Hi Folks,
Well i have not had my Tormek T7 for very long. Only really bought it for straight edge stuff. But i have decided to buy a cheap lathe and give it a go.
I have also bought the woodturning kit, which was nearly as much as the lathe!
Now the set of tools that i have purchased is a set of Robert Sorby has chisels. So i went online today to order the blackstone(my pet hate they take your order and tell you it wont be in for 6 weeks). It seems Tormek dont have any until that date. So tried many others and the story is the same.
So i will have to sharpen with the standard stone.
Can i still sharpen on the standard stone? Will it damage my stone? And any tips that anyone could give me starting out in turning would be appreciated.
Thanks
John
John
The fun is just starting. First if you have Tormek's set of turning jigs,
watch Jeff in the video. He pretty much covers everything you need
to know to get started sharpening your tools. The grey stone which
came with your T-7 is just what you want for most of your lathe tools.
I am sure your Sorby tools are HSS, so either the Grey stone or the
Black stone will work fine. The Black stone will not work as well on
steel which is not at least of HSS or better hardness. Just make sure
you move your tool evenly across the stone so as not to make any
grooves from grinding in one place for any period of time, and you
will only notice normal even wear on the stone. Again, make sure
to watch Jeff Farris in the included video, or go to YouTube for the
same video. He explains everything in simple to understand steps.
Study the section on grading your stone. You will not be happy unless
you change the courseness from initial shape grinding to final honing.
Good Luck and have fun!!!!
Hi john
Is your intention to turn spindles (between centres) or bowls?
What lathe have you bought and what is its swing?
What are the chisels in the Robert sorby set? (3/4" roughing gouge etc)
I echo the advice on Jeff's touch n turn DVD. It's very well done and Jeff's quite the turner himself.
Ill get into more individual experience sharing when I know what you want to turn and which chisels you have. This is very relevant for me as I trod this path myself just before Christmas.
Know one thing though, you've just entered the heartland of what Tormek is brilliant at. It really excels at sharpening turning tools. Welcome :-)
Out of all the "tips" I watched or read at the start, here are what I found most useful:
Do make the wooden spacer blocks to quickset the universal sppt, one for each chisel that uses the SVD-50 multi jig (you'll be using that a lot)
Don't bother doing that for bowl gouges as the turning tool setter has a really useful calibration feature for the same job when using the articulated gouge jig
Don't worry about your grey wheel, its fine, if the blackstone takes 6 weeks so be it, it won't slow you down.
I will leave out grinding the wings off to create fingernail grinds for the while until you talk about what you intend to turn. If you go down that route, we can cover that as that's about the biggest shaping (not sharpening) job you'll do to your turning tools. The Tormek is pre-eminently superb at this, truly exceptional given the complex curved geometries.
Last point, unrelated to sharpening. Go easy when you begin, do all the safety checks, run the lathe slow at first, wear safety specs or a full face job. When you're new, you'll get a few smacks cos you'll hold the chisel wrong as you learn. As long as your fingers aren't between the tool rest and the rotating stock, they're scary but not dangerous. NEVER wear loose clothing or jewellery.
I bang on about the safety cos it becomes a tired cliche in the manufacturers manuals. To bring it to life my personal experience is I've had three pieces fly off the lathe (just since Christmas). All were to do with cracks in the stock, as I removed material it exposed the weakness progressively till... Two missed me by miles, one clipped my ear. Another time I got a chip in the eye. (On the one time I had mislaid my safety specs). Hurt like hell for an evening but no damage
Dust from sanding is the other hazard. Talk about fine dust, below 5 microns ie the really lung eating stuff! When you power sand with a 400 grit pad, the dust is like smoke its so fine! Use extraction and a proper face mask professionally rated to remove particles below 5 microns (I use those 3M ones that have two exchangeable filters that cost around £30-40, I also have trends powered full face mask). DON'T use those disposable white paper jobs unless your goal is to be coughing up Bubinga globs 20 years from now! I use the trend for monster sanding jobs ( which incidentally good turning practice should negate) and the 3M job for smaller bursts. The trend isn't necessary its just I owned one already, the 3m or similar is. Extraction can be achieved with domestic quality vacuums cos you're only using them at sanding time, not for the shavings. One with a hepa filter bag is a good call.
Last tip....keep a chainsaw in your car boot every time you go out. I've become like a fanatical road kill collector, only its not road kill I'm collecting its down'd trees. In my local woodturning supplies shop, the minimum cost of any bowl blank is £7 and they go up to £50 for larger or more exotic species. Upside of trees down is, they might be spalted, good for turners, they might be quite dried out. Downside, they tend to have a lot of cracks, shakes from the pith out wards. But....they're free so great for practice. Also green wood is a million times more forgiving to turn than dry wood.
You're gunna love this John:-)
Hi Folks,
Thanks to Dick and Rob for great info.
Rob, its great to know i can post when i am stuck.
Well here is where i am at.
I have bought an axminster awvsl 1000. I was really annoyed yesterday as like so many companies now, they take your money and then tell you that your item has shipped minus a 1" 4 prong 2mt, that wont be in for six weeks. But when i told them i would send delivery back they found one!
So it was between this one and a record and what swung it was the adjustable speed and the work cymru boy does on you tube, he had this lathe until upgrading this year. Love his videos.
Got it built up today and when i ordered my set of Robert Sorby chisels from Peter Child the guy said is was a very good machine for the money. And it might be a bit premature but i think it is. But until my chisels come and my headstock on Friday, i am just reading up and watching dvds, i have just pulled Jeffs dvd out the Tormek box and i have a great book called Woodturning, a foundation course by Keith Rowley and a dvd from the same.
I must confess i watched Keiths dvd last night and it is excellent, however, there seems to be a lot to learn, holding angles, cutting points, chisel choice and thats without sharpening!
So it probably a good thing that i can't start now, as i tend to try and run before i can walk.
I will be staring off turning spindles. However, as the blackstone was out of stock, and the money was there, i ordered a patriot chuck today, so bowls as well when i get better.
I had a chuckle there Rob, my wife asked me what the hell i wanted a lathe for(as they do) and i replied, well i have a nice chainsaw and if i am driving along the road and i see a trunk i will put it in my boot. She said i would get into trouble if i cut a tree down. Think she missed the point! lol.
Anyway thanks for the wonderful advice, i am off to study.
John
Brilliant John
Can't wait to hear about your exploits. I warn you now, wood turning is seriously addictive :-)
Don't worry about all the complexities, a long journey begins with the first step. Spindle turning is the right approach. As well as one by one or two by two planed, see if you can find some thin birch branches that are really straight and try those too. Even if they're green. Doesn't matter that the barks still on either. They turn beautifully and the fact they're already circular is helpful as long as they're not too out of true.
Just out of curiosity, where are you? You're not the chap from Essex are you?
Cheers
R
Hi Rob,
Thanks again.
Not Essex, up in Scotland, plenty trees down up here. Husquavarna at the ready!
cheers
John
Big Thanks to Jeff.
What a great dvd sharpening and using woodturning tools.
John
Haha. I should have known, "Fraser" the clue was there :-)
I'm a stihl man myself.
Avoid pine generally, it doesn't turn that great. Hardwoods generally. I really like oak personally and any fruit woods, apple cherry etc. Now when friends, family, neighbours are gardening, I'm all over their off cuts. Ash turns really nicely.
Yew is a real belter. Only last week I noticed a huge oak had been downed by a builder erecting a garage. I chatted him up and twenty minutes later was loading a couple hundred weight of bowl blanks into my boot. Once you know you want it, you see it everywhere, its great.
The Keith Rowley book you mentioned is my absolute favorite introductory book. Sadly, Keith past a few years ago. I had the great pleasure of hosting him at a turning workshop several years ago. You limeys will be interested to know that he was on the police force in Nottingham for many years. That's right folks, I learned to turn from the Sheriff of Nottingham.
Drum roll...... Symbol
Very drole Jeff....you should be on the telly :-)
Surely that also means you're one of the "merry men" ...........and wear green tights:-)
Quote from: Rob on April 18, 2013, 01:25:30 AM
...........and wear green tights:-)
That's a photo that I promise you would close this forum forever. :o
Yeah, I'm trying to suppress that image from loading in my head as I type :-)
Hi Jeff,
yes, the dvd that goes with the book is very good but the book confirms everything.
Now my chisels should come tomorrow a 5 set Robert Sorby.
I have watched your dvd 5 times, yes 5 times!
I could do it in my sleep (not).
Now you Jeff are a true craftsman and an even better salesman. lol.
So i will be the first to come on here on friday or saturday and tell you if its as easy as you make it look.
My first thoughts are that i know how long it takes the Tormek to grind a badly damaged plane iron. And thats with the stone going the other way.
But as you explain, if i use setting 2 and dont expect to remove too much steel straight away, then maybe i will be ok. Cant wait.
Thanks again to Rob for the wonderful advice.
John
You'll be pleasantly surprised I'm certain. The Robert sorbys will be factory ground which means that gouges will likely correspond very closely to protrusion 65 and jig setting 2
The very first time you grind the gouges, there may be a bit of shaping, rather than just sharpening. Thus it may take 10 to 15 minutes. Once shaped ie each subsequent sharpen will take under a minute AS LONG AS you exactly repeat the jig setting and protrusion and universal sppt config.
My guess is that a set of 5 will give a 3/4" roughing gouge and 1/2 or 3/8" spindle gouge, parting tool, skew chisel and maybe a scraper or possibly a bowl gouge. The two spindle gouges will by far receive the most use. Jig 2, p65 will handle them both.
If you want to get into bowls ( which trust me you will), we can get into that later. Because as Jeff's video clearly states, you need to grind the wings back for that
Have you thought about finishes out of curiosity? You'll need a few more bits n bobs there....your wife's gunna love you :-)
You do of course realise this is the male equivalent of a clothes shop for our better halves :-)
Seriously though, sand paper grits from 120 through about 400, friction polish or some decent waxes, oils also a must. Once you go bowl, you need to explore power sanding with a flexi Velcro pad and disposable sanding discs. Awesome. Talk about cut the time taken and improve the finish
If you get anything done, post Picts next week. Would be great to see progress
Cheers
Very interesting. Car boots, car bonnets, car trunks, car hoods. Do you all ever get a bee in your bonnet? My middle son roomed with a fellow from the Caribbean island of Anguilla for a year at college. His room mate asked my son if he would carry him to town. Made my son ponder that one for a bit! Going through his American mind was, no you would get heavy very quickly! After thinking about it, he said yes, I can give you a ride to town.
I am enjoying it! Carry on. :)
By the way, the "very interesting" was referring to the wood turning topic as well!
Hi Rob,
More great info thanks so much,
You are spot on with what comes in the kit. I take it then, until i bring the wings in, i cannot try bowls.
Everything is in place to have a go at sharpening tomorrow.
Probably not get a chance until tomorrow night.
Looking forward.
Will let you know how i get on.
Thanks
John
No you can try bowls....I just wouldnt until you've practised on between centres spindles first. Bowl turning is less safe than anything between centres and therefore it warrants good tool control. You wont have a feel for the chisels when you start and if you dive straight into an out of true, one centre held bowl....you'll probably get some wacks as you present the chisel to the work badly. Those wacks rarely actually hurt...but they dont half scare and that shakes your confidence, the very last thing you need while learning.
Better to start with the 3/4" roughing gouge on a nice foot long or so bit of 1x1 or 2x2 and turn it into a cylinder and then practising beads and coves.
When you have a feel for how the chisel might behave if you turn it or swing into the work or do this and that..you could more safely start to rough out a bowl.
To finish that point. You can certainly remove wood turning a bowl with a factory grind bowl gouge. That grind will likely be somewhere close to jig 2 P=65 ie not what's called a fingernail grind. If you've watched Jeff's vid you know what I mean about a fingernail grind.
There is a lot of personal variation in how much of a fingernail any given turner might prefer. Its as well to try progressively more as you go. So start at factory and then grind more of the sides (wings) off in stages. Try that new stage and then go again if you dont like it.
There are three issues with respect to producing fingernail grinds:
1) Grinding the wings takes a fair bit of time ie first shaping....sharpening from then on is a doddle. A good half an hour if not a little more.
2) The further back up the chisel you grind the greater cutting edge you create which allows you to waste off more stock when making shaping cuts
3) Because you alter the edge angle when doing a fingernail grind, you make it easier to access the steep sides in a deep bowl. To get the cutting edge of a factory ground chisel angled correctly (ie with bevel rubbing) you end up hitting the side further up the tool.
So fingernail grinds are the only way to go for deep bowls and also for going fast. But you need to invest some shaping time on the T7 to get them there.
As per my post before this, its a step too far for the first outing on a lathe in my opinion which is why I say break yourself in with between centre practice first. Do a bowl after a week or two when you feel more comfortable with the gouges behaviour and you have some muscle memory developed.
Disaster, disaster and more disaster!
I always thought the most dangerous machine in the workshop was a spindle moulder.
Not any more. Its a Lathe!
Ok, first off, its a Tormek website so i will give my opinion on the jigs. Fantastic, easy to use and with a little bit more practice its easy to use. 10/10. Although i said with some more practice. I can slice my chisels and plane blades all day long on paper. But im not quite there yet with the turning chisels. Maybe my eagerness to get them from the Tormek to the lathe was the problem.
And my apologies, i know its not a turning website, but there are a lot of knowledgable folks on here and i need help!
I had read that branches that are still wet are easier to turn. So i picked up a couple of 4inch diameter branches of Ash. They didnt need much work as they were pretty straight. Cut them to 2 foot long. Put them on the lathe and started to rough it with the roughing gouge. The machine was said slow to begin with. Then i had a dig in that was so hard it jammed my chisel between the wood and the rest. I kept trying, but although i have read two books and watched 3 videos, i am afraid i may need some practical help.
I tried the spindle gouge, just trying to smooth the stock, but i was not managing to smooth it. Were my tools not sharp enough? Was my angle not correct?
Then i tried to do some coves and i just kept getting dig in after dig in.
I suppose to begin with i was probably trying to take to big a cut. But then i tried just taking a tiny shaving. Need to look up my nearest turning club.
As usual any pointers appreciated.
Thanks
John
Mm difficult to diagnose without watching you. I did say that if you got wacked it would scare you but shouldn't be dangerous as long as your fingers aren't on the stock side of the tool rest
So here's my advice:
- practical hands on training/guidance will speed up time and get you there faster than any other method. Personally I didn't take any and I experienced plenty of digs on the journey!
- if you can't get that fast enough try the following
- use shorter stock, about 8" and try 1x1 planed all round ie square. The branches are ok but they won't be true and that eccentric "cam" will aid in you getting digs
- just use the 3/4" roughing gouge to start, it's the easiest chisel to control
- if you have two live centres you can mount one in both head and tail stock. Then you'll never get s dig because the stock will stop dead the moment you put any pressure on it
- avoid the skew at all costs for the time bring
- check the height of the tool rest. Start with it just slightly above the central axis of the lathe
- place the tool rest just about 1/4" from the stock and set a relatively slow speed
- carefully place the gouge on the rest angled up above the stock and slowly arc downwards just touching the outside 1mm of rotating stock. The trick is to get the bevel rubbing ever so gently
- never lift the gouge off the rest once in contact with the stock and keep the handle tucked into your
You'll get there, just don't let the dings rattle you
Once again Rob,
Thanks so much for your great advice.
I will not be giving up just yet!
I am going to work on the sharpness of the tools.
Spend some time with the Tormek.
Then I will take it slower. And follow your advice on thinner stock.
I am having trouble understanding keeping the bevel behind the cut.
Surely if the bevel isn't behind the cut then it won't cut.
Thanks again Rob
John
I forgot to mention, before you power up the lathe do the tool rest height adjustment and then rotate the stock by hand with gouge held in right hand. Bring the tool in contact with the wood as if it was spinning at normal speed. This dry run without the lathe running helps you to check if it will cut or not. If the gouge is sharp, it will cut....maybe not as clean as a spinning lathe but you should experience the feel of how it will perform when the lathe is turned on
It helps to set your expectation of the correct protrusion over the tool rest and the correct angle against the stock to get the bevel rubbing.
If you like we could set up a Skype video call and I could run through this live from my workshop to go over the finer points
When I went through this I didn't get any training and with hindsight it cost me quite a few digs. I repeat, they scare the hell out of you and knock confidence but as long as you observe the fingers not past the tool rest rule, they won't hurt. We're I to have the time again, I probably would hire a turner or a day. It's such a pity you live so far, we could crack the fundamentals in a day I'm certain of it.
Ill pm you my Skype id and mail address
Best of luck on Sunday John :-)