My when I bought my T7 a few years ago I soon gave up on using the leather wheel because it wasn't removing the burr or polishing at all vs a strop I made from a piece of leather glued to a piece of wood.
From reading some posts it looks like I've been over-oiling my wheel by a lot. I didn't realize that was a first-time-only thing. I also use 3-in-1 oil.
I tried wiping off the old residue with rags, paper towels, buffing a piece of wood against it, but I haven't been able to get all the residue off.
Can I do something more drastic like drag a card-scrapper or a block of wood with sand-paper attached to really clean off the mess are start over?
Is a new wheel going to be the only fix?
Also, the hand-strop I made uses the same oil and same honing-compound, yet works. Why is that? Is the speed of the honing wheel magnifying my error?
You could try removing the wheel and burying it in sawdust? I dunno, but that oil has penetrated below the surface and I would think the only way to get it out is by wicking it out.
Regardless, you should be able to embed your honing wheel with the honing compund made by Tormek for that purpose. That should make it usable.
I am not sure how much oil is "by a lot" but I don't see that being a problem. I use a the side edge of a chisel to clean the honing wheel from time to time when it is hyper saturated with compound and steel. If you try that you'll learn quickly how much force to apply, in my case I am not gentle, the edge of the chisel scarps all the mess out whether is oil or anything else.
I believe there are two reasons why using the honing wheel does not look like removing the burr. Either because of fear to not round the edge you actually don't get to the burr to remove it, or the wheel is not properly impregnated with honing compound. There is another possibility, the burr is too big like left by a 220 grinding but I don't believe that applies here as you are able to remove it with a hand hone.
For the first case if you hone around 2-3 o'clock and you have a lamp sitting somewhere close to your shoulder you will be able to see a small shadow of the edge on the honing wheel as you hone which means you don't touch the burr. The goal is to bring the edge close to the wheel until it disappears and not go further than that. You will also learn to feel based on how the tool drags on the honing wheel. If you do not have enough honing paste on the wheel follow the procedure in the manual about how much honing compound should be applied on the wheel when is broken in. From that point on you should just add a little bit as you need. The oil is supposed to get below the surface of the leather, it will help the honing compound to penetrate and will keep the wheel from drying,
Ionut
This is an interesting post. I hope more members will join in.
You may have accidentally stumbled upon an amazing discovery: an oil finish which does not need to be rejuvenated!
When you state that you are unable to remove all of the residue, are you actually removing some of the residue, or is none of it being removed? If none is being removed, some sort of solvent might be needed. However, if you are indeed removing some of the residue, keep going.
I like both Herman and Ionut's ideas. I might substitute something like an old t shirt or towel for the wicking media. I may be wrong on this; oily saw dust may not be so difficult to clean off the leather wheel.
On a lighter note, I noticed something else in this post. Ionut, with 50 posts, you have now achieved the status of "Jr. Member". (congratulations!)....Herman, with 48 posts, you are not far behind. Onward! I have wondered if there are different status positions between "Newbie" and "Hero Member". Does one become a "Senior Member" at 100 posts?
Sorry, I couldn't resist the curious imp in me. Anyway, this is a good question and good answers. I hope to read more of these.
Ken
Ionut makes a good point. Maybe Jeff can comment on what to do when the honing wheel is impregnated with old compound, dirt, and steel residue. (There, Ken S, now I need only one more!)
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on December 23, 2010, 03:01:01 PM
Ionut makes a good point. Maybe Jeff can comment on what to do when the honing wheel is impregnated with old compound, dirt, and steel residue. (There, Ken S, now I need only one more!)
As far as I'm concerned, you should do.....nothing. I put compound on the wheel every two or three tools, period. I don't scrape, I don't clean, I don't obsess. If it has too much on it, it will come off (black crud sloughing off the wheel).
As for too much oil, I've seen this many times. Normally scraping with sharp tool (the card scraper was a good idea) will get the job done. However, I've seen them so saturated that the compound would not cut. Then a new honing wheel is the only answer.
Thanks guys. I will try the scraper. I just wanted to make sure it wasn't too drastic. I have a bad feeling my wheel is saturated completely. I'll report back when I get this resolved.
In my case I had to do a heavy cleaning once and a couple of times of lighter cleaning when the goal was just to remove the old deposits, on my wheel at home in about 3 years since I own and use the machine. On a machine used to a demo I had to do it twice during 3 days of demo as the wheel was in bad condition of not being consistently used because for the sake of demonstration I ended with an overloaded honing wheel. For the demo machine I went with the scrapping as far as bringing the leather wheel to a brown color instead of black but that cleaned it very well. After reloading it lightly with oil and the initial quantity of honing compound I brought the wheel working efficiently. I never seen a wheel that overloaded with oil that will not cut but it is possible. Herman's idea is good the sawdust should absorb the excess oil, you can also try rolling the wheel on some shop towels and press over when you do it.
I found two problems with a wheel full of gunk, first the new honing compound applied doesn't stay well on it and comes off together with the mess on the wheel during honing and it is not as effective at least that's how it looks to me, and second, all the mess on the wheel catches on the tool while honing and is not allowing a good view of the edge position.
:) I didn't even notice the change of my title but I don't believe that is important, anyways Ken I have sent you a private message regarding the old jig.
Ionut
I think I overdid it with the mineral oil when my wheel was new, and for the first few years I owned it. I'm going to try the scraping, but perhaps I need a new wheel. I've noticed lately that honing is not as effective at removing burrs. Possibly at polishing, too.
Herman,
How often do you put compound on? By far, the most common problem with a honing wheel that doesn't remove the burr is simply not enough compound. One very, very thin stripe all the way around every 2 or 3 tools....a little more if the machine has not been used for several days.
OK I tried scraping it off with a card-scraper, but it wasn't making good progress and when I tried to lower it to an angle that would shave, the hook caught the seam on the leather and peeled back a small triangle section. I super-glued it back down and proceeded to plan-B. I needed to find a more sturdy way to hold the blade.
I took the blade of an old plane and rolled the edge to form a hook (as if I was prepping this to be used as a scraper-plane blade). I then jig'd it in the square-edge jig (upside down) and set it on the horizontal tool-support, very close to the wheel so that it would be at a good shaving-angle to the wheel. This worked great! It looked like I was turning wood on a lathe. I shaved it down to brown-colored leather and then ran the back of a chisel on the wheel to see what was left. There was still a little bit of oil coming from it (a smudge vs a puddle before).
I put some compound on it and it seems to be polishing OK. I will try removing a burr later when I have a tool that needs to be sharpened.
If this doesn't completely fix the problem, I'll consider a replacement.
Has anyone ever replaced only the leather on the wheel? It looks like it would be pretty easy to glue a piece from an old belt.
Quote from: mGuitars on December 23, 2010, 10:22:39 PM
Has anyone ever replaced only the leather on the wheel? It looks like it would be pretty easy to glue a piece from an old belt.
It needs to be very, very tight. It's nearly impossible to do it without specialized equipment.
Quote from: mGuitars on December 23, 2010, 10:22:39 PM
I took the blade of an old plane and rolled the edge to form a hook (as if I was prepping this to be used as a scraper-plane blade).
Could you elaborate, please? When I'm preparing a scraper I just try to make the edge square. Should I be doing something different?
I think you were even more aggressive than me if you had a hook on your blade. I just use the side edge of a bad chisel that is rigid and sharp enough to scrape the deposits but to not cut in the leather and shave the leather I also hold it askew in relation to the shaft, that gives me more control and I adjust the attack angle depending on the action I need. If the method you used is working that is great. I do not believe you will have to get a new wheel, if it is polishing it will also remove the burr coming from a grind.
Ionut
Putting a hook on the scraper sounds very aggressive to me. Using the side of a chisel sounds more controllable and less prone to chatter. I believe the Lie-Nielsen Cabinetmaker Scraper Plane blade is often used without a hook. It is slower, but very controllable.
I am concerned about the chunk of leather you super glued back. It might not be a problem with the slow speed of the Tormek. I would be inclined to replace the wheel. Keep the old wheel in case you have any brainstorms for new uses.
Congratulations are in order to yet another "two star". Kudos, Herman. Keep up the good work, guys.
"one star"
Herman: I was referring to a "Scraper-Plane Blade" vs your typical card-scraper. You're supposed to prep a scraper-plane blade with honed 45-degree bevel instead of a 90-degree edge.
Then you progressively roll the tip of the bevel further that direction to a hook like you would on a card scraper.
Alternatively, you could also set up the blade for 90-degrees for wild-grained woods. Then you'd have the higher cutting angle with less material removal; like a bench plane.
I have my scraper-plane blade set up with 90 on one edge and 45 on the opposite so I have both to choose. I then can install the blade whichever way is needed.
ionut: My method was aggressive, but there was so much oil saturated in there. I first tried the side-edge of a tool, but it just squished the leather and would only draw some of the oil out. I had to slice off the saturated leather to get the clean area. Doing it freehand was making me nervous about either tearing the leather (which happened anyway) or the scraper getting ripped from my hands and cutting me up real bad. With the jigs on-hand and that extra plane-blade, that was what I came up with to get to where I needed.
mGuitars,
I knew an old refinisher. He was a real expert in his craft. He told me that when he was apprenticing, his mentor gave him a piece of bird's eye maple and tole him to scrape it "until the eyes popped out". He scraped and scraped, and finally told his mentor it could not be done. The mentor was undaunted, and told him to keep scraping. With much cursing, he continued. To his great surprise, the eyes finally popped.
Scraping is a valuable, underutilized skill.
Ken
FWIW I over-oiled my wheel too before first use but just kept wiping with rags and paper towel. Took lots of wipes with days between for oil to rise to the surface.
Good reply, Ern.
Here's an update:
I got back from vacation and have had a chance to work with my T7. I found I am now able to get a polished and honed edge without the hand-strop. After I confirmed I could get to that point, I then tried a couple of swipes on my hand-strop and still get a nicer edge.
I'm sure after I get some more practice with the wheel that I'll be able to get to the same point, so it looks like it's all working.
I also reread my earlier post and it looks like I sound a little defensive towards ionut. I'm sorry if it came off that way. I only meant: what I did seemed like a good idea at the time.
If the honing wheel removes the burr and polishes the edge the wheel is back in good shape, as you will continue to use it will become more effective, try to not let it dry and become rock hard.
If you use a finer compound on the hand strop you may get a better edge, if you don't it is just a matter of your honing procedure that will become eventually better or the condition of the wheel.
Regarding your defensiveness I don't remember to have attacked you :), if you procedure does the job that's the important thing, I was just a little worried I didn't describe my suggestion properly and confused you.
Ionut