... then you are in the same camp as me. Mine is 16 or 17 years old and runs like a champ. No pasture for this stallion !
But, I have made some improvements to mine that I recommend highly :
- the shaft was upgraded to stainless steel with the EzyLock nut (MSK-250)
- the universal support was replaced to have one with the micro adjust (US-105)
- replaced the truing tool, upgrading to the TT-50
- glued a rare earth magnet to the outside of the water tray to collect as many iron filings as possible
I like the way the T8 allows the water tray to be lowered, making it easier to empty the water without spilling it. I am thinking about some way to put a spigot and drain pipe onto my water tray so I can drain it (at least somewhat) before removing the tray. If anyone has an idea, please post a reply.
Kind regards,
Rich
Rich,
Thoughtful and useful comments from someone who has spent many years in the Tormek trenches.
I think you have identified the key upgrades.
Watching you this afternoon with the copper tube gave me an idea on the drive home. I saved a couple syringes (without needles) from my grandchildren's early medicine. (They looked handy for my photographic darkroom.) The plumber used a much larger"syringe" to get all the water out of the toilet he changed for me, as does the generator man during annual oil changes. Surely there must be such a syringe sized right for removing most of the water from the Tormek water trough. If anyone knows, please post.
Ken
There are all sorts of fluid pumps/extractors/syringes, etc. For reference:
fluid cup = ~237 ml (cc) / 8oz
You can get 'em at auto parts stores. You can even get motorized pumps or larger hand pumps that attach to a tank or even a 50 gal drum so you don't have to empty it very often. Hint- 1 gallon water = ~8 lbs.
I'm sure if you are industrious or lazy, an auto-empty / refill contraption could be made and operated with a remote or to go off on a timer whilst you slept. ::)
Search around for oil extractor, oil syringe, that sort of thing.
https://www.amazon.com/Plews-30-740-UltraView-Suction-Tube/dp/B008ZE1GPG/ref=pd_sbs_263_5?ie=UTF8&dpID=31J5fwZGVwL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR95%2C160_&psc=1&refRID=E228YW3S764G8C06X1JR
https://www.toolsource.com/fluid-evacuators-c-370_766/automotive-fluid-filler-extraction-syringe-1500cc-p-147048.html?sourceid=googleps&gclid=CMGk5Ib1yc0CFQkNaQodWNAL9Q
https://www.toolsource.com/fluid-evacuators-c-370_766/automotive-fluid-filler-extraction-syringe-200cc-p-147047.html
Hi,
A drain pipe will get clogged from the remains of stone and metal though.
Best,
Stig
I think the motorized model with a 50 gallon drum would be just the ticket for my T4! :)
Actually, I think something (the pump) in around a liquid cup (250ml) would be useful. Not all the water would be removed, leaving only the very heavy gritty water to clean with a paper towel. A holding bucket, perhaps a quart or liter would be adequate.
Ken
Rich,
If I look at myself totally honestly, if I had bought a SuperGrind 2000 many years ago like you did, I would probably be using it today. Most of my bench planes date from 1909. (I am the second owner.) My grandfather's jack plane is a 1891 Stanley. My table saw is my other grandfather's 1931 Delta tilting table model. Even my favorite hammer is Dad's leather handled Estwing, and is as old as I am.
My original Tormek T7 (from 2009) was one of my newest tools. Before it was stolen, I had upgraded to the EXYlock shaft and Advanced Water Trough. So, I think I can honestly state that if I was in your shoes, I would still be using my T2000 with the upgrades you have made. I do believe that someone beginning today is best served by the latest model, however, I certainly understand staying with reliable tools of many years service.
Ken
How about a simple hole with a cork or rubber stopper. Drill the lowest point, plug with stopper, fill with water and go to town. When fininshed remove stopper and drain into something that will fit under the trough to prevent a mess. OR, simply do not fill to the rim to begin with and this will allow much easier and less messy removal.
Where are you located? What sort of holiday's do you have?
Here in the USA, every year around Thanksgiving, you can find basters for $1, which would be good for sucking things up. Then there are also things like large automotive sponges, or old t shirts, rags, etc. but you will have to worry about dripping. Also, there are inexpensive transfer pumps sold at lots of these places.
The problem with any pipe is to fully drain it has to be at the lowest point. To do that, the Machine needs to be larger, so the pipe is lower then the install setting on the machine.
Any pump, could get clogged up, as well as the drain.
If spillage is a problem just removing the trough, it's probably filled with more water than needed. You really only need to have about ½" (13mm) of the wheel hitting the water. Just enough so the wheel draws up water evenly over the surface of the wheel.
This will also reduce general splashing and mess.
Excellent post, Grepper.
I noticed Steve Bottorff had the two Tormeks set up at the Hartville show with just enough water to have a little flow over the top of the grinding wheel. That was less than I usually use, and probably the reason so little spilled!
We need to maintain a certain level of water in the trough. The total amount of water needed is the amount of water absorbed by the grinding wheel plus the water in the trough. If we fill the trough using a graduate (a kitchen measuring graduate works fine) and allow the grinding wheel enough running time to fully absorb, we will know how much water is required. Assuming the amount of absorption will be fairly constant, if we use the same amount of water we measured in future sessions, we should always have the ideal amount or water. We will have enough to do the job with minimal spill.
I reuse plastic juice bottles to fill my Tormek. If we fill the plastic jar to the same amount of water using the same graduate, we can use a marker or a triangle of black tape to note the level.
Ken
You guys are WAY too scientific for me ! I dump water in the trough to the full line, add then more as it gets absorbed into the stone. When it stops going down, I get to work. I am too lazy to measure out the water.
Heck, I simply wanted a drain that would let out ½ the water or so. Just enough that it didn't splash as I clumsily let the trough down.
But, maybe that's why I'm a wood turner and not a furniture maker !!
Kind regards,
Rich
SADW,
You get the Popular Mechanics Home Workshop award for your turkey baster idea. Practical and cheap! Just what I was looking for!
Rich, you may be right about being too scientific. I do think the idea of measuring the water might be worth pursuing. I'll give it a go, for T4,7, and 8 and post the results.
Ken
Quote from: RichColvin on June 29, 2016, 03:36:15 AM
You guys are WAY too scientific for me ! I dump water in the trough to the full line, add then more as it gets absorbed into the stone. When it stops going down, I get to work. I am too lazy to measure out the water.
I do the same thing.
QuoteHeck, I simply wanted a drain that would let out ½ the water or so. Just enough that it didn't splash as I clumsily let the trough down.
I'll try the turkey baster and let you know how it works. I agree with Stig that any sort of valve would quickly get gummed up.
By the way, I'm still using the SuperGrind 2000 that I bought back in 2002. I agree with your list of upgrades and have done them all except for the truing tool. I want to do it, but I just can't pull the trigger to justify the cost. Maybe if I were more than just a casual user.
And, oh yeah, I didn't buy a new Universal Support. I simply threaded the one I had and embedded a nut into a plastic cap from a juice bottle.
And I've painted mine black because the original green finish had flaked away in many places.
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1886.msg9734#msg9734
Herman,
The new truing tool is made in two models, the TT-50 and the TT-50U. The U stands for upgrade, and means that the diamond tip is not included. The idea is that someone with the older model might prefer to reuse his diamond and save roughly half the price. I consider this customer considerate marketing.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on June 29, 2016, 11:41:23 PM
Herman,
The new truing tool is made in two models, the TT-50 and the TT-50U. The U stands for upgrade, and means that the diamond tip is not included. The idea is that someone with the older model might prefer to reuse his diamond and save roughly half the price. I consider this customer considerate marketing.
Ken
I had to look that up, as I remember you could buy a replacement diamond, but forgot about the "upgrade". The Truing tool, the book and the paste were the items that the prior owner couldn't find, when I bought my 2000. He later found the book and brought it out to me.
Also the support bar has been upgraded, TWICE.
I think if you bought a Supergrind 2000 within a year of the threaded bar, they gave you an upgrade. (from memory, but might have been something Jeff did at the shows) I have the first bar (not threaded) and the second bar, but not the third bar. If you have the old SE-60 as well as either the SE-76/77, then you will notice an extra knob. That knob goes in the end of bar number 3, as a stop (see the jigs webpage and you will notice it). I use an old trick that I read in one of Jeff's posts (put a magnet on the end of the bar)
The Prior owner bought a new stone after chipping his getting it off the shaft, so I did upgrade the shaft first thing. I also bought the Truing tool, paste, and missing jigs. The next upgrades were the newer water tray, and the swivel base. I haven't upgraded any jigs to current ones, so I am one generation back on those now. The one upgrade I would like to do, is upgrade from the single knob XB-100 to the double knob one, and use the single with the non threaded bar for a BGM setup.
I still would like to get a second one, current model with the blackstone, but life recently got very much in the way, so fun stuff is well on standby. (standbuy might be just as adequate ;))
Good post, SADW.
Rich Colvin gave me his older truing tool. I am fascinated with the development of the Tormek and pleased to have it. I will try it, although even with just looking, the TT-50 seems a much more controllable tool. I do think the truing tool is essential. I would recommend anyone purchasing a T4 also purchase the TT-50 at the same time.
The trick of placing a magnet on the end of the universal support is very clever. So is the idea of taping or gluing a magnet to the water trough. I just realized why Jeff's chisel sharpening videos do not show him using the stops; the videos predate the stops!
I upgraded the shaft and water trough on my original T7 (the one which was stolen). I was not having any problems; I just wanted to stay current. In hindsight, if money was tight, I would upgrade the shaft first and maybe eventually upgrade the water trough.
I would upgrade to a new universal support with the microadjust. It is very useful. Most of us don't have access to a 12mm Acme tap or the skill to use one well. Having a second (or more) universal support is useful. During reshaping it is convenient to leave the jig set up on the support and switch to a second support with the truing tool already set up. Jeff kept a spare support with his platform jig preset for sharpening his turning scrapers, a very clever use for a support without a microadjust. When sharpening multiple chisels, leaving a second support preset for the honing wheel speeds things.
My supports all happen to have the threaded end for the safety stop. I should recommend upgrading to get this feature. Unless you sharpen bench chisels and plane blades with the square edge jigs, you will not need this feature. I learned to sharpen these tools by watching Jeff's pre threaded videos, so I rarely use the stops. I have been trying to unlearn this bad habit and do recommend using the stops. Instead of removing the jig to examine the grinding progress, learn to feel for a consistent burr with the jig in place.
I agree with you about upgrading to the two screw XB-100. I suspect Torgny Jansson was a practical, thrifty man and thought one holding screw was adequate for the task. Probably so, but two screws is better. I like the redesigned cast and machined zinc collars on the T8. I suspect redesigning the XB-100 in zinc is a low priority. The present design seems perfectly adequate. I had the same idea with a BGM-100. I thought I found a bargain XB-100 and realized it was the one screw model when I got home. Incidentally, the sleeves are thicker on the two screw model to support threaded holes. Only the one threaded sleeve is thicker on the older model.
I later purchased a two screw XB-100. I have several ideas for relocating the support for different operations. At this point, the "need" is more theoretical than actual.
I appreciate the comments you SuperGrinders post. You have "in the trenches" experiences with the venerable older Tormeks that I don't have. If I had only bought a Tormek way back when I bought the white friable grinding wheel for my dry grinder................
Ken
Looking at the news archive tab on the left side of tormek.com, the microadjust universal support was introduced in September of 2003. The SE-76 was introduced in September of 2007. The archive shows the T7 being introduced in the same month. This seems to mirror the SE-77 being introduced with the T8.
No mention is made of the introduction of the threaded model of the universal support. Presumably it was at the same time as the SE-76.
Ken
Quote from: SharpenADullWitt on June 28, 2016, 04:44:35 PM
Where are you located? What sort of holiday's do you have?
Here in the USA, every year around Thanksgiving, you can find basters for $1, which would be good for sucking things up.
I followed through on SADW's idea this morning at my local grocery store. I found a nice "Grand Gourmet" turkey baster for $3.99 US. It is very off season, but it looked like a nice one, so I splurged. It is a clear plastic,looks sturdy and is calibrated in both Imperial and Metric to one ounce or 28ml. (We need the calibration, right? :) ) It is approximately 250mm or ten inches long. It is a simple, inexpensive tool which works very well. Due to its size, it will require several pump and squirt cycles, however, I do not see that as a problem.
The critical dimension for a baster used this way is the girth of the tip. It has to be able to squeeze by the grinding wheel to get to the water in the trough. Smaller is better. Mine has a graduated maximum volume of 28ml (1 ounce). It works very well. Think small for clearance!
I would recommend that we all add a turkey baster to the grocery list. Great idea, SADW!
Ken
Rich and Herman,
Just out of curiousity, I fired up the T7 with my SG-250, which has worn down to an SG-238. This combination seemed "forum typical". I dug my one liter graduate out of storage (from my photo darkroom).
I started the motor and put about 2/3 of the liter in the water trough. Enough water soaked into the stone that I eventually used the full liter of water. I let the machine run and sharpened a knife. Total running tome was fifteen to twenty minutes. At the end of that time, water was still running over the top of the grinding wheel. Not a lot of water, however, it seemed adequate to me.
The next step is to mark a line on the outside of a plastic bottle. A forty ounce juice bottle would work. A one liter bottle would not even require a line.
As a practical matter, I might start with an electrical tape triangle to mark the line. That way, if you feel more comfortable with a little more water, you can fine tune the line. My unscientific mind thinke water absorbsion should be fairly consistent. In the summer my basement has 49% humidity most of the time. I would keep a smaller jar of water handy on the off chance you might need it sometime.
My idea is simple consistency to provide enough water and almost no spillage. The turkey baster easily removed most of the water after I was through.
I will continue this experiment with the T4 and T8. In the interest of completeness, I should also check the Sb-250, SJ-250, and full diameter SG-250.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on June 29, 2016, 11:41:23 PM
The new truing tool is made in two models, the TT-50 and the TT-50U. The U stands for upgrade, and means that the diamond tip is not included. The idea is that someone with the older model might prefer to reuse his diamond and save roughly half the price. I consider this customer considerate marketing.
The TT-50U costs $69.
Herman,
Sharpeningsupplies lists the TT-50U for $61. Advanced Machinery sells it on their own website for $64. Affinity usually sells Tormek for list price.
My 2015 price list has the TT-50, the model with the diamond for $89. Unfortunately, the TT-50U is not shown on that list. I suggest you call Affinity Tool for the current list price. Affinity does not sell directly, however, they can tell you the proper price.
Where did you see the $69 price?
My "half" was a swag.
Ken
I thought so. Amazon prices are sometimes higher than list for Tormek, even if the transaction is handled through an authorized dealer. In this case, the handling dealer sells the same thing for $64.
That's one of the things I have tried to caution about. Always learn the correct Tormek list price first.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on July 02, 2016, 04:38:37 AM
I thought so. Amazon prices are sometimes higher than list for Tormek, even if the transaction is handled through an authorized dealer. In this case, the handling dealer sells the same thing for $64.
That's one of the things I have tried to caution about. Always learn the correct Tormek list price first.
Ken
One has to remember those selling on Amazon, have to pay Amazon. (why prices are sometimes higher there)
They are not the only ones.
On the baster idea, it was a simple solution, that was already invented, in part to keep ones hands out of hot stuff, and to fit into tight spots. I didn't as we might say, try to reinvent the shape of that Tormek wheel.
I tried the turkey baster today and it works quite well. The one I have removed 30 mL from my original SuperGrind 2000 water trough, just enough to help avoid spilling when removing the trough.
Herman, I believe the SADW's turkey baster idea will prove to be one of the best practical thoughts from the forum. It makes a major dent in a very old problem.
Ken
All you guys needed to do was learn to change the brake fluid on cars, and worry about dripping it on the paint job and you would have come up with this too.
The point is that we didn't and you did. I thought of the plumber with a much larger unit and children's medicine with a much smaller unit. You thought of the "just right" size unit.
Keep thinking. :)
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on July 02, 2016, 04:38:37 AM
I thought so. Amazon prices are sometimes higher than list for Tormek, even if the transaction is handled through an authorized dealer. In this case, the handling dealer sells the same thing for $64.
Ken, the $69 price includes shipping, even for those without an Amazon Prime account. It's fulfilled by Amazon but sold by Advanced Machinery. If I buy directly from Advanced Machinery the price is $64, but shipping is $9.95 bringing the total cost to $73.95.
Herman, the deal from Amazon may not be a bad deal. I know Free Shipping is the present buzz word. However, at that price, a more accurate description would be " shipping included". I am sure you could easily find higher prices online for the same item.
My point is that it is important to know the actual list price for an item, and, as you correctly state, the total price. Advanced Machinery does have free shipping above a certain minimum. By memory it may be one hundred dollars or something in that range. I believe it is essential to shop carefully.
The other thing to consider is whether to buy just the accessory and reuse your present diamond or just purchase the complete new unit. I would decide that on a case by case basis, considering the actual cost difference and the condition of your diamond.
Ken
UPDATE ON SADW'S TURKEY BASTER IDEA:
I tried using it with the T4. It works very well. My local Tormek dealer, Hartville Hardware, has a well stocked home and kitchen department. If I was purchasing a Tormek today, I would not leave the store without a turkey baster.
Ken