The tormek I got was an older one without the threaded support so I was wondering if it were possible to thread the arm to dial in an angle.
Yes, there has been more than one on the forum who has done so. Either a 12 mm or a 1/2 die may be used. I used a 1/2 x 20 die. See the following thread:
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=1541.0
Welcome to the forum!
Thanks for the reply!
How well does yours work for you?
Very well. I see no need to replace it with the factory version, however a second USB would be nice to have at times. :) Make sure you are very careful to get the die started squarely as that is a long distance to thread. As Herman mentioned, I am sure the 1/2 inch will thread more easily than the 12 mm. The 1/2 inch is a little larger, but provides plenty of thread depth.
Mine works great. If you're at all familiar with the process of using a die to cut threads into a shaft, you know that youhave to keep backing off as you rotate. That is, you turn and cut a little bit, then you have to back off to clear away the filings. So you then cu some more, back off, on and on. Well, this is a rather long shaft to thread, and I got quickly got sick of all that back and forth.
I ended up just cutting through, which worked ok. The threads look a but buggered up but they work fine.
I used a 12 mm die because the shaft is 12 mm. I think it might be a lot easier to do this job with a 1/2 inch die (12.7 mm) as there'd be more room for the filings to fall out as you do the cutting of the threads.
If your machine is that old, afx, you've no doubt got the original tool steel main shaft. You may want to take it apart and lubricate the bearings, but before you do that read about my adventures with my rusty main shaft here.
http://forum.tormek.com/index.php?topic=929.0
Be careful about leaving the water tray attached when it's full of water. You don't want to leave the grindstone soaking in the water as it will wick up and cause the main shaft to rust.
Good points, Herman. Once I got to going very far in, I never backed all the way off. I did back up a little ways to break the chips. I kept the air hose handy to blow away the broken loose chips. Made sure to use plenty of oil as well!
I've been worried about the rusting main shaft even before I bought it. I've thought about removing the shaft and having a replica machined for me out of stainless but I'll cross that road later.
I tell ya, I tried to get a 1/2" die on this thing and it wouldn't catch on for the life of me. I kept checking it was really a 1/2" die and it's clearly marked so. Hell I took a caliper to the USB to make sure it wasn't somehow goofed up and it read .463" like it should.
I wonder if its just a crappy die.
Quote from: afx on March 13, 2013, 02:40:38 AM
I've been worried about the rusting main shaft even before I bought it. I've thought about removing the shaft and having a replica machined for me out of stainless but I'll cross that road later.
Don't do that! The MSK-250 is stainless and it's got the EzyLock feature: http://tormek.com/international/en/spare-parts/shafts/msk-250-stainless-steel-shaft/
QuoteI tell ya, I tried to get a 1/2" die on this thing and it wouldn't catch on for the life of me. I kept checking it was really a 1/2" die and it's clearly marked so. Hell I took a caliper to the USB to make sure it wasn't somehow goofed up and it read .463" like it should.
12 mm is 0.472", although that's only about 0.25 mm off so that shouldn't matter. I don't have a lot of experience with this, but you may have to buy the 12 mm die and matching nut like I did.
Kirk,
This is dumb question on my end as I'm sure you know the difference. Where you trying to start the proper side of the die? One side has the teeth relieved for starting. They contact the rod first. Don't get mad at me, I'm just trying to analyze why it won't start.
Is it a fairly good quality die that is sharp? It doesn't have to be the absolute highest quality, but I don't trust Harbor Freight or comparable quality very far. ??? I get my replacement taps and dies from my local lumber, hardware stores. They are kind of a medium quality material. If the die has seen a lot of use, it may be beyond its useful life expectancy.
A fair amount of down pressure on the die stock has to be exerted (making sure it is kept square) to start a die.
This is all from not knowing your level of proficiency with this type of work.
Quote from: kb0rvo on March 13, 2013, 03:53:57 AM
Kirk,
This is dumb question on my end as I'm sure you know the difference. Where you trying to start the proper side of the die? One side has the teeth relieved for starting. They contact the rod first. Don't get mad at me, I'm just trying to analyze why it won't start.
Is it a fairly good quality die that is sharp? It doesn't have to be the absolute highest quality, but I don't trust Harbor Freight or comparable quality very far. ??? I get my replacement taps and dies from my local lumber, hardware stores. They are kind of a medium quality material. If the die has seen a lot of use, it may be beyond its useful life expectancy.
A fair amount of down pressure on the die stock has to be exerted (making sure it is kept square) to start a die.
This is all from not knowing your level of proficiency with this type of work.
Oh no, that isn't a dumb question at all. I did make sure to use the tapered side of the die however it IS a cheap harbor freight set that I've used primarily for tapping and to run a damaged thread on a rod. Ill look into grabbing a 12mm and 1/2" die today.
Oh and I think I just misremembered the .463 number, I had measured it a few days prior.
Kirk,
That sounds great. I am pretty sure getting a better quality new die will solve your problem. My father-in-law picked up a 110 piece set years ago from a new tool auction (import items). That was before we had ever heard of Harbor Freight. That was and is a good set, but I imagine they were made in Japan. I think they sell for around $200 now.
Those are probably all carbon steel, not high speed (HSS) steel, right?
As far as I know Herman they are, but a good quality of it. High speed would be significantly higher in price, I'm sure. I noticed Tublcain only mentioned carbon steel as being cheap and used HSS.
Well, he said they were better. I really like the little holder he made with the drill bits and taps arranged by size.
Yes, that is a great idea to have the tap size bit and the clearance bit right there with the tap. No more chart searching, etc.
I went out and bought a new die last night and it worked MUCH better than the cheap one although it is still hard as HELL to turn . The threads appear to be cutting quite nicely. I only got about half way down before I lost my ability to turn it since I dont have a hex wrench. I was using a long 1" socket to turn it.
It's oddly satisfying cutting threads.
Kirk,
Are you backing up a little to break the chips? If so, use compressed air to blow them out. If not, you need to. Make sure you are using metal cutting fluid or oil regularly. I use oil because that's what I have around.
Since you are using a socket to turn the die, I take it that you have a die that is hexagonal on the outside.
Your new set should have a die stock that is hexagonal as well. Use it, turn it as far as you can then slip the die stock off the die. Reposition the die stock so that when you put it back on the die, you can again turn it a ways. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat-------------------------------. I think you get the picture! :D
That is how I did mine. Is it slow? Yes. :)
Don't forget to keep breaking the chips and blowing them out.
Quote from: kb0rvo on March 14, 2013, 11:02:27 PM
Use it, turn it as far as you can then slip the die stock off the die. Reposition the die stock so that when you put it back on the die, you can again turn it a ways. Repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat-------------------------------. I think you get the picture! :D
Oh, yeah, because the other leg of the US is in the way. I'd forgotten about that!
Yeah I've been backing up about every quarter to half turn as well as using machine oil. Its probably still not the sharpest die :)
You have a lot more patience than me. I gave up on backing off, it was taking too long!
Well I just finished cutting the threads and I think it turned out pretty damn good. Instead of getting a regular nut I bought a 12mm 1.5 car lug nut which has a washer type lip in the middle, I just ground a few markings in it to give it some grip and just like that, I'm good to go.
Thanks for the suggestions guys!
Quote from: afx on March 16, 2013, 06:48:56 AM
Instead of getting a regular nut I bought a 12mm 1.5 car lug nut which has a washer type lip in the middle, I just ground a few markings in it to give it some grip and just like that, I'm good to go.
Great idea, I'm going to have to give that a try. Was that available at the auto parts store? Do you know the thread pitch?
Great Kirk! ;D
I bought the nut at Autozone for $1.59
It was a 12mmx1.5 which is what I threaded the rod with, it screws in and out perfectly. I think Im going to grind a flat spot for the screw that secures it then re run the die to make sure the threads are clean.
Quote from: afx on March 16, 2013, 06:07:06 PM
I bought the nut at Autozone for $1.59
It was a 12mmx1.5 which is what I threaded the rod with, it screws in and out perfectly.
I just looked at the die I used and it's stamped 12 mm 1.5 so I guess the lug nut will work on mine, too. Thanks for that tip.
QuoteI think Im going to grind a flat spot for the screw that secures it then re run the die to make sure the threads are clean.
The Tormek has what they call a "Square cut Acme style thread" which I think means they have the thread flattened all the way around, but as you say, you really only need them flattened on one side. Well, two sides if you use the universal support in the horizontal position.
My homemade micro adjuster is too wide to work with the US in the horizontal position. It's no big deal as I rarely use it that position anyway.
That was the reason I didn't have the adjuster nut with the washer welded on it on my USB. A regular nut will clear the frame when the USB is in the horizontal position. I have not flattened the threads yet as the locking screw doesn't seem to be damaging the threads. A person doesn't have to tighten it very tight for it to hold. If the adjuster ever gets to where it is not turning easily, I can do it then. I think they call that the "If it's not broken, don't fix it" attitude. ;D
I hear ya, Elden, if it ain't broke don't fix it ...
But, I did file mine flat today and ran the die over it a few times with oil.
The adjuster nut spins much more freely now.
It seems to me the only area you would need to file flat would be where the locking nut meets the threads (do it for both USB configurations. I would keep the rest of the area full dimension.
Ken
Right, that's what we're doing Ken. Well, I only flattened one side because I rarely use it in the horizontal configuration.
Quote from: afx on March 12, 2013, 10:18:28 PM
The tormek I got was an older one without the threaded support so I was wondering if it were possible to thread the arm to dial in an angle.
AFX,
I had an older USB also. I cut off the side where the new USB is threaded, & welded on a threaded rod. That works great !
Kind regards,
Rich
Good idea, Rich, for anyone skilled in welding. For non welders like, unless you know a welder, I think the most cost effective option is just purchasing a new US-105.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on January 25, 2018, 05:44:48 PM
Good idea, Rich, for anyone skilled in welding. For non welders like, unless you know a welder, I think the most cost effective option is just purchasing a new US-105.
Good idea, Ken. But if I had done that I'd still have the old one about, with its unthreaded shaft. The Yankee in me would just have to do something about that. ;)
Herman,
The ingenious Yankee in you can find many uses for an unthreaded support bar. It works great with the famous Herman platform or the Torlock platform. With the TTS-100 for turning tools, the Distance between the support bar and grinding wheel is set by the holes in the jig. No microadjust needed. I never use the microadjust with chisels and planes. I adapt the TTS-100. The kenjig works fine without a threaded support bar. With care, Wootz' computer applet should also work, slthough the micro adjust simplifies things with the program. The list is only limited by one's imagination.
As a fellow Yankee, I would not exaggerate.
Ken
But the Southener says make do with what you have and thread it!
Elden,
I certainly meant no slight toward our gentlemen from the South. "Yankee" is often paired with such works as ingenuity, thrift, and cussedness, although the last word would certainly not apply to Herman or me. :)
Ken
Quote from: Elden on January 30, 2018, 05:52:52 AM
But the Southener says make do with what you have and thread it!
Elden,
I've always loved the line from Ray Wylie Hubbard's song titled, "Henhouse" :
QuoteHe's been in this world for a pretty long time
says 2 nickels ain't worth a dime
he's slow as molasses, he's wrinkled and mean
he don't like Yankees or lima beans
Rich
Ken, no offense taken. I might should have said "Popular Mechanics mentality." After spending some time reading about T. A. Edison, I realize a greater respect for those who blazed the trail.
Rich, interesting quote. I don't remember hearing that one.
Quote from: Ken S on January 30, 2018, 04:53:59 AM
The ingenious Yankee in you can find many uses for an unthreaded support bar. It works great with the famous Herman platform or the Torlock platform. With the TTS-100 for turning tools, the Distance between the support bar and grinding wheel is set by the holes in the jig. No microadjust needed. I never use the microadjust with chisels and planes. I adapt the TTS-100. The kenjig works fine without a threaded support bar. With care, Wootz' computer applet should also work, slthough the micro adjust simplifies things with the program. The list is only limited by one's imagination.
Very well thought out, Ken. But no go. Because a threaded bar will also do all those things. ;)
Point well taken, Herman.
Out of curiosity, I wanted to find out when the microadjust threaded support bar was first introduced. This month marks fifteen years. It says something about the longevity of the Tormek that we have so many posts about modifying a part which is older than fifteen years. How many computer forums are still getting posts about Windows 98? To its credit, the present model US-105 universal support bar is plug and play with last millenium Tormeks! I call that customer support.
Incidentally, go to the Tormek website>about Tormek>news archive to find five pages describing when new products were introduced. It's fascinating. When the new website was being developed, a member of this forum contacted Karin, the person in charge of the project, with the request of expanding the news archive. I think the present news archive, much expanded, fulfilled that request very well. Tormek is customer responsive. Thank you, Karin. Well done.
Ken
Ken,
Please never compare the Tormek to Windows. One is satanic, & the other a great all-around tool sharpening platform. ;)
Rich
Brother Bill withdraws support for his older products!
By the way, I find the micro adjust feature essential when using my platform jig. I can hold the Angle Master in one hand and rotate the micro adjust with other. Makes it quick, easier, and painless to lock in the correct angle. Once locked in I can sharpen any number of knives at that bevel angle without ever making another adjustment to anything.
Herman,
I have often stated that I consider the DBS-22 drill bit jig to be Tormek's most advanced jig. I consider the SVD-186 gouge jig and the TTS-100 to be Tormek's most advanced jig and setting tool combination.
I would place the microadjust with your platform jig a close second. I have often mentioned my belief that every serious Tormeker should make one of your platform jigs (using the scissors jig platform as a base, as you do).
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on February 02, 2018, 11:04:03 PM
I would place the microadjust with your platform jig a close second. I have often mentioned my belief that every serious Tormeker should make one of your platform jigs (using the scissors jig platform as a base, as you do).
Thanks. Why won't Tormek make one?
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on February 03, 2018, 08:40:40 PM
Quote from: Ken S on February 02, 2018, 11:04:03 PM
I would place the microadjust with your platform jig a close second. I have often mentioned my belief that every serious Tormeker should make one of your platform jigs (using the scissors jig platform as a base, as you do).
Thanks. Why won't Tormek make one?
They did... they just made it tiny, folded it in half, and put it on the T-2. ;)
Herman, unfortunately the reason that Tormek will probably never make one is that you have already made one. Tormek, like any other business, wants patents to protect its investment. This is ironic, because most of us, you and me included, just want to share our ideas with other Tormekers. The act of posting to share with the forum becomes the death nell for Tormek to make them.
Too bad. I happen to think your your platform jig is more versatile than the big Torlock platform or the small blade tool.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on February 03, 2018, 11:10:22 PM
Herman, unfortunately the reason that Tormek will probably never make one is that you have already made one. Tormek, like any other business, wants patents to protect its investment. This is ironic, because most of us, you and me included, just want to share our ideas with other Tormekers. The act of posting to share with the forum becomes the death nell for Tormek to make them.
Too bad. I happen to think your your platform jig is more versatile than the big Torlock platform or the small blade tool.
Ken
I'm not sure the basics of the platform jig that Herman made would even be "patentable", would it? For example, the patent on the SVD-110 (http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=5,816,735.PN.&OS=PN/5,816,735&RS=PN/5,816,735), covers the way it locks to the USB. I would think it would take something unique like that to be "patentable"... not the basic idea of the "platform jig" that Herman's posted. (Don't know, just curious). ;)
I agree, CB. I think Herman's platform is also outside of the Tormek philosophy of jig held tools.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on February 02, 2018, 11:04:03 PM
I have often stated that I consider the DBS-22 drill bit jig to be Tormek's most advanced jig. I consider the SVD-186 gouge jig and the TTS-100 to be Tormek's most advanced jig and setting tool combination.
I agree whole-heartedly with Ken !
Quote from: Ken S on February 04, 2018, 01:00:35 AM
I agree, CB. I think Herman's platform is also outside of the Tormek philosophy of jig held tools.
Ken
I redraw your attention to the aforementioned SVD-110. ::)
I assume any Tormek would utilize their patented Torlock.
Ken
Quote from: cbwx34 on February 04, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
I redraw your attention to the aforementioned SVD-110. ::)
The Tormek philosophy, and this is addressed somewhere in the manual, is that when the grinding angle is steep one can adequately apply enough force to the grindstone. But when the angle is shallow this becomes a problem. Thus a platform set at a shallow angle does not allow the operator an opportunity to apply most of the force to the grindstone, but instead to the platform itself. On the other hand the SVD-110 only allows for steep grinding angles, so the operator can apply most of the force against the grindstone rather than the platform.
The flaw in this logic is that the platform can be used as a guide to keep the grinding angle correct, even at shallow angles, and one can still apply most of the force to the grindstone. In other words, the Tormek philosophy makes sense, it's just that I don't agree it's valid.
Quote from: Herman Trivilino on February 05, 2018, 03:55:41 AM
Quote from: cbwx34 on February 04, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
I redraw your attention to the aforementioned SVD-110. ::)
The Tormek philosophy, and this is addressed somewhere in the manual, is that when the grinding angle is steep one can adequately apply enough force to the grindstone. But when the angle is shallow this becomes a problem. Thus a platform set at a shallow angle does not allow the operator an opportunity to apply most of the force to the grindstone, but instead to the platform itself. On the other hand the SVD-110 only allows for steep grinding angles, so the operator can apply most of the force against the grindstone rather than the platform.
The flaw in this logic is that the platform can be used as a guide to keep the grinding angle correct, even at shallow angles, and one can still apply most of the force to the grindstone. In other words, the Tormek philosophy makes sense, it's just that I don't agree it's valid.
Ah. I see. (The one line response didn't provide enough context, I misinterpreted it, I guess). ;)
I agree with your point... the platform is just a guide. It's basically "freehand" sharpening, with something there to control the angle... the way I see it.
BTW, I found it in the manual (p.18). A lot of it seems to have to do with the amount of "pressure" needed for HSS-steel. I'm not sure knives would fit the category?
Thanks!
Quote from: cbwx34 on February 04, 2018, 03:20:20 PM
Quote from: Ken S on February 04, 2018, 01:00:35 AM
I agree, CB. I think Herman's platform is also outside of the Tormek philosophy of jig held tools.
Ken
I redraw your attention to the aforementioned SVD-110. ::)
CB,
I see your point, however, I should add that I don't really believe that the SVD-110, like Herman's platform, really falls in the Tormek philosophy. With almost every other tool, the tool is held in the jig. The jigs are either secured in the universal support bar, like the square edge jigs, axe jig, or drill bit jig, or they rest against the usb, like the knife jigs. I believe the SVD-110 is a holdover from dry grinders. Using it requires almost as much skill as freehand sharpening. The SVD-110, like many of the Tormek jigs, really works best with larger tools. Even the small blade holder works best with carving knives with substantial wooden handles.
The more I think about it, the more I do not understand why Tormek does not make a small platform jig. They hold the patent for the Torlock. The concept of a table with a grinder goes back many decades and may be considered universal. By matching the width of the platform with the width of the grinding wheel, it is easy to sharpen the full length of both bevels without needing to reposition the platform. The small platform can easily extend closer to the grinding wheel. It can be used with many tools, both large and small. I believe it would sell in greater numbers than the larger platform, although a well equipped sharpener should have both.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on February 05, 2018, 06:09:55 AM
I see your point, however, I should add that I don't really believe that the SVD-110, like Herman's platform, really falls in the Tormek philosophy. With almost every other tool, the tool is held in the jig. The jigs are either secured in the universal support bar, like the square edge jigs, axe jig, or drill bit jig, or they rest against the usb, like the knife jigs. I believe the SVD-110 is a holdover from dry grinders. Using it requires almost as much skill as freehand sharpening. The SVD-110, like many of the Tormek jigs, really works best with larger tools. Even the small blade holder works best with carving knives with substantial wooden handles.
The more I think about it, the more I do not understand why Tormek does not make a small platform jig. They hold the patent for the Torlock. The concept of a table with a grinder goes back many decades and may be considered universal. By matching the width of the platform with the width of the grinding wheel, it is easy to sharpen the full length of both bevels without needing to reposition the platform. The small platform can easily extend closer to the grinding wheel. It can be used with many tools, both large and small. I believe it would sell in greater numbers than the larger platform, although a well equipped sharpener should have both.
Ken
Thanks for the additional detail... I understand it better now.
CB,
I have been aware that "Sweden" reads our posts. I am very pleased about this friendly spying, and try to use it to pass along hints. In this case, I have long believed that both the Big (Tormek) platform and the Smaller (Herman) each have a lot of potential uses. Interchangeable diving boards could allow easy sharpening of things like metal lathe tool bits.
I hope Tormek will someday make small platform jigs. I would call them the SVD-40 and SVD-50, to fit the 200x40 mm and 250x50 mm Tormek wheels. They would be very versatile, providing a stable platform for small knives, very narrow chisels, carving tools which do not happen to fit the jigs well, etc. (Etc. is limited only by imagination.) They could also be used to transport the Tormek secured in the main shaft to keep the shaft from sliding if one misplaced the very losable piece of plastic pipe.
Tormek already owns the patent for the Torlock. (well done, engineering staff!) I would think a chunk of the cad/cam program could be copy/pasted or easily modified.
Are you monitoring this, Sweden? :)
Ken
In defense of the Big Platform, it serves a different function than the Smaller Platform. It is designed for sharpening woodturning scrapers, which it does very well. As I have often said, a well equipped Tormek sharpener should have both sizes.