I've just bought a used T2000 and am trying to replace the shaft which is rusted to the wheel. I've got the whole shaft and wheel out of the machine with the nut and outside washer off. I've read everything on the forum. I've put it in a vise with the shaft sticking down and banged on the shaft with a hammer. No movement. There is a washer on the backside of the stone that looks like it has rusted to the shaft, or is it meant to be integral? Does the shaft just go straight through the stone, or is there something else holding it? I'd rather not have to buy a new stone since this one is good. Any other advice? Heating shaft?
Thanks for any help.
Welcome to the forum, Mark. Herman is our resident rusted shaft expert. I haven't had the problem (my shaft is a newer stainless steel model.)
I have wondered if applying radial pressure on the shaft might be better than trying to pound it out. With a pipe wrench or something similar on the shaft, try gradually trying to turn the shaft. Easy does it.
Hopefully Herman or the moderator will chime it.
Good luck.
Ken
Just some ideas:
Along Ken's idea, could you put an impact driver on the nut?
Hey Mr. Stig, would penetrating oil hurt the stone? Exactly how is the hub attached to the stone? Just glue? Is the hub OD ribbed or otherwise grips the stone?
Pipe wrench on the shaft sounds good and put the wrench in a vise and turn the wheel. If the wrench will not hold, could you grind two flats on the shaft and use a wrench to turn it. You might try heating the shaft near the hub and then quenching in water. Maybe it would expand the shaft just a tad and the sudden cool down would break the bond created by the rust. That is a little extreme though. Holding the shaft with a wrench and using a hammer drill or impact driver sounds pretty good.
Quote from: jeffs55 on October 21, 2014, 05:37:27 AM
...could you grind two flats on the shaft and use a wrench to turn it...
I like that idea. You could also chuck the shaft into a vise and put a large strap wrench around the wheel. That would give lots of leverage. I think we're all assuming that the shaft is going to be ruined with any of these ideas and that you'll be upgrading to the stainless shaft so this doesn't happen again. ;)
Hi,
dont use force!
Put some WD-40/5-56 on both sides, let in work over night. Give the shaft a light knock with a plastic hammer. Put more WD-40/5-56 on and do the same thing over again. It will work after a couple times. If its bad it can take some days, but normally it works over night.
Patience is the key :-)
Stig
Good idea, Stig. Gentler is safer.
Ken
Thank you guys. I will try some of your ideas, but I still have this question:
How is the wheel held to the shaft? Does it just slide straight through and held by pressure between the two large washers and nut?
I got the nut off with an impact wrench which stripped the nut but that's ok since I am replacing the shaft. I but WD 40 between shaft and stone and hit with hammer. No budge. I left sitting with WD-40 overnite and will now go see if I can tap it out. I'll go with the gentle idea until I get really frustrated, as I'd like to save the wheel.
Quote from: mark.horowitz@comcast.net on October 21, 2014, 07:59:00 PM
How is the wheel held to the shaft? Does it just slide straight through and held by pressure between the two large washers and nut?
I got the nut off with an impact wrench which stripped the nut but that's ok since I am replacing the shaft. I but WD 40 between shaft and stone and hit with hammer. No budge. I left sitting with WD-40 overnite and will now go see if I can tap it out. I'll go with the gentle idea until I get really frustrated, as I'd like to save the wheel.
That is how it is held. The late, prior owner of mine, chipped his wheel, fighting to get it off the shaft. (when I got it, it had a brand new wheel and the chipped one) Herm has fought his, but you have probably read his posts. My only other thought, since your replacing the shaft, is drill a hole in something flat, for the stone to sit on and the shaft to go through, then bolt some kind of weight to the other side, to pull with gravity, while sitting with WD40, or some kind of penetrate on the stone end.
Also, something like Liquid Wrench, PB Blaster, or Kroil may help more, or more quickly, than WD40.
Yea, as long as the products other than WD-40 don't have ingredients that could mess with the adhesives in the wheel. I have no clue, but maybe Stig recommended WD-40 specifically for a reason?
Sometimes penetrating oil can take days to work. One time I soaked a very rusty pair of locking pliers in penetrating oil for 5 days before they finally loosened up. But eventually they did.
Quote from: mark.horowitz@comcast.net on October 21, 2014, 12:13:26 AM
There is a washer on the backside of the stone that looks like it has rusted to the shaft, or is it meant to be integral?
It's not integral. It's likely rusted to both the shaft and the grindstone.
QuoteDoes the shaft just go straight through the stone, or is there something else holding it?
It just slides through, but it's likely rusted. I would take Stig's advice and keep applying a penetrating oil.
This is pure conjecture, but I wonder if it might be helpful to wrap the grindstone with a band clamp to keep it from breaking apart as you try to free the main shaft. By the way, what's the diameter of the grindstone? I'm just curious as it indicates its value as well as the machine's usage.
OK sportsfans, another episode in "Mark's Believe it or Not"
I used Liquid Wrench and WD-40 at different times and let soak for two nights. I tapped on the shaft but it didn't budge. I put the wheel in the vise and used a pipe wrench on the long side of the shaft. The shaft broke off at the wheel clean at the wheel without moving in the wheel at all! The wheel is still intact so I am soaking what remains of the shaft in Liquid Wrench overnight again. The Liquid Wrench seems to be soaking into the stone around the shaft. If it doesn't come out with a few strong taps tomorrow, I will start trying to drill out the shaft without enlarging the hole unless anyone has other suggestions.
BTW, the stone is now 223 mm diameter. I think it's still worth trying to save it, don't you?
Thanks for all of your suggestions. Clearly, designing a new shaft was a great idea for Tormek.
Place the stone on a flat surface and using progressively larger drill bits, drill into the shaft and make a large hole. Use the unbroken end so it will be flat and you can find the center easier. If you can center the first hole, you have it licked. at some point the drilled hole will become so large that you can remove it. You may have to use a tap to turn into it and thread it. Simply "strip" out the hole you have made with the tap and remove the destroyed shaft. Obviously you will have to come very close to the shaft diameter to make it thin enough to be able to remove it.
I would try to use threds to puch the stone out. Use lots of washers or a pipe between the knut and the stone and puch it out. You will get so much force with a wrench.
Used this method on hydralic servosterings on boats, you get more force than with a sledgehammer.
Dont know exacly how it looks, but its worth a try. Its easier to make new threds than drilling a hole.
As I wrote earlier, patience and WD-40/5-556 works but can take some days.
I would try to save the stone as well as it´s many years of use left in it. I have never used Liquid Wrench and can´t say if it works. I´m a bit concerned that it can affect the bushing in some way.
Stig
I would also continue to try saving the stone at 223mm its got plenty of life left and expensive to replace.
One of the properties of WD-40 ("Water Displacing") is that it is not designed for long term lubrication or rust prevention. In the case of the rusted shaft and grinding wheel, this is a good property. I don't know what the long term effects of Liquid Wrench or other products are. With a stuck bolt, a bit of long term lubrication is probably a good property. On a grinding wheel, I would think not. Since we have a known useful product in WD-40, I would stick with it.
Ken
Quote from: mark.horowitz@comcast.net on October 22, 2014, 04:06:47 AM
I will start trying to drill out the shaft without enlarging the hole unless anyone has other suggestions.
I think that's the best strategy. Make sure the grindstone is well supported as it's likely to break near the center where it's been weakened by rust and penetrating oil.
QuoteBTW, the stone is now 223 mm diameter. I think it's still worth trying to save it, don't you?
Very much so, yes. Those grindstones are very expensive. Once you get it mounted up in a new stainless steel main shaft and trued it should give you years of service.
Hi Mark, I haven't posted here in a awhile but I do stop in to read once in awhile. Your post caught my attention as I had the same problem, well sort of the same problem. I bought my Tormek probably twenty years ago, non-stainless shaft, and never once did I remove the stone from the shaft (big mistake). Then one day I noticed a crack in the wheel, I tried to take the stone off the shaft but it was no use. Now, my stone had a fair amount of wear on it and being that it was cracked I saw little sense in trying to save it. I tried some of the tactics you did to remove the shaft but all my efforts failed and my stone broke into three pieces. The point of this post is that after seeing how my shaft was "bonded" to the stone I have very serious doubts about you saving your stone. It was almost as if the shaft and the stone had become one, I never would have imagined that two very different materials could form such a bond. Other than drilling out the steel as you've already tried I see no other way to save the stone. Just was wondering how you made out.
Now, on another topic, and the real reason I came to the forum today, was to share a funny story.
I was cleaning out an old storage cabinet in my work shop today when I noticed the end of an old Tormek box sticking out from under a pile junk. The end of the box said SVH-320 and thought for sure it was just an old, empty box form one of the many jigs I had purchased with the original unit. Upon extracting the box I was shocked almost beyond words when I realized that the box wasn't empty. Inside the old box was a brand new, un-used Planer/Jointer sharpening jig. Price tag on the said $134.95, I felt like I had just hit lotto. Perhaps my dementia is worse than I thought it was! I cannot remember buying it. Now here's the funny part, last year when my stone broke I almost bought this jig along with a new shaft and wheel but finally decided that for nearly a couple of hundred bucks I might be better off just buying new blades. I can't even imagine how I would have felt today if I had in fact purchased this jig last year. Course, I probably could have sold this one for what I originally paid for it so I suppose there would have been some consolation for being such an old fool.
I second the impact wrench impact hammer idea based on my experience below.
I can use the impact wrench to drive screws that were so soft, the philips head on the screw would have stripped if I tried to screw it in with a regular driver. However, using an impact wrench, I was able to screw it in and out of wood like a knife through butter and not a mark on the philips head screw. Things worked so well that after another job using square head screws, I found the screw driver bit actually bent. But all the screws went in fine. The impact wrench works so well, I have to constantly remind myself not to allow it to go too far and strip the nuts and bolts. And it is really easy on the hands, I don't really feel I need to counteract the torque generated by the impacts.
So my guess is that some WD40 for a few days, followed by an impact hammering device (palm nailer about $40 at home depot) may be able to loosen it. Of course, it requires you to also have an air compressor.
Just a thought. Never actually done it. But I am impressed by all those impacting tool.