Hi All,
Based on the latest posts regarding this subject, I was thinking this improvised setting may help people who want to sharpen free hand small blade knives.
The link below should take you to the site that contains three pictures. If you are not able to see the pictures please let me know. As you see the idea is very simple and eassy to put in practice. You will need though either a Tormek tool rest (SVD 110 I believe) or the base of the scissors jig, I believe that could be used in the same way. The small wooden extension is something that I had handy and I could play with but you can use anything that would be stiff enough to do the same. I guess a piece of aluminum 5052 3/16 thick would be just perfect, but any hard wood would do it. The first 2 pictures show the extension mounted on the tool res and the third one is not that important but people may be interested in, the bevel I've cut. The only measuring device needed is the eye, the bevel on the back of the extension should be just enough to allow you to get as close as possible to the stone.
The way to use it is first you mount the tool rest and set the angle (15- 20 or whatever you want) in regards to the tool rest. Then you extend out the universal support just enough to give you clearance and base for the new extension and for your hands while sharpening. You then use any small clamp to attach the extension. Needless to say that the piece of wood need to be milled with parallel faces if you expect some precise angle setting.
I believe any similar ideas would work just fine. An important thing is that the thickness of the wood will influence the bevel angle as the initial measurement is made in report to the tool rest so you would have to account for that or if you want you can just set the angle against the extension itself. I believe you could use the same principle to grind against the edge if you prefer, when is about free hand I prefer grinding away from the stone, it is safer and I have more control as the sharpening process is less aggressive. To have enough clearance I wouldn't make the extension wider than the stone.
http://cid-bc168f3568163031.photos.live.com/play.aspx/Tormek%20-%20small%20blade%20rest?Bsrc=EMSHOO&Bpub=SN.Notifications (http://cid-bc168f3568163031.photos.live.com/play.aspx/Tormek%20-%20small%20blade%20rest?Bsrc=EMSHOO&Bpub=SN.Notifications)
Note: The measurement of the angle should be done only with the extension mounted. Any movement of the universal support after that would lead to a different angle.
Thanks,
Ionut
Well done (and photographed), Ionut.
Ken
I love the way you used the clamps from your Veritas Power Tool Guide straight edge to hold the Small knife blade rest to the tool rest.
Ingenuity!
Nice job Ionut
Looks good. Thanks for the photos.
Gary
Thanks Guys,
Yes Dan, those small clamps are really handy sometimes I use them a lot for small jobs like this, Veritas also makes a larger version (2" opening I think) of them and they are available separately.
Ionut
Yes I have the same Tool Guide but cant remember what size of clamp, I will look & try them out for things like you have.
I will need to get the Tool Rest SVD-110 then try out your invention.
Quit clever Ionut
Perhaps Tormek could take this Idea & come up with a new jig.
Dan
Hi Dan,
Invention is a too fancy word and too much for a simple improvisation. We should stay with improvisation.
The topic was pretty hot lately and even though I don't do much knife sharpening I thought it may be useful for people to try it before having anybody starting to cut in the SVD -110 as I suggested in an earlier post and as the manual suggest as well. It seems to be an extreme solution
Few more clarifications though to cut the confusion, if anybody tries to implement this the measuring of the bevel angle should happen always with the extension mounted in a similar way it would happen if only the SVD 110 would be used, also if wood is used for the extension it should be properly coated with varnish, polyurethane ort anything that would provide enough water protection.
The straight edge comes with 1" small clamps and the site lists 2" opening clamps as options, pretty pricy though but the clamps and very useful as they are easy to setup with one hand and provide enough clamping strength. One thing though they don't require much force to build up enough clamping pressure.
Ionut
I realize this is an old post, but found it very interesting and thought it related well to more recent posts about free hand sharpening. I personally question my steadiness to be able to hold a consistent angle without a support of some kind.
Elden
Elden,
Thanks for bringing this fine thread back to life. I do miss Ionut's posts on the forum. He was very passionate about woodworking and very innovative. He was a demonstrator for a large Tormek dealer in western Canada. I hope he has just moved on to other interests and is in good health.
Ken
I'm missing something. The wooden platform allows you to hold the knife at a controlled angle while sharpening right? To overcome the shortcomings of hand held right?
So why not just use the short knife jig?
Surely the only weakness (aside of the non centre small issue) was the issue related to how you hand crank the curve at the tip of the blade without flaring out the bevel. Jeff notes in his demo videos of the technique where you pull up rather than following the radius of the jig which is clearly a common mistake. I'm failing to see how this wooden jig would be any different in controlling that curved tip bit than Tormeks production jig?
Wouldn't you still need to hand crank the knife round the curve of the tip on this jig just as you do on Tormek's? It's entirely possible the answer is that I'm as thick as a whale omelette which as I say is why I started with am I missing something
Byoomholay,
This thread was one of several in that time period regarding sharpening very small knife blades. As I recall, the original poster wanted to be able to sharpen very small knife blades, like the small blade in a pocket knife (or pen knife, to be more correct). These blades are too small to be sharpened by the standard Tormek knife jig.
Ionut and I both suggested several ideas for jigs for these very small blades. Ionut actually made and photographed a prototype.
My last idea was to cut a flat jig in half. That would allow close contact from both sides of the wheel. (I still have a spare jig which I have not yet bisected.)
A search on small knife blade sharpening should bring up the other threads.
Sadly, these ideas seem to have been forgotten.
Ken
Quote from: Ken S on January 26, 2013, 11:12:33 PM
Byoomholay,
Sadly, these ideas seem to have been forgotten.
Ken
Not a chance! I have been thinking about this for a while. I have a the 110 tool rest on order (and a new motor...) And will be experimenting ASAP. As far as i can see this approach with resolve the 'tip bevel issue' as the knife edge only ever sees one angle. The only problem i see with grinding away is the possibility of the stone lifting the knife off the rest, maybe resolved with magnets..? We shall see..!
That explains it then Ken. Many thanks for the missing piece :-)
Rob
Rob, You're welcome.
Justin, please keep us posted with your experiments.
I tried to bring up the thread conversations Ionut and I had regarding making small knife jigs. The search option on this forum brought up only the latest post. (frustrating!) Anyway, if you click on Ionut or me and "see posts", you can find them. (not easily, but they are there). I would suggest starting with Ionut first. That's not being modest; he has fifteen pages of posts. My forty one pages are much more time consuming.
In hindsight, I think either the bisected 110 jig or the homemade wooden one would do the job with small knives. The reason for cutting the 110 jig in half is to be able to get close from either side (with double bevel knives). No need if you sharpen the knife with a bevel on only one side as recommended by Leonard Lee.
Definitely use the wheel graded fine. Your small knife can easily become a micro knife. I would use the wheel revolving away from the edge and very gently. In fact, for anyone sharpening a lot of pocket knives, the Tormek could be set up with the knife jig in the vertical position and the small knife jig, be it all of half of the 110 or homemade, setup with a second USB in the horizontal position. (Use the leather honing wheel freehand.)
Your sharpening library should include Ron Hock's book as well as Leonard Lee's. Somewhat off topic, I have found Leonard Lee's sharpening DVD a delight. The information is solid and well presented. The humor is subtle. It is also a fascinating glimpse of an honest man who has done much for the tool buying community. (available at leevalley.com)
If the full truth is to be told, I would usually sharpen the occasional small knife with a water or oil stone. If I were to set up at a fair, I would opt for the Tormek.
Ken
Interesting Ken
Thanks for the input.
Rob
I've just ordered Leonard Lee's book. It looks like the definitive work on the subject from the excerpts I read. Specifically by that I mean it backs up its assertions with objective fact gained through either accurate measurement or experimentation in laboratory conditions.
In short the "truth"
I have to say the general public frequently have to wade through a veritable quagmire of biased sales messaging and cleverly thought through marketing before they uncover the realities behind tools etc. I've always appreciated the objectivity delivered by the more scientific approach this book appears to take. I'll look forward to reading it and thanks for the steer
If anyone is interested in adjusting the attitude of the person standing behind the tool I recommend you read Robert Pirsig's masterpiece: Zen & the art of motorcycle maintenance
Thanks again Ken
Rob
I am sorry, I do not see the use of this on a small blade knife. While I applaud your efforts at helping and am sure this serves a purpose for you and others I do not see its utility on a small knife blade. I have a little pen knife that this set up could in no way be used to grind the edge. The device illustrated has a short edge but a long body. You can get that long body mounted on the jig shown but not a blade that is less than 1/2 inch wide and that is what I thought we were talking about. What am I missing? thanx
You would set the blade of your pen knife on top of the long body shown in the photo.
Personally I am kicking this rest idea around even for larger knives as well, as I am not satisfied with what is happening out on the tip of the knife. Once I get the camera connected to the computer, I plan to post what is happening, probably in a new post.
Suffice it now to say, the tip end is contacting wheel at a point in a different spot located almost the distance of the width of the knife blade, up the wheel towards the universal support bar. On a 1/2" wide knife that is not too bad, but if the knife is 1" to 1 1/2" wide, that is more variation than is permissible to me. That is the reason that I said in another post, "I parked the Tormek and used my old guided hand sharpening system."
Since then I have set up a knife and played around with it while the Tormek is shut off, trying different things.
TTFN
Elden
Quote from: kb0rvo on January 30, 2013, 12:11:33 AM...
Suffice it now to say, the tip end is contacting wheel at a point in a different spot located almost the distance of the width of the knife blade, up the wheel towards the universal support bar.
Exactly what it is supposed to do. As the distance between the stop and the blade edge decreases, the position on the stone moves to maintain the same bevel angle. If it stays at the same point on the grindstone, the angle will increase as the blade width decreases.
Quote from: kb0rvo on January 30, 2013, 12:11:33 AM
Personally I am kicking this rest idea around even for larger knives as well, as I am not satisfied with what is happening out on the tip of the knife
"I parked the Tormek and used my old guided hand sharpening system."
Since then I have set up a knife and played around with it while the Tormek is shut off, trying different things.
TTFN
Elden
Basically the same situation as me! I have found though that with the way the Tormek is designed it is very hard find a solution i'm happy with. With the tool rest it's not possible to get in close and have the correct angle, i always end up coming round to Ionut's solution. I've never liked using add-ons or extensions as it feels less secure, but we shall see.