in the case of recalls), into a database search program.
That doesn't mean they haven't and you don't know about it, it also doesn't mean (haven't tried it) that they keep the serial number of those trying to register for a manual (since early ones didn't have one).
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on July 23, 2016, 01:53:49 AM
Rob, it could be the cold weather. Does it ever freeze in your shop?
That's an insightful point Herman, I hadn't thought of that. It certainly gets cold here in the winters, I mean it's not like Sweden and Northern Europe generally but we certainly can get down to the low minus figures (Celsius) on occasions. I have a max/min thermometer in my workshop and I've never seen it at zero. I've seen it below 5 degrees C many times so I guess that may have contributed to a more brittle nature of the plastic. Who knows??
I recall reading about cracked drive wheels from time to time. The frequency is rare enough to make me think that while the possibility of a cracked drive wheel does exist, it does not seem like a common problem. It has apparently been enough of a problem for Tormek to absorb the expense of redesigning it. I have the feeling that the cracked wheel situation, like the rusted shaft situation, will gradually subside as more users have the newer parts.
Ken
I'm sure you're right Ken. I do hope I get a zinc one shipped
Sorry, Rob.
The new zinc models are reserved for EU members..... :(
Ken
Even after the Brexit vote UK is still the EU member. ;)
I intercede for a zinc wheel for Rob. :)
Jan
LOL
Thanks Jan...us EU members have to stick together!! :-)
And Ken...when young Mr Trump parks his Delorean on the Whitehouse lawn, you guys are going to be chucked out of a few clubs I rather think :-)
Rob,
Should that very sad day happen, I can see Lord Cornwallis telling George III, "I told you the colonials would bugger things!"
Ken
ps Thank you to the Czech Republic for coming to your aid in this gime of great need. :)
Happy days.
The new drive wheel has arrived complete with locking pin. Though not the newer zinc version I'm quite happy as the T7 is now running true with no more slippage.
Took all of 3 minutes to replace the part :-)
Gotta love that 7 year warranty.
Rob,
I am pleased you are up and running again.
Ken
Quote from: Rob on August 03, 2016, 10:21:54 PM
Though not the newer zinc version
Gotta love that 7 year warranty.
Why didn't you get a zinc wheel? I am sure they were not replacing like for like as in same for same. At some point their inventory of plastic wheels will be exhausted. It should have been the latest greatest part available, read that as the most current production.
Quote from: jeffs55 on August 04, 2016, 04:28:34 AM
Why didn't you get a zinc wheel? I am sure they were not replacing like for like as in same for same. At some point their inventory of plastic wheels will be exhausted. It should have been the latest greatest part available, read that as the most current production.
It appears that they are indeed replacing like for like. At least until their inventory of plastic wheels is exhausted. :)
It's not clear to me which, if either, of the wheels is the better one. It may be that the zinc wheel will last longer, but we will have to wait a long time to even be able to get the data we'd need to determine that.
Rob,
In the interest of proper testing, why don't you purchase a T8 and use it side by side with your T7 with the older model plastic drive wheel? :)
Ken
Mostly because last time I checked Ken, there isn't a tree in my back garden that grows money!
However, I'm not fussed about receiving a plastic wheel since that was what was on my original. I see no reason why I should expect to have a superior part (assuming the zinc is superior) without paying for an upgrade. A like for like replacement seems eminently fair to me, just so long as it's functioning correctly, which thus far it is. So I'm happy and frankly it helps justify the rather high entry cost for the T7 in that close to 7 years later, the company continues to stand by it's customers by replacing parts in this way. I think that's excellent service.
Agreed.
Ken