Is it possible to purchase a narrow stone for the tormek to sharpen curved knives? If not is there a way to have someone cut the stone in thirds to make it more narrow. I know the second option sounds crazy but I cant afford a $700 wicked edge sharpening system to do what I need.
I recall someone posting about having sliced their grindstones to do the very thing you're asking about. So, yes, but I don't know how it was done.
Thanks Herman!!! I would love to find out how to do this! I tried searching for any post about slicing the stone but nothing is coming up.
Here is the thread:
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1836.0
Chiltop used an angle grinder to slice up old grindstones.
Kenny, you lost me.
You ask is it possible to purchase a narrower stone for the Tormek to sharpen curved knives. Am I correct in thinking you mean a grinding wheel with a round surface for sharpening knives with a concave curve? You could adapt the standard Tormek grinding wheel to do this. It would be a lot of work to reface the stone. if I was to do this, I would want the stone to be a separate dedicated grinding wheel.
Other grinding wheels can be adapted to the Tormek. I covered this in a recent topic. It can be done, however, is it practical or profitable? The Tormek is designed to work with its specially formulated 50mm wide grinding wheels. Using non standard grinding wheels may or may not even be safe. You may be further ahead to use another tool specifically designed for this kind of grinding.
I am leery about cutting Tormek grinding wheels in thirds. I speak from no knowledge of this. I would start with a wheel designed to be narrow.
"I cant afford a $700 wicked edge sharpening system to do what I need." This is where you really lost me. I looked on the Wicked Edge site and watched several of their videos. it is an interesting product. However, I really don't see what it will do that a Tormek won't do. (I note the exception of working where there is no electrical power.) Incidentally, the professional model costs considerably more than seven hundred US dollars.
What is it that you need to do that can't be done with the Tormek and can be done with the wicked edge? The wicked edge looks like a clever concept for sharpening knives. I don't have any criticisms of it for that purpose. The one claim I would question is that any employee could quickly be trained to sharpen knives in just a few minutes. This may be so, but I would be reluctant to trust "any employee" with my good Henckel knives.
The Tormek can certainly sharpen knives. It can also sharpen almost any tool in the shop or home. The wicked edge may well be a superb tool for knives, but I don't see where it can sharpen anything else.
Please correct me if I am incorrect.
Like you, I enjoy tinkering with the Tormek, pushing it beyond its limits of the time. The last thing I would want to do is discourage you. Do keep posting and asking questions.
Ken
How about a concrete cutoff saw? Any company installing sidewalks would have one and you can rent them for cheap too. A place that cuts stone would have some version, maybe even a diamond encrusted, water cooled band saw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0MxHmDmyLQ
Quote from: Ken S on March 17, 2015, 01:28:50 AM
Kenny, you lost me.
....(...)
What is it that you need to do that can't be done with the Tormek and can be done with the wicked edge? The wicked edge looks like a clever concept for sharpening knives. I don't have any criticisms of it for that purpose. The one claim I would question is that any employee could quickly be trained to sharpen knives in just a few minutes. This may be so, but I would be reluctant to trust "any employee" with my good Henckel knives.
The Tormek can certainly sharpen knives. It can also sharpen almost any tool in the shop or home. The wicked edge may well be a superb tool for knives, but I don't see where it can sharpen anything else.
Ken
Ken,
I understand your frustration with the OP, .. I read and re-read his post several times, and I think the issue is that he has not specifically told us what exactly this "curved blade" is that he has. Is it a hawk bill or recurved blade? Or is it a knife with the bevel on the outside of a circle like a Pizza Cutter ? We need to know more about what he is up against. Maybe he can post a photobucket picture for us. That would help a lot to unscramble the issue. If he just wants a quick inexpensive fix then a Norton India Slip Stone will get him going if the knife is a recurve type.
I can not resist making a editorial comment on your comment on the Wicked Edge system: I own both Wicked Edge and Tormek and after 50+ years of sharpening everything in sight (I started, like many of us at my Fathers side in his woodworking shop when I was barely tall enough to peek over the bench!) I just want to observe that it's a case of "different tools for different jobs" .. You are right the WE is specifically for knife blades, and the Tormek is a broad range commercial device for many other cutting tools besides just knife blades.
But the WE system has found a home with the dedicated bunch of us (all of us have a little OS in our hearts, ie.e Obsessive Sharpeners!), we use the WE system to Diamond micro polish Custom Blades from the "world of Art-Knife Makers", and also to experiment with blades where the goal is to sharpen well into and beyond the range of microtomes. For that it is suited very well, and, to be honest, the Tormek is really not designed to play in that ball game. That is not a "knock" on Tormek, it is just a statement of fact. Tormek outstrips the WE system in so many other regards, and it is so perfectly suited to certain jobs for which it s designed, that it it rates a 5 Star in its world and when used within its reach. But, just the same in the world of Custom Art Knives and "OS" the WE is also 5 Stars. To give you an idea how insane it gets: I have mounted optically flat glass plates on my WE and used 0.25 micron Diamond paste. Trust me, the result is sharper than what you can get on a Tormek.
Again, I have both systems, use each one where it is appropriate for the job, and am very happy that both Tormek and WE exist, so that I can play in the world of sharp things!
-Dan
PS: I know Clay personally, and don't be bothered by "marketing verbage".. Yes of course the learning curve on a WE is very steep, and not just any employee can use it! Clay is doing the best he can to survive with his little venture in a very competitive world, and sometimes to goal is to just "sell a few units".. That's a sad comment on the world we live in, please do not hold it against WE.. .thanks for understanding..
Thank you Dan for your comment on the Wicked Edge sharpening system. :)
I have recently watched several videos concerning WE usage. In my opinion it is simple but ingenious concept focused on knives.
How do I post pictures?
Thanks!
Kenny,
This should help posting images. :) Let me know if you have any questions.
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=2342.msg11402#msg11402
(http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah317/kennyhallam/curved%20knife_zpskxyqyxrz.jpg) (http://s1383.photobucket.com/user/kennyhallam/media/curved%20knife_zpskxyqyxrz.jpg.html)
Sorry the pic is so big. This is an example of the type blade I am needing to sharpen. I have a Filipino martial arts school that trains specifically in knife fighting. They have many knives with these funky type of blades.
Thank you everyone for your help!!!
Quote from: KennyH on March 17, 2015, 10:26:47 PM..() I have a Filipino martial arts school that trains specifically in knife fighting. They have many knives with these funky type of blades.
...
Thanks for the picture, that helps a lot..!! You have there a Karambit style blade. If you only have this one and you are going to just keep it sharp for your own purposes, in other words you are not going to volunteer to sharpen all 100 such blades in use by each of the 100 other members of your martial Arts School ;), I would suggest you just use a set of Norton Slip Stones and Hand Sharpen the blade. Available for $9 bucks from: http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-India-Round-Edge-Slip-Stone-P180.aspx (http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-India-Round-Edge-Slip-Stone-P180.aspx)
If you want to use the Tormek then for about $60 bucks you can get a Tormek Profiled Leather Wheel
Item #: TOR-LA120, these have two standard discs have a radius of 3 mm (1/8") and a 60 degree tip. The set of optional narrow discs have a radius of 2 mm (3/32") and a 45º tip. These smaller disc profiles permit the honing of small carving tools with very narrow profiles. The diameter of the larger wheel has been increased from 100 mm (4") to 120 mm (4¾"), which speeds up the honing process. I think they would work very well on your Karambit , You might have to experiment removing the large main leather wheel to allow for clearance when grinding the curves on your blade, But remember that you have a very small folder there and you can easily remove the pivot screw and disassemble the folder, then manipulate the blade without the folder handle interfering with the sharpening operation. Also, You might want to experiment with various heavy diamond grit pastes on the leather.. .. WE sells an assortment of these pastes for only $6 a tube, which is a real bargin. The Stock supplied paste that comes with the Tormek will not have the right cutting action to sharpen these blades, although it would be possible to use it but, I would suggest Dia pastes, far faster, and more suited to the job.
Yes, if you want to use the WE system you will have to buy or fab special curved paddles, and unless you already own a WE you will be in it far more $$$ than you would want.
(http://tormek.com/images/accessories/la120/la120_150_label.jpg)
Hope this helps -Dan
For hand sharpening of my peeling (tourné) knife I am using ceramic steels with 1" diameter.
I suppose it will work well also with your curved fighting knives. :)
(http://img16.rajce.idnes.cz/d1601/11/11132/11132221_df5517d4a3137dd2074ebaaceb6b3771/images/Peeling_knife_Small.jpg?ver=0)
Yikes! I would think "training" to fight with a knife like that would be somewhat risky.
Yet another way to sharpen curved blades is to use a belt grinder with film or soft backed belts, some of which are very soft and flexible. Back off on the tension a bit and these easily conform well to curved blades. Start with the edge of the belt and with a continuous smooth motion push in as you go around the curve using just enough width of the belt that is appropriate for the radius of the curve. With a little practice it's a lot quicker than hand sharpening and produces excellent results. A tool rest can maintain a consistent bevel angle, or just whip if off by hand if you are not that picky about a particular blade.
Quote from: sharpnails on March 17, 2015, 11:17:09 PM
I would suggest you just use a set of Norton Slip Stones and Hand Sharpen the blade. Available for $9 bucks from: http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-India-Round-Edge-Slip-Stone-P180.aspx (http://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-India-Round-Edge-Slip-Stone-P180.aspx)
Would you recommend these for sharpening the scallops on a serrated bread knife? They look like they'd be well suited to the task.
Quote from: grepper on March 17, 2015, 04:25:14 PM
How about a concrete cutoff saw?
This gets me thinking about the saws that geologists use to slice stones. Maybe one of those could be used to slice up an old Tormek grindstone.
Jan and Grepper's suggestions both seem promising. Lee Valley sells a set of wooden pieces with different radii. They might be a possibility. However, don't overlook the larger dowels with diamond paste. As I recall, a kit of three tubes of different diamond paste sells for around thirty dollars (Lee Valley carries the kit). A good hardware store should have the larger dowels.For around forty dollars, you should be in business.
Just a side note: I lean toward the Sloyd approach (a traditional Scandinavian craft instruction approach which begins with learning to sharpen and use a knife). Are the students taught how to maintain and sharpen their knives?
Ken
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on March 18, 2015, 08:29:15 PM
Quote from: grepper on March 17, 2015, 04:25:14 PM
How about a concrete cutoff saw?
This gets me thinking about the saws that geologists use to slice stones. Maybe one of those could be used to slice up an old Tormek grindstone.
Sure, these are, in the lapidary world, called "Slab Saws"
(http://howsharpisit.com/images/Slab%20Saw-1.jpg)
it is interesting,.. but tools for lapidary are virtually un-used and virtually unknown to us folks in the world of "sharp blades" .. I have never understood why that is, as polishing, abrasives, flat surfaces, diamond pastes, etc, etc, ..are, in Lapidary, very well developed technology. We would do well to have a look around there ;)
(http://howsharpisit.com/images/Slab%20Saw-1-3.jpg)
-Dan
Fascinating post. Thants, Dan.
Ken
Forget the wimpy little lapidary stuff... Here's what you need! 15.7 inches of raw, industrial strength concrete cutting power!
http://www.barrysgravely.com/shop/industrial-equipment/stihl-gs-461-rock-boss/+
The little cutoff saws listed below it are half the cost though.
:)
The thing is that the grindstone is 250mm, so at least about a 125mm cut would be necessary to whack the thing in half. I suspect finding anyone locally with a 250mm water cooled, diamond tipped band saw might be difficult unless you live near a quarry. But any local contractor doing sidewalks or driveways would have a cutoff saw, and might be willing to chop a stone in half for some reasonable fee.
Quote from: grepper on March 19, 2015, 04:56:04 PM
Forget the wimpy little lapidary stuff... Here's what you need! ..(..)
Very Funny ;D ;D !
Wimpy Lapidary? Check this out.. an Agate Round about 4 Feet in Diameter ;)
(http://www.howsharpisit.com/images/Big%20Cut%20Agate%20Slab-1.jpg)
and here's the big brother of the one I posted yesterday:
(http://www.howsharpisit.com/images/Big%20Slab%20Saws-2.jpg)
-and-
(http://www.howsharpisit.com/images/Big%20Slab%20Saws-3.jpg)
;) - Dan
Quote from: grepper on March 19, 2015, 04:56:04 PM
Forget the wimpy little lapidary stuff... Here's what you need! 15.7 inches of raw, industrial strength concrete cutting power!
There's a name given to a certain "type" of carpenter. It's "chain-saw carpenter". Let's just say they don't make the cleanest of cuts. :)
QuoteThe thing is that the grindstone is 250mm, so at least about a 125mm cut would be necessary to whack the thing in half.
I was thinking more along the lines of cutting up an old one that was pretty well worn down. Slicing up a new one is an expensive proposition.
Wow. Now, THAT's some lapidary! Beautiful too. And, totally not wimpy! :). I had not thought of lapidary on that scale. Very cool.
Slicing up a grindstone is sort of interesting to think about though. Say you actually wanted to get a clean, accurate slice, how could you do it? Short of a homemade solution with something like a concrete cutoff saw, it is difficult to solve. There's waterjet cutting services. Very accurate, but I'm sure the setup fees alone would be prohibitive, even if you could get them to do a one-off job. There are places that specialize in slicing up stone. I even found one here in Michigan. But again, I'll bet they would charge too much for a little one time job.
http://www.thestonemillinc.com/index.htm
Fun to think about, but it all seems like overkill and impractical to me.
I think the best suggestion so far is sharpnails' suggestion about using a heavy grit diamond past on the Tormek profiled leather wheels. It might also be the best idea yet for sharpening serrated knives! Someone please give it a try and let us know!
I have a set of high speed paper wheels that came with glue and extra abrasive power. After the original abrasive wears off, you just smear it with glue, covert it with abrasive and it's good to go again. I wonder if the same thing would work on the leather wheels, or even necessary. Maybe just smearing it with compound is all that is needed.
As much as I like all you guys, when it comes to sharpening my favorite kitchen knives, I think I'll stick with Dan's Nordic Track sharpener. It seems a little "kinder and gentler" than concrete saws! :)
Ken
With these inside curves I just use the corner of the Tormek wheel, then I finish them on a Spyderco SharpMaker or a modofied F. Dick RS-75 sharpener with narrow wheels for serrated knives.
http://sharpeningmadeeasy.com/dick.htm