Hi folks, so I am thinking of buying a couple of cbn wheels but which ones... I was thinking on the 160 and a 1000 but I've read that's too much of a stretch. I dont really want to buy 3 so can I get away with a 400 and a 1000?
Hi ABall,
I think 160 to 1000 is too big of a jump and you'll wear out the latter. If it were me I'd probably go 160 and 400 and use the composite wheel or leather wheel for the finer work... 400 and 1000 would also be a compatible pair but then you wouldn't have anything for the more intensive reshaping like the 160 can do for you (other than presumably your SG250?)....
Quote from: BradGE on December 25, 2020, 10:56:25 PM
Hi ABall,
I think 160 to 1000 is too big of a jump and you'll wear out the latter. If it were me I'd probably go 160 and 400 and use the composite wheel or leather wheel for the finer work... 400 and 1000 would also be a compatible pair but then you wouldn't have anything for the more intensive reshaping like the 160 can do for you (other than presumably your SG250?)....
Thanks BradGE, I do have the SG 250 and I also have the Japanese Waterstone but I'm getting tired of trueing stones. My SG is down to about 237mm.
As a member, I like Brad's suggestion of 160 and 400 grit. Diamond and CBN wheels cut differently than conventional wheels.Those two will give you a good range. You have several options for finer grit, including the SG graded fine, the leather honing wheel or the composite wheel(CW-220).
As forum moderator, I have no problem discussing CBN grits; however, I want to keep discussion of brands off forum.
Ken
ABall,
I am curious about your wheel wear. Reaching a wheel diameter of 237mm may be normal or it may be excessive depending upon the kind of steel, kind of tool, volume of sharpening, and the truing technique.
More background information will yield better answers.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on December 26, 2020, 01:12:07 AM
ABall,
I am curious about your wheel wear. Reaching a wheel diameter of 237mm may be normal or it may be excessive depending upon the kind of steel, kind of tool, volume of sharpening, and the truing technique.
More background information will yield better answers.
Ken
Hi Ken, I havnt had the T8 very long but a few things have caused premature wear, one is me liking the speed of steel removal when creating new bevels on all my chisels so I true more often to get that courness. I've also been a bit heavy handed at times with the trueing tool and I've gone way further than needed, mostly just my impatience then. I think I will go for the 160 and 400. I've managed to keep the Japanese waterstone in good condition using a little white block sent to me for reviewing a whetstone i purchased on Amazon so I am very happy about that.
Quote from: Ken S on December 25, 2020, 11:50:28 PM
As a member, I like Brad's suggestion of 160 and 400 grit. Diamond and CBN wheels cut differently than conventional wheels.Those two will give you a good range. You have several options for finer grit, including the SG graded fine, the leather honing wheel or the composite wheel(CW-220).
As forum moderator, I have no problem discussing CBN grits; however, I want to keep discussion of brands off forum.
Ken
Hi Ken - I could understand why discussions of alternative sharpening systems might not be allowed. But shouldn't the mention of brand names for accessories for Tormeks be permitted? After all, in those cases Tormek remains central and integral.
Hi, ABall.
I have often compared grinding wheels with brake linings of vehicles; both are long term consumables. The comparison between the two goes further. Just as the first set of brake linings on a young driver's car may not last as long as my senior citizen brake linings, I suspect most first Tormek grinding wheels are worn out more quickly than subsequent wheels.
Whether or not you decide to invest in CBN wheels is certainly your decision, however, the SG is specifically designed for high carbon tool steel, the steel of tools like chisels and plane blades. If you move to entirely CBN without really mastering the SG (including truing), you will leave a hole in your sharpening education. Whether or not you include CBN at this time, I would encourage you to master the SG.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Thanks Ken, and I would echo what BradGE says....
Are you saying the CBN wheels aren't the right tool for my chisels and plane blades? The courser grits seem to be the right call in my eyes due to my favour of a trued wheel for beveling. I've also made a right mess of the grading stone switching grades, the smooth side has worn very unevenly, I just think cbn will take away a lot of the faf that I know is a part of this system but it doesn't have to be does it? I spend more time than I feel I should in my workshop just playing with the T8, I think I just want to make the process as simple and speedy as possible, at the same time I want to make sure I'm buying the right tools for the job at hand.
Alan.
Good point, Brad.
In the past, there have been many posts comparing CBN wheels. I have personally had entirely satisfactory purchases from all of the major CBN vendors, and will not disparage any of them. However, there are hard feelings between some of the vendors which I do not want to spill over onto the forum.
There is plenty of information about CBN wheels, both on this forum and elsewhere. This is readily available with online searching. Anyone wanting more information should certainly pursue it, just not on new posts on this forum.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on December 26, 2020, 06:28:47 PM
Good point, Brad.
In the past, there have been many posts comparing CBN wheels. I have personally had entirely satisfactory purchases from all of the major CBN vendors, and will not disparage any of them. However, there are hard feelings between some of the vendors which I do not want to spill over onto the forum.
There is plenty of information about CBN wheels, both on this forum and elsewhere. This is readily available with online searching. Anyone wanting more information should certainly pursue it, just not on new posts on this forum.
Ken
Ken,
Thank you. I appreciate you keeping us on topic.
Rich
Ken,
Thank you. I appreciate you keeping us on topic.
Rich
Did I miss a few posts about vendors that were deleted? I dont see any mention here of who sells what or where to buy, where did we go off topic? I was asking about grit choices..... Is Tormek worried about this sort of thing? I cant even buy CBN from Australia since we had this Brexit crap, I must read the rules again to see what's permitted I guess.... so dont mention CBN..... but diamond stones are ok because Tormek sell them. Does Tormek have a voice here or do they leave it to the mods to decide what can and cant be spoken?
Alan.
I just want to make a note that I have spent close to a thousand pounds on the T8, the Japanese Waterstone and a set of extra jigs so I am well and truly invested in Tormek...... oh and I only sharpen my own stuff, it's not like I am making money from this system. Let's get some perspective here, Tormek can hopefully make a living while Vadim and Hanns can sell products for this amazing system.
I would like to clear up some things:
Tormek has not been involved in this. I am the only forum moderator. I try to keep the moderator work fair and minimal. I do not remember posts related to CBN wheels being deleted, certainly not on a wholesale basis.
I have always tried to discuss both Tormek and non Tormek products on a level playing field. No Tormek product gets a free pass because it is Tormek. For the record, I have purchased four CBN wheels.
Since this forum began in 2003, we have had an informal non commercial policy for non Tormek products. This has been enforced very lightly. We started discussing CBN wheels long before Tormek started selling diamond wheels. As Tormek had no similar products, I saw no conflict of interest for the forum. Within reasonable limits of not promoting non Tormek products, I have always tried to have the forum be an information source for anything which benefits Tormek users.
I do not want to discourage questions; I just want to keep the forum non commercial.
Ken
Totally understand Ken, I was realy replying to the post by Rich, it kinda wond me up a little as I didnt feel it was warranted on this occasion, this is a great resource and I would like to keep within the ethos of the forum, thanks for clearing things up.
Alan.
Please accept my apology if I offended anyone. I've seen other forums have topics go in bad directions, and I really appreciate how Ken helps this one stay on the top of sharpening using Tormek products.
I agree that this is a loose term, especially as there are so many items where Tormek doesn't offer solutions (e.g., the calculators offered by a few). And I also love the research by those like Dr. Vadim Kraichuk at KnifeGrinders (http://knifegrinders.com.au/). Innovation should be encouraged.
But in all cases, I mostly feel that the community of sharing is key to us getting better. As a favorite podcast notes, "None of us is as smart as all of us."
So if I offended, please forgive me.
Returning to the original theme, i´m going to explain my opinion.
Using any of the wheels, is highly recomended to increase the grit progresively.
This is the way to minimize the process time and the way to not overworked the higher grit wheels.
A very high jump between wheel grits make that the next wheel must work very long time, whith logical wear and time of work increase.
Tormek offers three wheels logicaly staggered and I think that this offer is a good reference for use in any kind of wheels.
Regards
Thanks for every ones input including you Rich, ;)
I just pulled the trigger on the 400 and 160 CBN plus a speed up adaptor. I will either buy another SG or the 1000 cbn at some point, I am going to have to be very careful with these wheels and as you say Ken I will carry on using the SG until I can master the technique, I have trouble lifting long blades while keeping the Jig square to prevent pivoting. It also seems to create tram lines so I have a way to go....
Alan.
Alan,
Practice and experience will help you fine tune your sharpening. I think you will be pleased with your two new CBN wheels. The 160 grit wheel will add some octane for your heavier grinding. You will have grinding speed which is closer to a higher speed dry grinder with all the benefits of wet grinding.
I recently purchased a 400 grit CBN wheel. It is a nice grit size for general knife sharpening. I have a set of Tormek diamond wheels; however, I want to be familiar with both choices. Used on a Tormek, both choices are good.
Enjoy your new wheels.
Ken
Thanks Ken. ;D
You're welcome, Alan. Keep us posted.
Ken
I was wondering if i shouldn't order the 1000cbn while Im at it, Ive been sharpening a 25cm slicer @15 degrees and its taking a long time to remove all the scratches from the 220grit SG, I have set it to 1000 and it seems to be taking for ever to change the entire scratch pattern along the knife. Is this normal? its 1.4116-x50 MoV15 so not a hard steel. Heres a pic, theres spots like this all along the edge at various places.
(https://i.imgur.com/DjfJU2k.jpg)
Just thought I would update, the CBN wheels arrived yesterday and ive had a little play, I absolutely love these things! Both wheels are the same size measured with my micrometer so theirs no need for me to faff about changing bar heights and the only thing I would say is I wish I had purchased the 1000grit too, compared to going from 160 to 400, it takes an age going from the 400 to my 1000g SG wheel. I have decided to go from the 400 straight to deburring until I can get the next CBN. Quality seems to be exceptional and I am so glad I took the plunge,
ATB
Alan
Alan,
In my earlier replies with this topic, I stated that although I feel discussing grits is an appropriate topic, recommending non Tormek products by name, including a website is not appropriate. Please delete the last part of your last reply. If this doesn't happen, as forum moderator, I will delete the topic.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on January 08, 2021, 08:59:02 PM
Alan,
In my earlier replies with this topic, I stated that although I feel discussing grits is an appropriate topic, recommending non Tormek products by name, including a website is not appropriate. Please delete the last part of your last reply. If this doesn't happen, as forum moderator, I will delete the topic.
Ken
Done.
Thank you.
Ken
(https://i.imgur.com/DjfJU2k.jpg)
[/quote]
An "off topic" question
With what tools did you get this photo?
Thanks
Quote from: van on January 09, 2021, 02:36:23 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/DjfJU2k.jpg)
An "off topic" question
With what tools did you get this photo?
Thanks
[/quote]
Just my phone, Samsung Galaxy S9+.
Alan,
As a dedicated film photographer of many decades, accustomed to working with a 4x5 view camera, I have been dubious of cel phone cameras. In both film and digital, there is no shortage of mediocre work. However, your photograph is outstanding. I could not do any better with my expensive specialized Nikon close up equipment.
You are obviously a very competent photographer. I wish I knew the answer to your question. I don't, but I encourage you to keep asking.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on January 09, 2021, 04:32:06 PM
Alan,
As a dedicated film photographer of many decades, accustomed to working with a 4x5 view camera, I have been dubious of cel phone cameras. In both film and digital, there is no shortage of mediocre work. However, your photograph is outstanding. I could not do any better with my expensive specialized Nikon close up equipment.
You are obviously a very competent photographer. I wish I knew the answer to your question. I don't, but I encourage you to keep asking.
Ken
Very high praise thank you Ken, I used to have a Panasonic G7 with a couple of grands worth of lenses but I never really used it much so I dabbled and sold it for my other other hobby, HiFi. About the only thing its taught me is I hate pictures that are not detailed and in focus, camera phones are so good now, if they have enough light they can really take good pictures with little effort as seen by my knife pic. To be fair even in lower light conditions its a great camera, it has an F1.5 - 2.4 aperture, something you know would cost more than my entire phone on a half decent camera. (I know its not a fair comparison) But also see the latest CCTV cameras, you can now buy one that has an F1.0 and it does not slip into black and white at night, the difference in the image at night is jaw dropping. Even if these cameras dont have enough light they have a supplemental LED to keep them in colour. The price for such technology, a mere £130. Trust me thats cheap for an IP camera but im getting off topic.....
I think the none polished parts of the edge are caused by inexperience, I suspect I am causing small troughs through not keeping the blade perfectly parallel during sweeps and its taking a lot more work with the finer stone to flatten it off again.