In an earlier post I mentioned that I hadn't used enough oil on my stropping wheel. I asked if I should put more oil on it. The response from several members was to not re-oil, but rather just continue using it as is. Today, I took a look at the manual, as I should have done to begin with, duh. It says to impregnate the wheel with a light oil, then apply the diamond paste, first while turning the wheel by hand, and then to work the paste in with a tool while running. It also states that one application should be good for doing 8 to 10 tools, after which a few drops of oil should be put on the stropping wheel. I am not complaining here about the advice, which was given in the spirit of friendly helpfulness and which I appreciate, but I felt it would be worth correcting the misconception. I also learned that I should not waste others time and efforts asking questions that are covered by the manual (although I will probably do it again anyway) :)
woa there Mike....this is a biggy....don't go splurging oil all over your wheel....despite what the manual says...you'll ruin it.
Jeff can you jump in here please.
Mike...this has ben widely discussed all over the place here historically and the clear advice is very sparing amounts of oil or you create problems downstream.
Can you highlight the page numbers in the manual where it says use copious amounts of oil please?
Many thanks
R
Quote from: mike40 on August 06, 2013, 07:00:40 PM
It also states that one application should be good for doing 8 to 10 tools, after which the wheel should be re-oiled.
I followed that advice until my honing wheel would no longer cut. It took me a along time to work all that oil out of it and I will never oil it again unless it seems to need it. And as far as I can tell it'll never need it.
It said to impregnate it with a light oil. I did re-oil and that worked fine. Sorry it didn't say 'saturate' it said 'impregnate' and to put a few drop of oil on again after doing 8-10 tools. I will change that word in my original post. You can find this info on pg. 44 of the manual. I was careful not to over oil the wheel.
I found it already...here it is:
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b598/byoomholay/Tormek%20Stuff/8773b255-3b40-4295-87e1-36ca0ded8956_zps7ac0e102.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/byoomholay/media/Tormek%20Stuff/8773b255-3b40-4295-87e1-36ca0ded8956_zps7ac0e102.jpg.html)
So number one...its definitely not saturate. That was really sending alarm bells. The discussion (which Herman has already alluded to) involved the over oiling of a wheel and the need to then dry it out because it stopped working.
Basically, to summarise the advice from Jeff:
Oil sparingly at the beginning with light machine oil. After that the honing compound should be enough to keep the wheel conditioned before use. If its not used for a long time and really dries out, perhaps a little more but emphasis was always on sparing quantities...drops not squirts :-)
I appreciate the manual is declaring a more oily approach than that. Again, the tip from the top was not to do that.
Quote from: mike40 on August 06, 2013, 07:00:40 PM
I also learned that I should not waste others time and efforts asking questions that are covered by the manual (although I will probably do it again anyway) :)
Mike,
Don't be so hard on yourself......Better to ask and know than not to ask and wonder. :D
Ken
Jeff has told us that oiling is a one-time-only process that's performed only on a new wheel. And only once.
Did I say only once?
Yes, only one time.
I must say I thought I remembered that exactly too. The manual is a bit confusing isn't it?
"Man is the only animal with the one true religion, all seven of them"
Mark Twain
I have to say though that while I didn't 'saturate' my wheel, I did use a lot more oil than the first time. Originally I had had an awful time getting the paste to stick to the wheel, but now it is working really well. I guess I was overly cautious with the oil the first time. Anyway, I am glad that frustration is over.
So far, I've had excellent results re-stropping my chisels to restore edges. I've been making a handplane till with a lot of grooves and dados and with box joints for the main frame. I could have used my router for this work, but I decided instead to use just my chisels as a test to see how well the Tormek edges would stand up. I used my bandsaw for the straight cuts on the box joints and then a coping saw to remove most of the waste, the rest was shaved with a chisel. I got throughout 6 joints before I stropped the edge again. Strictly speaking, I could have easily finished all 8, but the stropping made it a little better. I had to do 4 grooves about 85" long altogether. I didn't have to re-strop for that work, as it was mainly with the grain. This work was in pine, so I would probably get quite a different result in hardwood. I'll give that try eventually too.
well that's good feedback Mike. The proof is in the pudding :-)
My big protestations were to try and avoid you getting into a tangle with the wheel downstream. Given your experience I guess there is a range or tolerance of how much oil is "enough" and clearly you didn't go over the top. Box joints sound great :-) One of my favourite joints in fact.
Mike,
It sounds like you have not only made a useful plane till, you have mastered the leather honing wheel. Good job!
My local grocery store sells bamboo skewers. They are essentially pointed dowels about 1/8" (3 mm) in diameter. I would think they would not be expensive, even in Norway. :)
Each skewer (about forty in a pack) would provide about enough dowel material to peg the joints in your till. If you cut them just a little short of the hole depth, you could darken them. When driven level, they would add a decorative staccato effect, as well as adding some (probably unneeded) strength to the joints.
They are useful for many purposes. My grandson just put together a Lego Mario motorcycle, minus one of the handlebar grips. With a touch of gaffer tape, a piece of skewer blackened with a sharpie made a tolerable replacement.
Ken
Ron, box joints are one of my favorites too. I like them because you get the same look on both sides of the joint whereas dovetails have one nice looking joint (the tails) and the other side isn't too great. I do cut blind dovetails for my drawers though as the bad part doesn't show.
Ken, as a matter of fact, I have been using those bamboo skewers for many years as small dowels. I even use them for BBQ on occasion, lol. I don't think these joints will need pinning though. I'm almost finished with it, having glued it up yesterday. I just have make dividers now, which should be a quick job. I'm not sure when though, as I have to clip a lot of hedges. I sharpened my hedge clippers on the Tormek. Nice edge, but it took me awhile learning to keep control while sharpening, but it went well with a little practice.
I use blind dovetails too.....with a router jig :-)
Well, it appears the ground has been well covered, but I wanted to add that I have seen many more wheels damaged by too much oil than I have frustrated owners who needed to use more oil.
The entire point of using oil at all is to conserve honing compound. If you partially fill the leather with oil, you don't have to fill it with compound to get compound on the surface.
I'm not convinced that handbook has it right. I've rarely had an application of compound last for more than 2 or 3 tools. I find I go through less compound if I put a little bit (one very thin stripe all the way around) every couple of tools rather than putting a lot on and expecting it to last.
Routers are wonderful and very versatile tools Rob. I use mine quite a bit, a British Trend router BTW,and I also have a few cheap ones, but I have never learned to love them, even though I built a nice router table and split adjustable fence for it which works very well. Maybe it's the high pitched screaming sound they make. I guess it's old age. I like it quiet nowadays! There are of course many things a router can do very precisely and quickly, and of course working oak by hand isn't quite as much fun as pine (English understatement).
Any word on the shelf life of the honing compound? I have a tube that until recently went unopened for 12 years. It seems to have too much oil in it, but I think it's working ok.
Herman,
Put the cap on and squish it around a little. It will mix back together.
As for shelf life....think Twinkies. Short of nuclear holocaust (or leaving the cap off), it should be fine.
Jeff, I did use the paste sparingly as you suggest, about the amount I saw you using in your videos. I think I have about the right balance of oil and paste now. I agree that actual experience is better than the manual, but in this case it did give me the confidence to add more oil without fearing that I would ruin the wheel, and it worked out well, but I was careful not to overcompensate.
Jeff, I did use the paste sparingly as you suggest, about the amount I saw you using in your videos. I think I have about the right balance of oil and paste now. I agree that actual experience is better than the manual, but in this case it did give me the confidence to add more oil without fearing that I would ruin the wheel, and it worked out well, but I was careful not to overcompensate.
Could someone please tell me how to put a quote in a post? I tried it above, but wound up with a double post instead.
Quote from: mike40 on August 08, 2013, 10:27:01 AM
Could someone please tell me how to put a quote in a post? I tried it above, but wound up with a double post instead.
Go to the upper right hand side of the post box area of the post you want to quote and press the quote button.
That pastes the text from that entire post into a new post of your making. You can then edit that text as you would normally if perhaps you didn't want to quote the entire original posters content.
Further the quoted content is held between place markers which look like this [/quote] one at start and one at end. Obviously don't mess with them :-)
By way of visual explanation.....
(http://i1293.photobucket.com/albums/b598/byoomholay/Tormek%20Stuff/977713cc-d89d-40f3-8bba-33c3d60e46fa_zps8aead721.jpg) (http://s1293.photobucket.com/user/byoomholay/media/Tormek%20Stuff/977713cc-d89d-40f3-8bba-33c3d60e46fa_zps8aead721.jpg.html)
Quote from: Rob on August 08, 2013, 12:40:13 PM
By way of visual explanation.....
Got it Ron. Thanks very much.
No probs. It's Rob by the way :-)
Sorry Rob, I know your name, but the 'n' is right next to the 'b' on the keyboard, so it's actually the fault of my wild fingers. (damn those fingers!).
Just teasing Mije...I get it all the time.....dam that name :-)
No problem, it's Mikw by way.
oh very drole Oscar :-) Buffalo...where...on the croquet lawn...blam (sorry lapsed into Monty Python)
Elsewhere I posted that my instruction booklet recommended that I use 14mL of light oil on a new leather wheel (T7). I don't recall a recommendation in the booklet for additional oil to rejuvenate the leather. My leather wheel gets infrequent use so, presumably, the oil evaporates and leaves behind a concentrate of paste, spent grinding particles and steel burr. It is black. So, how do I refresh (rejuvenate) the leather?
I've had that happen to mine. The wheel turned shiny and hard. I did a very light sanding with coarse sandpaper. Not enough to actually remove any of the leather, but just enough to break the glaze. Then I put oil on a piece of paper towel and ran it around the wheel.
The paper towel worked very well to distribute the oil evenly over the surface rather trying to drool it over the surface.
You don't want to hurt the surface or remove any leather, just enough to break the crusty cement.
I don't know if this is recommended, but it worked great.
Black is good. It is normal.
Thanks grepper, seems a good way to go. Those who care for leather (saddles, boots) may use leather soap!
Yea, in a way the saddle soap reference is about right.
What worked best for me was to get the leather ever so slightly rough, then apply just enough oil to make the leather slightly abosrbant. Supple on the surface but still dry and absorbant under the surface. (Seems I'm using the word "slightly" a lot).
What you don't want to do is to apply so much oil that you end up with a slimy rubber tire feel to the leather. If you try to apply Tormek magic honing compound, (MHC), to that surface, when you press the edge tool against it, all that will happen is that the MHC will slide around on the surface rather than being held in place by the leather and fulfilling it's destiny as an actual abrasive to steel.
I think it's a cool feeling when the wheel is cutting correctly. Kind of a smooth, grabby, resistance. I can imagine what's happing at the surface when the tool is pressed against the wonderful Tormek 1-3 micron abrsave MHC adhered to the supple yet slightly clingy leather surface.
Like you I find after prolonged abstinence the strop gets a little stiff. I just run the bevel of a wide chisel across it with reasonable pressure and then reverse it as you would when honing. I find that breaks off lots of tiny particles of caked on detritus and kind of frees the leather underneath. When you then apply the compound, that has all the creamy, oily conditioning agents in it to set the right texture of the wheel....and of course the abrasive.
So no oil for me. I find the stuff in the compound does it just fine. And sure my wheel is black....they all are...... after a few strops that tan colour'd leather look goes very quickly indeed.
Hello, all. New guy here. I received my new T8 about a week ago and have been playing with it. A quick quesiton about the honing wheel surface ... to oil or not to oil?? I oiled. Anyway, can someone give me a brief but as descriptive as possible as to what the surface of the leather honing wheel should feel like when it's ready for use? Mine is pretty rough feeling. Is this normal, or should it feel smooth to the touch? Thanks very much. Rem
Welcome to the forum, Rem.
I don't have a definitive answer. I would suggest you follow the beginning chisel procedure ( the permanently top topic on this section of the forum). If you spend enough repetitive time on the parts of sharpening a chisel, you will learn a lot. Sound, feel, and appearance are important. When you become proficient with coarse and fine grinding, you will soon develop a feeling for the leather surface which helps good polishing. It can be a bit of a Goldilocks experience; you will also learn what does not work well. That's one reason the learning chisel experience is important; no customer is waiting for your results. You can take the time you need and repeat the process.
Be skeptical of anyone with a pristine tan colored leather honing wheel. :)
Do not be shy about asking questions; that's how we all learn.
Ken
Thanks for your response, Ken. Much appreciated. I've read quite a bit of the various "oil" threads. I'm pretty sure I've put enough oil on the leather. So I'll hide and watch for a while. I don't have any chisels so I'm sharpening every knife on the place. There definitely is a technique. And I might even be getting it. We'll see if I can cut it. My wife is a professional seamstress, and keeping her scissors sharp is what got me into this whole sharpening situation. Let's just hope I don't destroy them in the process. Thanks again. R
Rem,
I watched an experienced Tormek demonstrator break in a leather honing wheel using just Tormek Honing Compound. It worked, although the result was a bit "dusty". My point is that while there may be an optimum 14ml of oil, as recommended with the included tube ( by the way, an outstanding idea!), there is some latitude.
At the risk of sounding pushy, your new T8 came with an SE-77 square edge jig. That is the expensive part of the chisel program. If you google "irwin 3/4" blue chip chisels" you will find them for reasonable prices. ($6.81). I highly suggest splurging and getting two. (I have five and could use a couple more.)
DO NOT be tempted to take the quick path with whatever chisels your local hardware store happens to sell. Irwin blue chip chisels are not prime chisels. They are inexpensive, have enough blade length to be usable, and have a properly ground back ground crisply with the sides. Shiny chisels with pretty radiused sides require an extreme amount of work to grind flat, or they will not be sharp. Do it right; use blue chips.
Give yourself plenty of time to get to know your chisels. Once you really master the 3/4" chisels, you can learn to sharpen other edges. Be prepared to pass through a learning curve.
Enjoy the ride!
Ken
I will do that and thanks for the advice re: chisels. However, I live in northern Canada, so the cost of the same chisel to me will likely be about $87.93. But, hey .... I'm used to that nonsense.
I've actually been wanting a basic set of chisels, so if I can get the Old Bear (my lovely wife) to go along with this, I'll getter done. Thanks again for the tip. R
Oops....... I forgot you lived north of the North Pole. You might check with Big Bear Tools. I have had good dealings with them, and they are in Western Canada, which might reduce the cost of shipping via dog sled. :)
Ken
PS A simple set of three or chisels goes a long way. No need for a Compleat set.
If you are north of the north pole, are you actually south of the north pole or in the air above the north pole? Inquiring minds want to know.
Well, the magnetic north pole moves around a bit. So it is possible to live north of it. The geographic north pole is pretty stationary. Fortunately, I'm still a long way from either. I am in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, Canada. But it's still a long way north, and the freight companies still like to stick it to us. But I checked and not so bad. I am just now corresponding with Amazon.ca as some of their info didn't make much sense to me. I'm sure we can chisel something out. Thanks again, and for your concern regarding us remote, isolated dwellers. Winter is settling in soon. Time to put the motorcycle away and tune up the Kubota. But I digress ......... I just turned 70 and I do that a lot. Lucky to find my way home these days. Thanks. RR
In Maine there is a saying that they have "ten months of winter and two months of rough sledding". :)
Ken
Quote from: Rem on September 06, 2016, 08:14:38 PM
I will do that and thanks for the advice re: chisels. However, I live in northern Canada, so the cost of the same chisel to me will likely be about $87.93.
Just a thought, it might be cheaper for someone in the US to buy the item and then ship it to you. Of course it might be hard to figure out what is best because of the potential customs fees and VAT, if any. As I said, just a thought.....................
Quote from: Ken S on September 07, 2016, 12:09:12 AM
In Maine there is a saying that they have "ten months of winter and two months of rough sledding". :)
Ken
Yeah and in Scotland at some island; "if you can't see the island, it is raining. If you can see it, it is going to rain."
Good one, Jeff!
Ken
Quote from: Rem on September 06, 2016, 11:57:43 PM
Well, the magnetic north pole moves around a bit. So it is possible to live north of it. The geographic north pole is pretty stationary. Fortunately, I'm still a long way from either. I am in Whitehorse, Yukon Territory, Canada.
Rem, it is a pleasure to have a member from the Klondike area here! :)
Your comment about the movement of the north magnetic pole made me to think and google. In this year the north magnetic pole left the Canadian Arctic claim and is moving toward Russia with a speed circa 35 mi per year. ;)
Jan
Hey, Jan ... and thanks for the welcome. Holy Moly .... I didn't know it moved that fast. I know it tends to wander about but 35 miles per year .. that's faster than I move. A guy will have to update the declination frequently if he's a compass user. I guess with GPS's being about as common as Starbucks (sorry ... Tim Hortons), it's not really necessary anymore.
Thanks for the info. RR
You are correct, GPS is not dependent on geomagnetic field. :)
The source of the Earth's magnetism is in the core which is believed to be composed of iron (80%) and nickel. Some scientists argue that the solid inner core may be a giant iron crystal ... a fairy-tale performance for a knife grinder. ;)
Jan
Quote from: Rem on September 06, 2016, 02:03:22 AMMine is pretty rough feeling. Is this normal, or should it feel smooth to the touch?
You do not want it smooth to the touch. The danger of having it over-oiled is that it's so smooth that it will not remove the burr on a knife blade. You can easily scrape away the excess oil and eventually get it back in shape. This may not be a problem for an experienced user, but it would frustrate a newbie who's trying to learn to sharpen knives on a Tormek.
You're better off with it rough, even if that's because it's under-oiled. There is oil in the honing compound that will eventually get embedded in the leather. Meanwhile you'll be cutting burrs well. You'll just have to keep adding compound to get a mirror finish on the bevel. Something you'll need to learn how to do anyway.
And that was exactly what I was looking for. Thanks very much. RR ;D
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on September 16, 2016, 04:52:48 AM
Quote from: Rem on September 06, 2016, 02:03:22 AMMine is pretty rough feeling. Is this normal, or should it feel smooth to the touch?
You do not want it smooth to the touch. The danger of having it over-oiled is that it's so smooth that it will not remove the burr on a knife blade. You can easily scrape away the excess oil and eventually get it back in shape. This may not be a problem for an experienced user, but it would frustrate a newbie who's trying to learn to sharpen knives on a Tormek.
You're better off with it rough, even if that's because it's under-oiled. There is oil in the honing compound that will eventually get embedded in the leather. Meanwhile you'll be cutting burrs well. You'll just have to keep adding compound to get a mirror finish on the bevel. Something you'll need to learn how to do anyway.
100%. Too much oil will make the piece you hone to slide without taking (grabbing) the burr off.
How often do you guys change the hone wheel for a new one?
Wolfy,
You ask an excellent question! (I don't know the answer, but would like to know.)
One of the subtle and easily overlooked genuine improvements of the T8 is the included small tube of oil for the leather honing wheel. The tube holds 20ml of white oil. The recommendation is to use 14ml (1 ounce). For decades new Tormek users have had difficulty knowing how much to oil the leather honing wheel. The initial set up oiling problem is finally solved with this very simple, but brilliant, solution. A very workable substitute is to use the little measured cup which comes with most bottles of cough syrup or children's liquid pain medicine.
However, I have not found any mention of long term maintenance or recommended useful life for the leather honing wheel. I have seen a solid leather auxiliary honing wheel still in use, apparently with no problems. Tormek has been in production for over forty year. Over that time, Sweden must have developed a sense of how often, if at all, the leather honing wheel should be replaced and if any leather treatment might benefit it over the years.
We think of grinding wheels as being consumable over the long run. Over a much longer run, the nylon bushings may need replacement. Steve Bottorff post an observation that in his experience bushings needed to be replaced after six grinding wheels. As a very busy knife sharpener, Steve has worn out more than six grinding wheels. Most of us will be doing well to go through more than one or two grinding wheels in a lifetime. I clean and grease my bushings at least once a year. I expect my grandchildren will someday use the same bushings. Perhaps they will use the same leather honing wheel. It would be nice to know.
I hope Stig will post.
Thanks for asking, Wolfy.
Ken
Hi,
The leatherwheel last for a long time, in some cases as long as the machine and other less. It depends of the user and environment but most often when someone buy a new honingwheel it's bacuse someone have used it towards the edge of a tool and cut it.
Best,
Stig
Well stated, Stig. Surely you don't mean to imply that any of our members would use the leather honing wheel with the wheel turning into the edge? :)
Ken
Quote from: Stickan on October 10, 2016, 01:05:06 PM
Hi,
The leather wheel last for a long time, in some cases as long as the machine and other less. It depends of the user and environment but most often when someone buy a new honing wheel it's because someone have used it towards the edge of a tool and cut it.
Best,
Stig
Tack Stickan,
That's the answer I answered too to my clients. Although I wasn't sure it will last for the machine lifetime when used frequently.
Thanks for clarifying it.
WolfY
WolfY,
I think we have two main types of trouble. The first group is minor problems which may occur, and are easily corrected. A slipping drive wheel in need of a little sanding is an example of this. So is a wheel which needs some truing. Anything easily remedied in five minutes at no cost is only a minor nuisance.
The second type of thouble is man made, usually from ignoring basic housekeeping. A rusty older (pre stainless shaft made before 2006) shaft, sometimes rusted to the grinding wheel, is an example of this. Annual inspection, cleaning and regreasing the shaft usually prevents this. A replacement EZYlock stainless steel shaft eliminates the problem.
I suspect most properly used and maintained leather honing wheels last the lifetime of the machine. If a user accidentally cuts into the leather from using the wrong honing direction, replacements are available and not expensive.
Regular light truing will extend the life of the grinding wheel, and make that wheel cut more accurately.
Ken
Hello,
I'm new to this forum, and have been browsing off and on for the last couple of days. Lots of useful information has been archived here - most appreciated. Even if not always ideally organized, the major categories help, and there is always search!
Background: I have had a SuperGrind 2000 for over 10 years, used undoubtedly fairly lightly compared to most users here (diameter of original wheel is now still 240 mm!), but I do intermittently sharpen, mostly kitchen knives, bench chisels, and planer blades. I am reasonably proficient but by no means an expert. Still, it is really enjoyable when a really sharp edge emerges, so even if it takes me relatively long (or even several re-starts) to get there, I persist and enjoy the process. Must admit, it got easier after retirement when I had more time to spend :).
I recently decided to take the plunge and add the capability to do drill bits. I am mostly looking for quality of bit edges, because buying new standard bits would certainly be much cheaper! :). The posts within the Drill Bit Sharpening section were most applicable and very illuminating. I've ordered the desired parts and am looking forward to receiving them soon, including the stainless shaft upgrade, an SB-250 wheel, the DBS-22 jig, and some miscellany.
With that said, my original manual has been my guide since purchase (ver 7.1). Page 128 of that manual says a honing compound application lasts for 5 to 10 tools (optimistic, in my experience); then (quote) "Then re-impregnate the honing wheel with a few drops of oil and apply fresh honing compound. ... Do not let the compound dry, apply more oil if necessary."
Wish I'd discovered this forum earlier. Silly me, following the manual's advice over the years I'd say my strop is no longer impregnated, but closer to saturated! Each time I fired up the SG2000 the wheel would seem dry. I'd add a few drops of oil, then honing compound, then (if there were many knives or chisels to do) more oil, etc.
So my question seems to fit this thread best, namely, what to do about a honing wheel that has been over oiled? Can the leather be rejuvenated if the leather itself is in good shape, with no gouges or rips, or should it just be replaced? One suggestion earlier in this thread included "scraping" the old oil out. perhaps with a cabinet scraper? Or just a strip of wood that has been square cut?). Another suggestion said to use sandpaper (but I think this would end up a gummy mess with the current condition of my leather). Has anyone tried solvent (gas or acetone, perhaps, with adequate precautions for such highly flammable solvents) to clear out excess oil and start over?
Thanks,
Pat
Welcome to the forum Pat!
I think there is a tendency for folks to over-think the problem. That said, I would be hesitant to use strong solvents because the leather is glued to the wheel surface, so I suppose depending on the solvent it could pose a problem.
One poster here ran his through the dishwasher with good results! I would think that just running it under the faucet with some hot water, dish soap and a moderately stiff bristle brush would work fine. I probably would not use a wire brush though. :)
I'm sure others will chime in with their ideas too.
Also, don't be too over concerned if the compound dries on the wheel. It will still work, but it won't stick as well and will create more dust and mess when you use it. As you have found out, better that it is too dry than overly saturated with oil.
Let us know what you do and the results!
Another welcome to the forum, Pat.
If you don't stray too far from Grepper's advice, you will never go wrong.
I reread this topic before starting to write. It brought back happy memories of Mike40, one of my favorite forum friends. Mike no longer posts; he has become deeply involved in his creative woodwork. I miss Mike's thoughts.
The fortunate part of this dilemma is that the worst case scenario solution is just purchasing a replacement leather honing wheel. I don't believe such a radical solution is necessary. It is, however, a good backup. Borrowing an idea from a youtube, I tried using a cleaner called Goop. No miracles, but it did seem to make a difference. I would think gentle cleaning with dishwashing detergent or saddle soap would be worth a try.
The leather honing wheel is hearty. Don't give up.
Keep us posted.
Ken
Quote from: pnwPat on November 17, 2016, 11:56:57 PM
With that said, my original manual has been my guide since purchase (ver 7.1). Page 128 of that manual says a honing compound application lasts for 5 to 10 tools (optimistic, in my experience); then (quote) "Then re-impregnate the honing wheel with a few drops of oil and apply fresh honing compound. ... Do not let the compound dry, apply more oil if necessary."
Now that you mention it, I think my 14-year-old manual says the same thing. I haven't looked in years, but here goes.
Yup, on page 113 of mine, which is the 5th edition.
That must be where I originally got the idea to keep adding oil. Jeff Farris ran this forum for many years, and his advice was to apply oil only once, at the beginning of its life. By the time I heard that, I was in trouble as mine was way over-oiled.
Now, the 2013 version (edition 9.9) says the same thing on page 44.
I understand that the new T-8 comes with a tube of oil, used to prepare the honing wheel for its first use.
QuoteWish I'd discovered this forum earlier. Silly me, following the manual's advice over the years I'd say my strop is no longer impregnated, but closer to saturated! Each time I fired up the SG2000 the wheel would seem dry. I'd add a few drops of oil, then honing compound, then (if there were many knives or chisels to do) more oil, etc.
I made the same mistake. I now know better. There is plenty of oil in the compound, so never add more oil. Ever!
I used a putty knife to scrape the crud off the surface of the leather honing wheel. I continued to use it, adding compound when needed, and scraping off crud after honing. After a few cycles of this the oil gets worked out.
As has already been mentioned, one chap ran his through the automatic dishwasher with success. I've never found it necessary to do that!
Adding to much oil is easily done as the leather soaks it up easy. Much better to under oil then to over oil. Tormek recommend 3/4 of the enclosed tube for the T-8 and I would use 1/3. Always easy to add lated if you feel you need.
Excellent comment, WolfY.
Before commenting, I reread through this topic. (Again, I had forgotten already doing the same thing recently.) A quiet reading through this topic is time well spent.
I have broken in five Tormek leather honing wheels, including one using no oil. The no oil one was at the recommendation of a Tormek demonstrator. The theory was that one of the components of Tormek Honing Compound is the same oil used separately on the leather honing wheel, therefore, initial oiling should not be necessary. This actually works. The drawback is the black flakes the leather wheel sheds. Quite messy! Tormek must have flirted with this theory briefly. Some of the older jig videos on the website showed flakes. Hopefully these videos are long replaced.
The problem with overoiling is that it must be done initially by a new user, before the user has developed a feel for the Tormek. This is part of "the learning curve" discussed elsewhere on this forum. We really need an in depth set up and initial use video which thoroughly demonstrates these basic operations.
After breaking in several leather honing wheels, it is no longer a problem. In fact, I have not used the little tube which came with the T8. It is a great idea, but I still have more than enough from the pint of mineral oil I purchased. Unfortunately, most of us do not have the luxury of practicing with several leather honing wheels.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on November 22, 2016, 12:43:31 PM
In fact, I have not used the little tube which came with the T8. It is a great idea, but I still have more than enough from the pint of mineral oil I purchased.
Ken, is the oil in that tube a light machine oil, or is it thicker, like mineral oil?
By the way, I apply mineral oil to wooden knife handles.
Herman-dude ..... I'm pretty sure I REMember the tube stating "pharmaceutical grade mineral oil" .......... but due to my advancing years, I can't be sure. So this wasn't much good to you. Sorry. R
I use Ballistol for the leather wheel.
Ballistol is an venerable product made from Medicinal liquid paraffin only. In the past it was "Kaiser Bills Weapon Oil", today it is mostly used for tools to prevent rust. It is not the cheapest one but very dependable.
The name comes from "ballistic oil". It should not be used on brass or copper.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistol (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballistol) - http://www.ballistol.de/1-1-Startpage.html (http://www.ballistol.de/1-1-Startpage.html)
If one got a Herpes blister on a lip this oil will stop it within a short time (But they are not allowed to recommend it for medical use.)
Rolf
Herman,
The Tormek oil is thicker, like mineral oil. Actually, it is high grade mineral oil. I have heard it is even safe to eat, although I would not recommend that.
The Tormek tube is 20ml (approximately half an ounce). I did not measure how much I used, although there is still oil in the tube. I put small amounts on the leather honing wheel, hand turning it and working the oil around until I had the leather the color of light walnut. Adding some Tormek Honing Compound and polishing a small telephone man's blue knife turned the leather wheel almost as black as my oldest leather wheel, with the same feel.
Work slowly, using only enough oil to just darken the leather wheel. As WolfY wrote, you can always add more.
I used 3in1 light oil on one of my leather honing wheels. It worked fine. I think I prefer mineral oil on wooden knife handles and 3in1 on tools to prevent rust.
Ken
I can now contribute some additional info to the "perpetual" honing/stropping wheel maintenance question.
Per my earlier post, the leather on my honing wheel had acquired an excess of paste and oil that made honing difficult – to the point where the grit in the Tormek compound was probably mostly rolling and doing little cutting.
With the goal of correcting this (without buying a new honing wheel if possible), I started by scraping off the surface gunk with the wheel mounted and operating. I initially used as a scraper one of those semi-rectangular flexible plastic trowels typically used to apply Bondo. This got a fair bit off but left something to be desired. The edge of the plastic quickly wore down, and with any pressure the bead or ribbon of oil/gunk that was forming on the edge would get rolled back off and either re-absorbed in the leather or re-distributed on the wheel. I switched to a steel cabinet scraper (dull, with no "hook") which did much better, but I still had to frequently wipe it off to make progress. It worked best to hold the scraper almost perpendicular, tilting it about 5 or 10 degrees in the plane of the wheel (think of that tilt as a negative rake angle). This kept the scraper from "grabbing" or gouging the rotating leather while also minimizing the risk of lifting the leather at the lapped splice where the strip is joined. It also helped to slant the scraper maybe 20 degrees left or right to sort of funnel the remaining oil to and off the side of the wheel. Light pressure is not effective. I was able to use moderate pressure with reasonable success and no damage occurring, but decided not to try heavy pressure.
Overall I removed maybe an ounce (~30 ml) of oil/sludge by scraping. I could have stopped there and had a functioning hone, and this is what I would recommend for others with the same problem. But I didn't stop, and that's why I can offer a bit more info here for the benefit of anyone interested.
Basically I decided to see if I could get all (or as much as possible) of the oil out of the leather, and then start over with something closer to the factory recommended amount of "pre-charge" oil (not sure exactly what the ideal is, but the amount of oil currently provided with newly purchased machines is reportedly about 3/4 oz, so I planned to start small and creep up with that as a limit).
For "de-oiling", earlier posts on this forum had various suggestions in addition to scraping, including: burying the wheel in sawdust; wrapping the leather in an old T-shirt or rag; using solvent; washing with soap and a brush; or running it through a dishwasher.
I was uncertain about using sawdust (could be difficult to clean afterwards) or solvent, so ruled them out.
I first tried wrapping a rag around the wheel, dismounted. This may have worked better with a band clamp, and regular changes of the rag, and giving it more time, but I just did a simple wrap and rolled the wheel about on my workbench with downward pressure. The rag soaked up some oil, evidenced by stains, but not very much. I moved on to washing with soap and a brush, under water. This got the surface film off, but I did not think it was really effective in getting out the deeper oil. Finally, since at least one brave worker previously reported success with a dishwasher, I decided to try that. I also included the larger ring from the LA-120 Profile Hone (which was saturated with oil too) in that dishwasher cycle.
Before you ask, yes, I did have to get approval from the distaff side, but be aware our dishwasher is 12 years old. It still functions fine, but from her perspective any problem resulting from this experiment would mean replacing the dishwasher with a new one, a not altogether disagreeable prospect for her. I was willing to risk it, but your mileage may vary :)!
I can't say the dishwasher was a terrific success, but it was not a total failure either. What happened is that:
• The dishwasher itself survived fine, no residual black sludge or oil, so dodged that bullet!
For the standard honing wheel:
• The oil was pretty much gone. The leather was still black, but whatever residual oil remained was small enough that there was no suppleness left. Restating this another way, after drying for a full day the washed leather became nearly rock hard!
• The glue bond holding the leather on the wheel survived - no leather appeared lifted from the wheel (although see below)
• The dried leather ended up with raised humps at the edges all around the circumference – i.e. laying a straightedge across the width of the wheel, the center appeared dished, all the way around, by maybe 1 mm. The width of these "humps" was maybe 3 to 4 mm. Not sure why this effect appeared, perhaps the glue was starting to let go at the edges. Perhaps it was due to my initial scraping technique. Regardless, only limited additional work was needed to fix these bumps.
• The overall dried leather surface was very rough – similar to the surface roughness of perhaps 40 grit sandpaper, but of course without sandpaper's durability.
For the profile honing ring:
• Failed! Unfortunately the leather forming this ring was laminated from two layers glued together. The glue did not survive the dishwasher – the ring fully separated. Re-gluing the warped pieces together again after drying did not look promising, so I ended up buying a replacement set of rings (part LA-122). Lesson learned. Brief water exposure is probably OK but long exposure of LA-120 profile hones to water is a bad idea!
Post dishwasher (once the standard honing wheel was fully dry):
I used sandpaper (starting at 60 and progressing to 120 grit) to smooth off the roughness and flatten the worst of the raised edges. Halfway through it occurred to me this was probably a bad idea – bits of grit from the sandpaper could break off and embed in the leather, compromising later fine honing. So I switched to a cabinet scraper with a sharpened hook to finish the job. This scraper worked surprisingly well to flatten the hardened leather without digging in or removing excess material. I lost perhaps 10 to 15 thousandths of the leather thickness, but there is still plenty left. I suspect I also removed any sandpaper grit that may have been left, as later on I didn't see any scratches that would indicate otherwise.
After scraping I had a flat and relatively smooth, but still very hard leather hone. I started adding clean mineral oil to "pre-charge" and also to soften the leather, but no more than absolutely necessary. The hard black surface did not absorb oil quickly so I applied it in small increments, 1 to 2 ml at a time, spreading that evenly around the wheel with a finger, rubbing it in a bit then just letting it sit for an hour or so. I repeated this just until I could leave a fingernail impression without using a lot of pressure. In total I applied about 10 ml (1/3 oz) of oil before that point was reached. This may or may not be a useful comparative benchmark against a new wheel, due to the different conditions of each, but at least the amount I needed for my wheel is documented here. After the final application of oil was fully absorbed I applied a thin uniform coat of honing compound. This was worked in by polishing the back of a 1" wide bench chisel (any flat surface would do) using very hard pressure. This also served to massage and soften the leather a bit.
No doubt the leather will soften up further with both regular working and applications of compound, but for now my "processed" hone is still much harder/stiffer than the original leather. I think it behaves more like a relatively soft wood hone, rather than leather, at the moment. This may be advantageous in some ways – but I need to do more observing and sharpening of various tools before deciding. Anyway, for me it will always be a subjective comparison since I don't have measurement tools to objectively quantify the precise sharpness achieved after honing, nor at this point do I have a "standard" hone to compare against my "processed" hone. But FWIW I think "as is" it can produce equivalently sharp edges in maybe half to a third of the time I had been spending per edge back when the hone was over oiled, so I don't see any immediate need to replace this hone.
Bottom line, would I recommend washing an over-oiled hone/stropping wheel? Not at all, at least not unless something down the road convinces me that a harder hone is really superior, but even then I can't see a big consumer rush on this. If beneficial Tormek should just develop and market a hard honing wheel, maybe as an option, to supplement their standard offering.
What I would recommend without hesitation is that someone with excess oil in their otherwise fine Tormek honing wheel should try removing the excess using only a stiff scraper. Once the majority of the oil has been removed, continue normal honing, add no additional oil, just add compound when needed.
Of course, if feeling flush a quick (or lazy) solution is to buy a replacement honing wheel – but (at least for hobbyists) where's the fun in that :)?
Pat
Hello everybody. I just got a T8 used with an extra Japanese wheel almost new. Both wheels needed truing which I did but I noticed that the leather wheel was black and sticky from the previous owner. Research brought me to this thread which contains a healthy amount of information. Reading the last input from pnwPat I decided to try an easier way and it seems it works a treat so here it is.
I used brake and clutch cleaner which is a highly volatile liquid in a spraying canister that evaporates quite quickly and dissolves oils brilliantly. So I sprayed the wheel as it revolved and scraped the black dirt and oil with a stiff painting knife. A few cycles this way left my wheel almost in its original color within a matter of a few minutes with no stiffness at all.
I hope this will be helpful. <
Somewhere else I posted that my guidance booklet suggested that I utilize 14mL of light oil on another calfskin wheel (T7). I don't remember a suggestion in the booklet for extra oil to restore the calfskin. My calfskin wheel gets rare use along these lines, probably, the oil dissipates and abandons a concentrate of glue, spent crushing particles, and steel burr. It is dark. Anyway, how would I revive (restore) the calfskin?
I tried the brake cleaner method from Giokosmik's post, to get the leather clean again. (Thanks for the great tip, btw.)
It really worked like a charm. Some coarse sandpaper restored a good surface.
Like Hatchcanyon, I also use Ballistol on the leather wheel, which is a very light oil and there is no issue with toxic ingredients, despite its intense scent.
Being dark is not a problem with leather wheels or strops, but a greasy layer from oil and depositions shows that too much oil has been used.
Now I started with less oil than the very first time.