I sharpen a lot of chinese cleavers, but the larger cleavers are too big for the Universal Support as it will not go up high enough to allow the correct angle to be set.
Any ideas other than holding it by hand, which I am doing.
I now have the Extended Universal Support Bars in stock and for sale.
You can purchase them via my website
http://www.sharpknives.co.uk/onlineshop/prod_4360851-Extended-Universal-Support-Bar.html
You could get a machinst to make a universal support that suites your needs.
Take a look at the SVA-170 Axe Sharpening jig.
http://tormek.com/international/en/grinding-jigs/sva-170-axe-jig/
I've never used it but have thought about getting one. Do you have the scissor-sharpening jig? I've used the portion of that jig that attaches to the universal support to sharpen stuff like that.
I agree with the original poster -- the universal support could use another 1" in height to make it more usable and stable when sharpening wide blades.
It should be easy enough to make one out of 12 mm rod. The only tricky part would be the weld.
I have the same problem. According to the BGM-100 manual, the wooden support should be 2 inches tall. It appears to me that it should probably be closer to 3 to 4". Is this a misprint in the manual? The slow speed grinder I am using has an 8" wheel and with the wooden mount at 2" and the base for the Universal support screwed on, the universal support is only about 1/3 of the way up to the wheel center.
Any comments from anyone else who has successfully installed the BGM-100 would be appreciated.
Bob
You've misread the instructions. The block should be whatever height is necessary for the top of the block to be two inches below the centerline of the grinder...two inches down, not two inches up.
Herman may have an answer in the interim using the scissor jig, but I am very surprised that Tormek have not got a Universal Support extension or a larger/taller version as there are a lot of meat cleavers out there!
What about an extension to the bit that the support sits into, so that it is higher up, something like a collet extension on a router?
By the way I am not on about the BGM-100 Bench Grinder Mounting Set. This is on the standard T7 setup.
I have not tried this, but thinking that a couple of rods with a coupling of some kind (nut, sleeve, hole drilled in stock etc. etc. that would allow the existing universal support to easily slip into) just add them to the existing universal rods as a slip in fit and should give you a bit of hight addition. This would also allow a perfect fit for each rod in the hold downs and screw clamp systems. I am new to the tormek so not sure if this will cause additional problems with stability etc. (Jeff would certainly know of any drawbacks to this plan...)
Just a thought.....
I need something a bit simpler really.
I am going to see if I can remove the support base and put some washers under it.
I would agree with sbachner's suggestion. A taller support bar would be a simple task for a local machine shop. I recently had a local machine shop modify my Omnijig (dovetail router machine). The work was done far more precisely than I could have done it, and the price was fair.
If you want to lower your end cost, consider having the shop make up several units, and sell the rest on ebay as after market products.
I would agree with the above, apart from were I live (Bath in the UK) these type of shops that can make up steel work are far and few between. In fact I do not know of anywhere that I could get this done.
If there is anyone out there in the USA that could put me in touch with a company, it would be appreciated.
Robin,
Are you really that anxious to tip your machine over? ;D
Any extension of the Universal Support beyond its current maximum height adjustment will result in a loss of stability.
I am only talking about an extra 1" so wouldn't be an issue.
You could try:
http://www.bathbusinessweb.co.uk/Metal_Fabrication_Bath/_C_and_S_Energee
other local fabricators include:
http://www.bathbusinessweb.co.uk/Metal_Fabrication_Bath/
http://www.touchbath.com/business/search/typeId/1779/type/Steel+Fabrication
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=A7N&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=bath+metal+fabrication&fb=1&gl=uk&hq=metal+fabrication&hnear=Bath,+Avon&view=text&ei=qDtXTI2RLNSRjAfa_fXCBA&sa=X&oi=local_group&ct=more-results&resnum=4&ved=0CDgQtQMwAw
The lack of stability could be improved by clamping the tormek down i presume
I reckon you would have to add three or four inches until stability becomes an issue, but I don't need anywhere near that.
And yes, a small clip on each side would stop any stability issues, if there were any.
Thanks for the addresses above.
Okay... I love the T7 because of the quality of build.
I have checked the support at it's lowest level with the scissor jig, and there is still a good 6" of clearance underneath for a longer support.
What I propose is, that I will approach a metal frabrication company, and ask how much it would cost to produce an EXACT repilica in stainless steel but 3" taller. Exact same tolerances as original, as I am a bit of a prefectionist!
if anyone out there wants one, please email me at robin@sharpknives.co.uk and I will get a price. Obviously the more of us that club together, the cheaper the price will be. I will then put them for sale on my web site ( www.sharpknives.co.uk )for you to order and pay for via PayPal, and then I will ship one out to you wherever you are in the world.
Please put the email Subject as 'Universal tool support' and tell me how many you want.
I will then save all emails coming in, until there is enough of us to get this for a decent price and then let you all know.
Why stainless? Is the original stainless? Mine is not stainless, but mine is also very old. It didn't even have the threaded shaft that's now standard.
The T7 is stainless, so I propose that the one's I get made will be the same as the T7 in stainless with threaded bars for the micro adjustment.
Well I have had one made up as a trial with a local manufacturer and it works a treat. The threaded part is not the same as the original, so they supplied a nut that does the same job, and for cleavers this is fine. The threaded bar may not be stainless steel, I am unsure.
I also asked that they make the top bar longer by 3" as I often run out of room when doing knives longer that 12".
All in all this is a vast improvement.
If anyone wants one then I can supply at £30 plus postage to wherever you are. I will only charge the exact postal charge rate, plus the £30.
Drop me an email via my web site 'Contact Us' page at www.sharpknives.co.uk. I can send you a photo of the two side by side if required. I don't seem able to insert an image for some reason?
I will only be able to get some made up if I have more than 10 people interested, or 1 person wanting 10 units. When, or if that happens then I will put them for sale via my online shop and let interested parties know via email.
Quote from: robincbailey on September 22, 2010, 07:14:35 PM
The threaded bar may not be stainless steel, I am unsure.
Hold a magnet to it and see if there's an attraction.
Well I have only had one request so far.
This new support is all stainless steel and I can now sharpen any knife or cleaver with ease. The machine is not unstable with the extra long and wide support, and I feel so much more professional being able to just swap over the suppport for the larger one when required.
No more messing about holding a cleaver roughly at the correct position, I can now offer an exact angle of the customers choice just as I can with any other knife.
If you want me to supply one then go onto my web site and email me. www.sharpknives.co.uk (http://www.sharpknives.co.uk)
Robin,
I'm glad the extended support bar has worked for you. I checked out your website. Well done. It looks very professional, yet friendly. Offering the mobile service seems very smart. I'm sure a lot of businesses appreciate the convenience.
Best wishes for you and your business.
Ken
Many thanks for your comments Ken. Constructive criticism or comments are always welcomed.
You are more than welcome, Robin. I'm glad you followed through on your project.
Ken
Robin Bailey identified a missing design parameter on this forum. The standard universal support bar and knife jigs will not handle cleavers. I enjoy using my cleaver a lot. It works very well with vegetables like cabbage.
I could limp by with continuing with my Norton stones. However, Robin has provided a better alternative. I advised him I wish to order one of the special support bars he has designed. So far, only one other forum member has indicated a desire to purchase one.
I believe Robin's new bar will be a useful part of a knife sharpener's kit. His price is very reasonable. I hope members of the forum will will support him in this endeavor and order the special support bars from him.
Thanks, Robin, for providing a useful service.
Ken
Well its now over two years since I had the extended version made, and my machine has NEVER toppled over and I have now sharpened hundreds of chinese cleavers. This is also very good for knives 14 inch and longer.
Tormek - you are missing a trick here, and this jig is now a 'must have' for my tool box whenever I go out sharpening. I really would not even attempt a cleaver without this extra wide and tall support, as freehanding is just not good enough.
Robin, are you still making your support available for sale? I don't see a link anywhere on your site.
Also, do you use the Tormek to sharpen axes? If so, I'd be interested in how you do it.
Robin, my offer to purchase one of your extended support bars is still good. J'm glad your design has passed the two year field test. Good work.
Ken
I spoke ( via email ) with Robin today. To date, I'm only the second person that's willing to buy one of his longer universal support bars. It's somewhat incredulous that, in a world-wide market place, there aren't 10 people who would greatly benefit from this piece. If we, collectively, can get close to the 10 units required, I'll probably commit to buying the few remaining unsold pieces just to get one for myself. Come on folks.....let's make this deal happen.
Tom
This discussion reminds me of my experience with the Unimat (a small combination metal lathe and mill). Sadly, the Unimat is no longer manufactured. Over the years a few people have manufactured after market accessories for it. While the original accessories are generally available on ebay, the useful after market accessories are very hard to locate.
The Tormek jigs of course are readily available new. The only other after market accessory I have seen for the Tormek was a modified diamond dresser. I don't believe it is still available. Robin's long support bar seems like a fine idea. I hope there are enough orders to manufacture it. Some of us may regret not doing so when the need for it later arises.
Ken
I just made my own extension. I mounted the flat tool rest (sv-110) to point straight up giving me a few more inches of effective height on my tool rest. Securely clamp a horizontal support to it to make it as wide as you want.
I'm still willing to get some of these made up.
Why Tormek do not yet provide a taller and wider universal support is a bit of a mystery to me. I'm a professional sharpener using the Tormek every day for several hours each day, so would dispute anyone telling me that it's not safe or stable.
I have read the entire string. Glass guys suggestion is the best. One inch rise of the USA would not be bad for stability. You should exercise diligence when sharpening at 25 degrees or more on bigger knives, I have had many flip inward on me. Both hands must be steady.
A 3.5 inch tall cleaver at 35degres cannot be sharpened using the standard t7 universal support arm,
I would not recommend using the SVM-45 Knife Jig with a longer, homemade version of the Universal Support. It would be much safer, easier, and less expensive to make one of these ...
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1592.msg6634#msg6634
That other jig is not what is required for quite a few reasons.
I have now been using the extended jig for four years, day in day out and have never, not even once, had a single issue with it. What could be simpler, just extend what is already proven to work well. I'm not after reinventing the wheel, just applying a bit of common sense.
Quote from: Exact Blade on March 11, 2014, 04:52:15 AM
I have read the entire string. Glass guys suggestion is the best. One inch rise of the USA would not be bad for stability. You should exercise diligence when sharpening at 25 degrees or more on bigger knives, I have had many flip inward on me. Both hands must be steady.
A 3.5 inch tall cleaver at 35degres cannot be sharpened using the standard t7 universal support arm,
You do know that you can sharpen with the grinding wheel turning away from you, don't you? This will eliminate all possibility of the blade edge coming back toward you. While perhaps not as aggressive as the wheel turning towards you, it is infinitely safer.
We are going off subject a bit, however......
I find its too slow the other way. The only reason a knife would jump is that you are not applying enough downwards pressure to hold the knife jig stable on the universal support. This happens more on worn stones as the angle increases and is not that dangerous really, but certainly gives you a bit of a scare. Pay attention and it's not an issue.
This debate reminds me of a television program I recently watched about Edison and Tesla. Both were intelligent, dedicated people. I would not want to do without either AC or DC electrical power.
I have no doubt that Robin has become expert with his extended support bar, just as Herman has also become expert with the HK 50.
Personally, I would like to use both jigs. My first two attempts at converting my torlock have been less than successful. The third should solve my problems. (Thanks, Jeff Farris, for the solution.) Constructing one of Herman's jigs is also quite viable for me.
As I posted a long time ago: Robin, please include me on your customer list for a tall support bar.
When we have a choice between two very good ideas, I prefer to choose "both".
Ken
I now have the Extended Universal Support Bars in stock and for sale.
You can purchase them via my website
http://www.sharpknives.co.uk/onlineshop/prod_4360851-Extended-Universal-Support-Bar.html
Hi, Robin!
It's nice to have you back again. I sent in my inquiry for shipping your universal support "across the pond". My favorite Chinese cleaver is in need of sharpening; I am looking forward to your new tool.
Ken
If we use the link Robin Bailey has posted, we can get to his facebook site. Robin has posted a nice photo of his sharpening shop. Two Tormeks in the center, one with an SG-250 and one with an SB-250. Nice setup!
Ken
Thanks Ken, although it's handy for sharpening different steels its primarily because I run a training school for professional sharpeners. www.sharpening-service.co.uk
Ken, how are you getting on with the taller universal support bar
Nice to hear from you, Robin. Your taller universal extension bar is "just the ticket" for sharpening my favorite Chinese cleaver. My Chinese cleaver is designed primarily for slicing vegetables and has a very acute bevel angle. I used Dutchman's grinding tables (posted on the forun) and made a simple cardboard kenjig for the set up. Your bar allowed me to use the Tormek knife jig for the operation. It was an easy sharpen with Tormek quality bevels.
My crazy idea of using your tall extension bar from the opposite direction in the horizontal sleeves is only crazy when using the traditional wet grinding. (It cascades water all over!) When used dry with a CBN wheel to reshape a turning gouge, it lets me combine the natural turning feel of the horizontal position with the faster cutting action of grinding into the wheel. Reshaping time is noticeably reduced. You can hear and feel the difference in the grinding. This benefit is increased when one has the Tormek sitting on a too tall workbench.
I think an 80 grit CBN wheel and one of your extended support bars on the Tormek make an ideal combination for reshaping. Finish off with either the extended or regular extension bar in the horizontal sleeves from the other side with the SG or SB and leather honing wheel, and you are good to go. As the support bar is set by using the holes in the TTS-100, in this case, the microadjust is not needed.
For a busy knife sharpener, I believe, especially when used with the kenjig, your extended support bar could serve as either the primary or auxilliary support bar. It would save the day when a customer brought a Chinese cleaver to be sharpened.
I also believe that as more Tormekers start using CBN wheels to complement their regular wheels when reshaping turning tools, they will want one of your extended support bars.
My congratulations on seeing a goid idea through development to marketing! No regrets on my purchase.
Keep up the good work.
Ken
I noticed that the taller universal support bar isn't threaded for micro adjustments.
The knife jig has an adjustment built into it. There are some here that have threaded their older non-threaded standard universal support bars.That could be done to the extended bar if one feels it is a necessity.
The threaded microadjustment on the universal support is essential when using the TT-50 Truing Tool to true and dress the grinding wheel. However, for most other sharpening operations, I rarely use it. I use the setting holes in the TTS-100 to set the Distance between the support and the grinding wheel with chisels, plane blades, and turning tools. I use the kenjig to set the Distance with knives. I have standardized my Distance and Protrusion settings. I don't need to microadjust what doesn't change.
For those who do not have the TTS-100, all of these Distance settings could be done with kenjigs used as gage blocks. These are easily made up and are faster to set up than using the Anglemaster or black marker.
With the exception of truing the wheel, the taller support bar could be used all the time. In actual practice, most of the time I use the standard issue support. I find the smaller size more convenient. Not essential, just convenient. For sharpening my Chinese cleaver, the taller support is essential when using a knife jig, my preferred method. If I did not have the taller support, I would use my homemade Herman's small knife platform, another essential tool. I have also found the taller jig more efficient when reshaping turning tools on the Tormek using a dry CBN wheel.
The threaded microadjust is a major step forward for the Tormek. I would not be without it with the standard support for truing. With the taller support I have not found it necessary.
Ken
I threaded the shaft of my universal support rod and fashioned a home-made micro-adjust by cementing a nut into a juice bottle cap.
I use the micro-adjust feature for just about every sharpening task I perform on the Tormek. I also fashioned a platform that I attach to the base of the scissors jig and use that for all of my knife sharpening. I can do large cleavers and machetes, small pen knives, and everything in between. It also has the advantage of being able to sharpen an unlimited number of knives to the same bevel angle with no adjustments or need to reconfigure jigs in between.
This works only when grinding towards the edge. It won't work for those who like to grind away from the edge.
OK, Hermann. That sound cool what you've done with the scissors jig. Pictures please !!
Rich
Ionut's
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1191.msg3308#msg3308
https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=bc168f3568163031&id=BC168F3568163031%21299&Bsrc=EMSHOO&Bpub=SN.Notifications&sff=1
Herman's jig
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1560.0
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1592.0
An adaptation to Herman's and Ionut's jigs
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1605.msg6897#msg6897p