Just took it out of the box and plugged into 115V outlet. Runs if I hold start button down. Is the start button mechanically or electrically latched?
Should be mechanical unless they changed it. Are you sure you're depressing the switch all the way?
Note that it's a rocker switch, not a push on/push off. If you're pushing in the middle, you might be rocking it to momentary contact.
Hang on.......I thought the new T7's come with an NVR?
If that's the case then you've got an electrical contact problem either in the wall, the appliance plug or the switch.
Try repeating the test with a different mains wall socket. If it still occurs, the problem is somewhere from the machines plug backwards to the switch. My money is on the wiring in the plug rather than the switch
It is not the outlet and I have been pushing the switch as far as it will travel. Looks like I will have to take the thing apart. Sounds like it is a mechanically latched switch so something must be wrong with the linkage.
Quote from: Rob on May 04, 2013, 11:27:10 AM
Hang on.......I thought the new T7's come with an NVR?
What's a NVR?
Quote from: Jgweaver on May 04, 2013, 03:35:37 PM
Looks like I will have to take the thing apart.
Call the vendor first. Taking it apart might void your warranty.
Perhaps they can send you just the switch assembly.
It appears they changed from a rocker switch to an electronic switch starting with serial number 514 458.
My serial number is 332 009, so I have the older rocker switch.
Have it looked at by your dealer before you start taking things apart.
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on May 04, 2013, 05:39:58 PM
It appears they changed from a rocker switch to an electronic switch starting with serial number 514 458.
My serial number is 332 009, so I have the older rocker switch.
Like I said....they now have NVR's (no volt release switch). This is a common feature on "dangerous" machine tools such that they cant be accidentally left on n the event of being unplugged with a mechanical switch left in the on position. The switch auto switches to off in the event it gets no electrical current. Thats why I think his problem is electrical not mechanical. Have you checked the wiring in the plug?
If that tests OK (and by the way blown fuses in the plug are the most common electrical fault), then its off to the dealer or as the boys say, you'll void the warranty......thats 7 years bad luck!!
To late. Took the switch out and tore it apart. The switch has a 115V coil that latches the run contacts in then when the stop button is pushed it drops out the coil. The steel arm that the coil pulls in has a slight curve and was in upside down so it did not have enough lift to close the run contacts. Apparently they do not run these before they are shipped.
That must be a very recent change. My machine isn't very old and still has the rocker.
Quote from: Rob on May 04, 2013, 08:57:16 PM
Like I said....they now have NVR's (no volt release switch). This is a common feature on "dangerous" machine tools such that they cant be accidentally left on n the event of being unplugged with a mechanical switch left in the on position. The switch auto switches to off in the event it gets no electrical current. Thats why I think his problem is electrical not mechanical. Have you checked the wiring in the plug?
If that tests OK (and by the way blown fuses in the plug are the most common electrical fault), then its off to the dealer or as the boys say, you'll void the warranty......thats 7 years bad luck!!
What you say about the switch makes sense, but I don't understand the part about the fuse in the plug. Is this fuse in the male part of the plug, or is this something you have in the female part of the plug on your side of the pond?
Quote from: Jgweaver on May 04, 2013, 09:31:27 PM
Apparently they do not run these before they are shipped.
Apparently not, but you kinda left us hangin' there. Were you able to fix it?
Quote from: KSMike on May 04, 2013, 09:35:44 PM
That must be a very recent change. My machine isn't very old and still has the rocker.
Is your serial number smaller than 514 458?
Yes, it is running well now and I have sharpened several drill bits this afternoon. There are no fuses in the unit.
Yes it is running well. Sharpened several drill bits this afternoon.
Glad it worked out for you. You probably should report the problem with the switch to your dealer. If you have problems with it in the future you may have to replace it.
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on May 05, 2013, 12:02:46 AM
Quote from: Rob on May 04, 2013, 08:57:16 PM
Like I said....they now have NVR's (no volt release switch). This is a common feature on "dangerous" machine tools such that they cant be accidentally left on n the event of being unplugged with a mechanical switch left in the on position. The switch auto switches to off in the event it gets no electrical current. Thats why I think his problem is electrical not mechanical. Have you checked the wiring in the plug?
If that tests OK (and by the way blown fuses in the plug are the most common electrical fault), then its off to the dealer or as the boys say, you'll void the warranty......thats 7 years bad luck!!
What you say about the switch makes sense, but I don't understand the part about the fuse in the plug. Is this fuse in the male part of the plug, or is this something you have in the female part of the plug on your side of the pond?
Hi Herman
In the UK (And I assumed this was also true in the US but might be wrong on that)...all appliances have a plug (obviously) ie the male part.....that plug has within it, not just the wire terminals but also a seperate and replaceable fuse...its a small capsule with the fuse wire completely enclosed....disposable.
The plug then fits into the wall socket as normal. The wall socket has no fuse since the main is fused at the consumer unit. The fuse in the plug is rated to the power of the appliance so something like a Tormek would have a 13 amp fuse. A lamp might have a 5 amp fuse and so on.
Frequently, in the UK, those fuses are the first to blow in the event of a short. Its like the first weak link in the electrical chain. Is that not the case for US based appliances then?
Well done to the OP by the way....clearly the switch was assembled badly....the quality control issue is a bit of a worry because our experience of Tormek QA is that its pretty good.
Rob,
That sounds like a brilliant system, but our (USA) plugs are not so equipped.
Quote from: Rob on May 05, 2013, 01:02:06 PM
In the UK (And I assumed this was also true in the US but might be wrong on that)...all appliances have a plug (obviously) ie the male part.....that plug has within it, not just the wire terminals but also a seperate and replaceable fuse...its a small capsule with the fuse wire completely enclosed....disposable.
I hadn't noticed that. I was aware there's a switch in the receptacle (female part) so that's why I inquired.
In the US we don't have the switches on the receptacles or the fuses in the plugs. If a receptacle is close to a sink, bathtub, or shower it'll be a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) receptacle. These will open the circuit if the current returning is less than current supplied. There's a reset button you push to close the circuit once the fault has been corrected.
This is a most interesting post. It also illustrates one of my (few) pet peeves about this forum. Once in a while, someone directly associated with the factory in Sweden should reply.
"Apparently they do not run these before they are shipped." I hope (and believe) this was an isolated incident. What I have not read on this forum is a reply form Tormek AB clearly stating the company's testing procedures for all new units. It would appear that this unit slipped through the cracks in testing. It would be reassuring to know (officially) that the cracks are few and narrow. I don't expect total perfection from any company. It would be nice to know this is a rarity.
It would be nice for the company to provide a forum post detailing the different switch and plug arrangement for different countries.
For those of us who do not have total GFCI protected receptacles throughout our shops, a simple GFCI short extension cord will do a good job at minimal cost.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on May 05, 2013, 05:20:59 PM
For those of us who do not have total GFCI protected receptacles throughout our shops, a simple GFCI short extension cord will do a good job at minimal cost.
Yes, but it won't duplicate the safety feature built in to the new switch. The new switch prevents the machine from starting when you plug it in.
well fancy that....I had no idea you guys didnt have fused (male) plugs as standard. Our wall receptacles sometimes have switches and sometimes dont but they are never fused...its only the appliance plug.
You learn something new every day :-)
On Kens point, Tormek QA will be good Ken, just anecdotal feedback from this forum bears testament to that
Rob, life is sometimes a bit more primitive in the old colonies...........
Ken
Rob, the only ones I've seen over there had switches. Unless I'm recalling incorrectly. The thing I remember is that the down position was on. Messed me up worse than having to drive on the wrong side of the road. ;D
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on May 06, 2013, 05:34:04 AM
Rob, the only ones I've seen over there had switches. Unless I'm recalling incorrectly. The thing I remember is that the down position was on. Messed me up worse than having to drive on the wrong side of the road. ;D
Thats funny Herman.....I have the exact same feeling in reverse...when I started travelling to the US on business many years ago....I wondered why the light switches were up not down...I always thought the builder had just wired them upside down at first....then the penny dropped :-)
The wall socket switch thing is just an economic choice. The cheaper sockets arent switched, bit more money and they are. Today the vast majority of new build has switched sockets but I just checked one of our biggest online construction supplies catalogue and the non switched variety are still permissable with our building regs. We built our house in 2007 and its got all switched....nice...if you cant reach that lamp last thing at night
Quote from: Rob on May 05, 2013, 01:02:06 PM
The plug then fits into the wall socket as normal. The wall socket has no fuse since the main is fused at the consumer unit. The fuse in the plug is rated to the power of the appliance so something like a Tormek would have a 13 amp fuse. A lamp might have a 5 amp fuse and so on.
Frequently, in the UK, those fuses are the first to blow in the event of a short. Its like the first weak link in the electrical chain. Is that not the case for US based appliances then?
Question Rob,
You have no breaker (fuse) between the grid (source) power and the wall socket? What protects your house if the a short circuit occurs in the wiring within the walls before the socket (outlet)?
Our outlets are not protected at the outlet but at the breaker (fuse) box unless it is a GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interruptor) outlet. The breaker box can also be called the service panel. Are you calling the
consumer unit the service panel (breaker box) or are you referring to the load (i.e. Tormek, lamp, fan, etc.) I'm not saying your all's way is wrong, but am genuinely interested in knowing the differences. :)
A GFCI can also be accomplished in a GFCI breaker in the breaker box.
Individual fusing of loads at the load itself is done at times, but is rare. Power strips that are protected are common, particularly for computer type stuff. It wouldn't be a bad idea, however, to have individual load fusing.
I guess that is the way the duck floats on this side of the pond.
Hi Elden
Yup.....consumer unit is Limey speak for fuse box. Each house has one as you say, in between you and the grid. These days they're all of a trip switch design. In the old days it was big Bakelite fuse carriers with individual strands of wire
Each ring circuit leads back to a breaker that protects that circuit......but we also have these little mini fuses inside the appliance plugs. They're cheap to buy and disposable. Big power guzzlers (anything to do with heat like your swanky electric oven) has its own even thicker cable (30 amp) with another individual breaker.....all in the consumer unit
Your GCFI things sound like what we call an RCD
The other difference is that in the US we have two 115 volt hot wires, each 180o out of phase with the other. We have to put them together on occasion for appliances that require 230 volts.
In the UK my guess is that everything residential is single phase 230 volt.
The tea kettles sure work a lot faster over there. When you double the voltage like that you get four times the power. I'd sure like to have one of those over here hooked up to a 230 volt supply. I'm pretty sure it'd be a code violation.
Spot on Herman
I have a buddy who used to be a carpenter here before he got into software. He emigrated to California and in the last fifteen years has renovated six houses which he rents. He's always on about the differences in voltage.
He says the upside is 115 is safer, downside, less power. On building sites here, many power tools are 110 volts and the workers have a big heavy tranny they cart around all the time. My chopsaw (a dewalt) is just such a beast. I swear the tranny weighs more than the saw!
Rob, it the main difference the voltage or the cycles per second (Hertz)? North America standardized on 60 Hertz many years ago. As I recall, this was due to George Westinghouse, the champion of alternating current (AC) who had the good fortune to hire Nicola Tesla. Even the Tormek manufactured for sale in Europe is designed to work on 50 Hertz.
I'm no engineer, however, I believe converting (transforming) voltage is no big deal. I think converting from 60 to 50 Hertz or vice versa would be what required the big equipment.
Many of our stationary power tools can be rewired to run on 230 volts. The reason for doing this is not more power. Power = Volts x Amps. When a motor is rewired from 115 to 230 Volts, current (Amps) is cut in half. The benefit of using lower amperage is less heat is generated, primarily in the wire. That allows the use of smaller gage (gauge) supply wire or cords.
Surely Dewalt manufactures tools designed for direct use with UK power, don't they?
Perhaps differences in electrical power are another reason for the popularity of very powerful battery powered tools.
Herman, since a tea kettle has no motor (it's just a heating element), rewiring it to 230 volts should be just a matter of changing the plug. If, like me, you happen to have an unused garbage disposal circuit running to your kitchen with a switch, changing the breaker and receptacle to 230 should be a snap. I don't know how much time you would gain, but it should work.
Ken
Thanks Ken
Truth is I don't know old son. I'm blinking useless at electrics, always have been. I can do the mechanical stuff round the house to connect things, chase out walls, install boxes, jb's etc but I've never understood how it all works
I think it was the lesson on Faradays finger rule in teenage physics when the rot started :o
With respect to the power tools question. All the big tool players like dewalt, makita etc that make tools aimed at construction offer a 240v and a 110v variant of their models
I wound up with a 110v chopsaw because it was a bargain on e bay and had my buddies tranny (the one that emigrated left most of his carpentry tools with me)
Rob, I bought a Black and Decker mallet at aWoolworth's in London on a long ago trip to England. It works fine in North America. Maybe we just need to be more careful with our tool selection.... :)
Ken
I chuckled at that Ken
Did you know "Wooly's" as it was affectionately known here went bust a couple years back? Victim of the banking crisis plus online shopping.....bummer
Bummer is right. I guess that makes my mallet a collector's item. It's a nice, simple tool. It worked pre Y2K and still works well.
Ken
Quote from: Rob on May 07, 2013, 09:58:46 AM
He says the upside is 115 is safer, downside, less power. On building sites here, many power tools are 110 volts and the workers have a big heavy tranny they cart around all the time. My chopsaw (a dewalt) is just such a beast. I swear the tranny weighs more than the saw!
Larger tools here, such as some air compressors and table saws, are set up to run on 220 volts. Some will run on either, but the wiring has to be modified. Many people have ruined equipment hooking it up incorrectly.
We also have three phase in some commercial buildings, which give 110 volts using only one hot leg, but 208 volts when using two. This can cause equipment designed to operate on 220 volts to either run less effectively or burn out.
The other thing is that induction motors such as the one in your chop saw will run at a lower speed because your electricity is 50 Hz rather than the 60 Hz we have over here.
By the time electricity was investigated seriously by engineers for practical use, scientists had already realized the advantages of uniform standards. Thus we have only one set of units used for measurements of electric quantities, such as ampere for current and volt for electric potential, whereas there are a multitude of units for older quantities such as weight and length. Pity they didn't continue that practice when they designed the electric grids.
I'm going from memory on this. I recall the US and Canada standardizing on 60 Hertz and 115/230 long ago, when 27 different standards existed in Great Britain.
I suspect the reason for so many power standards was national defense. In the event of invasion, the French army would not be able to use their Cuisinarts and would probably leave.
Ken
LOL....very funny Ken...freedom fries springs to mind ::)
The service tech e-mailed and thanked me for the info. He will be relaying the info. to the quality department. The machine is working great.
Make sure you save that email, you have a 7 year warranty and you may need that as documentation.
I still think they owe you a new switch anyway.