Hi guys, I needed to know exactly how to sharpen a serrated knife on the T-7, I've read that it's possible, but I wanted to know if there are any techniques or steps that are different from sharpening a plane edge knife. different for fully serrated and partially serrated? Let me know, thanks
Check to see if there's a bevel on one side. Grind that bevel on that one side only. The scallops on the other sine can be honed on the edges of the leather honing wheel.
So grind the back side of the serrations and hone the serrations themselves on the leather honing wheel? I'm not quite understanding which side of the serrations should go on the grinding wheel. Also is there a youtube video of anyone doing this? Thanks a lot!
Welcome to the forum.
I'll offer a different approach. I have a Henckel bread knife with fairly large serrations. While I like the Tormek for my other kitchen knives, I'm not a fan of grinding the non bevelled side of the blade.
I use a quarter inch piece of dowel with some adhesive backed abrasive attached. I use it like a file. Filing each serration might seem like a lot of work. One foot in front of the other and soon the journey has been completed. Ten minutes will see much of the job done.
Chose a dowel whits a little loosely in the serrations. An alternative would be to use a piece of wood approximately 3/4" x 1/4" thick (or whatever fits your knife) and sand the edge round. Attach the adhesive abrasive paper or (probably better) use diamond paste. I would start with the coarse diamond paste and use a second stick for medium grit paste.
For inexpensive knives I might not bother with this. Do be sure to grade your wheel fine and work slowly. You can always go back for a second pass. With experience you will get a feel for how much pressure to use. Start light.
Incidentally, the other serrated edge blade I used to own was a Henckel tomato knife. To my surprise, my chef's knife does a very good job with tomatoes after sharpening it with the Tormek.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Ken
Quote from: Brosenfeld86 on August 27, 2013, 09:50:29 AM
So grind the back side of the serrations and hone the serrations themselves on the leather honing wheel? I'm not quite understanding which side of the serrations should go on the grinding wheel. Also is there a youtube video of anyone doing this? Thanks a lot!
The flat side is the side that you grind. Then you hone both sides on the leather honing wheel, using the edge of the honing wheel in the scallops. This video gives you the right idea, even though there's no Tormek machine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCqby2dO3_Q
Thanks for all the great advice guys! I also wanted to know if you sharpen a serrated blade with the same angle as you would a regular knife? will 20 degrees be good on a standard serrated blade? Thanks again!
I think the correct way, and someone please correct me if I'm wrong, is to use a tapered round file on the side with the scallops and match the existing angle. Then strop any burring on either side.
If you just grind the back side of the blade, eventually it will end up simply removing the the tips and ultimately turn the knife into a flat blade.
I suppose you could round the edge of the grinding wheel...
Quote from: Brosenfeld86 on August 28, 2013, 09:00:21 AM
Thanks for all the great advice guys! I also wanted to know if you sharpen a serrated blade with the same angle as you would a regular knife? will 20 degrees be good on a standard serrated blade? Thanks again!
As the guy in the video mentioned, the angle on his knife was about 10
o, if I recall correctly.
Regardless, you'll want to match whatever angle is already there. Use the marker method, as described in that video and also in the Tormek literature. You color the bevel with a marker. Then touch it to the grinder and look to see if you're grinding the bevel evenly all the way across.
You'll have to either free hand it or use one of the homemade jigs such as the HK-50.
Quote from: grepper on August 28, 2013, 08:43:15 PM
If you just grind the back side of the blade, eventually it will end up simply removing the the tips and ultimately turn the knife into a flat blade.
That's very true, Mark. I'm talking about sharpening my cheap Ecko bread knife. I've had it for over 25 years I think, and have sharpened it only once or twice.
I have an old Ecko too Herman. It's a long slicer knife. I use it for experimentation and do mean and horrible things to it.
It's some sort of polished steel, and it's hard as nails! It resists all of my torture devices and abrasives. I can see why you have only had to sharpen yours a couple of times in 25 years!
I have an old Flint "sandwich knife". It belonged to my father, and probably dates to around 1950. I keep it in a slot with the other knives for sentimental reasons and to open letters. It was dull enough so that the "sharp" edge could almost be measured with a radius gage.
Recently I ran it through the Tormek. It now does amazing things with letters and opening cereal boxes. I had no idea the old knife was capable of such things!
Ken
I think I read somewhere that the parts that gets blunted are the tips of the serrations. Therefore, if you don't care about maintaining the shape, just sharpening the knife like a regular knife will sharpen the tips and solve your problem.
Just sharing. Not advocating. Have not actually studied the problem and I don't know if this is a true fact.
I like to maintain things, that's why I've never bought a serrated knife unless forced to (like buying a set of knives).
Video how we sharpen serrated kitchen knives, bread knives etc
https://youtu.be/T4LItIdH-FI (https://youtu.be/T4LItIdH-FI)
As much as I like my idea of using wooden dowels, Wootz' technique is head and shoulders above my simple idea. Anyone wishing to do a quality job of sharpening serrated knives should pay close attention to Wootz' video.
Ken
I forget who said it but to me that was "much ado about nothing". The dowel method is superior if only because the blade will last longer. I sort of doubt anyone is going to grind their bread knife into filings but it will happen sooner than your method. Oh yeah, there is a language known as American but that guy spoke English and was hard to understand.
Quote from: wootz on May 04, 2019, 01:47:56 PM
Video how we sharpen serrated kitchen knives, bread knives etc
https://youtu.be/T4LItIdH-FI (https://youtu.be/T4LItIdH-FI)
Excellent!
Jeff,
Different sharpening methods cater to different target markets and expectations. When I started using my wooden dowel technique several years ago, the two common forum options for serrated knives were grinding the flat (unserrated) side of the knife or, for inexpensive knives, discarding them. The theory behind discarding the knife was that a customer would be reluctant to pay much to sharpen a cheap knife. Expectations were low.
In my case, the only serrated knife I sharpen is my Henckel bread knife. I just checked pricing a new replacement. At $79 US, I think my slower dowel method is worth the effort. Knowing what I now know about edge retention, if I lived in Australia, I would definitely hire Knife Grinders to sharpen it. Wootz' technique using flint hard wheels and multiple grinding angles is clearly superior. Deburring individual serrations is time consuming. I would expect to pay a premium fee for this service. In return for my premium fee, I would receive a premium sharpening job which would stay sharp for a very long time, much longer than my dowel method.
A quality flint hard wheel costs about the same as a new Henckel knife. For a professional sharpening service like Knife Grinders, that is cost effective. For a home hobby sharpener like me who sharpens one serrated knife. Pretending that a flint hard wheel is cost effective for me is what Mark Twain might describe as "a stretcher". I suspect I will probably invest in a flint hard wheel as part of my learning process. I want to keep my sharpening knowledge cutting edge. Wootz' pioneering work is definitely the cutting edge of knife sharpening. In my opinion, he has raised the bar far beyond what Tormek thought was possible.
Ken
Quote from: SHARPCO on May 06, 2019, 08:44:35 AM
Quote from: wootz on May 04, 2019, 01:47:56 PM
Video how we sharpen serrated kitchen knives, bread knives etc
https://youtu.be/T4LItIdH-FI (https://youtu.be/T4LItIdH-FI)
Excellent!
While we are discussing raising the bar for sharpening, Sharpco sets a very high bar for sharpening videos. I just found his very informative new videos on rust prevention and honing with Jende products. As I have come to expect from Sharpco, his technique is very solid and his video quality is superb. His you tube channel is definitely on my preferred list.
Ken
Here is what you need in a bread knife for only $24, I have it and love it. Ever tried to cut loaf bread on the diagonal? Blade too short? Not with this thing, 14 inches and razor sharp. Sharp serrations will cut right through. $24. Oh, did I mention it is only $24? https://www.amazon.com/Fat-Daddios-Bread-Knives-Inches/dp/B001TK2ZGC/ref=sr_1_2?crid=3OF4W1LNWZDV7&keywords=fat+daddio+bread+knife&qid=1557134355&s=gateway&sprefix=fat+daddio+%2Caps%2C150&sr=8-2
It is all very good, but unless you have much harder bread than I do, or possibly use a carbide steel bread board.. sharpening a bread knife is a once a decade task, so I sharpen on the flat side gently de burr on the serrated side and forget about it for a decade, if I need a new knife ever 30 years I don't really mind... and am certainly not going to tool up and master techniques to prolong it's life. If however I was sharpening for multiple people and had multiple serrations to work on, I would probably design a machine especially for it... :)
Pete, How dare you introduce practicality to a perfectly good quest. ;)
I think we have to consider both the use and the end user. With you and me, we just want our bread knives to cut better, which they do with minimal effort.
A customer walking into an establishment like Knife Grinders would justifiably have higher expectations. When I ran my small photo darkroom business, I educated my customers to expect much higher quality photos than the local quick processor provided. Just as not everyone expected or needed archival quality custom photographic prints, not everyone expects or wants to pay for Knife Grinders level of sharpening. I'm sure the same diversity of expectations exists with woodturning.
Do most of us need superbly sharp bread knives? Certainly not, however, there are those who value that level of quality workmanship, just like there are turners who carefully hone and polish their gouges.
Ken
Ken, I was just getting a bit concerned that the bread in the UK was sub standard, and should have texture like rubber or leather thus requiring a higher level of sharpness ;)
But on that subject, sharpness is always to an appropriate level my skew chisel, or bowl gouge will require anyone touching them inappropriately to apply sticking plasters. BUT they are are not as sharp as my hand chisel's or carving chisels.
Simple mathematics says if I am turning say an average of a 10" diameter bowl at 1000rpm I am looking to take about 15 yards a second in shavings, that would take me about a month to cut by hand, so therefore an appropriate amount of extra time will be put into the sharpening of hand tools... also if I was to aim to have such a razor edge on my lathe tools they would be too fine, and worn after a matter of seconds meaning I would spend too much time maintaining the edge, and not enough time reducing trees to sawdust and shavings, which is the principle use of sharp things in my world.
Pete,
I whole-heartedly agree with your notes on turning tools !
Kind regards,
Rich
Before I got my Tormek, I typically sharpened our kitchen knives (Henckels) "quick and dirty" using a 320 grit band on my dynafile. So recently I sharpened them all on my Tormek and my wife was impressed! shortly after however, she started to complain about the bread knife. On inspecting it I saw that nearly all of the serrations had been reduced to almost nothing - obviously due to overly aggressive "sharpening" on both sides of the knife. Yesterday I had at it with a round file and easily restored the knife to a useable condition. Unfortunaately, I only had a round bastard file, so a Pferd round smooth file is in the mail for me to finish the job.
Anyway, bottom line - restoring the scalloped areas is quite easy with a round file, I used a 12" file and the radius was close enough.
Good job !
I did restore a bread knife using an "affordable" ;) round file from a well known Chinese website (ask me for the link if you need). Took me a few minutes to get the scalloped side nice and clean. I then used a 2500 sanding paper for the flat side, nice and gently.