I've been away for a while and popped back in, and I see that everyone is using the "kenjig", which is apparently a "simple wooden jig". Interesting. The closest I could get was in this thread http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2639.0 (http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2639.0) for "a new angle setting tool".
So I did a search - not one thread with "kenjig" in the subject line! So now that there is such a thread, can someone reply with the design / photos / link to making and using this mythical jig? :)
Thanks for the question. There are instructions and photos posted on the forum. I will search for them, however, the search may take some time. Some members are more proficient with searching than I am. Help would be appreciated.
Ken
Kenjig is a simple but clever and useful jig/concept invented by Ken. :)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bye-818SN85DdzB3bU9aUU81eTg/view
You're correct, kenjig is a simple wooden block, which is used to set the edge angle for a knife in the Tormek knife jig. Ken suggested to use the projection length 139 mm, which for a 250 mm grindstone and 80 mm distance between the stone face and the universal support results in an edge angle 15 degrees.
I have modified the Ken's concept and suggested a double ended kenjig which enables to set the position of the universal support for both, the grindstone and the honing wheel. http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2654.0
I use the double ended kenjig regularly, and can confirm that setting the edge angle is much quicker and easier than with the Anglemaster. The only disadvantage is, that kenjig dimensions depend on the stone diameter.
Excel spreadsheet entitled "KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1" enables to calculate the wheel-support distance for given wheel radius, projection length and bevel angle. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypbtaxgycgoyls0/KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1.xlsb?dl=1
Jan
Wonderful! And I can see that a janjig is a double kenjig! :)
This is easy-peasy for me to make - thank you for the details!
Thanks, Jan.
The kenjig is designed to simplify set up. The wooden device itself is quite simple and easily made, however, it is based on solid math. Please post our thoughts after you use it for a while. (Questions are welcome, too.)
Ken
Refugio, you are welcome! :)
Jan
Quote from: Jan on January 03, 2016, 09:14:45 PM
Kenjig is a simple but clever and useful jig/concept invented by Ken. :)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bye-818SN85DdzB3bU9aUU81eTg/view
You're correct, kenjig is a simple wooden block, which is used to set the edge angle for a knife in the Tormek knife jig. Ken suggested to use the projection length 139 mm, which for a 250 mm grindstone and 80 mm distance between the stone face and the universal support results in an edge angle 15 degrees.
I have modified the Ken's concept and suggested a double ended kenjig which enables to set the position of the universal support for both, the grindstone and the honing wheel. http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2654.0
I use the double ended kenjig regularly, and can confirm that setting the edge angle is much quicker and easier than with the Anglemaster. The only disadvantage is, that kenjig dimensions depend on the stone diameter.
Excel spreadsheet entitled "KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1" enables to calculate the wheel-support distance for given wheel radius, projection length and bevel angle. https://www.dropbox.com/s/ypbtaxgycgoyls0/KENJIG_wheel_support_distance_1.xlsb?dl=1
Jan
Hello, I opened the link for the instructions on the Kenjig, but it only shows jigs for the T4 and T7, are the T7 and T8 the same, thinking about getting a T8.
Quote from: ericclement17 on November 22, 2017, 03:32:25 PM
Hello, I opened the link for the instructions on the Kenjig, but it only shows jigs for the T4 and T7, are the T7 and T8 the same, thinking about getting a T8.
Welcome to the forum.
Yes, the Kenjig will work for the T-8 as well... (same as the T-7).
Edit to add: If you're looking at options for setting the angle, also take a look at forum member wootz's option...
Computer Software for Setting the Angle (http://knifegrinders.com.au/05Equipment_scripts.htm)
One more option from forum member RichColvin (took me a few to find the link)...
USB Distance Calculator (http://sharpeninghandbook.info/indexCalcProj.html)
Eric, CBwx is correct, Kenjig concept and my Excel script work for all models of Tormek grinders. :)
Provided you use the Tormek knife jig and universal support bar (12 mm) it is applicable also for bench grinders! ;)
Jan
Eric, you ask a very good question. I have never actually seen the answer in print. There are essentially two groups of Tormek models, those with 200mm diameter grinding wheels and those with 250mm diameter grinding wheels. Except for the grinding wheels and universal supports, all jigs and accessories are completely interchangeable.
The Kenjig uses the tables Dutchman posted on the forum several years ago. Fortunately, Dutchman is not as wordy as I am, so a search of his posts will quickly locate his tables. I recommend downloading and printing them.
The little steel plate in the photo is what I call a substitute target. I find it an easier to use auxialliary method than just the Anglemaster. Both methods can be used. Use your judgement; the practical one for the situation wins. For those who want more precision, Wootz' Knifegrinders computer program is excellent.
I designed the kenjig with maximum simplicity in mind. It can be made for any angle and wheel diameter. Fifteen or twenty degrees will probably completely satisfy most users. I like Jan's double ended design. It is a definite improvement, but requires slightly more presence of mind. In the interest of simplicity, I might lean toward to two clearly labelled kenjigs.
Do post your thoughts.
Ken
I'll add... if you have some time, read thru the "math" and diagrams that Jan, wootz, Dutchman, and others have posted. I don't understand it all... :-[ but everytime I read it... I get a little more benefit from it. Lots of good info.
CB,
You gave me a good laugh! I agree that serious study of the math and diagrams is worthwhile. Like, my high school math from forty nine years ago doesn't always give me full understanding. I did take the time to understand Dutchman's tables; it was time well spent, and gives me insight into the other forum math and diagrams.
This math has helped push back the frontiers of Tormek knowledge.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on November 22, 2017, 05:31:25 PM
Eric, you ask a very good question. I have never actually seen the answer in print. There are essentially two groups of Tormek models, those with 200mm diameter grinding wheels and those with 250mm diameter grinding wheels. Except for the grinding wheels and universal supports, all jigs and accessories are completely interchangeable.
The Kenjig uses the tables Dutchman posted on the forum several years ago. Fortunately, Dutchman is not as wordy as I am, so a search of his posts will quickly locate his tables. I recommend downloading and printing them.
The little steel plate in the photo is what I call a substitute target. I find it an easier to use auxialliary method than just the Anglemaster. Both methods can be used. Use your judgement; the practical one for the situation wins. For those who want more precision, Wootz' Knifegrinders computer program is excellent.
I designed the kenjig with maximum simplicity in mind. It can be made for any angle and wheel diameter. Fifteen or twenty degrees will probably completely satisfy most users. I like Jan's double ended design. It is a definite improvement, but requires slightly more presence of mind. In the interest of dimplicity, I might lean toward to two clearly labelled kenjigs.
Do post your thoughts.
Ken
Well I am the definition of a newbie, but I will check everything out. I found the original Kenjig instructions, but as I said, it was for the T7. I am more of a hands on guy; with that being said, I am brushing up on my trigonometry to understand angles and such. I am new to this. As I have said I am starting my own knife sharpening company, an LLC. Should be up and running in 3-4 months, and no I will not solicit my company on here, it is more of a local small business company, luckily I live in Westchester NY, where there is a restaurant and deli on every corner. However, I am into woodworking, so I want to expand my company as far as I can. So me being here is simply for information, not solicitation. I also will be using other sharpening tools for a more commercial use. But I got my hands on a T8 from a friend and fell in love, so now I have to have one. I am firm believer in buy once, buy right. So I will use the Tormek on a daily basis. Also because I am good with wood, and want to expand my sharpening business to helping local woodworkers.
Thank you for the information. Much appreciated.
Eric Clement
Eric,
The best advice I could give anyone starting a sharpening business is Steve Bottorff's Sharpening School DVD. When Steve was approaching retirement, he had a DVD made to serve as a substitute for the individual training he had done for years. I have watched Steve's DVD countless times. I also spent a day with him at his home and shop. Steve ran a sharpening business including farmers markets and foody locations for many years. He is not only a sharpening expert, he is also a very experienced, dedicated teacher. His technique is Tormek based, but not limited to Tormek. He has a highly developed sense of what works in the field. He has trained three hundred students and equipped them to begin their own sharpening businesses.
Check out his website (sharpeningmadeeasy.com).
Don't be shy about asking questions on the forum.
Best of luck.
Ken
psI know two very capable professional who do not sharpen their own tools. I think there is potential in the woodworking tool sharpening business.
Good luck with your business.
Regarding the 'basics': see https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849.0 (https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1849.0)
You could give the 'inventor' the honor for his first work on this approach ;)
Dutchman,
You are quite correct. The name "kenjig" was never my intention. I originally called it
KS-150 for Knife Setting tool, 150mm length. (Any resembelence between KS and Ken S was purely coincidental :) ) Sweden asked me to change the name, correctly noting that it might be mistaken as an official Tormek product. I understand this, and ran a naming contest on the forum. "Kenjig" was one of two or three entries. It is simple and easily remembered. The winner received a free jig. For the record, I have given away perhaps a dozen of the jigs. The only ledger items would be postal expenses which I paid. I have never made any money on Tormek items.
Anyone reading any of my posts of emails referring to the kenjig concept would see that I have always clearly stated that it is based on your writing and that the reader should download and print your work. Before I read your work, my chisel and plane blade application was based on trial and error. It worked, but lacked your mathematical precision.
I think it is proper that the name of the tool reflect the rightful inventor. I will happily endorse whatever name you choose.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on November 23, 2017, 01:36:11 PM
...
I think it is proper that the name of the tool reflect the rightful inventor. I will happily endorse whatever name you choose.
...
The name of YOUR Kenjig is not my point. However, someone asks what that tool is, and then it seems logical to me that the principle concept is explained first, before considering the realisation as a tool. ;)
By the way, how long is someone considered to be a 'newbie'. Is that e.g. related to the number of words in his posts or on the value of his contributions? 8)
Quote from: Dutchman on November 23, 2017, 02:53:02 PM
By the way, how long is someone considered to be a 'newbie'. Is that e.g. related to the number of words in his posts or on the value of his contributions? 8)
If it were "value of contributions"... you would already be a "hero member". ;)
(Unfortunately, it's based on the number of posts). ???
Agreed.
Ken
I think it is Dutchman's hat ! Carrying off that look these days makes one my hero !
Rich
Quote from: Ken S on November 23, 2017, 01:36:11 PM
Dutchman,
You are quite correct. The name "kenjig" was never my intention. I originally called it
KS-150 for Knife Setting tool, 150mm length. (Any resembelence between KS and Ken S was purelu coincidental :) ) Sweden asked me to change the name, correctly noting that it might be mistaken as an official Tormek product. I understand this, and ran a naming contest on the forum. "Kenjig" was one of two or three entries. It is simple and easily remembered. The winner received a free jig. For the record, I have given away perhaps a dozen of the jigs. The only ledger items would be postal expenses which I paid. I have never made any money on Tormek items.
Anyone reading any of my posts of emails referring to the kenjig concept would see that I have always clearly stated that it is based on your writing and that the reader should download and print your work. Before I read your work, my chisel and plane blade application was based on trial and error. It worked, but lacked your mathematical precision.
I think it is proper that the name of the tool reflect the rightful inventor. I will happily endorse whatever name you choose.
Ken
My suggestion in the naming contest on the forum was "Kenda jig" where the syllable "da" was phonetic reminder of Dutchman's tables.
Jan
Dutchman,
I was the winner of the naming contest, as I though based on Ken's plans, it was appropriate.
That doesn't make the science behind it of any less value.
Newbie, in the forums software (used on LOTS of forums) is based SOLELY on POST COUNT.
By the way, SADW, what are your thoughts after using the kenjig? Please be honest. I have given away perhaps a dozen or twenty, and have never received any feedback. I do know that they are popular among sharpeners in the Czech Republic, due to Jan. Jan understands the math behind the jig far more deeply than I do.
I have worked with Dutchman's work enough to realize that his concept is not limited to knives or to just a 139mm projection. I have always thought the concept would be ideally suited for carving tools. It would need several jigs, perhaps one for each tool. These would be easily and quickly made and would make set up and sharpening very fast and repeatable. I routinely use Dutchman's concept with chisels and plane blades.
Ken
To be honest, I never tried it. As they are not my knives, but those from my friends restaurant, I wasn't willing to screw them up. I knew if I screwed things up with the Tormek way, it would be due to an off angle (not measuring each knife individually) and I could correct that.
I do need to find where I put it all, as my shop went into a state of confusion in a re arrranging while I am changing its location.
Quote from: Ken S on November 24, 2017, 03:06:09 PM
By the way, SADW, what are your thoughts after using the kenjig? Please be honest. I have given away perhaps a dozen or twenty, and have never received any feedback. I do know that they are popular among sharpeners in the Czech Republic, due to Jan. Jan understands the math behind the jig far more deeply than I do.
Ken
Ken, you are correct, the kenjig concept fell on a fertile soil here. One guy made plywood jig for mounting the knife with the projection length 139 mm and at same time setting the knife tip according to my setting template. See the first two attached images.
Even more attention awoke my modification of the TTS-100 jig for knives. https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3323.msg19930#msg19930
The third attached image shows new implementation of the idea.
Jan
Excellent, Jan. Your reply came in while I was typing.
Ken
The first draft of this was lost.
SADW, I appreciate your honest reply. I suspect most of the jigs I have given away have never been used. It is a set up tool. You do not even need to grind to see how it works.Try it; you might like it. :)
Ken
Quote from: Jan on November 24, 2017, 04:55:10 PM
Ken, you are correct, the kenjig concept fell on a fertile soil here. One guy made plywood jig for mounting the knife with the projection length 139 mm and at same time setting the knife tip according to my setting template. See the first two attached images.
Even more attention awoke my modification of the TTS-100 jig for knives. https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=3323.msg19930#msg19930
The third attached image shows new implementation of the idea.
Jan
Maybe I'm missing something here... but the modifications, especially that third picture, seems like an awful lot of work on something that will change when the wheel size changes? Is it adjustable somehow, or am I not looking at it right? (Also, is there two for the two different size machines)?
(https://forum.tormek.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2803.0;attach=1282)
CB, the point is that the angle setting using Tormek TTS-100 and also using my modification for knives is independent on stone diameter! ;)
Jan
Quote from: Jan on November 24, 2017, 08:08:09 PM
CB, the point is that the angle setting using Tormek TTS-100 and also using my modification for knives is independent on stone diameter! ;)
Jan
Ah... I had to think about it, but I think I got it. Not having a TTS-100, I had to look at the book and think about it.
I thought the TTS-100 kept the same distance from USB to stone like the Kenjig... but am I right that it actually changes the distance based on stone size?
The two small wheels self correct the jig for diameter changes. In my opinion, the TTS-100 is Tormek's most advanced setting tool by a wide margin. I have used it with chisels and plane blades since 2010, It was, combined with Dutchman's tables, the basis for the kenjig. I keep hoping Tormek will use it, their own idea, and expand it as a separate tool for setting chisels, knives, planes, etc.
The kenjig is a simplified tool. The notch for setting the Distance must be enlarged when needed to keep it matching Dutchman's tables. I would have preferred to include a self correcting feature. Part of the target user pool is new or very occasional users who will not wear down much. By the time the stone starts to wear significantly, the user should be skilled enough to lengthen the Distance notch.
Good question, CB. And, good reply, Jan. Keep thinking!
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on November 24, 2017, 10:02:32 PM
The two small wheels self correct the jig for diameter changes. In my opinion, the TTS-100 is Tormek's most advanced setting tool by a wide margin. I have used it with chisels and plane blades since 2010, It was, combined with Dutchman's tables, the basis for the kenjig. I keep hoping Tormek will use it, their own idea, and expand it as a separate tool for setting chisels, knives, planes, etc.
The kenjig is a simplified tool. The notch for setting the Distance must be enlarged when needed to keep it matching Dutchman's tables. I would have preferred to include a self correcting feature. Part of the target user pool is new or very occasional users who will not wear down much. By the time the stone starts to wear significantly, the user should be skilled enough to lengthen the Distance notch.
Good question, CB. And, good reply, Jan. Keep thinking!
Ken
Cool. Now it all makes sense.
I love it when the lightbulb comes on.... ;D
I agree. With me, it sometimes takes a while, however, it is worth the struggle.
Ken