Tormek Community Forum

In the Shop => General Tormek Questions => Topic started by: MakerUnknown on June 07, 2013, 06:50:17 PM

Title: Shaft removal problems
Post by: MakerUnknown on June 07, 2013, 06:50:17 PM
Hello everybody.  New here.  Real name is Paul, I live in San Francisco.

I've had a Tormek since the mid 90's or so (the green Super Grind 2000) and recently it's been squealing and then stopping.  The manual suggests removing the stone and pulling out the shaft using the honing wheel.  Here, Jeff says remove the honing wheel and pull out using the attached stone.
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1472.0

Two problems.  One, I can't remove the stone....seems to be frozen on the shaft.  Two, using Jeff's method of first removing the honing wheel doesn't work either because I can't budge the shaft.
Any tricks or tips?  Can I just shoot in some spray lubricant on the shaft hoping it works inside to the bearings and forget about trying to get the shaft off?

http://cargocollective.com/makerunknown
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: MakerUnknown on June 07, 2013, 08:43:33 PM
Upon closer inspection underneath, there is a protrusion on the Main Shaft, next to the stone that would make it impossible to remove the shaft by pulling it out on the stone side of the machine.
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: MakerUnknown on June 07, 2013, 10:57:35 PM
Well, I got off both the stone and the shaft but no without a lot of sweat and swearing.  The shaft nearest the stone was very corroded.  The corrosion had formed large very hard bulges within the stone and within the nylon bearing.  The bulge within the bearing is what was causing the squealing and the stoppage.
Ordered a new stainless shaft.
I owe myself a shot of Fernet after all the effort put into pulling off the stone.  I had to clamp the Drive Wheel in my bench to prevent it from spinning, hold down the machine with my foot and twisting and pulling up at the same time on the stone.  Very difficult to get it off.
Paul
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Mike Fairleigh on June 08, 2013, 07:02:26 AM
Welcome, Paul.  The stainless shaft is the bomb diggity.

Your photography is beautiful.  I hope mine is as good someday.
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Ken S on June 08, 2013, 11:09:42 AM
Another welcome, Paul.  Great job removing your shaft; patience and skill, quite a winning team. 

I swapped out the shaft on my original Tormek.  In my case it was an upgrade from a stainless to a stainless EZYlock shaft.  I really like the EZYlock, and think you will, too.

If you transport your Tormek, you will find the new shaft makes it much easier to remove the wheel.

I also second Mike's comment about your photos.

When I arrived in Ohio from New Jersey, I had to learn the midwestern dialect.  Either "the bomb diggity" is a carryover from the pioneer days or I'm still in the last millennium and language has moved on.  Mike, would you please translate for us Neanderthals?

Again, welcome, Paul.

Ken
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Rob on June 08, 2013, 03:10:40 PM
bomb diggity...was just about to ask the same question.  That's gotta be in the "dag nabbit" category surely :-)
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Herman Trivilino on June 08, 2013, 05:26:13 PM
Quote from: MakerUnknown on June 07, 2013, 10:57:35 PM
I owe myself a shot of Fernet after all the effort put into pulling off the stone.  I had to clamp the Drive Wheel in my bench to prevent it from spinning, hold down the machine with my foot and twisting and pulling up at the same time on the stone.  Very difficult to get it off.

You're lucky.  I broke my grindstone under exactly the same circumstances.

http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=929.0

The stainless steel main shaft is a nice upgrade.

The lessons I learned are keep the bearings lightly lubricated and empty the water trough after each session.
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: MakerUnknown on June 08, 2013, 07:29:47 PM
Thanks for the welcomes...and for the photo comments.  That's what I do for a living so I hope I do it somewhat ok... :)
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Mike Fairleigh on June 08, 2013, 09:49:33 PM
Bomb diggity: Kansan slang for "wonderful upgrade" (commonly used in the more intellectual parts of the United States).  Synonymous with "great piece of kit" (commonly used in the United Kingdom).   ;D
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: jeffs55 on June 09, 2013, 09:45:36 AM
I have heard it said as "hot diggity" but never knew how to spell it until now! That meant, "yeah", "alright" or some other such superlative outburst.
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Mike Fairleigh on June 09, 2013, 10:13:47 AM
Yes, "hot diggity" is an exclamation, whereas "bomb diggity" is a descriptive noun.  Y'all.  ;)
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Rob on June 10, 2013, 01:27:17 AM
well dag nabbit ya cotton pickin varmints...coo coo Flash :-)
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Herman Trivilino on June 10, 2013, 03:43:24 AM
Hot diggity dog.
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: MakerUnknown on June 13, 2013, 01:04:59 AM
New stainless shaft came today.  Installed it, one of the new nylon washers was tight, the other one was a bit loose.  Not sure if that is why there's a slight wobble in the system now or maybe I tweaked things during my Herculean effort to free up the old shaft.
It's not too bad though and I finished what I started a few days ago....sharpening my planer blades.

Just an aside here.  I've been using Brian Burn's method of putting on a double bevel on my planer blades for the past 15 years maybe.  Essentially what you're doing is steepening the cutting angle by putting a slight bevel on the front side of the blade.  This allows you to plane 95% of any grain with zero to minimal tearout.  I don't pay any attention to the grain pattern as I feed the lumber into the planer.
Downside is you have to take shallower cuts and you need lots of horsepower in the planer as it requires more effort from the motor.

He didn't think this up but rather rediscovered it way before the current fad/rediscover of it today.  In his booklet he details both his method for plane blades and for planer blades.  The link below just mentions the plane blade method.
Ron Hock wrote about it here  http://hocktools.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/two-better-than-one/ (http://hocktools.wordpress.com/2010/08/25/two-better-than-one/)
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Jeff Farris on June 13, 2013, 01:22:18 AM
The wobble is in the mating between the inside washer and the grindstone. Loosen the nut, turn the inside washer a quarter turn, snug it back up and check again. After a couple of these, you'll find the "sweet spot".
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: MakerUnknown on June 13, 2013, 01:30:19 AM
Jeff,
Yes, I tried that and it helped a bit but both wheels wobble.  I really think it's either the sloppy new nylon washer or I twisted the machine in my effort to free the old shaft.  Like I said, it's not too bad and I'm not tripping on it.
Paul
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Mike Fairleigh on June 13, 2013, 01:53:36 AM
Jeff, are you saying that the runout is in the washer, or the wheel - or in both, and you're trying to find the spot where they cancel each other out?
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: MakerUnknown on June 13, 2013, 02:27:30 AM
It's always such a revelation putting sharp planer blades back on and realizing what you've been missing...not japanese plane polished smooth but damn close.
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Jeff Farris on June 13, 2013, 03:18:05 AM
Quote from: KSMike on June 13, 2013, 01:53:36 AM
Jeff, are you saying that the runout is in the washer, or the wheel - or in both, and you're trying to find the spot where they cancel each other out?

The error is mostly in the stone, which is not machined (and can't be, reliably). The washers are machined, which would theoretically make my method ineffective. However, it works. I learned it from the guy that used to demonstrate Forrest saw blades at the shows. He would search for the sweet spot between blade and arbor for half an hour or so every week when he set his saw up.
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Ken S on June 14, 2013, 12:14:07 PM
Excellent post, Jeff.  It reminds me of a story about a coworker.  He is a skilled woodworker and attended several woodworking shows.  The Forrest rep kept telling him, "I'm gonna get you."  He did.  My friend ended up buying a Forrest blade and loves it.  Quality and skill speak for themselves.

Packing and unpacking, which you have said involved removing the wheel with the old shaft; you must have spent many hours in pursuit of the sweet spot.

Those hours are one of the highlights of this forum.

Thanks,

Ken
Title: Re: Shaft removal problems
Post by: Jeff Farris on June 14, 2013, 01:10:31 PM
Quote from: Ken S on June 14, 2013, 12:14:07 PM
Excellent post, Jeff.  It reminds me of a story about a coworker.  He is a skilled woodworker and attended several woodworking shows.  The Forrest rep kept telling him, "I'm gonna get you."  He did.  My friend ended up buying a Forrest blade and loves it.  Quality and skill speak for themselves.

Packing and unpacking, which you have said involved removing the wheel with the old shaft; you must have spent many hours in pursuit of the sweet spot.

Those hours are one of the highlights of this forum.

Thanks,

Ken

Actually, Ken, I tried to make sure I wasn't on the sweet spot! Lateral wobble has virtually no effect on performance, which I pointed out in my demonstration. However, when someone (potential or current owner either one) would say, "Yeah, but that's an XX hundred dollar grinder..." I would show them how to eliminate the lateral wobble in about 30 fast seconds.