I am puzzled about grading the grinding wheel for sharpening knives. Two experiened Tormek users I respect seem to disagree. My original source, Jeff Farris, recommends generally using the grinding wheel graded fine for most knife sharpening. This eliminates the hassle of regrading the wheel.
On the other hand, Steve Bottorff recommends letting the grinding wheel return to its natural state, which is 220, or the coarse grading.
This difference may be due to the working conditions involved. Jeff worked under more controlled conditions. He generally sharpened the knives he brought with him or pocket knives offered by the onlookers. Steve worked a high volume farmers' market. Steve required more speed to be profitable. Like most of us, an extra minute sharpening a knife is not a big deal to me. Therefore, I don't really understand all the flap ( for those of us like me) about the time involved in regrading the grinding wheel. If sharpening a knife requires a couple extra passes with the wheel graded fine, that is still much quicker than regrading.
I welcome comments.
Ken
You're thinking way too hard Ken! ;D
Just take it for what is. 220 grit will remove metal quickly and leave a toothy edge and like you said, you don't need to keep dressing the wheel. Depending on what you are looking to achieve, that may be perfect and works great if the knife is pretty dull to begin with. Great for slicing tomatoes and general kitchen work. Sometimes I rather prefer that.
Generally folks at a farmer's market won't be all that fussy. Almost anything that is pretty darn sharp will make folks happy and will probably be way sharper than the knives were when they brought them in. Really, how many people have considered the benefits/detractions of a toothy vs. smooth edge?
1000 grit will of course not remove metal as quickly, and will leave a less toothy edge. Takes a little longer if the knife is really dull. Some folks want a less toothy edge. Sashimi slicing for instance.
So, of course, it depends on what you want.
I'm more than totally sure you fully understand this already. I'm preaching to the choir, but you asked so I babbled on... :)
Good points, Grepper. You are correct; I do feel I have a good understanding of sharpening. I also have Herman's "sharpening hobby", a fascinated curiosity which wants to understand more deeply.
I don't believe either method I cited is either right or wrong. Both methods have evolved as useful by people I respect. Each works in a different environment. I believe a sharpener should be versed and fluent with many techniques and be able to change gears as needed. I am inquisitive, not critical.
Ken
I was thinking along the same lines as Grepper. At a farmers market, your going to get a LOT of people with really dull/abused knives once you know they are there.
At Jeff's old shop, first, a lot of the items brought in, will need more of a touch up, then a total sharpen. Secondly, you don't have the mass of people, as they are bringing in something, possibly to learn how to and if the Tormek is for them, or they may be a friend of Jeff's or someone who works there.
In the first, there are a lot of them who have never attempted sharpening. In the later, most of them will have been trying to sharpen and are looking to increase speed, accuracy, repeatability, etc. over hand sharpening.
Just my thoughts, worth the price you paid.
Thanks for your thoughts, SADW.
I never had the pleasure of visiting Jeff's shop. I wish I had been able to do that.
Ken
Does he no longer have a shop? Isn't he the sharptools guy?
Brett,
Jeff sold Sharptoolsusa to Advanced Machinery lock, stock, and barrel several years ago. Advanced Machinery has been wise enough to maintain Jeff's presence on the sharptoolsusa.com website. I have found Jeff's blog on the website some of the most useful written Tormek information. The videos Jeff did for Sharptoolsusa remain some of the premier Tormek instructional videos.
Many of Jeff's most valuable Tormek insights are in the archives of this forum. I research Jeff's posts often and have never been disappointed.
I had a chance meeting with Jeff last fall. I was pleased to finally meet him. Jeff was gracious, even though, as a Tormek presenter and the second forum moderator (based on Jeff's recommendation), I felt like a usurper. His departure from the Tormek community is a great loss.
Ken
I hadn't realized that. I did get my T-7 from Jeff a few years back, but really haven't needed anything since then.
I had noticed that he hasn't posted in a while.
What do you mean, that you were a Tormek presenter?
Brett
A presenter is another word for demonstrator, the person who works the booth at woodworking shows. I worked a weekend show for Affinity Tool, the US importer for Tormek, last fall.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on April 16, 2016, 03:34:37 AM
I am puzzled about grading the grinding wheel for sharpening knives. Two experiened Tormek users I respect seem to disagree. My original source, Jeff Farris, recommends generally using the grinding wheel graded fine for most knife sharpening. This eliminates the hassle of regrading the wheel.
I have never been able to follow this advice with any success for two reasons. Most of the time when I sharpen a knife it's dull before I start, and a finely-graded grindstone will not remove enough material to raise a burr. Plus, a finely-graded grindstone quickly clogs up on me, and I have to grade it coarse to unclog it before I can grade it fine and continue.
Also, Steve recommends grinding away from the edge, but in the videos where I've seen Jeff sharpen knives he's grinding towards the edge. That may have something to do with why their advice is different.
Hi,
I sharpen knifes often, on every demo, at home, for friends etc. After a while you also learn to use more or less pressure and the grid on the stone is not a big concern.
With more expensive knifes or when sharpening for someone I know that are a very picky person I use the stonegrader and polish the stone to get a finer surface.
But by using the honingwheel I always get a razor sharp edge and I can use more time on it to polish the edge line if necessary.
So its not only the grid on the stone that's important but also to learn the sound of the stone, how it removes material and also the pressure you use. If the stone is coarse, use as light pressure you can the last 8-10 strokes to get a finer finish without using the stonegrader.
Stig
Interesting, Stig.
Your post affirms once more my belief in the versatility of the Tormek. The Toemek is capable of allowing us repeatable basic results when desired, in eith new or busy skilled hands. It is also capable of allowing the more experienced, adventurous sharpener subtle changes in technique as he chooses for specific situations.
There is much to learned through focused experience.
Ken
Quote from: Stickan on May 03, 2016, 08:11:48 AM
Hi,
I sharpen knifes often, on every demo, at home, for friends etc. After a while you also learn to use more or less pressure and the grid on the stone is not a big concern.
With more expensive knifes or when sharpening for someone I know that are a very picky person I use the stonegrader and polish the stone to get a finer surface.
But by using the honingwheel I always get a razor sharp edge and I can use more time on it to polish the edge line if necessary.
So its not only the grid on the stone that's important but also to learn the sound of the stone, how it removes material and also the pressure you use. If the stone is coarse, use as light pressure you can the last 8-10 strokes to get a finer finish without using the stonegrader.
Stig
Stig, thank you for sharing your experience. It is definitely interesting food for our thought. :)
I would like to ask you if you use the universal support by polishing the edge on the honing wheel?
Associated question is whether by polishing of longer knives you remove the grinding stone?
Jan
Jan,
When i first started at Tormek i used the jigs while honing. These days I do the honing freehand but with the jig still attached to the blade so if I see that I need to remove more steel, I still have the right adjustments and can sharpen more without re-mounting the knife. It also gives me better balance/control while honing.
You will not need to remove the stone with longer knifes, just turn the knife a little aside so you don't touch the stone. Actually the burr get removed a bit faster doing this than keeping the blade signed over the honing wheel. Freehand honing demands a little practice but its very well described in the handbook.
It's important to keep the knife/tool horizontal on top of the honing wheel and pull it slowly towards you until you see the burr starts to move at the edge. Then you know you are at the right place and can start to hone the edge using the burr as a guide.
Stig
Stig,
An interesting option. We Tormekers are surely a versatile group with a versatile tool.
Ken
Stig,
thank you for your prompt response and for a detailed description how you do it. It is inspiring for me! :)
So far I have pushed the knife jig firmly on universal support bar, but have recognized that this is not the proper solution for longer knives, because I lost full control over the burr removal at some parts of the edge.
Regards
Jan
Having the knife edge angled to the leather to avoid the grinding wheel accidentally puts you into the same mode as when a turner does what's called a "sheer cut". This is where the edge is at roughly 45 degrees to the fibres and cuts very cleanly with a sheering action. The fact there is only a small amount of the edge in contact with the abrasive (in one location) is what gives a better finish whereas if the blade is flat on, a greater surface area is in contact and it's more difficult to control.
Rob, thank you for the supporting remark. Your point is well-taken. So far I was rather avoiding the angled positioning of the knife edge to the honing wheel, but now will add it on my repertoire. :)
Jan
Well done, Rob. Good point.
Ken
Quote from: Stickan on May 04, 2016, 04:59:45 PM
Jan,
When i first started at Tormek i used the jigs while honing. These days I do the honing freehand but with the jig still attached to the blade so if I see that I need to remove more steel, I still have the right adjustments and can sharpen more without re-mounting the knife. It also gives me better balance/control while honing.
You will not need to remove the stone with longer knifes, just turn the knife a little aside so you don't touch the stone. Actually the burr get removed a bit faster doing this than keeping the blade signed over the honing wheel. Freehand honing demands a little practice but its very well described in the handbook.
It's important to keep the knife/tool horizontal on top of the honing wheel and pull it slowly towards you until you see the burr starts to move at the edge. Then you know you are at the right place and can start to hone the edge using the burr as a guide.
Stig
I'll have to re-read the book. I don't remember it being that clear in the book, but I can picture this explanation very well.
Thanks for the info.
Brett
Stig,
I will try your techniqueduring my next sharpening session.
Ken
Quote from: Stickan on May 04, 2016, 04:59:45 PM
It's important to keep the knife/tool horizontal on top of the honing wheel and pull it slowly towards you until you see the burr starts to move at the edge. Then you know you are at the right place and can start to hone the edge using the burr as a guide.
You have far keener vision that me, Stig. I have trouble enough seeing a burr, let alone seeing one move. I usually wipe a rag across the edge then examine with a magnifier and light, looking for the presence of snagged threads to be sure I have a burr that's continuous along the entire length of the edge.
Herman,
Sounds like I have the eyes of superman :-)
Its not the burr itself I see, its the compound on the burr that shows. So when I am at the edge the burr catches more compound and shows the burr at the edge.
While honing you can anctually see that the burr/compound loosen and after a few more turns on the honingwheel the edge is pefectly sharp.
I probably use more honingcompound than the common user and I guess it's after all the demos I am doing. I show the hole process from shaping, sharpening, honing and papercutting/endgrain for every interested.
In the handbook we write that one application of compound last for 5-10 tools. This is correct but I use as little as possible every time which works good also.
I think we need to get this on film, hope my explination is understandible.
Brett,
There is some pictures about freehand grinding in the handbook in the chapter "Honing and Polishing"
Best,
Stig
Very informative post, Stig.
I had not thought of looking for the compound clinging to the burr. I totally agree that this would benefit from having a video.
Ken